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Do you buy organic?

pseudobrit said:
It's easy to look at things from a non-argicultural viewpoint. Farmers operate on razor-thin margins, even in areas of the world where food is abundant. Each of them will feed thousands of us. They cannot afford to lose a harvest to pests in the interest of keeping their fields "natural."

The whole idea of "natural farming" is absurd because the whole idea of farming is unnatural. It's an entirely artificial human technology. Foraging is natural.
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Exactly, and organic foods cost more because of this. If anyone were really interested in reducing the cost of food, they would make the grow-ship-package-ship-sell process a little more efficient. Supermarkets throw out a lot of food. Here's a link that passively mentions how much food is wasted due to industry in the UK each year. 17 million tonnes isn't exactly trivial.

I'd love it if the entire planet rolled back ten thousand years and went back to foraging, but that's far from feasible today. Foraging actually gives a chance of survival to other creatures on Earth, but a popupation of six billion is way too much to support with such opportunistic methods. The human population would have to be decimated before that idea could even get off the ground.

pseudobrit said:
There's plenty of landfill space and (as I've pointed out) the energy to sift through someone's "special garbage" can (aka recycling bin) is at least as wasteful and inefficient as sifting through it in a landfill 30 years from now.
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I disagree. For example, which is more efficient?

1) Pile all your garbage in one corner of the room and sort through it all once it builds up to the ceiling.
2) Catagorise your waste at it is made and either reuse it or place it in the appropriate corner.

Either way, you're going to end up catagorising at some point. The difference is whether or not you have to sort through a mountain of garbage.

pseudobrit said:
Maybe for the same reason I haven't moved into an old folks' home. I mean, someday I'll be old and might require that type of housing arrangement, so I may well get used to it today, right? Everything has its time. The nation learned how to recycle in less than 20 years. It can be scaled back until we need to start recycling more material and relearned quickly.
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Recycling and preparing for the future is more analogous to getting a pension or RRSP than moving into a retirement home decades early.

pseudobrit said:
I'm not afraid of unorthodox solutions. I despise the charlatans who prey upon the gaps in science and the fears of the uninformed and trusting public to give them false hope (at best) defraud them of their money, and risk their lives or kill them (at worst) for profit.
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You seem bitter. Is there a story behind this? If so, I'd love for you to share it with us!

The vast majority of alternative medicine does nothing at all except make people feel better about themselves. But in the case of someone who has a terminal illness, wouldn't you place at least some value on their mental well-being for the remainder of their time on Earth?

Rather than declare war on anything different, why not try to take the best parts of it and incorporate it into a much more beautiful and effective tapestry?

If you're so much against "charlatans" taking people's money, perhaps you should have a look at the track record of scientifically-backed pharmaceutical companies. Here's some satire of the whole situation.

pseudobrit said:
"Stress" is something con men love. Find a way to quantify it and they'll have to find another bogeyman to claim they cure. I wonder whatever happened to women experiencing "hysteria"? Or radium water?

Here's why I hate massage therapy (in practice):

...

The fish stinks from the head.

http://www.quackwatch.org/
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I sincerely hope that you're not trying to downplay the role of stress in everyday life. If you've never experienced it, then I both envy you and feel sorry for you at the same time. If you want scientific backing, please either read the links I've already given you, do some of your own research, or follow this link.

There are quite a few studies out there with results revealing the multifaceted nature of stress. You haven't yet provided any useful information that works to support your position on stress.

That quackwatch.org site you linked has many detailed documents about stress, massage therapy, and the like, but none that I have found have reached any definite conclusions. They all end with statements like "possible anticancer effects of these interventions in other patients have not been confirmed". The only conclusions they reach are conclusions that the studies are inconclusive! :rolleyes:

Just to clarify what you actually think, do you believe that stress exists? Do you think stress can have an impact on day-to-day life?
 
Wow, 3 year old thread revival. Not too shabby.

We buy organic but it's not high on the list of priorities when shopping. Our eggs are bought directly from a farm up the road and they're all oragnic, freerange, laid during a full moon, bless by the pope and all that. And they're brilliant.
 
Organic and Fresh conventional produce taste exactly the same, there is no nutritional difference, I don't see why I would waste my money.

The problem is organic stores get fresh produce from local organic farms and places like walmart get crap shipped from god knows where, i have never seen fresh stuff at walmart.
 
I sometimes buy organic cereal or eggs or even fresh produce sometimes, but not all the time. I do however buy organic hair treatment (shampoo, conditioner, hairspray etc) for my hair... and it's never looked so good before. :cool:
 
Zombie Acorn said:
Organic and Fresh conventional produce taste exactly the same, there is no nutritional difference, I don't see why I would waste my money.
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When I consider the potential residue from pesticides, herbicides, artificial hormones, and non-therapeutic antibiotics I wonder if maybe that's where some of these aggressive cancers and autistic debilitations are coming from. But, of course we'll probably never know because the only tests I ever hear about are paid for by folks who have a financial interest in the outcome. Which risks the chance that they'll simply release the one-off test that shows no difference and leave the rest of the testing data under wraps. You know, kind of like how the tobacco companies did all those decades ago. Once you realize that tobacco companies aren't really all that different from any other major agribusiness conglomerate you begin to see what we're up against.
 
Organic cola is the bees knees!

Well, this one brand in New Zealand is pretty tasty because they add a bit of honey to the cola and it tastes pretty unique.

I'll gladly take it over Coca Cola/Pepsi any day.
 
Just at Whole Foods and Trader Joe's really. Don't go out of my way otherwise, like visiting farmers markets or anything, or buying organic at regular supermarkets.
 
daxomni said:
When I consider the potential residue from pesticides, herbicides, artificial hormones, and non-therapeutic antibiotics I wonder if maybe that's where some of these aggressive cancers and autistic debilitations are coming from. But, of course we'll probably never know because the only tests I ever hear about are paid for by folks who have a financial interest in the outcome. Which risks the chance that they'll simply release the one-off test that shows no difference and leave the rest of the testing data under wraps. You know, kind of like how the tobacco companies did all those decades ago. Once you realize that tobacco companies aren't really all that different from any other major agribusiness conglomerate you begin to see what we're up against.
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Now that's science!
 
There's so much misinformation going around in this thread, and I don't have time to discuss all of it...

Demon Hunter said:
I try to buy organic when I can. I think it's easily worth the increase in price. MSG scares me! My favorite is probably Annie's Homegrown pasta. Yum.

I'm a conservative on almost all the issues, except organic food! *hops on the hippie bandwagon*
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While I disagree with your fear of MSG, I think it's more important to point out that there are a whole lots of non-organic foods that are MSG free. It appears you're trying to tie the two together, when they really have nothing to do with eachother.



mactastic said:
I try to, mostly because organic produce seems to be much better looking and tasting than conventional. Not sure if it's entirely because of a lack of synthetic chemicals, or just because the (generally) smaller organic farms handle things less or better than the big packers...
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It's very possible that organic foods are better looking and tasting in your area, but you should realize that this has nothing to do with the fact that it is 'organic'. It has to do with the distance traveled to your store, who grew it, their transportation methods, growth methods, etc. Tasting is another thing, it's possible that your organic food tastes better, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it is organic. If the crops are genetically identical and other variables have been eliminated NO ONE could tell a flavor difference between organic and non-organic.



livingfortoday said:
I do whenever I can. It's not as cheap, obviously, but I feel the health benefits and the environmental benefits are worth a small sacrifice on my part.
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These environmental benefits you are speaking of... have you balanced in the lower yield of these organic fields which indirectly results in more forests being cut down to make room for more agricultural land? Don't you feel the least bit remorseful that you're being inefficient with the land, inefficient with man-power, etc.? Non-organic farming (modern farming) is responsible for gigantic increases in yield outputs (my grandpa for example used to get 57 bushels per acre on his corn farm, and now the same land gets 200) The technologies that allow us to do this, with less pesticides and less herbicides than were used by my grandpa are GMO crops. Crops that have been genetically modified to produce more with less. And no, they are not 'organic'.



Applespider said:
I don't buy organic for those 'hippy' reasons either. I buy it because I like to know that my beef wasn't fed with pellets made from sheep's brains and that my eggs didn't come from chickens huddled 5 to a foot wide cage and that my chicken breasts haven't been injected with water/fat mix to make them look pinker/plumper. And food with the organic mark, at least in the UK, has gone through some pretty stringent Soil Association benchmarks. Where I can get a similar provenance from non-organic, I'll buy that and I'll pay more to do so.

I'm not against farming technology but I'd say I was against intensive farming where the farmers are being screwed so much by the distributors/stores that they have to cut corners...
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Beef in America at least isn't fed with pellets made from sheep's brains. Get your facts right. This is what really bothers me, no one takes the time to actually ask farmers how they raise products, they just get their information from the lunatic fringe activists online and expect that their information is correct with no evidence whatsoever.



pseudobrit said:
Organic foods are like recycling, acupuncture and hybrids.

It's just stuff that costs people assloads of money to feel good about themselves for doing absolutely nothing good for the world. Whatever you do, don't stop consuming, don't conserve, just buy differently (and more expensively) and everything will be okay.

The crackpots pushing this stuff on the hard sell have an agenda to eliminate modern farming technology -- technology that has saved many billions of human beings from hunger and starvation over the past 50 years.

They're the cruel elitist nutters who give real environmental and health concerns (with real science behind them) a bad name.
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+1 Holy crap, I agree with pseudobrit!
 
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There's no benefit to buying the large majority of organic foods or products (or many fairtrade products, for that matter). Some of it IS beneficial, but just remember that just because a chemical was sprayed onto it, does not mean it's dangerous, or even still there. Chemicals break down. They have a half-life too, and when it's broken down, it's not bad for you, just like how I can't call a pile of broken glass pieces a 'cup' just because it used ti be a cup before I dropped it,



(it's late, and that's the best I can come up with :p)
 
i have a tough time buying organic from th super market.
Especially when two of the exact same product are side by side and the only thing different is a sticker that says organic and it costs more money.
Who's to say that place in Peru is applying the regular sticker on half of the crop and organic on the other half
 
Just because something is labeled organic doesn't make it true there is very little regulation in this part of the food industry certifying that the products are what they state. And just because something may actually be organically grown or fed does not necessarily mean it will be healthier for you buying organic milk butter and eggs doesn't change the cholesterol and fat contents of the products buying a bag of organic potato chips having the same starch content and flavored with sea salt doesn't decrease the chances of developing diabetes or decreasing heart disease. Probably the only real major benefit of organic packaged foods is higher fiber content from less processing but beyond that you'd be just as healthy by eating regular foods in moderation.

I remember one of my friends always complained about his diet he couldn't figure out what he was doing wrong--he even switched to organic foods nothing changed after years of this he was still a fat ass, still having health issues, it was nothing to do with the food it was just him and his lifestyle. If he had considered smaller portions and exercised he wouldn't have had so many health problems. The meatless veggie patties are a big scam too there's more preservatives in those Boca Burgers and that Morning Star fakin bacon than in a real animal that's been fed hormones yet they sell them in the freezer the "Natural foods" sections at the grocery stores. A lot of those fake Chicken patties use real chicken (eggs or just the egg white is the main ingeredient), not all tofu is organic much of it is genetically modified soy that is processed into the curd (tofu deep fried in peanut oil is fantastic no matter where you get it though) and even going to a farmers market is no guarantee that you'll get organic foods a lot of those booths set up are resellers who probably don't own a farm but buy directly from a growers co-op in the region
 
I can't believe I missed this thread! I'm probably the only Vegan on this forum...

I usually always buy organic, and usually always buy from the local farmers market. :D

EDIT: Okay, I read a bit of the forum... I don't always buy organic because it's labeled... I always check the practices and whatnot's of the company. I also look for the fair trade sticker.
 
MasterDev said:
I can't believe I missed this thread! I'm probably the only Vegan on this forum...

I usually always buy organic, and usually always buy from the local farmers market. :D

EDIT: Okay, I read a bit of the forum... I don't always buy organic because it's labeled... I always check the practices and whatnot's of the company. I also look for the fair trade sticker.
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It is quite possible to be vegan without doing the organic thing, I've known a number of people who have.
 
I grow my own food, in a vegetable garden. That's as organic as you can get I suppose. I'm not able to keep chickens, so when I buy eggs I always get 'free range'. They taste better in my opinion.

I don't eat meat, so that's not an issue.
 
AppleMatt said:
Wednesday, 29 July 2009
Organic 'has no health benefits'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8174482.stm

Discuss.
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Yeah, this BBC article refers to a meta-analysis. I wish the article were clear on that. There's a lot of issues that come with a meta-analysis. The first thing to look at is the granularity of the information.

The irony here is that the first three related articles point to the benefits of organic.
 
Just to be clear; I was playing the devils advocate above ;)

That said, I personally believe people allow themselves to get caught up in a wide wooly picture with organic. They're not buying it solely due to no pesticides and wax, but also because it's; less food miles, or in season, or supports local farmers, or doesn't damage the land as much etc. etc. So a tighter definition of what someone means when they say they support organic would be good. Personally? I like to see 'responsible practice'.

An example; organic lettuce grown in India. By buying 'organic' you're actually exporting potable water from a developing nation (shame on you). You're also using a % of their land which can support food for your food. You're contributing to a massive carbon footprint in flying the lettuce over etc. etc.

Lets not forget modern mass-farming techniques have saved millions of lives and most current organic setups aren't sustainable for the population at large. My ideal would be a truly massive hydoponics center in the UK growing solely out of season foods (because, regardless of impact, people will always want them). I believe they set up a massive one on the South coast, but I'm not sure what grows there.

If you don't know what hydroponics is, look it up and build your own system. It costs next to nothing and you can be eating delicious (and out of season) foods, organic as they come right in your kitchen. That's what I do - I've just planted some cherry tomatoes and chilli peppers which should be ready for Christmas.

AppleMatt
 
AppleMatt said:
If you don't know what hydroponics is, look it up and build your own system. It costs next to nothing and you can be eating delicious (and out of season) foods, organic as they come right in your kitchen. That's what I do - I've just planted some cherry tomatoes and chilli peppers which should be ready for Christmas.

AppleMatt
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I had a couple friends who had that set up in their basement--of course it wasn't for tomatoes and peppers their profit margin was huge :cool:
 
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