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I'm still on Tiger, so can't offer an opinion on Leopard, but wondering what camp of thought people fall into;

A) All the stuff wrong with Leopard will get ironed out in 10.5.4 or whenever.

or

B) All the stuff wrong with Leopard is so fundamental that we are stuck with it until 10.6.
 
It has been a positive experience for me - Spotlight actually works in Leopard, for a change! There are a couple of bugs, plus a few annoyances, such as the moronic stacks and transparent menu bar, but nothing major.
 
Leopard on iBook G4 1.0GHz / 640MB...

Finally installed Leopard on my 4-year-old iBook today. Clean install! Installation was painless, no issues at all. I must say, however, that it does seem somewhat slower than Tiger on some common tasks. Most notably, running the pointer over the dock icons -- on Tiger they magnified smoothly, on Leopard they're a little clunky. Still quite usable, but a little clunky. But I'm sure the other benefits of Leopard will far outweigh this.
 
I'm still on Tiger, so can't offer an opinion on Leopard, but wondering what camp of thought people fall into;

A) All the stuff wrong with Leopard will get ironed out in 10.5.4 or whenever.

or

B) All the stuff wrong with Leopard is so fundamental that we are stuck with it until 10.6.

I think there must be an option somewhere in there that there are bugs that will get fixed in future updates, but there are some things in Leopard that just aren't going to get "fixed" (changed is a better word, like the curvature on Stacks)...but that aren't enough for us to wait past an entire version of the OS.
 
I think Leopard is the best OS I ever used. It is better than any Microsoft OS. Better than XP and Vista. I used 10.3 for my old G5 iMac, but I never used 10.4, so I can't comment on 10.4, but 10.5 is definitely way better than 10.3. So I have no regrets. I am very happy with 10.5. I hope Apple can do better.
 
I posted a right rant on the first impressions thread the other day about my Macbook freezing totally under leopard (happening about twice a day at least and needing a hard reset every time) .

I am now cautiously optimistic that I might have found the cause🙂, at least in my case.

ROSETTA 😡

Since I have got shot of Microsoft office 2004 and therefore using all universal or Intel apps my machine has been flawless.

Big Photoshop CS3 projects open, along with MSN messenger, parallels , mail, safari and time machine backups all running at once.

Machine has been rock steady, will post you further updates 😀
 
Why is everybody speaking so highly about Leopard ?

Because it's GREAT. 😀

Same reason people speak highly or lowly of anything, really - they're expressing how they feel about a particular topic or item.

face it, what is this amazing thing you all speak of ? Spaces ? quicklook ? Those two are the only functions that is useable. Time Machine is silly. No way to configure it at all. The new dock is for child and chumps and don´t get me started on Stacks.

The features are great, but another great thing is that it all feels... well... new and powerful. I first got a Mac in September and used Tiger. It was good, but nothing really that awesome. It was awesome but not amazingly awesome. Leopard is the icing on the cake. It just feels GOOD, whereas tiger just doesn't anymore. I don't know if I'm the only one thinking this, but I just feel much happier using Leopard than I did with Tiger. It's more of a joy to use my iMac than before. I actually look forward to it again (After about a month of it just being standard).

The whole atmosphere of the OS is worth upgrading - and it's not something you can get from playing around with it in the stores. You have to adapt to it, and when you do it's phenomenal. People were all "MACS ARE AWESOME" before when they really were only "good" and Windows was terrible, thus making them feel more awesome than they were... but when you get Leopard, it really is awesome. It's indescribable.

It's all just "YAY!" and exciting, which is what Macs are all about - a thrill to use and a productive machine. There are a few bugs you come across but you work around them - most of which are 3rd party anyway. (with fixes in the making).

To tackle your views on the blatant new features, Spaces is GREAT. I upgraded to Leopard thinking "pfft what a stupid feature. I'm never going to use that" and here I am, living like I can't live without them. I currently have 6 spaces. I tried using them at first and didn't like it, then my friend encouraged me to try it again and it's just phenomenal. It's great stuff! My only gripe with spaces is that all your apps can disappear in a space occasionally, such as writing this I changed space to find that Safari had disappeared (I launched a Safari Link from Mail, dragged it into my Safari space and clicked Merge all Windows - they all came back but this isn't possible with every app). Other than that, they're fantastic. Each space feels almost like a different computer.
I read earlier this year that someone thought you should be able to have a different background per space. Personally, with the way it works, I don't think it's necessary.
I love spaces and it's almost purely made the switch worthwhile!

Quicklook is also excellent. I wasn't sure how to use it at first but now I do and it's very useful. It saves you opening that app just to see the file and it also helps you find more information out if you use the icon view in finder. Very useful and I think it's great!

I haven't used Time Machine yet but I'm dying to try it out as soon as I get an external Hard drive. It looks like a great and useful app and core animation just makes it sweeter. It's not targeted at the space saving pro (Maybe they can add more options later on) but the general user who doesn't want to configure settings to get a good back up of their stuff, and really, I think it does it well. Just press a few buttons and it works. Simple. Apple.

The new dock is really nice. I know it's opinion but there are also the options of changing it too (in Terminal) as well as the system icons - Candybar 3, which is only $30 (And lets you mod the dock, too). If you can afford a $1000 Mac and then $100 on Leopard, it's not gonna be too hard to save up and spend $30 on a program to change the colours if you're REALLY that disgusted, is it? You could argue that the OS should support it anyway but if you could, Apple would be putting apps like Candybar out of business, and the general consumer probably doesn't need it.

Stacks, well, I don't use them that much myself but they're a nice feature. It lets you have an interesting way to view files you need or download, or may need later. And the Application stack shows apps you may not want on your dock but may need from time to time. and it's not much more effort to just click "Show in Finder", is it? Or have we become so lazy that we can't move our hands a centimeter or two further than we have to?

And one you haven't mentioned; the transparent Menu bar is there to not only keep OS X better than Window, it makes it more subtle and lets it blend into the background without making you focus on it more than you need to. Yes, it didn't really before but the new menu bar is just an addition. A slight improvement. In my opinion, there is nothing "fugly" about it (Then again, it's just an opinion).

Ask yourself this, what could you NOT use with Tiger that you can with Leopard ? ( except for Spaces and Time Machine )

Core Animation, Quicklook, The Leopard only Apps coming soon, New Features in Mail and other apps, Web Clip Widget, Safari 3 that doesn't crash. 🙂

Those things. And Spaces, but you said I couldn't include that 🙁

With Tiger, everything worked and going from everything to something just because of Spaces and Time Machine is not making any sense at all.

Actually, I've only come across two upgrade problems so far and those have been my Mail accounts not transferring that well (I use my own server email addresses, not an email service like GMail so I don't get tech support or updates to software to make it Leopard compatible, so I had to sort it out myself... and not being a server or email expert, I wasn't too sure on what to do. But I worked it out in the end with help from some kind people) and Adium has a bug that stops some people from connecting to MSN with Leopard, so I downloaded Messenger for Mac while I wait for a patch. There's a terminal based patch to fix it that's been posted on various forums, but I'm not sure what I'm doing in Terminal and don't want to mess up my computer. No biggies. Everything else I use regularly has transfered perfectly and I don't see what the fuss is. You're not going to magically go back to the state you were probably in when you first switched (Spend all your cash on the computer, so no apps to use)

I may have missed out on some points, but for me, this is the case.

I think you're being too pessimistic about it all, haha. It's really not as bad as the good old internet echo tunnel is leading some of us to believe. It's a good buy. Honestly.
 
I think there must be an option somewhere in there that there are bugs that will get fixed in future updates, but there are some things in Leopard that just aren't going to get "fixed" (changed is a better word, like the curvature on Stacks)...but that aren't enough for us to wait past an entire version of the OS.

An interesting point. As an aside, it's far more feasible to "skip" an OS in OS X than it is in Windows, as OS X seems to be updated every two years, while Windows OSes...well, they take a while. I could see myself still using Tiger in '09 when 10.6 debuts (if I still use Macs), without ever having upgraded to 10.5. It really depends (for me) on A.) whether the bugs are ironed out, and B.) whether there's a compelling need (compatibility, security) to update or not. Right now, there's nothing in Leopard I can't do in Tiger (reason B), which is reason enough to stay put. Combine that with reason A (bugs galore!), and it's a no-brainer at the moment. Time will tell if these change enough to win me over in '08.

As a side note: I bought a G3 iBook in November, which I sold in December. It was running 10.3.9, which I upgraded to 10.4.11. The user seemed satisfied enough with the computer, and as you can see, had effectively skipped Tiger altogether, as Leopard was already out. He sold it because he was switching to Windows, interestingly enough, but the point remains that, for what the guy was doing, he didn't need the bells and whistles of Tiger. I could easily see the same situation occurring for me and millions of others, with respect to Tiger, Leopard, and 10.6--particularly with 10.4.11 being the best OS/revision Apple's made yet.
 
Because it's GREAT. 😀

Same reason people speak highly or lowly of anything, really - they're expressing how they feel about a particular topic or item.

I think you're being too pessimistic about it all, haha. It's really not as bad as the good old internet echo tunnel is leading some of us to believe. It's a good buy. Honestly.

Thank you and dito.
 
Don't regret it at all. Had a few problems the first few days but once I got everything ironed out and most the apps I use all got updated I haven't had a problem.
 
Because it's GREAT. 😀


The whole atmosphere of the OS is worth upgrading - and it's not something you can get from playing around with it in the stores. You have to adapt to it, and when you do it's phenomenal. People were all "MACS ARE AWESOME" before when they really were only "good" and Windows was terrible, thus making them feel more awesome than they were... but when you get Leopard, it really is awesome. It's indescribable.

Im glad you are happy with it. Wish I was.
I just have a hard time to feel "The whole atmosphere of the OS" that you say is so great. I suppose it is because of all those changes that makes me not feel "at home" and all the problems is annoying me.

"Never change the winning team"

I just hope it will grow on me 🙂
 
Im glad you are happy with it. Wish I was.
I just have a hard time to feel "The whole atmosphere of the OS" that you say is so great. I suppose it is because of all those changes that makes me not feel "at home" and all the problems is annoying me.

"Never change the winning team"

I just hope it will grow on me 🙂

Wow, the same feeling I have had. It was still OS X, but not the comfy feeling of "I know where everything is and what does what etc" from Tiger (first OS X I used). I am sure it will take a couple of weeks to get used to, I mean, I only upgraded a few days ago. Unfortunately, the wireless problems are driving me up the wall, whereas they were very stable with 10.4.11.

As I have said elsewhere, I am sure that once they release 10.5.2, which will hopefully give us back some stability and new features (such as lists in the dock, hopefully) I'll settle back down again.
 
An interesting point. As an aside, it's far more feasible to "skip" an OS in OS X than it is in Windows, as OS X seems to be updated every two years, while Windows OSes...well, they take a while. I could see myself still using Tiger in '09 when 10.6 debuts (if I still use Macs), without ever having upgraded to 10.5. It really depends (for me) on A.) whether the bugs are ironed out, and B.) whether there's a compelling need (compatibility, security) to update or not. Right now, there's nothing in Leopard I can't do in Tiger (reason B), which is reason enough to stay put. Combine that with reason A (bugs galore!), and it's a no-brainer at the moment. Time will tell if these change enough to win me over in '08.

As a side note: I bought a G3 iBook in November, which I sold in December. It was running 10.3.9, which I upgraded to 10.4.11. The user seemed satisfied enough with the computer, and as you can see, had effectively skipped Tiger altogether, as Leopard was already out. He sold it because he was switching to Windows, interestingly enough, but the point remains that, for what the guy was doing, he didn't need the bells and whistles of Tiger. I could easily see the same situation occurring for me and millions of others, with respect to Tiger, Leopard, and 10.6--particularly with 10.4.11 being the best OS/revision Apple's made yet.

Great post. I'm one of those who is seriously thinking of skipping Leopard and waiting for 10.6 (as to why, see my previous post in this thread). Heck, I'd skip 10.6 if it doesn't have anything compelling for me - Tiger does what I need.

There are a couple of caveats though. First, hardware - I may be compelled to buy a more powerful computer for video editing (FCS2 will not run on my iBook, though FCP 4.5 HD did so beautifully, and I edited a 2+ hour documentary on it). If I do buy a new computer in 2008, it will come with Leopard, and from what I understand, Apple makes it difficult to install Tiger on some new computers. Second, software - there are several 3rd party apps that will be Leopard only, and I really need those, so that's another reason why I may be forced at the point of a gun to downgrade to Leopard.

All in all, if it were possible, I'd love to skip 10.5 and see what 10.6 has in store for us... or if 10.6 is no good, then 10.7... so far, I find Tiger 10.4.11 does all that I need to.
 
No regrets at all here. I'm still hoping that using stacks will become optional though.

I was a bit worried about whether InDesign CS would still be usable for practical purposes but I changed from a G4 to a MBP at the same time and find that it runs at around the same speed as I was used to.
 
An interesting point. As an aside, it's far more feasible to "skip" an OS in OS X than it is in Windows, as OS X seems to be updated every two years, while Windows OSes...well, they take a while. I could see myself still using Tiger in '09 when 10.6 debuts (if I still use Macs), without ever having upgraded to 10.5. It really depends (for me) on A.) whether the bugs are ironed out, and B.) whether there's a compelling need (compatibility, security) to update or not. Right now, there's nothing in Leopard I can't do in Tiger (reason B), which is reason enough to stay put. Combine that with reason A (bugs galore!), and it's a no-brainer at the moment. Time will tell if these change enough to win me over in '08.

As a side note: I bought a G3 iBook in November, which I sold in December. It was running 10.3.9, which I upgraded to 10.4.11. The user seemed satisfied enough with the computer, and as you can see, had effectively skipped Tiger altogether, as Leopard was already out. He sold it because he was switching to Windows, interestingly enough, but the point remains that, for what the guy was doing, he didn't need the bells and whistles of Tiger. I could easily see the same situation occurring for me and millions of others, with respect to Tiger, Leopard, and 10.6--particularly with 10.4.11 being the best OS/revision Apple's made yet.

I agree, based on my current application mix, Leopard is a no go. I see no reason to upgrade and plenty not to.

Cheers,
 
i'm running leopard and vista ultimate via boot camp on my mbp... both flawless... i couldn't even think of going back to tiger and losing spaces/boot camp
 
I'm a recent switcher and an Leopard upgrader. My only regret is that I couldn't wait another three months to buy my new Mac with 10.5 pre-installed, instead of paying for the upgrade.

On the whole, Leopard is a worthwhile upgrade. QuickLook is becoming a subtly valuable tool; I miss it when I'm on my Windows machine. Time Machine is my motivation for buying Leopard and I really appreciate having it in the background. The minor improvements to the Finder -- graceful recovery for volume drops and sort-by Kind in Column View -- are huge to me. Spaces is proving a useful tool. And the Movie listing Widget is great!

What's annoying then about Leopard is how it could have been so much better with minor tweaks; that Apple willingly did damage to its own system.

The Transparent Menu Bar is the poster child for all stupid Leopard Decisions. It's a bad UI design, demonstrating change for change's sake, and performs worse than its predecessor. Following suit are the more transparent menus -- actually harder to use than in Tiger. And the auto-icon nonsense for Stacks -- doesn't anyone at Apple actually use 10.5? How did they not realize in the first 30 seconds of testing that that's really a bad idea and only confuses the user? Stacks itself -- maybe it's a nice feature, but why remove a supporting feature that many people liked and found useful?

Leopard is a good upgrade. But Apple actually made some things worse, which is mind-boggling, and really detracts initially from Leopard's strengths.
 
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