That wouldn't work because the iMac didn't get T2 until 2020. They're not going to drop the 2019 iMacs, and I don't think they'll drop the 2017 iMacs either.
I'm biased though, since I have a 2017 iMac and 2017 MacBook.
Both were sold until 2019.
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Do you think macOS 12 Monterey is the last OS for the 2014 Mac mini?
- Thread starter EugW
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I'm biased though, since I have a 2017 iMac and 2017 MacBook.
Both were sold until 2019.My impression is that Apple supports their devices for about seven years after the introduction year, but that they tend to extend that a bit for devices that were on the market for a long time.The 2015 MacBook was dropped this year though, so those seven years are not set in stone. I also have the impression they are axing support for the Intel machines relatively aggressively since Big Sur.
Apple normally doesn’t drop old Macs and old iOS devices in the same year. The last two years, they have dropped Macs only, so I personally expect them to drop support for the iPhone 6s and some old iPads next year, but to keep the list of supported Macs unchanged.
Another reason is that it won’t be so easy to drop Mac models next year. The 2015 MacBook Air was also sold until 2019 and a new model only arrived in 2018 (yes, there was a 2017 model but it was almost identical). There was no iMac in 2016 so they would have to go immediately to the 2017 model, which might upset a lot of owners. So it seems more logical that Apple would just drop a lot of models in 2023 instead of trying to squeeze out a few next year.
So yes, I personally think Apple won’t drop the 2014 Mac mini next year. However, eventually it is just Apple making the decision and its decisions are usually pretty arbitrary. The good news is, even if support is dropped, macOS Monterey will still receive updates for two years, and you always have a good chance to update to the next macOS with some tricks, though that is entirely at your own risk of course.
Heh, I was looking through some of the old videos and articles on the 2014 Mac mini, and basically everyone complained about it at launch, mainly because it lost RAM upgradability and because it's slower than the 2012. However, I'm coming at it from a different perspective since I just need it for business applications, and in 2022 I don't want to be stuck with Catalina for official support. I've come to really like Big Sur's new look, and I also like some of the small little new features in Monterey. Thus, after initially considering the 2012, I eventually decided I wasn't interested in the 2012 at all, despite its ease of upgradability.
Even if Monterey turns out to be the last macOS for the 2014 Mac mini, I or a family member can continue to happily use it until 2025 at least. Getting macOS 13 like @NewUsername suggests would be really nice though. I guess what s/he suggests is that would be like the upgrade from Sierra to High Sierra. All the machines that got Sierra also got High Sierra.
I do have to agree about that entry level 4 GB i5-4260U though. That machine was unimpressive even in 2014. The upgrade to the i5-4278U is quite a big jump. Sure the price difference back in 2014 was significant, but it came with much higher CPU performance and also doubled RAM and storage. And in 2021 the price premium for this configuration on the used market is only ~$50 or so.
As mentioned, I've been using my 2017 Core m3 MacBook to power my 30" ACD, and its performance is nearly identical to the i5-4278U (according to Geekbench measures) (although the Core m3 gets more advanced video decode acceleration). Overall, I've been quite pleased with the CPU performance of the Core m3 for my applications, so I'm sure I'll be pleased with the CPU performance of the i5-4278U too.
Even if Monterey turns out to be the last macOS for the 2014 Mac mini, I or a family member can continue to happily use it until 2025 at least. Getting macOS 13 like @NewUsername suggests would be really nice though. I guess what s/he suggests is that would be like the upgrade from Sierra to High Sierra. All the machines that got Sierra also got High Sierra.
I do have to agree about that entry level 4 GB i5-4260U though. That machine was unimpressive even in 2014. The upgrade to the i5-4278U is quite a big jump. Sure the price difference back in 2014 was significant, but it came with much higher CPU performance and also doubled RAM and storage. And in 2021 the price premium for this configuration on the used market is only ~$50 or so.
As mentioned, I've been using my 2017 Core m3 MacBook to power my 30" ACD, and its performance is nearly identical to the i5-4278U (according to Geekbench measures) (although the Core m3 gets more advanced video decode acceleration). Overall, I've been quite pleased with the CPU performance of the Core m3 for my applications, so I'm sure I'll be pleased with the CPU performance of the i5-4278U too.
I figured someone would mention that, and it's a good point. However, I suspect that they won't throw Intel overboard quite as quickly, because the installed base of Intel Macs is an order of magnitude larger than the G4/G5 user base was.
And even if they do something similar to those days, that suggests three more years of macOS versions after the last Intel Mac is sold. That would mean the last Intel macOS support would be 2025, with security updates until 2027. In that context, @NewUsername's postulated scenario still can make sense, where everything on Monterey gets macOS 13 in 2022 as well, but then they start more heavily dumping Macs in macOS 14 in 2023 including all 2013-2017 machines currently supported. All 2017 machines were discontinued in 2018 or 2019.
Anyhow, I do agree that unless you have a specific workflow that requires Intel, it's best not to get too heavily invested into Intel Macs these days. As for the 2014 Mac mini, all I'm hoping for is macOS 13, but even just getting Monterey is fine since I'll probably be upgrading this particular setup to Apple Silicon sooner rather than later anyway.
The 2014 Mac mini is a bit of an edge case because it lasted so long. Bear in mind that at this stage it can have Monterrey whereas the 2013 MacBook pro (and 2014 model) both have Haswell CPU as well but because they were discontinued within a year of introduction they don't qualify for Monterrey - the 2013 MacBook Pro tops out with Big Sur.
My feeling on the Apple policy on OS support is that they'll offer at least 5 years - plus 2 years of security updates to match the next two OS versions.
It's the hardware repair that is listed as up between 5 and 7 years after a product is discontinued. This becomes harder when a vendor (such as Intel) discontinues parts such as CPUs. In this case I think Apple would offer a refurbished more modern equivalent.
Sometimes Apple need to discontinue because Intel are scrapping the CPUs they are relying on - the Coffee Lake CPUs going into the current 2018 Mac minis were relatively quickly discontinued and in part forced the hand of Apple who have to stop production of the mini soon because Intel will have shipped their last pile of CPUs.
The mobile CPUs that went into the older minis were much more longer lived - partly the reason why the 2014 model lived on so long despite being long in the tooth.
The 2014 model went off sale in October 2018, I expect it will get a new OS until October 2023 - 2 versions after Monterey - followed by 2 years of security updates. You're in luck.
Whereas people with older MacBook Pros 2013/14 don't officially get such support despite having the same hardware.
It's easy to get sanguine about that but it's a long period of support for sure. Owners of the 2018 mini are also in luck - because the so-called 2020 Mini (where it received a spec bump) is not an official model - it's just a spec bump. So 2018 model users still have a 'current' Mini which will receive updates for 5 years after it's replaced.
Currently, this should be 2026/27 (plus 2 years of security updates) by my reckoning even if the Intel minis get discontinued in favour of an ARM Mini - sometime between now and WWDC 2022 I would have thought.
By the same token then 2019 Mac Pro can expect to get the same length support - perhaps even longer if they don't replace it till October 2022 by the time next year's OS comes out.
Remember also that the 2013 Mac Pro - the trash can - only went away in December 2019, people who bought one in 2013/14 could easily expect support until September 2024 with updates for 2 years after that - a long time indeed.
Apple can still make certain newer features ARM only (or mandate T2 CPUs as they are a natural limit) - and it's easy to say that the iMac didn't get T2 until very recently (2019?) whereas T2 MacBook Pros have been around since 2017.
At the end of the day, if you need an Intel workflow you're best getting a currently on sale Intel Mac now rather than trying to save a few quid by looking for a used one. iMac 2020 is still on sale whereas the Intel iMac Pro was discontinued in August 2020 - short of the introduction of Big Sur.
That means the iMac Pro might not qualify for whatever OS is released in October 2025 but probably will get security updates until September 2027.
Whatever happens Apple will want rid of older edge case Macs as soon as practical, and while T2 is a natural borderline Apple need to wait till October 2026 (well over 5 years after the iMac 2019 27" was discontinued in August 2020, but the iMac 21.5" 2019 stayed on until April 2021) and then every Intel Mac prior to that will have had at least 5 years support by Apple standards. So owners of T2 Macs older than that might get more support than they bargained for if Apple are treating T2 as a borderline.
In terms of edge cases, the trashcan Mac Pro 2013 will be end of the line by this point, the long lived 2014 Mini will also be done for (if not sooner), The 2016 MacBook Pros with the T1 chip will have had a really long support period if they last this long too so they probably shouldn't get too discouraged if they've lasted till 2026 but I equally wouldn't be surprised if Apple let them go by 2025.
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very fair analysis. Plus, even when security updates stop, it's not like the computer is bricked. Firefox/Chrome will be updated for a few more years after that. you can also always run Windows 10 on old Intel Macs and that will be supported for many years
Edit: or even Linux forever
Got my Mac mini 2014 today - 8 GB RAM, Core i5-4278U, 1 TB OEM hard drive.
It came with a fresh install of Catalina, but even with a fresh install, it was basically unusable on that hard drive. As soon as I tried loading a few things the machine slowed to a crawl. It took just about forever to launch the Monterey installer off the hard drive.
Performance is decent with the NVMe drive. This is the easiest hardware upgrade of all time BTW, and it’s great being able to run Monterey natively. Here’s hoping for macOS 13 too on this nice little machine.
Now I just need to find the right icon.
The only little bit odd thing is that with my 30” Cinema Display, for the initial part of the bootup, the Apple icon and progress bar are giant, I’m thinking because the OS is recognizing the screen in single-link mode at 1280x800. Only after part of the OS loads does it switch to normal sized icon and progress bar, at 2560x1600.
It came with a fresh install of Catalina, but even with a fresh install, it was basically unusable on that hard drive. As soon as I tried loading a few things the machine slowed to a crawl. It took just about forever to launch the Monterey installer off the hard drive.
Performance is decent with the NVMe drive. This is the easiest hardware upgrade of all time BTW, and it’s great being able to run Monterey natively. Here’s hoping for macOS 13 too on this nice little machine.
Now I just need to find the right icon.
The only little bit odd thing is that with my 30” Cinema Display, for the initial part of the bootup, the Apple icon and progress bar are giant, I’m thinking because the OS is recognizing the screen in single-link mode at 1280x800. Only after part of the OS loads does it switch to normal sized icon and progress bar, at 2560x1600.
With this post in mind along with the good results I've had with my 2014 Mac mini running Monterey, I've since ordered a 2015 13" MacBook Pro with i5, with 8 GB RAM and 128 GB SSD. It both officially supports Monterey, and it has easily upgradable storage. Hopefully Apple decides to be generous and gives it macOS 13 too.
I was quite bummed that my 2014 iMac isn't supported. I can't believe I've had it 7 years.. time is sadly flying! I'd really like a new one but find it hard to justify.
If it's a late 2014 model you're stuck on Big Sur which will get security updates for nearly two years - if that's any consolation. My poor 2012 Mini is marooned - it's only capable of Catalina and security support for that ends next year.
IMHO I would say at some point older Macs that still only have Thunderbolt 2 ports would be at risk against future Mac OS support. For example a MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2016) - Technical Specifications has Thunderbolt 3 (up to 40 Gbps). For the iMacs that means needing 2017 models. For laptops 2016 models.
Mini 2014, Mac Pro 2013 would diffidently fall off if that happens.
All depends if the Monterey successor maintains the current supported Mac models.
Mini 2014, Mac Pro 2013 would diffidently fall off if that happens.
All depends if the Monterey successor maintains the current supported Mac models.
Yeah, there is a strong chance that both my 2014 Mac mini and my 2015 MacBook Pro will lose support (aside from security updates) after Monterey. I'm hopeful though that @NewUsername is correct and we'll get another year out of them.
BTW, my thinking here with these purchases was that these are machines soon destined for my young kids. For example my 9 year-old is currently using my old 2009 MacBookPro5,5 with patched 10.15 Catalina. While it works, it kinda has a hackintosh feel to it, and it's sloooooowwww. She can actually do what she needs with it, and isn't complaining too much, but it's really just a case of her not knowing any better. She asked me tried to help her with her homework a couple of times, but Google Classroom ran like crap on it and it irritated the hell out of me. Google Classroom is irritating in general, but it's less irritating on more modern machines.
However, I wasn't about to give her my 2017 12" MacBook because I'm selfish and because I'm sure she'll get crumbs in its keyboard or something and destroy its functionality. On the flip side, I wasn't going to get her a brand new M1 MacBook Air either, esp. at that age. So, the 2015 13" MacBook Pro is a nice compromise. Same would apply to the 2014 Mac mini. Quite cheap in 2021, and they will get security updates until at at least 2024. (I also picked up a 23" Cinema HD Display for the very cheap just recently and it works great with the Mac mini.)
A few years from now, she might be mature enough to warrant getting her a more recent Mac. Or she can have my 2017 MacBook or 2017 iMac at that time.
BTW, my thinking here with these purchases was that these are machines soon destined for my young kids. For example my 9 year-old is currently using my old 2009 MacBookPro5,5 with patched 10.15 Catalina. While it works, it kinda has a hackintosh feel to it, and it's sloooooowwww. She can actually do what she needs with it, and isn't complaining too much, but it's really just a case of her not knowing any better. She asked me tried to help her with her homework a couple of times, but Google Classroom ran like crap on it and it irritated the hell out of me. Google Classroom is irritating in general, but it's less irritating on more modern machines.
However, I wasn't about to give her my 2017 12" MacBook because I'm selfish
and because I'm sure she'll get crumbs in its keyboard or something and destroy its functionality. On the flip side, I wasn't going to get her a brand new M1 MacBook Air either, esp. at that age. So, the 2015 13" MacBook Pro is a nice compromise. Same would apply to the 2014 Mac mini. Quite cheap in 2021, and they will get security updates until at at least 2024. (I also picked up a 23" Cinema HD Display for the very cheap just recently and it works great with the Mac mini.)A few years from now, she might be mature enough to warrant getting her a more recent Mac. Or she can have my 2017 MacBook or 2017 iMac at that time.
Good call on the Thunderbolt spec, as it appears to get rid of the outliers as previously mentioned. 2015 MacBook Pro. Problem is certain 2015 model MacBook Pros lingered until July 2018 (the discrete graphics versions with Radeon R9 M370X were discontinued in October 2016). At least they came with 16Gb RAM as standard, I guess 2 extra years is great if your Mac can support it - those Macs were highly rated after the Touch Bar Macs came out.
I guess users can expect software updates till October 2023 with security patches thereafter.
Well, the 12" MacBook doesn't even have Thunderbolt of any kind, and the last one was a 2017 model that was sold until 2019.
I think the younger me always liked to have the latest tech and part of me still does but common sense tends to kick in more these day ha
Interesting enough the early 2015, early 2016, and early 2017 MacBooks all support a single USB-C port. But the early 2015 model was dropped when Monterey came around. Question is the early 2016 MacBook survivable next go around?
I would think it has to be on its last OS version. The 2014 was crippled with slow 5400rpm HDDs and, more importantly, non-upgradeable RAM. The base model has a measly 4Gb soldered in. Monterey, I think, is the end of the road.
Why would Thunderbolt 3 be relevant though?
As for the 2016 MB: given it was replaced in 2017, I’d say it’s at risk of being dropped. But I wouldn’t be surprised if that only happened in 2023.
And that 1.4 GHz ULV CPU. Woohoo.
Yikes, forgot about that. The whole 2014 lineup was only dual-core. Cook and co really seemed to despise the Mini at that point.
Dual- and quad-core CPUs had a different pin-out so offering both would have required different mainboards. My point is though: the 2014 lineup should have been quad-core throughout.
I'm happily using a 2014 Mac mini with 2.6 GHz dual-core i5 daily. In fact, since it's my VPN work machine, I spend more time on this machine than on my personal 2017 Core i5-7600 quad-core iMac. Performance is very decent for mainstream usage such as business applications, VPN, surfing, mail, and what not, with no significant lags. Even Photos is OK. Also, even the 1.4 GHz model would be serviceable in terms of basic consumer-oriented performance. My wife has an A10 iPad gen 7 with roughly similar CPU performance and it's fine. I do agree though there should have been quad-core models for power users, even if it meant a second logic board layout.
The main problem with the 1.4 GHz 2014 model IMO is the non-upgradable 4 GB RAM. To my surprise though, it seems that that 4 GB 2014 Mac minis with 500 GB hard drive still seem relatively popular on eBay, in the ~US$150 range, or somewhat cheaper if scuffed up. I guess it's because they can be used as an introduction to Monterey (after upgrading the SSD), even if it means you can only run a few applications at a time before hitting that beach ball. It seems the 2012 models have started to lose their shine on eBay, with the 8 GB dual-core 2012 models being priced roughly the same as the 4 GB 2014 models, presumably because the 2012s are stuck on Catalina.
Anyhow, because I have been pleased with the performance of my 2014 2.6 GHz i5-4278U Mac mini, I have just ordered a 2015 2.7 GHz i5-5257U MacBook Pro for my daughter. Performance is roughly similar, with the latter being perhaps just 5% faster. General CPU performance of these machines is roughly in line with my 2017 Core m3 16 GB MacBook, although I'm keeping that one for myself, for its form factor, hardware h.265 acceleration, and because I'm sure my kid would damage it in short order. The 2015 MacBook Pros seem bomb proof in comparison, whereas my 2017 MacBook is a delicate little flower.
So what? iPads don’t run full-blown desktop applications.
I just have to boot up a few VMs, compile source code or run complex mathematical models to see a dual-core choke.
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They run full blown consumer applications and many prosumer applications. Even some pro applications. And remember, I was talking about consumer-oriented performance anyway.
Do you own an iPad Pro? We have various iPads. While our A8X iPad Air 2s lag now, the A10 iPad 7 feels just fine, even when compared to my A10X iPad Pro 10.5". BTW, we have Smart Keyboards for both the iPad 7 and iPad Pro so they function as laptop replacements in our household.
Sure, but you are not a mainstream consumer user.
Like I said, they should have had quad-core 2014 models for power users, but it would not have made much sense to make ALL of them quad-core, for cost reasons. There was no need for consumers in 2014 to buy quad-core when it wouldn't make much of an impact for their daily usage. I'd guess people running even just one VM represent less than 2% of the total Mac installed base.
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they didn't. Yet they did for the 2011 and 2012 models, making them worth looking at if you just needed something with very decent CPU performance, but could do with less impressive GPU performance.
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