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Update: Went ahead and made the purchase this morning. Kind of excited to use it now.
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I use the exact model you're considering. I love it. My dentist told me I either needed to buy an electric toothbrush or come see him an additional time per year. That was a no brainer. :)

You can purchase third party heads for this model that are far cheaper than the Philips brand.

Really? Are they as effective? Philips gave me a $4 off coupon on their brush heads so I might use that first.
 
Update: Went ahead and made the purchase this morning. Kind of excited to use it now.
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Really? Are they as effective? Philips gave me a $4 off coupon on their brush heads so I might use that first.

I have the Series 2 and like it. SOO much better than the previous electric toothbrush I had as it brushes as well on the last day before recharge as it does on day 1 of the charge. My previous one was weak by the time the battery needed changing. I don't find the brush heads to be unreasonably priced. I get a pack of 3 once a year for $21 (what they cost last time I bought a pack). Also, the heads all come with new covers where my old one didn't.

I like the 2 minute timer, as well as the flat base so it can stand upright in my medicine cabinet.
 
I use the Philips Sonicare Flexcare Platinum Connected. Might have gotten the order of all of that mess wrong.

It works well, but the bluetooth feature is probably something I'll do without whenever it's time to replace. I'm happy with it though, and I feel like it definitely cleans my teeth better, but that might just be me justifying the cost subconsciously.
 
Oral B/Braun and Sonicare essentially do the same thing. The Oral B/Braun units are easier to use overall for those with limited mobility or those who'll never learn to brush with a Sonicare, because it does have a specific method of ensuring better cleaning!

If anyone's interested or needs a new one, I advise you to order or buy in person from Costco or Sam's Club. I can't speak for Sam's Club because there isn't one near me, but I do know Costco offers a wide range of models in stores and in person. Some models such as the Diamond Clean can only be ordered online once you register and link your membership card to your account. You get two units with their set of parts and you save quite a lot of money compared to buying a regular unit at a typical online retailer or in-person store.
 
I use an inexpensive $25 Sonicare model I got on Amazon (had an older Sonicare Elite for quite a few years, but it died and I didn't want to spend that type of money without researching it more than I was willing to do at the time, so I went for a basic holdmeover and turns out I am also very satisfied with this one.)

After using the electric toothbrush for cleaning, I still use a regular toothbrush to work a stannous fluoride gel product into my teeth, as it's the only thing I've used that has eliminated sensitivity outright.
 
The only drawback to my Braun is that the liquid tends to drip down the from the brush head onto the handle and charger. It can get nasty without regular cleaning.
 
I use an inexpensive $25 Sonicare model I got on Amazon (had an older Sonicare Elite for quite a few years, but it died and I didn't want to spend that type of money without researching it more than I was willing to do at the time, so I went for a basic holdmeover and turns out I am also very satisfied with this one.)

After using the electric toothbrush for cleaning, I still use a regular toothbrush to work a stannous fluoride gel product into my teeth, as it's the only thing I've used that has eliminated sensitivity outright.

They're all the same. The more expensive models may work slightly differently depending on the multiple modes they have.

The only drawback to my Braun is that the liquid tends to drip down the from the brush head onto the handle and charger. It can get nasty without regular cleaning.

Detach the head post brushing and run water through it from the cavity. Run the metal prong under water and shake it off, reattach the head.
 
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They're all the same. The more expensive models may work slightly differently depending on the multiple modes they have.



Detach the head post brushing and run water through it from the cavity. Run the metal prong under water and shake it off, reattach the head.

If you are referencing Sonicare, I might agree, bu I disagree if the statement is applied across the spectrum of toothbrushes. The cheaper oscillating or circular movement brushes are not as effective as the Sonicare action.
 
If you are referencing Sonicare, I might agree, bu I disagree if the statement is applied across the spectrum of toothbrushes. The cheaper oscillating or circular movement brushes are not as effective as the Sonicare action.
If we were discussing disposable electric toothbrushes aided by a AA or AAA battery, then you'd have a point. Except we were talking about Oral B Pro/Braun Pro oscillating toothbrushes. These are rechargable electric toothbrushes. Each model by Braun is within $10-15 of the equivelent Sonicare. Philips cites two studies that prove the Sonicare is better, however, these studies used years old models from Braun and didn't have the capability Brauns did at the time. Furthermore, Philips has cited a 31,000 strokes-per-minute claim for all the Sonicare models since Philips bought Sonicare from its original company, Optiva, in the early 1990s. Multiple studies have been doen since the late 1990s showing a marked improvement in patients using an oscillating/rotating brush compared to a sonic or Sonicare brush. A Sonicare's true stroke count is 15,500. Sonicare claims their brushes are capable of cleaning in between teeth, except this has been proven false. Plaque or the technical term, bio-film, is a sticky/tacky substance. The reports of Sonicare brushes capable of producing a cavitation effect that's capable of loosening said plaque and food between teeth is wildly exaggerated, based on two studies done. One in the 1990s, against a manual toothbrush, two, a study done in the early 2010s where they used something called an "ionic toothbrush." In addition, Sonicare frequently touts their brush's ability by dipping the head in some water to create a fizzy action. Guess what, Oral B's do the same. Water's nice, but saliva is thicker, and water, saliva and paste in varying amounts will form a syrup-like mixture that won't produce any cavitation effect. Neither it nor a water-pik or similar is capable of removing bio film or anything but already loose pieces of food. You need actual mechanical removal of it through the use of floss. To clean the tooth's sides and to go into the gum line and get gunk out, using a C patter. Not only will your gums thank you for this, but you'll avoid the risk of having perio pockets, which is a concern in older folks.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15633499


To quote:



Data revealed that the oscillating/rotating toothbrush was more effective than the Sonicare toothbrushes with respect to plaque removal. It is possible that factors associated with the clinical situation such as damping resulting from bristle contact with the tooth surface and the high viscosity of saliva and dentifrice may counteract dynamic fluid activity in vivo. This review indicates that dynamic fluid activity beyond the reach of bristles as demonstrated in the laboratory is yet unproven in the clinical situation.



Now, here's some interesting news. Colgate Europe has produced their own sonic brush, called the A1500, capable of producing 32,500 strokes. This brush is also a 3D brush, meaning unlike the Sonicare units, it doesn't move the brush head left and right. It moves it in that direction and also front to back. Allowing the bristles to get in between teeth and poke just under the gum line. It's also got a built in sensor so it knows when it's cleaning the top of your teeth, and will dip in more. The intriguing part? It got beat by an Oral B. The only electric brush capable or surpassing a Oral B brush to my knowledge is called a Rotodent. Which can be bought through a dentist here in the states, but is freely available in Canada and Europe, to my knowledge. These are for the elderly, but they have a superior cleaning capability and it's not uncommon for younger people to buy one through their dentist.

The cheapest Oral B I'd ever recommend is possibly the Pro 1000, which can be had for $42 + Tax on Amazon. The basic Sonicare Essence costs a little less, but is also prone to that nasty black moldy gunk. The supposed patent pending tech of a Sonicare is nothing more than basic science. Here's the Flex Care. Very popular middle of the road model without paying excess for the silly Diamond Clean. It's a really good brush and some units come with a UV cleaner chamber, which is a gimmick. As soon as you remove the brush head, it'll be attacked by aerial bacterial.

https://www.m3design.com/wordpress/...uct-Teardown-Sonicare-Electric-Toothbrush.pdf

As you can see, there's nothing special about it. Sonicare's "patented" tech is nothing more than basic high school level science. Competitors merely changed their internals and bypassed their useless patents.


At the end of the day, it's really up to the person and what they prefer. I used Sonicares since around the time they came out up until several years ago. They have a huge learning curve. According to my dentist and my wife's, it's not uncommon for Sonicare users to not know how to use theirs and leave massive amounts of plaque, which over time damaged their teeth. Philips also seems to have a habit of giving boxes of free units to dentists and take them out to lunch every other month, or at least they do here. I'd use Sonicare now if they could do something like Colgate Europe in their A1500 and if they stopped making their units in China. My Braun was made in Germany. The only Chinese made Brauns exist in Asian export countries. Here in North America, it's either made in Iowa or Germany, as are the replacement heads. Europe gets it from Germany only. Sonicare, even the expensive Diamond Clean, are made in China. It used to be made in other countries years ago. Nowadays, you can read accounts of these units failing within months or under 4 years. Whereas prior units made in a country other than the aforementioned have lasted nearly a decade.

Personally, nothing from Sonicare can replicate the "cupping" ability of a Braun head and how it's capable of cleaning and polishing each tooth individually. Plus the tapered bristles capable of reaching in between teeth, even tight contacts, to help loosen some plaque.

I recall you mentioning you'd want to try one for a while. I believe Oral B/Braun do a 60 day money back guarantee, no questions asked. If you're not satisfied, you simply send it in according to the instructions below and they'll process it and send you a pre-paid debit card.

https://oralb.com/en-us/oral-care-topics/oral-care-topics/satisfaction-guaranteed

I do recommend buying it in store and price matching it to Amazon or simply ordering from Amazon. Though I'm not sure how they'd handle a return. The Pro 1000 is fairly basic. 2 minute timer with quadrant alert, pressure monitor (press to hard and the motor will slow down considerably so you don't ruin your enamel or gums and a single mode (on). The Pro 2000, which will be hard to find, comes with 2 modes, IIRC and a pressure light. The Pro 3000 is the sweet spot, but also more expensive. I personally use the Pro 5000.

I use 2 heads: The sensitive gums one, which is an extra soft bristle. It clean plaque well and is cupped. And then another head that had a rubber cup, allowing you to use toothpaste as a form of polishing. Which really helps if you're a coffee and black tea drinker. Those stains! :eek:

And go buy Glide floss. It's the best thing you'll ever do for your oral health. It's like tacky tape; it picks up everything!
 
If we were discussing disposable electric toothbrushes aided by a AA or AAA battery, then you'd have a point. Except we were talking about Oral B Pro/Braun Pro oscillating toothbrushes. These are rechargable electric toothbrushes. Each model by Braun is within $10-15 of the equivelent Sonicare. Philips cites two studies that prove the Sonicare is better, however, these studies used years old models from Braun and didn't have the capability Brauns did at the time. Furthermore, Philips has cited a 31,000 strokes-per-minute claim for all the Sonicare models since Philips bought Sonicare from its original company, Optiva, in the early 1990s. Multiple studies have been doen since the late 1990s showing a marked improvement in patients using an oscillating/rotating brush compared to a sonic or Sonicare brush. A Sonicare's true stroke count is 15,500. Sonicare claims their brushes are capable of cleaning in between teeth, except this has been proven false. Plaque or the technical term, bio-film, is a sticky/tacky substance. The reports of Sonicare brushes capable of producing a cavitation effect that's capable of loosening said plaque and food between teeth is wildly exaggerated, based on two studies done. One in the 1990s, against a manual toothbrush, two, a study done in the early 2010s where they used something called an "ionic toothbrush." In addition, Sonicare frequently touts their brush's ability by dipping the head in some water to create a fizzy action. Guess what, Oral B's do the same. Water's nice, but saliva is thicker, and water, saliva and paste in varying amounts will form a syrup-like mixture that won't produce any cavitation effect. Neither it nor a water-pik or similar is capable of removing bio film or anything but already loose pieces of food. You need actual mechanical removal of it through the use of floss. To clean the tooth's sides and to go into the gum line and get gunk out, using a C patter. Not only will your gums thank you for this, but you'll avoid the risk of having perio pockets, which is a concern in older folks.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15633499


To quote:







Now, here's some interesting news. Colgate Europe has produced their own sonic brush, called the A1500, capable of producing 32,500 strokes. This brush is also a 3D brush, meaning unlike the Sonicare units, it doesn't move the brush head left and right. It moves it in that direction and also front to back. Allowing the bristles to get in between teeth and poke just under the gum line. It's also got a built in sensor so it knows when it's cleaning the top of your teeth, and will dip in more. The intriguing part? It got beat by an Oral B. The only electric brush capable or surpassing a Oral B brush to my knowledge is called a Rotodent. Which can be bought through a dentist here in the states, but is freely available in Canada and Europe, to my knowledge. These are for the elderly, but they have a superior cleaning capability and it's not uncommon for younger people to buy one through their dentist.

The cheapest Oral B I'd ever recommend is possibly the Pro 1000, which can be had for $42 + Tax on Amazon. The basic Sonicare Essence costs a little less, but is also prone to that nasty black moldy gunk. The supposed patent pending tech of a Sonicare is nothing more than basic science. Here's the Flex Care. Very popular middle of the road model without paying excess for the silly Diamond Clean. It's a really good brush and some units come with a UV cleaner chamber, which is a gimmick. As soon as you remove the brush head, it'll be attacked by aerial bacterial.

https://www.m3design.com/wordpress/...uct-Teardown-Sonicare-Electric-Toothbrush.pdf

As you can see, there's nothing special about it. Sonicare's "patented" tech is nothing more than basic high school level science. Competitors merely changed their internals and bypassed their useless patents.


At the end of the day, it's really up to the person and what they prefer. I used Sonicares since around the time they came out up until several years ago. They have a huge learning curve. According to my dentist and my wife's, it's not uncommon for Sonicare users to not know how to use theirs and leave massive amounts of plaque, which over time damaged their teeth. Philips also seems to have a habit of giving boxes of free units to dentists and take them out to lunch every other month, or at least they do here. I'd use Sonicare now if they could do something like Colgate Europe in their A1500 and if they stopped making their units in China. My Braun was made in Germany. The only Chinese made Brauns exist in Asian export countries. Here in North America, it's either made in Iowa or Germany, as are the replacement heads. Europe gets it from Germany only. Sonicare, even the expensive Diamond Clean, are made in China. It used to be made in other countries years ago. Nowadays, you can read accounts of these units failing within months or under 4 years. Whereas prior units made in a country other than the aforementioned have lasted nearly a decade.

Personally, nothing from Sonicare can replicate the "cupping" ability of a Braun head and how it's capable of cleaning and polishing each tooth individually. Plus the tapered bristles capable of reaching in between teeth, even tight contacts, to help loosen some plaque.

I recall you mentioning you'd want to try one for a while. I believe Oral B/Braun do a 60 day money back guarantee, no questions asked. If you're not satisfied, you simply send it in according to the instructions below and they'll process it and send you a pre-paid debit card.

https://oralb.com/en-us/oral-care-topics/oral-care-topics/satisfaction-guaranteed

I do recommend buying it in store and price matching it to Amazon or simply ordering from Amazon. Though I'm not sure how they'd handle a return. The Pro 1000 is fairly basic. 2 minute timer with quadrant alert, pressure monitor (press to hard and the motor will slow down considerably so you don't ruin your enamel or gums and a single mode (on). The Pro 2000, which will be hard to find, comes with 2 modes, IIRC and a pressure light. The Pro 3000 is the sweet spot, but also more expensive. I personally use the Pro 5000.

I use 2 heads: The sensitive gums one, which is an extra soft bristle. It clean plaque well and is cupped. And then another head that had a rubber cup, allowing you to use toothpaste as a form of polishing. Which really helps if you're a coffee and black tea drinker. Those stains! :eek:

And go buy Glide floss. It's the best thing you'll ever do for your oral health. It's like tacky tape; it picks up everything!

Mostly I have no issue with your post. All I did was clarify your statement that they are all the sames which across the spectrum they are not. Secondly, gum health requires a Waterpik, no ifs, ands or buts. Manual flossing can't compete, especially not for the average person who does not do it right. And even if they do it right, the Waterpik pocket head is probably 10x effective flushing bacteria from the area between teeth versus trying to manually scrape it out. . :)

Here is a good article: The Best Electric Toothbrush

In our experience, all of these brushes, even the top-end ones, did the same thing—moved toothpaste around in your mouth. Toothbrushes that identify as “sonic” like Philips and Waterpik models tend to be quieter and have a vibration-like movement, and oscillating brushes are louder. But this is a distinction between different types of brushes made by different manufacturers, not expensive brushes versus cheap ones.
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First, a point of order about the word “sonic”: Per advertising from Sonicare that is now close to two decades old, some people take this to mean that sonic toothbrushes “knock off plaque” with “sound waves.” This is not an effect proven in any research.

However, sonic toothbrushes can produce a secondary effect described in a handful of studies involving fluid dynamics. Independent research does show that the fluid dynamics generated by a toothbrush moving at high frequency can “remove bacteria in vitro even at distances up to 4 mm beyond the tips of the bristles” (Stanford, 1997). The efficacy of this movement varied depending on the distance and time spent, and nothing will remove 100 percent of the bacteria/plaque all the time, but this is a significant, if secondary, effect generated by a “sonic” toothbrush.

There are no independent studies I could find that compare toothbrush models or brands, and all the ones tested for the fluid dynamics aspect are Sonicare brushes, which are all 31,000 movements-per-minute brushes. Other brands have toothbrushes that move faster, slower, and at roughly the same speed as this. Though the fluid dynamics effect exists, remember that it’s secondary to actual bristles scrubbing your teeth and gums.

Another thing that is meant to differentiate the more expensive models is various “cleaning modes” that vibrate the brush at different patterns or frequencies. These brushes also tend to move at a higher frequency, to the tune of 30,000 to 40,000 movements per minute, as opposed to a lower-end brush’s 8,000 to 20,000 movements per minute
.
 
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Mostly I have no issue with your post. All I did was clarify your statement that they are all the sames which across the spectrum they are not.

You did, but it's clear you didn't read all the way through.

However, sonic toothbrushes can produce a secondary effect described in a handful of studies involving fluid dynamics. Independent research does show that the fluid dynamics generated by a toothbrush moving at high frequency can “remove bacteria in vitro even at distances up to 4 mm beyond the tips of the bristles” (Stanford, 1997). The efficacy of this movement varied depending on the distance and time spent, and nothing will remove 100 percent of the bacteria/plaque all the time, but this is a significant, if secondary, effect generated by a “sonic” toothbrush.

The cavitation effect, as I explained earlier, does not exist as Philips claim it does. Studies have been done and posted in this thread in regard to it. Cavitation is the effect of fluid dynamics; being able to go in between teeth and clean. This does not happen. Philips shows this by often demo'ing their brush tip inside a glass of water. Saliva is inherently thicker than water and when combined with toothpaste, especially those containing SLS (which is 99.9% of the market), the fluid within the oral cavity becomes much thicker. No cavitation can occur. It would be like whipping up pancake batter into a fine foam; it won't work. Did you not read the quote from the study abstract I posted? It stated they found no proof that a Sonicare was capable of producing fluid dynamics in approximal surfaces to deep clean. And contrary to The Sweet Home or reviews of products, the plaque and gingivitis is monitored using special tools in these studies. Reviews do not. If a study states cavitation (fluid dynamics) doesn't work as the manufacturer touts, it does not work.

Straight from Wiki, the definition for approximal surfaces is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximal

In dentistry, the approximal surfaces are those surfaces which form points of contact between adjacent teeth. However, in diastemic individuals these surfaces may not make contact but are still considered approximal. Due to the topography of approximal sites the removal of plaque by brushing may be difficult and hence a significant build-up may occur increasing the risk of plaque-related diseases such as dental caries or gingivitis. It is recommended that teeth be professionally cleaned every six months, in part, to avoid this build-up and therefore maintain the health of the dentition and surrounding tissues.[1]

There are no independent studies I could find that compare toothbrush models or brands, and all the ones tested for the fluid dynamics aspect are Sonicare brushes, which are all 31,000 movements-per-minute brushes. Other brands have toothbrushes that move faster, slower, and at roughly the same speed as this. Though the fluid dynamics effect exists, remember that it’s secondary to actual bristles scrubbing your teeth and gums.

What the sweet home lacks is a understanding of what fluid dynamics does and how there's no study to prove Sonicare's claims. The Colgate A1500 is a sonic brush, operates faster than a Sonicare, and was still beat by an oscillation-pulsating brush.

Another thing that is meant to differentiate the more expensive models is various “cleaning modes” that vibrate the brush at different patterns or frequencies. These brushes also tend to move at a higher frequency, to the tune of 30,000 to 40,000 movements per minute, as opposed to a lower-end brush’s 8,000 to 20,000 movements per minute.

Except as stated, the stroke count for a sonic brush is half of the number stated. Left to right. Sonic brush stroke counts are just that, 1 stroke to one side counts as a stroke and is advertised as such. 2 strokes count as a full movement of the brush head. Oscillations are a complete turn to one side and a return to starting point. Furthermore, the oscillating figures are not true. They're mixing up oscillations and pulsations. Oscillations move around, pulsations move to head in all directions. In relative terms, this is what the sonic Colgate A1500 (operating at 32,500 strokes-per-minute) does, and an oscillating-pulsating brush bested the Colgate in a 12 week study. Providing a better job at cleaning. This has been proven in multiple studies. If a product that's performed better than the Sonicare (A1500() yet fails at an oscillating-pulsating brush, the results are clear.

In addition, in a seperate randomized trial using a sonic brush and a rotating-oscillating brush found that the rotating-oscillating brush performed better than a sonic brush during the 12 weeks, and resulted in a reduction of plaque, gingivitis an bleeding sites in individuals who were at the beginning, at risk.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19711610


The Colgate A1500 (Sonic, 32,500 strokes-per-minute) performs better than a Sonicare due to its speed and ability to move its head up and down when it detects a change in surface, was bested by an oscillating-pulsating toothbrush.

http://www.dentalcare.pl/media/pl_PL/research_db/pdf/JCD24.2_Klukowska_et_al.pdf

Furthermore, a several year study on the efficacy of brushes by the Cochrane Group found that out of all the various types of brushes, including sonic ones operating at Sonicare's advertised speeds, that oscillating brushes performed the best at plaque removal and gingivitis.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD002281.pub3/full

Secondly, gum health requires a Waterpik, no ifs, ands or buts. Manual flossing can't compete, especially not for the average person who does not do it right. And even if they do it right, the Waterpik pocket head is probably 10x effective flushing bacteria from the area between teeth versus trying to manually scrape it out. . :)

Not necessarily. You'd be hard pressed to find a dentist who'll recommend water flossing over regular flossing. Waterpiks may remove chunks of food, often not easily removed by flossing, but they're not capable of cleaning the entirety of a tooth's surface. The pressure exerted from the tip is not capable of stripping away all plaque. It is, however, capable of removing bits of food you missed while brushing and flossing. Food that may rot and increase chances of gingivitus, gum bleed (which is a result of the aforementioned), possible bad breath and a higher cavity risk, especially if a diet is rich in carbohydrates compared to fats and protein.

It is however recommended to brush, flush and use a Waterpik in conjunction, but it won't replace regular flossing. Furthermore, those with tight contacts won't benefit from a Waterpik. There's less room for food and plaque to settle. Waterpiks are great for people who've got space between their teeth or between the necks of their teeth; the free area between teeth where the gum line begins in some people.

Waterpiks would be more useful for people with noticeable gaps in their teeth, as they're at far higher risk for gingivitis and periodontal pockets.
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“remove bacteria in vitro even at distances up to 4 mm beyond the tips of the bristles” (Stanford, 1997). The efficacy of this movement varied depending on the distance and time spent, and nothing will remove 100 percent of the bacteria/plaque all the time, but this is a significant, if secondary, effect generated by a “sonic” toothbrush.
This study compared the Sonicare's results to nothing except itself.


Here's a test of similar toothbrushes. Sonicare FlexCare (which is a fantastic brush and one I'd use if I went back. Good price point to features ratio!) and an Oral B Triumph 9100 AKA Oral B Pro 5000.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...toothbrush/links/0deec5240971860333000000.pdf


The study compared both alongside with the participants own toothbrushes. They were required to abstain from flossing, irrigating and brushing for 24 hours prior to the study and each interval. This allows plaque to settle in quite thickly. 2 minutes of total brushing time were given. The study was repeated for three additional visits, allowing 2-5 days between visits, allowing the participants to resume their normal dental hygiene care. All subjects were again asked to abstain from their normal brushing, flossing and irrigating methods for 24 hours prior to each visit, so that plaque and bacteria would have settled thickly. By that, they wanted plaque to have encompassed the entirety of each tooth's surface.

Which, if you've ever gone camping and or forgotten to brush during a busy day, is very disgusting. At that point, you can see your teeth caked in plaque. Makes me heave just thinking about it. You're free to post your opinion on what you feel is best for yourself, but it doesn't refute any medical study done on sonic vs. oscillating and how sonic is bested nearly every time. There are 2-3 studies done in the 1990s and one in the early 2000s where a sonic brush did best an oscillating brush, however, when pressed about it, Phillips admitted to having funded the study and providing the participants.

As for Waterpiks, they're good for some people. I'm sure using a fancy polytetrafluoroethylene floss in its entirety would perform better than regular wax and unwaxed flosses, and those merely coated in teflon. Waterpiks have been around for a while and they're only now gaining more traction. I'll wait a few years before investing in one, because my current dental habits have been fine. Though they are something I'd look into when my children are a bit older and I can monitor their brushing without having to stand there or do it myself as we do now. Also, less risk of your child thinking they're funny and biting daddy or mommy's finger.

I do recall my dentist stating that if I ever did get one for myself, I could mix in some mouth rinse with it. Do you do this @Huntn? My favorite rinses are Act or Listerine Total.
 
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You did, but it's clear you didn't read all the way through.



The cavitation effect, as I explained earlier, does not exist as Philips claim it does. Studies have been done and posted in this thread in regard to it. Cavitation is the effect of fluid dynamics; being able to go in between teeth and clean. This does not happen. Philips shows this by often demo'ing their brush tip inside a glass of water. Saliva is inherently thicker than water and when combined with toothpaste, especially those containing SLS (which is 99.9% of the market), the fluid within the oral cavity becomes much thicker. No cavitation can occur. It would be like whipping up pancake batter into a fine foam; it won't work. Did you not read the quote from the study abstract I posted? It stated they found no proof that a Sonicare was capable of producing fluid dynamics in approximal surfaces to deep clean. And contrary to The Sweet Home or reviews of products, the plaque and gingivitis is monitored using special tools in these studies. Reviews do not. If a study states cavitation (fluid dynamics) doesn't work as the manufacturer touts, it does not work.

Straight from Wiki, the definition for approximal surfaces is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approximal





What the sweet home lacks is a understanding of what fluid dynamics does and how there's no study to prove Sonicare's claims. The Colgate A1500 is a sonic brush, operates faster than a Sonicare, and was still beat by an oscillation-pulsating brush.



Except as stated, the stroke count for a sonic brush is half of the number stated. Left to right. Sonic brush stroke counts are just that, 1 stroke to one side counts as a stroke and is advertised as such. 2 strokes count as a full movement of the brush head. Oscillations are a complete turn to one side and a return to starting point. Furthermore, the oscillating figures are not true. They're mixing up oscillations and pulsations. Oscillations move around, pulsations move to head in all directions. In relative terms, this is what the sonic Colgate A1500 (operating at 32,500 strokes-per-minute) does, and an oscillating-pulsating brush bested the Colgate in a 12 week study. Providing a better job at cleaning. This has been proven in multiple studies. If a product that's performed better than the Sonicare (A1500() yet fails at an oscillating-pulsating brush, the results are clear.

In addition, in a seperate randomized trial using a sonic brush and a rotating-oscillating brush found that the rotating-oscillating brush performed better than a sonic brush during the 12 weeks, and resulted in a reduction of plaque, gingivitis an bleeding sites in individuals who were at the beginning, at risk.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19711610


The Colgate A1500 (Sonic, 32,500 strokes-per-minute) performs better than a Sonicare due to its speed and ability to move its head up and down when it detects a change in surface, was bested by an oscillating-pulsating toothbrush.

http://www.dentalcare.pl/media/pl_PL/research_db/pdf/JCD24.2_Klukowska_et_al.pdf

Furthermore, a several year study on the efficacy of brushes by the Cochrane Group found that out of all the various types of brushes, including sonic ones operating at Sonicare's advertised speeds, that oscillating brushes performed the best at plaque removal and gingivitis.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD002281.pub3/full



Not necessarily. You'd be hard pressed to find a dentist who'll recommend water flossing over regular flossing. Waterpiks may remove chunks of food, often not easily removed by flossing, but they're not capable of cleaning the entirety of a tooth's surface. The pressure exerted from the tip is not capable of stripping away all plaque. It is, however, capable of removing bits of food you missed while brushing and flossing. Food that may rot and increase chances of gingivitus, gum bleed (which is a result of the aforementioned), possible bad breath and a higher cavity risk, especially if a diet is rich in carbohydrates compared to fats and protein.

It is however recommended to brush, flush and use a Waterpik in conjunction, but it won't replace regular flossing. Furthermore, those with tight contacts won't benefit from a Waterpik. There's less room for food and plaque to settle. Waterpiks are great for people who've got space between their teeth or between the necks of their teeth; the free area between teeth where the gum line begins in some people.

Waterpiks would be more useful for people with noticeable gaps in their teeth, as they're at far higher risk for gingivitis and periodontal pockets.
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This study compared the Sonicare's results to nothing except itself.


Here's a test of similar toothbrushes. Sonicare FlexCare (which is a fantastic brush and one I'd use if I went back. Good price point to features ratio!) and an Oral B Triumph 9100 AKA Oral B Pro 5000.

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...toothbrush/links/0deec5240971860333000000.pdf


The study compared both alongside with the participants own toothbrushes. They were required to abstain from flossing, irrigating and brushing for 24 hours prior to the study and each interval. This allows plaque to settle in quite thickly. 2 minutes of total brushing time were given. The study was repeated for three additional visits, allowing 2-5 days between visits, allowing the participants to resume their normal dental hygiene care. All subjects were again asked to abstain from their normal brushing, flossing and irrigating methods for 24 hours prior to each visit, so that plaque and bacteria would have settled thickly. By that, they wanted plaque to have encompassed the entirety of each tooth's surface.

Which, if you've ever gone camping and or forgotten to brush during a busy day, is very disgusting. At that point, you can see your teeth caked in plaque. Makes me heave just thinking about it. You're free to post your opinion on what you feel is best for yourself, but it doesn't refute any medical study done on sonic vs. oscillating and how sonic is bested nearly every time. There are 2-3 studies done in the 1990s and one in the early 2000s where a sonic brush did best an oscillating brush, however, when pressed about it, Phillips admitted to having funded the study and providing the participants.

As for Waterpiks, they're good for some people. I'm sure using a fancy polytetrafluoroethylene floss in its entirety would perform better than regular wax and unwaxed flosses, and those merely coated in teflon. Waterpiks have been around for a while and they're only now gaining more traction. I'll wait a few years before investing in one, because my current dental habits have been fine. Though they are something I'd look into when my children are a bit older and I can monitor their brushing without having to stand there or do it myself as we do now. Also, less risk of your child thinking they're funny and biting daddy or mommy's finger.

I do recall my dentist stating that if I ever did get one for myself, I could mix in some mouth rinse with it. Do you do this @Huntn? My favorite rinses are Act or Listerine Total.

I recently started using a 50/50 solution of an antiseptic mouthwash and water in my Waterpik. It seems to work well. After I finish, I run water through it. I use the Target brand equivalent of Listerine Total to gargle with.

FYI, I disagree with the statement that the Waterpik does not replace regular flossing. My observation is that most people do not take the time to floss properly. My experience is that I've not used regular floss on my teeth since adopting the waterpik, and my gums are in the best shape of the last two decades, confirmed by my dentist, who does not actively push waterpiks on her customers. :)
 
I recently started using a 50/50 solution of an antiseptic mouthwash and water in my Waterpik. It seems to work well. After I finish, I run water through it. I use the Target brand equivalent of Listerine Total to gargle with.
What? When did you last buy it? We began using that a few years ago after initially trying Listerine Total and finding it too sweet. Years ago we used to use another Listerine rinse but stopped on the account of disgusted by how sweet the rinse was. We tried Target's take on it and liked it because it was less sweet and more minty. Unfortunately, the last few times we've gone to pick up household goods we couldn't find it. I just checked and it looks like they're carrying it again, presuming you're talking about the Up and Up brand?
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FYI, I disagree with the statement that the Waterpik does not replace regular flossing. My observation is that most people do not take the time to floss properly. My experience is that I've not used regular floss on my teeth since adopting the waterpik, and my gums are in the best shape of the last two decades, confirmed by my dentist, who does not actively push waterpiks on her customers. :)

That's not what I said. I said proper flossing would not benefit from being dropped and waterpik'ing to be taken up. To be frank, many people do not know how to floss correctly, and believe you just stick the stuff in between teeth and slide it up and down, never taken it below the neck line of the tooth. The tape floss stuff is good, though. Cleans well and doesn't pinch. Waterpik used to have a Rotadent like toothbrush in the mid 90s that was darn cool if you couldn't find a Rotadent or import one, but also didn't want a Sonicare or Braun. It was cheaper and the heads were cheap, too. In fact, Waterpik spent a lot of money in those days to get their products in film and television. When you think of water flossing, you think of that brand, nothing else.
 
What? When did you last buy it? We began using that a few years ago after initially trying Listerine Total and finding it too sweet. Years ago we used to use another Listerine rinse but stopped on the account of disgusted by how sweet the rinse was. We tried Target's take on it and liked it because it was less sweet and more minty. Unfortunately, the last few times we've gone to pick up household goods we couldn't find it. I just checked and it looks like they're carrying it again, presuming you're talking about the Up and Up brand?
[doublepost=1490059699][/doublepost]

That's not what I said. I said proper flossing would not benefit from being dropped and waterpik'ing to be taken up. To be frank, many people do not know how to floss correctly, and believe you just stick the stuff in between teeth and slide it up and down, never taken it below the neck line of the tooth. The tape floss stuff is good, though. Cleans well and doesn't pinch. Waterpik used to have a Rotadent like toothbrush in the mid 90s that was darn cool if you couldn't find a Rotadent or import one, but also didn't want a Sonicare or Braun. It was cheaper and the heads were cheap, too. In fact, Waterpik spent a lot of money in those days to get their products in film and television. When you think of water flossing, you think of that brand, nothing else.

The Target brand is called Anticavity Mouthwash. It looks identical to Listerine Total Care, or close. I'm currently using it to gargle . Don't find it too sweet. For water flossing, the 50-50 mix, I'm using a Costco brand (Kirkland) Anticeptic Mouthwash. (It's less expensive).

My comparison of flossing to a water flush product is that the water product is much more effective, with much less effort. This is important for average users who don't floss properly. I know from my own experience that I was inconsistent with flossing and used to have a persistent issue with gum bleeding at a particular tooth. With water flossing, that problem is completely gone and my tooth pocket depth has improved.
 
Been using a Sonicare for over 10+ years. When mine broke, I bought another one. I haven't had a cavity in over a decade.
 
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