Dock Connector to be Removed in iPhone 5

[SomeDudeAsking]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I'd say based on your posts that you have been doing this for at least a page.

Do you or do you not own and regularly use a Dock Connector based device on a regular basis? I would say the validity of your complaints and ferocious defence of the micro-USB model depends on this.

Hey, dude, what am I doing now?

And you don't have any valid arguments unless you post from a BlackBerry.

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

Whilst I completely agree that there should be standardisation in charging connectors, I'd assume the Dock connector will be around for a long while yet, simply because:

• Can I get a clean line-level analogue stereo output from a Micro USB?
• Can I get analogue 1080p HD component video or 480i composite video output from a Micro USB?
• How would my in-car FM transmitter work without a line-level audio output.
• In my office of 60 people, 40-odd have a Dock-to-USB lead stuffed in their bags or hooked up to their PCs. None have a Micro USB lead.

And, as has been mentioned, the Dock connector is designed for docking. The Micro USB connector is not.

Micro USB plus a Mini Display Port would just about cover the functionality of the dock connector. However, you'd then have two mechanical/electrical interfaces, and MiniDP would make the video cables more complex (requiring intelligence to configure the MiniDP output for the required output signal).

Just to repeat - a standard would be great. But Micro USB is not a functional equivalent of the dock connector. You could not replace the dock connector with Micro USB without losing features -- they're just not designed for the same purpose.

You can do all that. MicroUSB essentially has all the capabilities of regular USB, just the port is shrunk. You can run display signals over microUSB, no need for a separate port.

 

[Rajani Isa]

Move away from the Apple stuff......

Oh, and replying to posts from others constitutes a "double post" now? Really? Maybe I should just shut up.

Yes, but not because your serial postings were incorrectly labeled a double-post.

And you are just too lazy to research up those pics showing the comparisons to support your biases.

You are trying to change minds - therefor, the onus probandi like upon you, not us.

Hey, dude, what am I doing now?

Posting for the sake of arguing. And not just "now" but most if not all of this thread.

 

[displaced]

You can do all that. MicroUSB essentially has all the capabilities of regular USB, just the port is shrunk. You can run display signals over microUSB, no need for a separate port.

Cool. I didn't know you can do analogue video signals over Micro USB.

Not that I'm nay-saying, but do you have any link to this, since I've never heard of analogue over USB. Particularly since USB has only two physical signal lines (all you need for serial comms). I'm intrigued as to how you'd get component video which requires three signals (plus 3 grounds = 6 conductors) for luminance, red-difference and blue-difference).

Also, you didn't answer the part about analogue line-level audio output, which is a must-have for many, many uses. This alone requires four conductors (L+, L-; R+, R-). Note that the headphone socket is not a replacement for line-level output. Line out provides the signal before it's run through any additional amplification, guaranteeing no distortion when later amplified (e.g. by a car stereo or speaker system).

 

[Lukeyy19]

first of all, people are taking this whole thing the wrong way, this has been standardised since 2009, it's the charger not the cable that this whole thing relates to, the regulations say that phone manufacturers should provide a cable for a USB charger, so that all you need to carry with you is your phones specific cable to usb, rather than the whole mains adapter, it does not standardise the connection to the phone. and i know most new tech i buy has already started to go down this route, Apple have done for years.

Apple will Continue to use the Dock Connector

a MicroUSB Connector is about 40% as wide as an Apple Dock Connector but only provides less than 16.67% of the functionality

Micro USB Connection List:

1. +5 V
2. USB Data −
3. USB Data +
4. Signal Ground
5. Signal Ground

Apple Dock Connection List:

1. Ground (-)
2. Audio and Video ground (-)
3. Line Out - R (+) (Audio output, right channel)
4. Line Out - L(+) (Audio output, left channel)
5. Line In - R (+)
6. Line In - L (+)
7. unknown
8. Composite video output
9. S-Video Chrominance output
10. S-Video Luminance output
11. Serial GND
12. ipod sending line, Serial TxD
13. ipod receiving line, Serial RxD
14. NC
15. Ground (-)
16. USB GND (-)
17. NC
18. 3.3V Power (+) Stepped up to provide +5V DC to USB on iPod Camera Connector.
19. +12V Firewire Power 12V DC
20. +12V Firewire Power 12V DC
21. Accessory Indicator/Serial enable
22. FireWire Data TPA (-)
23. USB Power 5 VDC (+)
24. FireWire Data TPA (+)
25. USB Data (-)
26. FireWire Data TPB (-)
27. USB Data (+)
28. FireWire Data TPB (+)
29. FireWire Ground
30. FireWire Ground

now how do you suppose all of those are able to be done with MicroUSB, while also being able to securely hold a device in a dock, oh wait i know if we added 25 extra pins to it and made it it a bit wider, that would work...

 

[displaced]

first of all, people are taking this whole thing the wrong way, this has been standardised since 2009, it's the charger not the cable that this whole thing relates to, the regulations say that phone manufacturers should provide a cable for a USB charger, so that all you need to carry with you is your phones specific cable to usb, rather than the whole mains adapter, it does not standardise the connection to the phone. and i know most new tech i buy has already started to go down this route, Apple have done for years.

Apple will Continue to use the Dock Connector

a MicroUSB Connector is about 40% as wide as an Apple Dock Connector but only provides less than 16.67% of the functionality

<snip>

Exactly. And I'm still highly curious about how to get analogue line-level audio output, mic-level audio input and analogue component or composite video-out via the USB protocol. Not sure what'd happen if we all tried piping a USB data protocol stream into our speakers. Not an awful lot, I'd imagine

 

[NCUSA]

Interesting..

 

[Small White Car]

Exactly. And I'm still highly curious about how to get analogue line-level audio output, mic-level audio input and analogue component or composite video-out via the USB protocol. Not sure what'd happen if we all tried piping a USB data protocol stream into our speakers. Not an awful lot, I'd imagine

But you see, the OP doesn't care that the dock connector DOES MORE than USB.

He just cares that it's big and old. (If I'm reading this thread correctly.) But sure, who cares about features. Cut 'em out so it'll be smaller! I guess that is the Apple mentality. They'll probably listen to this guy.

a MicroUSB Connector is about 40% as wide as an Apple Dock Connector but only provides less than 16.67% of the functionality

Now see, what's interesting about your list is I DO see a few items that could be cut now. I wonder if Apple will soon move from their 25-pin dock to a 20-pin dock, just because they can. Yeah, it'll break backwards compatibility, but they're known for doing such things.

I'm not in favor of that move, but I think it's a heck of a lot more likely than micro-USB.

 

[Lukeyy19]

But you see, the OP doesn't care that the dock connector DOES MORE than USB.

He just cares that it's big and old. (If I'm reading this thread correctly.) But sure, who cares about features. Cut 'em out so it'll be smaller! I guess that is the Apple mentality. They'll probably listen to this guy.

lol, why not make a whole new connector with just one pin, then it'll be even smaller!

Now see, what's interesting about your list is I DO see a few items that could be cut now. I wonder if Apple will soon move from their 25-pin dock to a 20-pin dock, just because they can. Yeah, it'll break backwards compatibility, but they're known for doing such things.

I'm not in favor of that move, but I think it's a heck of a lot more likely than micro-USB.

yes, i agree a lot of the stuff is unnecessary, and i even think since that list was posted where i found it, pins have been changed to do other things, while new devices have come out, i see this as more likely, they will make a redundant pin into something else, i cant see them changing the size or shape of the connector though.

 

[RenoG]

Interesting..

Also I can't ever remember seeing one of these ever hooked up to any speakers or a car stereo, hmmm interesting for sure.

 

[Infraggable Kru]

first of all, people are taking this whole thing the wrong way, this has been standardised since 2009, it's the charger not the cable that this whole thing relates to, the regulations say that phone manufacturers should provide a cable for a USB charger, so that all you need to carry with you is your phones specific cable to usb, rather than the whole mains adapter, it does not standardise the connection to the phone. and i know most new tech i buy has already started to go down this route, Apple have done for years.

Apple will Continue to use the Dock Connector

a MicroUSB Connector is about 40% as wide as an Apple Dock Connector but only provides less than 16.67% of the functionality

Micro USB Connection List:

1. +5 V
2. USB Data −
3. USB Data +
4. Signal Ground
5. Signal Ground

Apple Dock Connection List:

1. Ground (-)
2. Audio and Video ground (-)
3. Line Out - R (+) (Audio output, right channel)
4. Line Out - L(+) (Audio output, left channel)
5. Line In - R (+)
6. Line In - L (+)
7. unknown
8. Composite video output
9. S-Video Chrominance output
10. S-Video Luminance output
11. Serial GND
12. ipod sending line, Serial TxD
13. ipod receiving line, Serial RxD
14. NC
15. Ground (-)
16. USB GND (-)
17. NC
18. 3.3V Power (+) Stepped up to provide +5V DC to USB on iPod Camera Connector.
19. +12V Firewire Power 12V DC
20. +12V Firewire Power 12V DC
21. Accessory Indicator/Serial enable
22. FireWire Data TPA (-)
23. USB Power 5 VDC (+)
24. FireWire Data TPA (+)
25. USB Data (-)
26. FireWire Data TPB (-)
27. USB Data (+)
28. FireWire Data TPB (+)
29. FireWire Ground
30. FireWire Ground

now how do you suppose all of those are able to be done with MicroUSB, while also being able to securely hold a device in a dock, oh wait i know if we added 25 extra pins to it and made it it a bit wider, that would work...

well that shut him up

Btw very nice post, I'm a big fan of anyone who takes the time to search and post technical data vs unsupported assumptions

 

[iUser4Lyfe]

first of all, people are taking this whole thing the wrong way, this has been standardised since 2009, it's the charger not the cable that this whole thing relates to, the regulations say that phone manufacturers should provide a cable for a USB charger, so that all you need to carry with you is your phones specific cable to usb, rather than the whole mains adapter, it does not standardise the connection to the phone. and i know most new tech i buy has already started to go down this route, Apple have done for years.

Apple will Continue to use the Dock Connector

a MicroUSB Connector is about 40% as wide as an Apple Dock Connector but only provides less than 16.67% of the functionality

Micro USB Connection List:

1. +5 V
2. USB Data −
3. USB Data +
4. Signal Ground
5. Signal Ground

Apple Dock Connection List:

1. Ground (-)
2. Audio and Video ground (-)
3. Line Out - R (+) (Audio output, right channel)
4. Line Out - L(+) (Audio output, left channel)
5. Line In - R (+)
6. Line In - L (+)
7. unknown
8. Composite video output
9. S-Video Chrominance output
10. S-Video Luminance output
11. Serial GND
12. ipod sending line, Serial TxD
13. ipod receiving line, Serial RxD
14. NC
15. Ground (-)
16. USB GND (-)
17. NC
18. 3.3V Power (+) Stepped up to provide +5V DC to USB on iPod Camera Connector.
19. +12V Firewire Power 12V DC
20. +12V Firewire Power 12V DC
21. Accessory Indicator/Serial enable
22. FireWire Data TPA (-)
23. USB Power 5 VDC (+)
24. FireWire Data TPA (+)
25. USB Data (-)
26. FireWire Data TPB (-)
27. USB Data (+)
28. FireWire Data TPB (+)
29. FireWire Ground
30. FireWire Ground

now how do you suppose all of those are able to be done with MicroUSB, while also being able to securely hold a device in a dock, oh wait i know if we added 25 extra pins to it and made it it a bit wider, that would work...

Great post. Never realized all the features the dock itself holds.

 

[HarryKeogh]

Great post. Never realized all the features the dock itself holds.

Ditto.

thanks Luke.

 

[SomeDudeAsking]

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I didn't shut up, I went to sleep.

You can replicate all the dock connector functionality over micro USB just like you have to buy a separate Apple cable for each of those functions you guys are harping about. You do realize that every one if those functions exists as binary data within the iPhone itself right? The iPhone is not analogue, that's why you have a/d converters and need special cables just to get a tv out signal from it.

I hope you guys have learned an important lesson.

 

[jfyrfytr25]

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I hope you guys have learned an important lesson.

We have!!!!! Next time skip right past your threads..............

 

[Small White Car]

You can replicate all the dock connector functionality over micro USB just like you have to buy a separate Apple cable for each of those functions you guys are harping about.

You do realize that this would make a great many iPhone accesories much more expensive, right? No longer could you buy cheaper add-ons that just use the analog outputs. Nope, from now on every accesory will be forced to have a computer chip in it and will require some form of power to run.

So we would lose out on a lot and gain...what...a slightly smaller connector? Why is that so important that you're willing to give up so much for it?

 

[Mlrollin91]

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I didn't shut up, I went to sleep.

You can replicate all the dock connector functionality over micro USB just like you have to buy a separate Apple cable for each of those functions you guys are harping about. You do realize that every one if those functions exists as binary data within the iPhone itself right? The iPhone is not analogue, that's why you have a/d converters and need special cables just to get a tv out signal from it.

I hope you guys have learned an important lesson.

Actually no, all you need to do is buy a universal dock or a composite/component set and 95% of those functions will work.

Nothing that I own uses a micro/mini usb port BUT an Apple TV and I will probably NEVER use it unless I decide to jailbreak it, but that seems pointless to me.

Yes the dock connector is larger than the Micro/Mini usb, but at the same time its not THAT big. Its not even the width of a finger. Its not the end of the world and like my first post said it has become the norm, everything and all accessories for all iPhone's, iPod's, iPad's use the 30-pin dock connector. Millions of car owners have had radio decks installed into their car to use the 30-pin connector. it is not going anywhere anytime soon. Millions and millions of customers would then have to go buy adapters to switch over from Micro/Mini to 30-pin and then everyone would be out extra money to purchase said adapter.

Everyone now knows that you HATE the 30-pin, but your reasons aren't entirely valid. Yes its bigger, yes its not the same cable among all devices, but its also not 20-30 dollars for a new cable. I bought 10 on eBay for 8 bucks, I mean come on, thats cheaper than your so called 1 dollar USB cable.

You are trying to pick a fight with everyone on the board just because they don't have the same opinion as you, and I doubt anyone will. Try to relax and take it down a notch. You can't criticize others because they don't agree with you.

 

[MattZani]

Just because the phone has to be compatible with Micro USB doesn't mean the iPhone will have one, Apple are far more likely to just include an adaptor.

Also, Micro USB is ugly.

 

[walie]

Just because the phone has to be compatible with Micro USB doesn't mean the iPhone will have one, Apple are far more likely to just include an adaptor.

Also, Micro USB is ugly.

And the dock connector is beautiful?

 

[Mlrollin91]

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Just because the phone has to be compatible with Micro USB doesn't mean the iPhone will have one, Apple are far more likely to just include an adaptor.

Also, Micro USB is ugly.

And the dock connector is beautiful?

Not really. But it just fits. It's what everyone is use to.

 

[vant]

first of all, people are taking this whole thing the wrong way, this has been standardised since 2009, it's the charger not the cable that this whole thing relates to, the regulations say that phone manufacturers should provide a cable for a USB charger, so that all you need to carry with you is your phones specific cable to usb, rather than the whole mains adapter, it does not standardise the connection to the phone. and i know most new tech i buy has already started to go down this route, Apple have done for years.

Apple will Continue to use the Dock Connector

a MicroUSB Connector is about 40% as wide as an Apple Dock Connector but only provides less than 16.67% of the functionality

Micro USB Connection List:

1. +5 V
2. USB Data −
3. USB Data +
4. Signal Ground
5. Signal Ground

Apple Dock Connection List:

1. Ground (-)
2. Audio and Video ground (-)
3. Line Out - R (+) (Audio output, right channel)
4. Line Out - L(+) (Audio output, left channel)
5. Line In - R (+)
6. Line In - L (+)
7. unknown
8. Composite video output
9. S-Video Chrominance output
10. S-Video Luminance output
11. Serial GND
12. ipod sending line, Serial TxD
13. ipod receiving line, Serial RxD
14. NC
15. Ground (-)
16. USB GND (-)
17. NC
18. 3.3V Power (+) Stepped up to provide +5V DC to USB on iPod Camera Connector.
19. +12V Firewire Power 12V DC
20. +12V Firewire Power 12V DC
21. Accessory Indicator/Serial enable
22. FireWire Data TPA (-)
23. USB Power 5 VDC (+)
24. FireWire Data TPA (+)
25. USB Data (-)
26. FireWire Data TPB (-)
27. USB Data (+)
28. FireWire Data TPB (+)
29. FireWire Ground
30. FireWire Ground

now how do you suppose all of those are able to be done with MicroUSB, while also being able to securely hold a device in a dock, oh wait i know if we added 25 extra pins to it and made it it a bit wider, that would work...

Owned.

Why is he still posting? Oh right, hes a troll.

 

[uiop.]

I didn't shut up, I went to sleep.

Well you don't seem to be making too many friends in this thread. Its obvious you made it with the desire to start a debate. With that said, I personally will PayPal you $30 (30, representing the number of connections Apple's dock supports) if Apple's next iPhone doesn't have a dock connector.

 

[ucfgrad93]

We have!!!!! Next time skip right past your threads..............

Bingo! We have a winner!

 

[Fernandez21]

Thought I'd chime in here. I'm not an apple fan by any means, only apple products I've ever owned are iPhones and I don't see that changing anytime soon, and I much prefer the apple connector.

I have 2 phone that use micro USB, a moto razr 2 v9x and palm pre plus, and pluggin in that connector is such a pain (main reason I bought a touchstone for my pre so I wouldn't have worry about that stupid plug), I always have to look and make sure the curved end is on the right side and that Im pluggin it in strait, if I'm coming in at even a slight angle it won't go in, I would prefer a mini USB over the micro. But the apple connector I don't even think about or need to look at the port or connector, it's much easier to just plug in blindly.

I also only have 1 micro USB cable (the one that came with my pre 2) while I have several dock connectors (one that came with my iPhone 3G, my wifes 3G, her 3GS, my iPhone 4, one I bought with component out, and my wifes car stereo that came with one), so if the new one doesn't have the doc connector then I would have to get a new cable for component out, a new one for my wifes car stereo, and my alarm radio would be useless as it has the dock connector built in for charging my iPhone and playing sound.

Maybe you only have one apple connector and a crap load on micro usb's, but there are those of us in the oppsite spectrum with lots of doc connectors and very little micro USB cables and devices.

 

[kuebby]

One of the benefits of the dock connector is docking. It can support an iPhone upright on it's own without a cradle. I would know, I set it on my dual iLuv every night. A microusb would suffer more strain.

A very good point, on my Sounddock I can take off the adapter and just use it with the dock connector holding up the iPod/iPhone.

That's interesting because I have ZERO devices that work with micro-usb.

Very true, I don't have a single micro-USB cable, and only a few mini-USB for external hard drives and PS3 controllers, but that's it; and compared to the plethora of dock connector accessories I have... let's see... probably 8 DC to USB cables, Bose Sounddock, Logitech Pure-Fi, brand new Kenwood car stereo, plus some accessories from older iPods like the camera connector and a Belkin iTalk.

Personally I would be 100% against moving away from the dock connector.