Do you want/have children?

[wrldwzrd89]

Speaking for myself? Because they're awesome.



I can truthfully say I have never had an orgasm where even the thought of procreation entered into it.

Recreation? Oh yes.

You think so? I'm glad you do... because my fear of intimacy has kept me away from that sort of thing, recreational or not. I'm one of those people that won't let anyone get too close to me, metaphorically speaking.

 

[skunk]

need to get off their self riotous horses and get there head out of there asses

Perhaps they should mate their self-riotous horses with their asses and have themselves a pack of self riotous mules.

 

[arkitect]

You think so? I'm glad you do... because my fear of intimacy has kept me away from that sort of thing, recreational or not. I'm one of those people that won't let anyone get too close to me, metaphorically speaking.

My condolences.
You really should try it someday.

Mind you, you could "practice" by yourself surely?

 

[0098386]

Oh really? Please do tell. This should be interesting.

Well, without it we wouldn't be here. But as EricNau said it's not something we're forced into (most of the time).

I also find it quite funny that apparently, by doing something charitable we're also completely selfish. I've had a great time on this planet so far and I can't wait to have kids and show them this big wide world, to look after them in their young years and have them look after me as I get older. To do what our bodies were developed to do (assuming me and my girlfriend are able to have kids).

Just as when we used to have dogs. They needed a home and we could provide a home and showed them all a good life, which in turn was our reward.

And maybe I'm different but I work for the friendships I form, for the satisfaction of doing a good job, for the feeling of being alive compared to being sat at home all day. Even the money I make is going towards paying off my student loans and saving up for a place for me and my girlfriend, it's not like I'm a super selfish person who works only to buy the latest electronics and clothes and such.
Just seems that some people are judging others by their own standards. Note: Doing something good doesn't always mean your selfish

 

[arkitect]

On the contrary, people should have to be licensed to have kids.

Excellent idea.
At the very least pass an exam…

Far too many amateurs going at it.

 

[Gasu E.]

Deeply unkind remark.



My opinions are based on the environment and those that intuited that are correct. I stand by the selfishness remark. How many millions of children die each year from curable diseases or who end up in terribly underfunded institutions. Their emotional and educational development retarded? Further, the animal kingdom and their habitations are being destroyed and many species have been lost and thousands are in danger. When the human population is so vast that you lose megafauna just about everywhere on your continent I think it's safe to say that you have a problem. The world is in crisis due to our demands upon resources and this has to be reduced. Along with technology, I suggest responsible population control. (Through deliberation and discussion of the implications and not through forced sterilisation or a breeding police.)

As for first worlders not taking greater resources I find this so counter to actuality, fact and good sense I cannot believe anyone could be so daft as to think it true.

I've clearly upset a few people here and it wasn't my intention. However, it is true that we have a definitive amount of space and resources and they are being consumed at a great rate. At what point people start to have the same concerns will be different for everyone. 10 billion? 100 billion? My alarm bells are ringing loud and clear. I am certain that with an unfettered population growth you will eventually agree with me. The planet and the dominant economic model cannot sustain us for ever. "Clean up the air and treat the animals fair" as the great Captain Beefheart used to sing is the note I'll end on.

You have some good points about overpopulation, but your conclusions regarding prescriptive behavior are flawed. I agree, if one is a worthless slug with no values, better not to create more of the same. In fact, suicide might be the most socially conscious act. But if you do have some desire to address the problems of the world, there is no better way than to do it through helping to create a better future citizen. If you feel so strongly against procreating yourself, go help some other, underprivileged children. You may say "I'm not doing anything, but at least I'm not contributing to the problem"; but you are, just by your own non-negative consumption, you are making things worse for all the other residents of the earth, without making any investment in improvement for the future. If you feel so strongly about this, I don't see how in good conscience you can continue to do nothing.

 

[EricNau]

Because it feels great.

Speaking for myself? Because they're awesome.

It's a direct result of natural selection. Back in primitive times, those who were most sensitive to the sensation would be more likely to have sex, and therefore children, thus passing on their own genes. Those who didn't share the same sensitivity were less likely to have kids, and consequently, their genes died out.

 

[arkitect]

It's a direct result of natural selection. Back in primitive times, those who were most sensitive to the sensation would be more likely to have sex, and therefore children, thus passing on their own genes. Those who didn't share the same sensitivity were less likely to have kids, and consequently, their genes died out.

*Slaps forehead*
Oh is that what they're for?

I'd never have guessed.

 

[dukebound85]

On the contrary, people should have to be licensed to have kids.

that is one slippery slope for human rights/totalitarian gov't is it not?

 

[leekohler]

Well, without it we wouldn't be here. But as EricNau said it's not something we're forced into (most of the time).

I also find it quite funny that apparently, by doing something charitable we're also completely selfish. I've had a great time on this planet so far and I can't wait to have kids and show them this big wide world, to look after them in their young years and have them look after me as I get older. To do what our bodies were developed to do (assuming me and my girlfriend are able to have kids).

Just as when we used to have dogs. They needed a home and we could provide a home and showed them all a good life, which in turn was our reward.

And maybe I'm different but I work for the friendships I form, for the satisfaction of doing a good job, for the feeling of being alive compared to being sat at home all day. Even the money I make is going towards paying off my student loans and saving up for a place for me and my girlfriend, it's not like I'm a super selfish person who works only to buy the latest electronics and clothes and such.
Just seems that some people are judging others by their own standards. Note: Doing something good doesn't always mean your selfish

Of course- but don't have kids with the assumption they'll take care of you when you're old. It's certainly not a given. I know lots of folks who've outlived their kids, and others whose kids absolutely hate them. Plan on taking care of yourself, and if your kids are there too, well that's a great plus.

that is one slippery slope for human rights/totalitarian gov't is it not?

I don't know. Could be, but a bit more regulation sure wouldn't hurt, given what we're seeing right now.

 

[0098386]

THEY CHOSE that life

it's not your fault -- and you shouldn't have it held over your head

people who believe they are doing the world and their childresn some great justice by having them need to get off their self riotous horses and get there head out of there asses

They chose not to be selfish by having less money to spend on themselves, less time to themselves. Very selfless if you ask me. We were all planned too, my folks lived out 10 years of marriage before they decided to have kids.
And I don't have it held over my head. They never hinted at what other life they might have had. It's all down to me wondering, considering my fathers job and what he has materially achieved whilst having 3 kids.

Of course- but don't have kids with the assumption they'll take care of you when you're old. It's certainly not a given. I know lots of folks who've outlived their kids, and others whose kids absolutely hate them. Plan on taking care of yourself, and if your kids are there too, well that's a great plus.

Absolutely. But if mine and my girlfriends children end up like us then we'll be okay, since we both come from very family oriented families (that sounds broke ). But even if they end up the opposite and want to leave home ASAP then that's a few years back to us.

 

[PowerFullMac]

Technically, there is no such thing as a non-selfish act.

 

[dukebound85]

oh i know and i agree with you somewhat too

there are so many kids born to parents that cant provide to them

how is that fair for them? i think parents should at least have to meet a certain set of criteria in a sense (parents working, not in law trouble etc)

but then i ask, well what are you going to do to enforce it? fine them and if so how do you collect if they are already poor/not working? make taxpayers have to raise the kids through social programs? neuter and spade people.....? lol i dunno

 

[dukebound85]

Technically, there is no such thing as a non-selfish act.

um yes there is

i know i would give my life for my future wife/child without hesitation if i had to. thats one example for you..

 

[leekohler]

oh i know and i agree with you somewhat too

there are so many kids born to parents that cant provide to them

how is that fair for them? i think parents should at least have to meet a certain set of criteria in a sense (parents working, not in law trouble etc)

but then i ask, well what are you going to do to enforce it? fine them and if so how do you collect if they are already poor/not working? make taxpayers have to raise the kids through social programs? neuter and spade people.....? lol i dunno

We already make taxpayers pay for unwanted, neglected and abused kids. As far as neutering goes, don't know if I'd go that far. But we could require that all pregnant women/couples attend a minimum amount of parenting classes and pass them.

 

[Gasu E.]

people who believe they are doing the world and their childresn some great justice by having them need to get off their self riotous horses and get there head out of there asses

Of course, the bottom line is that your sub-species is going to die out within one generation. So eventually, your argument shall be moot. Enjoy it while you can, Homo cucullatus.

 

[dukebound85]

We already make taxpayers pay for unwanted, neglected and abused kids. As far as neutering goes, don't know if I'd go that far. But we could require that all pregnant women/couples attend a minimum amount of parenting classes and pass them.

lol i wouldnt go that far either. i persoanlly dont think our govt has the resources for this type of program in a sense

 

[skunk]

Deeply unkind remark.

Agreed.

Along with technology, I suggest responsible population control.

This makes a lot of sense.

I've clearly upset a few people here and it wasn't my intention. However, it is true that we have a definitive amount of space and resources and they are being consumed at a great rate. At what point people start to have the same concerns will be different for everyone. 10 billion? 100 billion? My alarm bells are ringing loud and clear. I am certain that with an unfettered population growth you will eventually agree with me. The planet and the dominant economic model cannot sustain us for ever. "Clean up the air and treat the animals fair" as the great Captain Beefheart used to sing is the note I'll end on.

I wouldn't worry about upsetting people. This is a debate, not a hand-holding session. Besides, anyone who finishes with a quotation from the great Don Van Vliet is OK with me.

It's one of the least selfish things you can do. In fact, at times, it's quite selfless.

At times, maybe, but a lot of the time it is motivated by vanity and a desire for personal immortality. Face it, the world can probably get by without our personal contribution to the future gene pool.

However, it's my right of nature to reproduce.

I find this a bizarre claim. What on earth is a "right of nature" when it's at home? Is it also a "right of nature" for a species knowingly to so dominate the ecosystem that other species are driven to extinction?

I am not interested in having children, for several reasons:
I am still, to some extent, afraid of intimacy
I do not think I would make a good parent
I have traits I'd rather not pass on

The first you will probably get over, given the right partner, and the second and third are probably the best qualifications for a parent.

 

[echeck]

THEY CHOSE that life

it's not your fault -- and you shouldn't have it held over your head

people who believe they are doing the world and their childresn some great justice by having them need to get off their self riotous horses and get there head out of there asses

So much anger.

We all have our opinions on the matter, which is why we're here discussing them. You're entitled to an opinion just as everyone else, but let's not name-call, shall we?

I've had more than my share of difficulties in my life, but I'm not bitter about it. I guess that's the difference. I make a conscious choice to learn and grow from my hardships rather than simply become angry and bitter.

In regards to it being "my choice" to bring a child in to this world, you're absolutely correct in that I control the time. But as far as it being a selfish act that was dictated by my desires I will have to disagree with you. I have my own beliefs about life and death, but this isn't the place to get in to that.

What I will say is that I love my son more than life itself, and he loves my wife and I as well. He will have hardship in his life, just as we all do, but it's my job to raise him to be the best person he can be so as to better handle these situations later on in life.

I will do all I can to make my son ultimately happy, and not be bitter or angry at life.

Happiness is what makes the world go 'round, well that and gravitational pull, but mainly happiness!

 

[Gasu E.]

Perhaps they should mate their self-riotous horses with their asses and have themselves a pack of self riotous mules.

Not likely. However riotous, mules are sterile.

 

[leekohler]

lol i wouldnt go that far either. i persoanlly dont think our govt has the resources for this type of program in a sense

Sure we do. You would just integrate it into the public school system. It could be a night class. It's not that far-fetched or impossible. We certainly have proven that we don't have the ability to deal with these kids when they grow up. How about a little prevention for a change?

 

[skunk]

Not likely. However riotous, mules are sterile.

That is why I suggest mating horses with asses to produce them...

 

[echeck]

Sure we do. You would just integrate it into the public school system. It could be a night class. It's not that far-fetched or impossible. We certainly have proven that we don't have the ability to deal with these kids when they grow up. How about a little prevention for a change?

To take this one step further, what happens to the child if someone is already pregnant and hasn't taken and/or doesn't pass the test?

I have a feeling reaction to this question might cause this thread to be either moved or closed.

 

[leekohler]

To take this one step further, what happens to the child if someone is already pregnant and hasn't taken and/or doesn't pass the test?

I have a feeling reaction to this question might cause this thread to be either moved or closed.

Fines until you do. Best motivation there is. You hit people in the wallet and they respond pretty fast. But look, we're not talking the Bar exam here.

 

[dukebound85]

Fines until you do. Best motivation there is. You hit people in the wallet and they respond pretty fast.

but how do you collect from people who dont have money?