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Do you still buy physical media? (DVD/BR)

  • YES

    Votes: 314 55.0%
  • NO

    Votes: 186 32.6%
  • STREAMING ONLY (Netflix/Prime etc)

    Votes: 71 12.4%

  • Total voters
    571
That LaCie drive is getting seriously decent reviews.
This could result in dvd collection finally being removed from disc format and uploaded.
Think 1 tb should suffice.

Thanks!

Yes it should be decent! There's a large range of the LaCie Porsche design on the Apple Store site!
I find DVDs very weird here in the UK as they are speeded up to 4% to allow 25fps! The few DVDs that I had, I've over the past few years been able to buy iTunes HD versions and it's super bizarre when you play the two side by side - the difference in voices and especially music is insane!

The only one that I can't replace is Notting Hill as the iTunes version has lip sync issues in parts of the film and I noticed it immediately! I hope that Apple request an updated file as it's wrong to sell something like that.

Enjoy :)
 
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I already own 12,000+ songs so why on Earth would I want to rent them from Apple Music?)

One reason for using a music streaming service is to explore and find music that you don't own.

But anything above 1080p is pretty much pointless unless you go to one of those "minority screen sizes" over 100"

4K films typically have HDR. That alone makes they worth it, in addition to any perceived benefits of the 4K resolution.
 
we moved and had to sell-off, recycle, trash items we were not using.
before moving i ripped every thing onto a NAS box

no one wanted the vinyl records, CD and DVD's

Good Will was nice but firm; its junk and needs to be thrown out

i wound up tossing the media itself and recycling the plastic case and paper
 
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we moved and had to sell-off, recycle, trash items we were not using.
before moving i ripped every thing onto a NAS box

no one wanted the vinyl records, CD and DVD's

Good Will was nice but firm; its junk and needs to be thrown out

i would up tossing the media itself and recycling the plastic case and paper

Same here, in 2007 I remember throwing away 3000+ CDs. Since graduating from university, I moved from city to city and these things took up so much space and created lots of dust. They never got used! For me, the dis felt dead way back in 1999 so DVD was a dinosaur by the time that it hit the mainstream.

I've got a lot to thank both iTunes and Vimeo for as it's opened up a lot of scope for finding new material out there for me :)

The old ways of the last century are really horrifying me today. Walking into HMV and seeing thousands of discs in plastic cases with multiple transportation needed in order to bring it to the consumer. Nasty. It's nice to see people aware more about physical wastage etc and environmental awareness. Heck, since graduating with my MSc in Nutrition at the end of last year, i'm now 100% vegan and it feels absolutely fantastic!!!!!!!! Everything is full of vitamins and my training has never been so great :) And I guess, thanks to Apple for educating its customers on renewables, recycling etc etc.
 
One reason for using a music streaming service is to explore and find music that you don't own.

Yeah, I've tried Pandora and other FREE services for that (good old fashioned radio even and in the old days, MTV and VH1), but I can only stand so much new material, especially these days that mainstream rock is pretty much dead (so the studios can push god-awful auto-tune crap).

4K films typically have HDR. That alone makes they worth it, in addition to any perceived benefits of the 4K resolution.

HDR...meh. Worthless, IMO. It doesn't really exist on old films. Adding it is revisionism of the worst kind, IMO. It's also highly inconsistent from TV to TV and on projectors (which you need for a real movie theater experience, IMO) it doesn't really work that well compared to something like a QLED. But even there, I have to actually compare the non-HDR version to see what I was missing or not missing. Without it, who can tell? 2K looks darn good on a QLED or OLED too.... I consider it rather gimmicky at this stage. Too many competing standards above standard HDR too. I'd let it all settle down. Maybe by the time they get to "Must have 16K" it'll be consistent. ;)

Yeah yeah, I don't know WTF I'm talking about. HDR rulez....etc. etc. yada yada yada

All I know is I have a 92" 2K/3D projector and a 4K 55" QLED in another room and frankly, I'd rather watch the projector every time because size trumps everything when it comes to movies (that's also where the 11.1.6 sound system is which doesn't hurt). I'll watch TV on the QLED or even my old Plasma which frankly did pretty well for black levels until OLED came out.

I can convert 4K to 2K without issue....not missing much on a projector, IMO. 20-25% perceived sharper at 9 feet...yeah it's bloody sharp enough, IMO. More colors, HDR that doesn't work well with projectors or needs a mega high-end model to see it. Yeah, I'll pass for now. Let me know when an affordable 90+ inch roll down OLED is available. The perfect black levels on those are worth 10x any gimmicky HDR effects, IMO.

Same here, in 2007 I remember throwing away 3000+ CDs.
...
ands of discs in plastic cases with multiple transportation needed in order to bring it to the consumer. Nasty.

The (already made) plastic discs are nasty so that's why you threw away 3000+ CDs instead of reselling or recycling them??? :rolleyes:

Not to mention they have better sound quality than anything on iTunes....
 
Yeah, I've tried Pandora and other FREE services for that (good old fashioned radio even and in the old days, MTV and VH1), but I can only stand so much new material, especially these days that mainstream rock is pretty much dead (so the studios can push god-awful auto-tune crap).



HDR...meh. Worthless, IMO. It doesn't really exist on old films. Adding it is revisionism of the worst kind, IMO. It's also highly inconsistent from TV to TV and on projectors (which you need for a real movie theater experience, IMO) it doesn't really work that well compared to something like a QLED. But even there, I have to actually compare the non-HDR version to see what I was missing or not missing. Without it, who can tell? 2K looks darn good on a QLED or OLED too.... I consider it rather gimmicky at this stage. Too many competing standards above standard HDR too. I'd let it all settle down. Maybe by the time they get to "Must have 16K" it'll be consistent. ;)

Yeah yeah, I don't know WTF I'm talking about. HDR rulez....etc. etc. yada yada yada

All I know is I have a 92" 2K/3D projector and a 4K 55" QLED in another room and frankly, I'd rather watch the projector every time because size trumps everything when it comes to movies (that's also where the 11.1.6 sound system is which doesn't hurt). I'll watch TV on the QLED or even my old Plasma which frankly did pretty well for black levels until OLED came out.

I can convert 4K to 2K without issue....not missing much on a projector, IMO. 20-25% perceived sharper at 9 feet...yeah it's bloody sharp enough, IMO. More colors, HDR that doesn't work well with projectors or needs a mega high-end model to see it. Yeah, I'll pass for now. Let me know when an affordable 90+ inch roll down OLED is available. The perfect black levels on those are worth 10x any gimmicky HDR effects, IMO.



The (already made) plastic discs are nasty so that's why you threw away 3000+ CDs instead of reselling or recycling them??? :rolleyes:

Not to mention they have better sound quality than anything on iTunes....

I can confirm that they were given away to charity shops.

Sound quality wise a Remastered album that is Mastered for iTunes sounds better to my ears than the original disc.

Each to their own.

Remember, there is a whole fresh, healthy, living world out there outside of your cinema room!
 
If there's no physical release I am not getting it, don't want to rent all my life. also, apart from ownership, there is that strange feeling of accomplishment when you save enought money to buy something extra, and you value it much more.

I mean think about music, while I enjoy apple music, it took away that feeling of waiting an album to release, and buy it. I have so much music now I barely know what to listen to, most of the time i am scrolling trough music ... (this is the culture we have now, all and all right now, I mean we get pissed if we have to wait 2 days for a delivery....)

I might be wierd, but really like physical stuff, also I do not buy this eco firnedly thing about stream, I mean I am sure power and heath generated by streaming is not that eco friendly, servers running, server upgrade (hw whise) and all, are not 0 impact.
 
If there's no physical release I am not getting it, don't want to rent all my life. also, apart from ownership, there is that strange feeling of accomplishment when you save enought money to buy something extra, and you value it much more.

I mean think about music, while I enjoy apple music, it took away that feeling of waiting an album to release, and buy it. I have so much music now I barely know what to listen to, most of the time i am scrolling trough music ... (this is the culture we have now, all and all right now, I mean we get pissed if we have to wait 2 days for a delivery....)

I might be wierd, but really like physical stuff, also I do not buy this eco firnedly thing about stream, I mean I am sure power and heath generated by streaming is not that eco friendly, servers running, server upgrade (hw whise) and all, are not 0 impact.

You bring up a good point. Streaming the same songs over and over across vast distances uses other resources like power and storage. In fact, I've read the associated power usage with the Internet alone is quite scary. In fact, just bit coin mining takes up its own healthy WASTE of power (seeing it's a made up currency with made up nonsense 'mining' whose only TRUE function is to aid criminals in laundering money anyway. How many cyber attacks are bitcoin hostage ones? Those attacks don't work so well when you can trace the money).

I can confirm that they were given away to charity shops.

That's a huge loss of music, giving away 3000+ CDs. It's hard to believe you'd just get rid of them because they're inconvenient in the modern age. I could see someone giving away or selling discs if they dumped the music and no longer "needed" the discs, but that is, of course, quite illegal as 'backups' are supposed to be destroyed when the original property is disposed of (whether sold or given away or thrown out). ;)

Sound quality wise a Remastered album that is Mastered for iTunes sounds better to my ears than the original disc.

That's probably because the primary requirement of "mastered of iTunes" is a certain level of compression/volume so that the songs match other songs mastered for iTunes. Compression generally 'sounds good' to a certain level, especially in a car environment where it's hard to hear quiet passages, but it's also artificial and defeats the entire point of the increased dynamic range of the digital formats starting with the compact disc. Compression started to plague the CD itself in the early 1990s as they started the so-called "loudness wars".

Remember, there is a whole fresh, healthy, living world out there outside of your cinema room!

I usually only watch movies on my days off in the evenings, if that. Just because I have 1200 movies doesn't mean I sit there watching them constantly. They aren't going anywhere.
 
That's probably because the primary requirement of "mastered of iTunes" is a certain level of compression/volume so that the songs match other songs mastered for iTunes.
Is this assumption or known fact?
I am asking because I’d give Apple kudos for requiring anyone wanting to submit a MFI piece to them, is required to submit the master in floating point representation.
So I’d like to think that Apple is still keen on music and cares about the quality.
https://images.apple.com/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/docs/mastered_for_itunes.pdf
 
I have to still buy disks because many of the things I want haven’t been released to streaming or digital purchases. Scourge of wanting older stuff.

Not just older stuff but stuff that isn’t the spoon fed, mainstream junk that these pay to rent services push.
Also, I’ve said before, your local library is a great place to get music, domestic and foreign movies, and audio books from.
 
Is this assumption or known fact?
I am asking because I’d give Apple kudos for requiring anyone wanting to submit a MFI piece to them, is required to submit the master in floating point representation.
So I’d like to think that Apple is still keen on music and cares about the quality.
https://images.apple.com/itunes/mastered-for-itunes/docs/mastered_for_itunes.pdf

More of an observation about newer iTunes sound quality that's been "mastered for iTunes" (i.e. they tend to be loud, which more often than not means compression). I wouldn't know about submitting them since I'm not part of a major studio and CD Baby handled my own album (no option there for "mastered for iTunes" that I could see at the time; they just wanted 16-bit WAV file tracks.
 
HDR that doesn't work well with projectors or needs a mega high-end model to see it.

size trumps everything

For me visual quality trumps everything, and that as yet doesn't happen with large projection screens. I would rather watch a movie I don't like that has stunning video (like Roma), than one I love which has poor video and audio quality.

HDR...meh. Worthless,

Yes, if you don't have the right viewing platform it probably isn't. But if you do have a great platform it is absolutely spectacular, particularly on new releases.
 
we had 8+ moving boxes of CD's and DVD's
possibly more than 3,000 titles

NO ONE WANTED THE STUFF
at some point you have got to let go
we should have been buying google stock

I totally agree. Material things can get in the way of life, forward travel and thinking. Having a huge box filled with old CDs in my house was simply insane to me. The secret to successful travelling is to travel light and i'm that way with life back at home in any city.
Music that I wanted, I ripped into iTunes and the rest was discarded.
 
For me visual quality trumps everything, and that as yet doesn't happen with large projection screens. I would rather watch a movie I don't like that has stunning video (like Roma), than one I love which has poor video and audio quality.

Yes, if you don't have the right viewing platform it probably isn't. But if you do have a great platform it is absolutely spectacular, particularly on new releases.

Yeah, the Epson 3100 isn't OLED, but it's FAR from what I'd call "poor video" (black levels in dark scenes are the only thing I'd give to the QLED and nothing beats the QLED at HDR so I still have to differ on it being "absolutely spectacular". No, great black levels and contrast is spectacular. HDR is just a refinement. And watching a movie on a 55" screen is television. It's not a movie theater. It's just NOT, no matter how good the video quality is. It's like comparing watching a movie on a phone to a TV. It's that big of a difference (let alone a 150" or 250" screen). HDR? Even on a QLED that has some very high NITS...MEH. The contrast/blacks are more important, IMO and watching people pick pick pick on the Blu-ray forums about every little shadow detail on every single HDR release.... Are they watching the MOVIE or doing a lab analysis on the picture? Yeah, it's hard to watch a VHS quality movie on a large screen. No, 4K isn't that much better than 2K for most movies, IMO even with HDR. Sharp resolution is important. Having it pitch black on one side of the screen and the sun out on the other at the same time in correct exposure for both...meh. Hardly needed to tell a story, IMO, but hey great if your set can do it well. But I wouldn't watch movies based on it.

You apparently choose technical video quality over an actual good story. That's like choosing to listen to music you don't like because it's recorded well (audiophile mentality) instead of listening to GREAT music that might not have the best studio recording. I used to do that for awhile back when I bought ribbon speakers in the 1990s. I realized listening to church organ music for the sound quality wasn't making me very excited. I actually ran a web site from 1996-2006 called The Audiophile Asylum (HTML coded on a Commodore Amiga 3000 at the time until 2000). Its entire goal was to rate CDs on both sound quality and music quality (latter is obviously high subjective even so) and help the reader try to find music that preferably had BOTH. I tend to listen to lesser recordings in the car because many recordings are often still great songs. I prefer to listen to the better recordings on the home system. I tend not to listen to the great recordings that have sucky music AT ALL. ;)

As for audio quality, I'd put my 11.1.6 sound system up against some of the better systems out there (7.1.4 is sufficient for most in a smaller room; I run three rows of seats in a 24' long room so I needed more surround speakers and overheads to cover the distance). Most people watching a 55-65" TV are using sound bars for goodness sake (some even use the TV speakers!) That's not cinematic audio. That's a glorified fart box. It's like comparing a Honda owner who bought an exhaust tip for their muffler (which sounds like a ticked off bumblebee, something I totally don't get why anyone would want their car to sound like that anyway) to a full catback exhaust connected to twin turbo Cobb tuned engine. One is a toy. The other is the real thing for increased performance.

Buy hey, if YOU enjoy your system, that's all that matters. I may not comprehend it, but it seems plenty of people enjoy watching movies on phones and listening through Apple's cheap earbuds that come with the phone and don't mind that a $1000 phone has no headphone jack and that you need to carry adapter after adapter with most everything Apple sells these days (progress...ahem). As long as they don't tell me I'm missing out on a great movie experience with earbuds and a 6.5" screen, have at it I say. The only bad part is that is slowly killing the home theater market and desktop computers. My 7 year old Mac Mini Quad i7 is still viable and oddly still "speedy" feeling precisely because the market is focused on getting phones to catch up rather than desktops to keep plowing ahead.

I totally agree. Material things can get in the way of life, forward travel and thinking. Having a huge box filled with old CDs in my house was simply insane to me. The secret to successful travelling is to travel light and i'm that way with life back at home in any city.
Music that I wanted, I ripped into iTunes and the rest was discarded.

The only thing I find odd there is that you had 3000+ CDs to begin with. I spent a LOT of time in the 1990s listening to music on a high-end system and buying all kinds of CDs some from Japan directly to hear high quality good music and I still only ever acquired something in the range of 450 CDs over 30 years (admittedly I stopped buying music in the 2000s at a high pace due to the music industry killing off rock as a mainstream format). 3000+ CDs from someone that claims to enjoy going outside instead of watching or listening to a video or music system just sounds excessive somehow, not to mention expensive! (Even at saver rates of $10 a CD, that's $30k of CDs!)
 
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You apparently choose technical video quality over an actual good story. That's like choosing to listen to music you don't like because it's recorded well (audiophile mentality) instead of listening to GREAT music that might not have the best studio recording.
I find myself doing that as well lately. Mostly because majority of late movies have put so much effort on the technical production, special effects and whatnot, that the story itself just did not make it into the movie.
 
Yeah, the Epson 3100 isn't OLED, but it's FAR from what I'd call "poor video" (black levels in dark scenes are the only thing I'd give to the QLED and nothing beats the QLED at HDR so I still have to differ on it being "absolutely spectacular". No, great black levels and contrast is spectacular. HDR is just a refinement. And watching a movie on a 55" screen is television. It's not a movie theater. It's just NOT, no matter how good the video quality is. It's like comparing watching a movie on a phone to a TV. It's that big of a difference (let alone a 150" or 250" screen). HDR? Even on a QLED that has some very high NITS...MEH. The contrast/blacks are more important, IMO and watching people pick pick pick on the Blu-ray forums about every little shadow detail on every single HDR release.... Are they watching the MOVIE or doing a lab analysis on the picture? Yeah, it's hard to watch a VHS quality movie on a large screen. No, 4K isn't that much better than 2K for most movies, IMO even with HDR. Sharp resolution is important. Having it pitch black on one side of the screen and the sun out on the other at the same time in correct exposure for both...meh. Hardly needed to tell a story, IMO, but hey great if your set can do it well. But I wouldn't watch movies based on it.

You apparently choose technical video quality over an actual good story. That's like choosing to listen to music you don't like because it's recorded well (audiophile mentality) instead of listening to GREAT music that might not have the best studio recording. I used to do that for awhile back when I bought ribbon speakers in the 1990s. I realized listening to church organ music for the sound quality wasn't making me very excited. I actually ran a web site from 1996-2006 called The Audiophile Asylum (HTML coded on a Commodore Amiga 3000 at the time until 2000). Its entire goal was to rate CDs on both sound quality and music quality (latter is obviously high subjective even so) and help the reader try to find music that preferably had BOTH. I tend to listen to lesser recordings in the car because many recordings are often still great songs. I prefer to listen to the better recordings on the home system. I tend not to listen to the great recordings that have sucky music AT ALL. ;)

As for audio quality, I'd put my 11.1.6 sound system up against some of the better systems out there (7.1.4 is sufficient for most in a smaller room; I run three rows of seats in a 24' long room so I needed more surround speakers and overheads to cover the distance). Most people watching a 55-65" TV are using sound bars for goodness sake (some even use the TV speakers!) That's not cinematic audio. That's a glorified fart box. It's like comparing a Honda owner who bought an exhaust tip for their muffler (which sounds like a ticked off bumblebee, something I totally don't get why anyone would want their car to sound like that anyway) to a full catback exhaust connected to twin turbo Cobb tuned engine. One is a toy. The other is the real thing for increased performance.

Buy hey, if YOU enjoy your system, that's all that matters. I may not comprehend it, but it seems plenty of people enjoy watching movies on phones and listening through Apple's cheap earbuds that come with the phone and don't mind that a $1000 phone has no headphone jack and that you need to carry adapter after adapter with most everything Apple sells these days (progress...ahem). As long as they don't tell me I'm missing out on a great movie experience with earbuds and a 6.5" screen, have at it I say. The only bad part is that is slowly killing the home theater market and desktop computers. My 7 year old Mac Mini Quad i7 is still viable and oddly still "speedy" feeling precisely because the market is focused on getting phones to catch up rather than desktops to keep plowing ahead.



The only thing I find odd there is that you had 3000+ CDs to begin with. I spent a LOT of time in the 1990s listening to music on a high-end system and buying all kinds of CDs some from Japan directly to hear high quality good music and I still only ever acquired something in the range of 450 CDs over 30 years (admittedly I stopped buying music in the 2000s at a high pace due to the music industry killing off rock as a mainstream format). 3000+ CDs from someone that claims to enjoy going outside instead of watching or listening to a video or music system just sounds excessive somehow, not to mention expensive! (Even at saver rates of $10 a CD, that's $30k of CDs!)

I worked in radio for over 10+ years. When the record companies sent our stations CDs, IF they made it to the playlist, they were ripped onto MacBook Pro's and saved as WAV files. The CDs were either left for us to keep, given to listeners or sadly, thrown in the garbage bin!
I'd take them home and load them in my cars CD changer at the time for road trips.
 
(black levels in dark scenes are the only thing I'd give to the QLED and nothing beats the QLED at HDR so I still have to differ on it being "absolutely spectacular"

I'm a little bit confused. Are we talking OLED (LG) or QLED (Samsung) here?

Before OLED came out the best reviewed direct view display was the Panasonic Plasma. As great as that picture still is, watching something like Coco HDR (and that dragon!) on an OLED gives me goosebumps. That's the comparison on which I made my statement that when you have a great HDR release when shown on appropriate equipment the result is spectacular. I stand on that statement.

No, 4K isn't that much better than 2K for most movies, IMO even with HDR.

Agree than 4K on smaller screens may not be that much better than 2K. Totally disagree about the HDR part (depending on the film quality), which usually only comes with 4K.

That's like choosing to listen to music you don't like because it's recorded well (audiophile mentality) instead of listening to GREAT music that might not have the best studio recording.

I really don't like Steely Dan's Aja that much as music, but I do enjoy listening to the recording as it places me right in the studio as they are making the recording. Listening to the sound of the piano hammers hitting the strings transports me to countless live performances where I was sitting just feet away from the performer. I appreciate great performances, even if I don't particularly like the music.

I don't drink wine but I appreciate the fact that the a lot of people do, enjoy it, and know a lot about it. If someone is an audiophile I don't see that as being derogative. I am interested in their views as they may catch something in a recording that I don't. If their emphasis is on equipment then that's great if it gives them pleasure.

I also don't understand your statement about great music. Don't know what that is. I do know what moves me (Haydn trumpet Concerto, Widor's Toccata, the Messiah, Beethoven 9th, Avicci's Without You, Dylan's Duquesne Whistle, Lo Stato Sociale's "Una Vita in Vacanza" ....).

And watching a movie on a 55" screen is television. It's not a movie theater.

I assume you aren't U.S. based, as the standard here is pretty much 60-65". It is quite easy to get exactly the same field of vision as you would get in the theater.

I do go to a lot of movies (AMC has a pass where you can see 3 movies a week for the price just a bit more than than the cost of a single movie) and I have huge issues with it. The Yoyos sitting behind me talking, the poor quality sound at levels that cause ear damage - over 100 decibels in a lot of blockbusters, blurry picture. Size and loudness over quality just isn't my thing.

We were watching Games of Thrones S1E2 in 4K and HDR before watching S8E3. Pausing at the scene where the King and the New King's hand were picnicking we could see the individual fruits and tried to figure out which ones would actually be available in Winterfell. There were a lot of comments in U.S. media about how dark the scenes were. The Cinematographer said the problems was in the way it was broadcast. The original is fine. The season 8 4K release can now be pre-ordered. I can't wait to see it as it was meant to be seen with HDR.
 
I'm a little bit confused. Are we talking OLED (LG) or QLED (Samsung) here?

I've seen both. I've also got a Panasonic Plasma and a 2018 QLED (now at my mother's house as she likes it better than I do and I watch all my movies on my projector so just leave TV for the plasma for the most part; I still like the plasma for SD material as the scaler sucks on the QLED).

Before OLED came out the best reviewed direct view display was the Panasonic Plasma. As great as that picture still is, watching something like Coco HDR (and that dragon!) on an OLED gives me goosebumps. That's the comparison on which I made my statement that when you have a great HDR release when shown on appropriate equipment the result is spectacular. I stand on that statement.

I love the contrast on OLED (perfect blacks) and the newer QLEDs have quite decent blacks and tons of NITS for HDR, but when at a glance I can't tell if a movie is 2K or 4K from 6 feet away, WTF is the point? HDR? Sorry, but I have to compare the two movies to tell what it's doing with the exposure in one versus the other. The picture looks good on both and contrast/highlights are pretty damn subjective, IMO. I also see no point in adding HDR to old movies as it's revisionist. People get upset about the studios messing with film grain, but HDR is OK? Some don't want Atmos added even if the director and sound guys approve because it changes what was originally at the theater, but they all seem to jump on the 4K/HDR wagon even though NO THEATER ON EARTH (outside a 70mm print) ever showed much more than 720p equivalent resolution (I can quote the study to prove it if need be). That's due to the loss in resolution from a 3rd generation print by the time it gets to the theater. 70mm preserved maybe 2K by comparison since it's still taken from a 35mm master twice removed. I find the sheer hypocrisy on what was seen in say 1979 with Alien at the theater to the 4K re-release with HDR to be amusing, to the say the least. I complain that it doesn't get an Atmos update (they offered; Ridley turned it down) and they (on the blu-ray forums that is) have a field day about the 70mm 6.0 soundtrack (similar to 5.1 today, but not exactly as it used 4 on-screen speakers or in later years stereo surrounds instead with three on-screen, which is VERY similar to 5.1) being as good as it got in 1979 and I'm like yeah, but 2K was about as good as you got outside true 70mm films due to the losses above (and 720p or less on regular 35mm prints). Needless to say, people don't like looking in the mirror. :D

Honestly, I couldn't care less either way as long as it looks and sounds good, but people will argue to the ends of the earth about these things and all that REALLY matters is someone is happy with what they have. I'd like a 4K projector, but I'm not giving up 3D to get it as 3D is night and day different from 2D whereas 4K is just a linear improvement of sorts, IMO. I also need lens shift in my room and that pretty much kills everything but the Epson pseudo-4K/3D projectors and the high-end Sony models.

Agree than 4K on smaller screens may not be that much better than 2K. Totally disagree about the HDR part (depending on the film quality), which usually only comes with 4K.

I have yet to see any HDR knock my socks off, but then I've only watched so many 4K films as the set is no longer at my house. It was too small to compete with a 92" screen. Now maybe when they get a reasonable price roll-down OLED around that size, I can ditch the projector entirely (but that would likely leave me without 3D since newer sets don't support it, just projectors and as I've said, 3D is where it's at. 4K is a JOKE compared to good 3D. I really don't understand the 3D hate out there, but then most people like Windows and that doesn't register with me either....

I really don't like Steely Dan's Aja that much as music, but I do enjoy listening to the recording as it places me right in the studio as they are making the recording. Listening to the sound of the piano hammers hitting the strings transports me to countless live performances where I was sitting just feet away from the performer. I appreciate great performances, even if I don't particularly like the music.

You see, that could be every piece of music on Earth. Life is way too short to listen to GARBAGE (not meaning Steely Dan) just because it's well recorded. I can record a kid banging on a cymbal and piano with life-like precision. That doesn't mean anyone in their right mind would want to hear it.

I also don't understand your statement about great music. Don't know what that is. I do know what moves me (Haydn trumpet Concerto, Widor's Toccata, the Messiah, Beethoven 9th, Avicci's Without You, Dylan's Duquesne Whistle, Lo Stato Sociale's "Una Vita in Vacanza" ....).

It's simple. It's subjective. What I mean is I think it's absurd to listen to music you DO NOT LIKE just because it's recorded well (see above about kid banging on a piano). But that is the audiophile mentality. They want the best recorded music they can find to show off their $50k 2-channel system with 200 pound Class A amps. It doesn't matter if they like the music. Studies I read about have shown the typical audiophile might have $10k-50k in equipment, but own maybe $200-500 in music. A 'musicphile' (if there were such word) might own $50k in music and have $500 in their 2-channel system. Personally, I prefer a bit more balance than that, but then I've tried both extremes over the years.

I assume you aren't U.S. based, as the standard here is pretty much 60-65". It is quite easy to get exactly the same field of vision as you would get in the theater.

You make strange assumptions. Yes, I'm in the U.S. There is no "standard" here. Please don't make things up to make your point because it makes no difference at all. 60-65" instead of 55" makes ZERO difference either way. It's still TINY compared to a 90-120" screen. I mean TINY. You look at a set sitting against a wall. I look at picture over half the size of my wall (the short one). Yes, you can sit two feet from your 65" screen and have a similar view in your field of vision, but it's darn uncomfortable to focus on a screen two feet in front of your face for a long period of time (like staring at a monitor non-stop for hours). 8-10 feet away is a much more comfortable viewing distance, but requires a larger screen to fill your field of view. 20 feet is better yet, but you'd need a 150-200" screen to do the same.

I do go to a lot of movies (AMC has a pass where you can see 3 movies a week for the price just a bit more than than the cost of a single movie) and I have huge issues with it. The Yoyos sitting behind me talking, the poor quality sound at levels that cause ear damage - over 100 decibels in a lot of blockbusters, blurry picture. Size and loudness over quality just isn't my thing.

Again, what are you talking about? You're inventing strawmen to make your argument that I'm really not interested in either way. What people? What theater plays over 100dB except for peaks? Dolby average 85dB, which is quite safe for 8 hours. Have you been to a Dolby Atmos certified theater? It matters not to my point because I don't go to the theater much anymore. I watch at home on a 92" screen 8 feet from the screen with 11.1.6 sound (17 high quality PSB brand speakers and a large subwoofer that is dead flat to 20Hz). There is no poor quality. There is also no tiny picture. I play at typically 8dB under Dolby levels 77dB average with 97dB peaks, although I did watch Raiders of the Lost Ark the other day at reference level (5.1 upmixed to 11.1.6).

The bottom line is this. If you're happy with a 65" 4K HDR set with a sound bar or whatever, great. If you like streaming video, fine. My arguments in this thread are about reasons to buy physical media (better picture, better sound, has a digital copy included most of the time anyway, etc.). You're less likely to notice shortcomings of streaming on a smaller set too.
 
If there's no physical release I am not getting it, don't want to rent all my life. also, apart from ownership, there is that strange feeling of accomplishment when you save enought money to buy something extra, and you value it much more.

I mean think about music, while I enjoy apple music, it took away that feeling of waiting an album to release, and buy it. I have so much music now I barely know what to listen to, most of the time i am scrolling trough music ... (this is the culture we have now, all and all right now, I mean we get pissed if we have to wait 2 days for a delivery....)

I might be wierd, but really like physical stuff, also I do not buy this eco firnedly thing about stream,
I mean I am sure power and heath generated by streaming is not that eco friendly, servers running, server upgrade (hw whise) and all, are not 0 impact.

You make some good points....but for me, I feel like while I do have so much more music, it does allow me to listen & discover music I would've never sought out. When you buy a physical album, it is usually from an artist that you're already a fan of, or you've heard something from the album. With streaming, I can listen to artists & genres I would've have necessarily purchased. There isn't a risk of spending money to "discover".

In terms of physical media, I'm a bit of a minimalist, lol. While I appreciate a creative movie & music display (I have friends who have that) for me personally, digital works in terms of space, lol
 
I've seen both. I've also got a Panasonic Plasma and a 2018 QLED (now at my mother's house as she likes it better than I do and I watch all my movies on my projector so just leave TV for the plasma for the most part; I still like the plasma for SD material as the scaler sucks on the QLED).



I love the contrast on OLED (perfect blacks) and the newer QLEDs have quite decent blacks and tons of NITS for HDR, but when at a glance I can't tell if a movie is 2K or 4K from 6 feet away, WTF is the point? HDR? Sorry, but I have to compare the two movies to tell what it's doing with the exposure in one versus the other. The picture looks good on both and contrast/highlights are pretty damn subjective, IMO. I also see no point in adding HDR to old movies as it's revisionist. People get upset about the studios messing with film grain, but HDR is OK? Some don't want Atmos added even if the director and sound guys approve because it changes what was originally at the theater, but they all seem to jump on the 4K/HDR wagon even though NO THEATER ON EARTH (outside a 70mm print) ever showed much more than 720p equivalent resolution (I can quote the study to prove it if need be). That's due to the loss in resolution from a 3rd generation print by the time it gets to the theater. 70mm preserved maybe 2K by comparison since it's still taken from a 35mm master twice removed. I find the sheer hypocrisy on what was seen in say 1979 with Alien at the theater to the 4K re-release with HDR to be amusing, to the say the least. I complain that it doesn't get an Atmos update (they offered; Ridley turned it down) and they (on the blu-ray forums that is) have a field day about the 70mm 6.0 soundtrack (similar to 5.1 today, but not exactly as it used 4 on-screen speakers or in later years stereo surrounds instead with three on-screen, which is VERY similar to 5.1) being as good as it got in 1979 and I'm like yeah, but 2K was about as good as you got outside true 70mm films due to the losses above (and 720p or less on regular 35mm prints). Needless to say, people don't like looking in the mirror. :D

Honestly, I couldn't care less either way as long as it looks and sounds good, but people will argue to the ends of the earth about these things and all that REALLY matters is someone is happy with what they have. I'd like a 4K projector, but I'm not giving up 3D to get it as 3D is night and day different from 2D whereas 4K is just a linear improvement of sorts, IMO. I also need lens shift in my room and that pretty much kills everything but the Epson pseudo-4K/3D projectors and the high-end Sony models.



I have yet to see any HDR knock my socks off, but then I've only watched so many 4K films as the set is no longer at my house. It was too small to compete with a 92" screen. Now maybe when they get a reasonable price roll-down OLED around that size, I can ditch the projector entirely (but that would likely leave me without 3D since newer sets don't support it, just projectors and as I've said, 3D is where it's at. 4K is a JOKE compared to good 3D. I really don't understand the 3D hate out there, but then most people like Windows and that doesn't register with me either....



You see, that could be every piece of music on Earth. Life is way too short to listen to GARBAGE (not meaning Steely Dan) just because it's well recorded. I can record a kid banging on a cymbal and piano with life-like precision. That doesn't mean anyone in their right mind would want to hear it.



It's simple. It's subjective. What I mean is I think it's absurd to listen to music you DO NOT LIKE just because it's recorded well (see above about kid banging on a piano). But that is the audiophile mentality. They want the best recorded music they can find to show off their $50k 2-channel system with 200 pound Class A amps. It doesn't matter if they like the music. Studies I read about have shown the typical audiophile might have $10k-50k in equipment, but own maybe $200-500 in music. A 'musicphile' (if there were such word) might own $50k in music and have $500 in their 2-channel system. Personally, I prefer a bit more balance than that, but then I've tried both extremes over the years.



You make strange assumptions. Yes, I'm in the U.S. There is no "standard" here. Please don't make things up to make your point because it makes no difference at all. 60-65" instead of 55" makes ZERO difference either way. It's still TINY compared to a 90-120" screen. I mean TINY. You look at a set sitting against a wall. I look at picture over half the size of my wall (the short one). Yes, you can sit two feet from your 65" screen and have a similar view in your field of vision, but it's darn uncomfortable to focus on a screen two feet in front of your face for a long period of time (like staring at a monitor non-stop for hours). 8-10 feet away is a much more comfortable viewing distance, but requires a larger screen to fill your field of view. 20 feet is better yet, but you'd need a 150-200" screen to do the same.



Again, what are you talking about? You're inventing strawmen to make your argument that I'm really not interested in either way. What people? What theater plays over 100dB except for peaks? Dolby average 85dB, which is quite safe for 8 hours. Have you been to a Dolby Atmos certified theater? It matters not to my point because I don't go to the theater much anymore. I watch at home on a 92" screen 8 feet from the screen with 11.1.6 sound (17 high quality PSB brand speakers and a large subwoofer that is dead flat to 20Hz). There is no poor quality. There is also no tiny picture. I play at typically 8dB under Dolby levels 77dB average with 97dB peaks, although I did watch Raiders of the Lost Ark the other day at reference level (5.1 upmixed to 11.1.6).

The bottom line is this. If you're happy with a 65" 4K HDR set with a sound bar or whatever, great. If you like streaming video, fine. My arguments in this thread are about reasons to buy physical media (better picture, better sound, has a digital copy included most of the time anyway, etc.). You're less likely to notice shortcomings of streaming on a smaller set too.

This is why 'each to their own'. Your system would be my ultimate nightmare in a home. Speakers everywhere, wires and boxes - no damn way.
Very bizarre how you find 65" smallish. I'm upset because we have a 55" which i find truly uneducated in a house. It's horrible - I can't hide the damn thing - I don't have much say as i'm home for four months a year at the max.
Have you seen the size of houses in the rest of the world? 65" would not fit in the majority. As I said, I enjoy watching a film on my iPhone X whilst on a plane - i'm doing that next Thursday to Milan for the Surf & Skate Festival. Each to their own. But I have to be doing things - I honestly would be thoroughly miserable being forced to sit in someones home cinema. Heck, a friend tried to get me to play on a playstation way back in 2009 and after 20 seconds I said 'no way' - just staring at a screen was truly horrible for me.
 
This is why 'each to their own'. Your system would be my ultimate nightmare in a home. Speakers everywhere, wires and boxes - no damn way.

Yeah, it's not really like that...at all. You do know a real home theater is supposed to look like a theater, right?

Very bizarre how you find 65" smallish.

What's bizarre about it when you're used to a 92" screen???

I'm upset because we have a 55" which i find truly uneducated in a house. It's horrible - I can't hide the damn thing

Why would you need to "hide" it? I have a 48" plasma in my living room above my Roland piano. It's mounted on the wall. I used to have a Tori Amos picture there. Now I can display any photo there or a light show or just watch some TV.

Have you seen the size of houses in the rest of the world? 65" would not fit in the majority.

Strange house that can't handle a 5 foot width on a wall. I mean are we talking about a doll house or something in Japan?

My home theater room is 12'x24' (not a "giant" room) and it has a half bathroom in the back corner so it's actually smaller than that. I still managed to fit seating for 6 people across three rows (can bring in a second chair in the back to set in front of the doorway if I need to seat 7 people. I've got 6 pairs of 3D glasses so the regular setup can show all a 3D movie as well (half the glasses can optionally watch in 2D at a double click on the side if someone gets motion sick from 3D or whatever). This isn't totally up-to-date (been adding movie props for decoration), but it will give you an idea. The screen can be retracted and black out drapes opened behind it (drops between two bookcases with a window in-between).

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You make some good points....but for me, I feel like while I do have so much more music, it does allow me to listen & discover music I would've never sought out. When you buy a physical album, it is usually from an artist that you're already a fan of, or you've heard something from the album. With streaming, I can listen to artists & genres I would've have necessarily purchased. There isn't a risk of spending money to "discover".
Understandable, and while I obviously discovered some artist that way too (streaming services) it is a little like radio was back in the days.

Now of course radio today all spit the same artists, so it is more difficult now, as they play what “sells”.

With streaming I get lots of “disposable music “ listen once or twice and then I get lost in the sea of artists that the streaming allows.

It is like owning every game of a console, if you start them even before getting to stage 3 of each game, sure you discovered lots of them, but you truly never enjoyed any.

On games I usually start for example 2 or three and finish one of them before purchasing another, otherwise you never get anywhere.

Music has to be enjoyed, while I like new music, older songs bring memories, and deserve their time, something that with streaming (hey it’s just me may be) I tend to “forget”.
 
at a glance I can't tell if a movie is 2K or 4K from 6 feet away

Agree. You have to know what to look for, but it is there.

That's due to the loss in resolution from a 3rd generation print by the time it gets to the theater.

Huh? All the theaters I have attended are digital. Since many films are now filmed with digital cameras, theoretically there is no loss of resolution.

NO THEATER ON EARTH (outside a 70mm print) ever showed much more than 720p equivalent resolution

Looking at some theater laser digital projector specs we're talking 4K resolution (and $100K):

https://www.nec-display-solutions.c...ma-Projectors/Digital-Cinema/rp/NC3541L.xhtml


You see, that could be every piece of music on Earth.

Not really. There aren't that many great recordings or performers. There are a ton of bad ones. Chesky has some great stuff, but they are pricey.

Have you been to a Dolby Atmos certified theater?

Yes, assuming AMC's Dolby Cinemas meet that category. That's where I did my measurements. Readings peaking over 100 db in multiple theaters in multiple states. I had to wear ear plugs. But these are the films that you would expect to be loud - Avengers, Aquaman, Transformers, etc. I suppose you could say they are peaks, but they exceed 100db for minutes at a time. Mary Poppins 2, Cruel Intentions were just fine.

I also see no point in adding HDR to old movies as it's revisionist.

It's unclear to me whether there is sufficient dynamic range in older films to make an HDR release reasonable. I just got Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and wasn't that impressed. I'd be interested in hearing from others if they have found old movies which have great HDR.

4K is a JOKE compared to good 3D

I have only 1 3D film, Avatar. I did enjoy it, but the hassle (having to wear glasses, replacing the glasses's batteries, the dimness) just didn't do it for me. Some time ago I heard about a glassless 3D, but haven't heard anything recently.

There is no "standard" here.

Yeah, the average isn't there yet. I looking at the home theater perspective rather than the general population.
 
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