Oh there's some wonderful logic.
Just because a company can afford your dishonesty does not make it right, not even a little. Agreed.
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Does Apple check if you are a college student?(online)
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Oh there's some wonderful logic.
Just because a company can afford your dishonesty does not make it right, not even a little. Agreed.
I purchased a MBP in store using a military discount and they asked to see my military ID. If it's in store it might vary depending on the store rep. I remember purchasing another MBP while I was in school and I purchased Photoshop CS3 along with it from the online store. I don't remember exactly what it was for but I had to scan my school ID and send it in after the purchase. I'm thinking it was for photoshop because I received that at a pretty hefty education discount.
Nonsense. This loophole has been around for at least 20 months and never patched. I would say Apple don't really care much about a consumer saving $100-200 when they're making one of the biggest profit margins out of all OEMs. For every "$200 lost" they may have gained a sale from someone who wouldn't have paid the normal price.
I'll use myself as an example, although I am a student so it is kinda moot. But assume that I am not:
The Retina Macbook Pro in the UK is £1800. The education discount takes the price down to £1500. I wouldn't pay anything higher than £1500 for a laptop, both out of principle and the fact that I don't have £1800 to throw at a laptop. I can assure you that there are quite a lot of people in the UK who have a similar mentality. With the student discount, it took the MBPR to a price I think is reasonable to pay for a laptop of its calibre.
So with the education discount, Apple have gained £1500 (obviously not taking into account profit margin), rather than no sale at all. I would definitely say that the education loophole benefits Apple more than hinders them. It has been going on over for at least 3 years with the loophole and not being asked for ID both online and in-store. Do you really think Apple don't know this to be the case? Of course they do, but they couldn't care less as it still benefits them.
To put the education discount into context of the UK. It brings a Mac laptop to almost within PC prices. So they can pick up wavering PC users who will make the plunge to Macs because they're not paying excessive amounts to get one.
Fraud is exactly, 100%, without any doubt, the correct term. In the United States, and in nearly any country, fraud consists of knowingly making a material misrepresentation of fact, upon which the recipient of the misrepresentation relies to his detriment. Here, we are discussing someone who does not qualify under Apple's Educational Discount program falsely representing to Apple that they do. Apple then relies on that representation and discounts the price of an item accordingly. This is fraud.
Others on this thread are confused about civil vs. criminal liability. In the U.S. fraud is generally the same as both a criminal and civil matter (varies by state) and I expect that is true abroad. To be criminally prosecuted, the state must take an interest and choose to bring charges. Not likely. But Apple, as the victim, could sue someone for its damages here, and, given that everything is neatly written down and recorded, Apple would win. Depending on the state (again, in the U.S.) and the circumstances, Apple might be able to obtain attorneys fees and punitive damages.
Yes I agree by the black letter of the law, it is fraud. But whether a legal case would ever be pursued by Apple against an individual if they wanted to over this issue? Very very unlikely.
I can't comment on US culture. But if Apple pursued a lawsuit against an individual using it to save themselves £100 in the UK it would come up with vast opposition as the idea of one of the worlds richest companies going after an individual for something like this is unpalatable in the UK. In fact, in the UK the chances they would lose on a charge of s2 fraud by false representation due to jury equity. If Apple then tried to appeal that they would face even more backlash.
Hell, even some judges would find a way to squirm their way out of giving the defendant a conviction.
Edit: It's likely that they fail the dishonesty test established in Ghosh, come to think of it.
I ordered my MBP through the apple site with a student discount. I graduated college in 2009. They didn't check my status. But if they were to check, I was prepared... as I have a sibling who is still a college student, and would've used their ID card/mailing address and bought it under their name lol I received my MBP on June 21 and live in CA btw if that helps..
I received my MBP on June 21 and live in CA btw if that helps..How does it prove your point?
The comparison you used is naive at best too. Bestbuy stopped doing it because people exchanging a 3-4 year old item for something brand new is pure and simple losing money. Apple still make a big profit, with or without student discount. If they didn't then it wouldn't be offered to even legitimate students.
Someone paying £1500 instead of £1800, isn't. And in quite a lot of cases will aid them get a sale.
The loophole has been open for years in the UK, and I presume the same for the states. Do you not think Apple would have closed this by now if it was hitting their wallet? Why is this loophole available to what I gather to be a lot of the education stores. That doesn't seem to be a simple 'glitch' or mistake on the site. Maybe, just maybe, Apple do not care about people saving themselves some money because they get a sale and still make a huge markup on it.
It's ridiculously naive to think Apple are suddenly going to stop offering the education discount just because some non-students use it. If it is going to go, it will go by Apple dropping their Mac prices across the board, like another poster suggested.
Maybe if I lived in the states it would be different as your Mac prices are actually really reasonable, compared to the UK where they're borderline unacceptable. Paying $2850 for the same $2100 laptop. Even taking into account VAT/exchange rates that is a significant increase in price.
Oh buddy, you're great. You proved my point because every justification you use there is a straw argument that amounts to "it's Apple's fault because they haven't closed a benefit that people are abusing." I'm sorry, but if you can't scrounge together £300 for a piece of hardware that's going to last you for 5+ years you REALLY need to reexamine your financial priorities. It's the same as people that want to buy a smartphone buy can't afford the plan, it just doesn't make sense.
I'm also not sure how your domestic taxes have ANYTHING to do with what Apple charges. Why should they pay taxes for you? Unless you're saying that the offset of taxes by getting an Ed discount is fine because you're just...protesting high taxes? Ok then.
Hell, I'm 32, look like I'm 22 and still have an undated college ID and email address. So yes, I could have easily save hundreds on my Apple purchases over the last few years. But why would I? That's not a benefit put in place for me, it's for students who presumably have less money. Trying to say that Apple just either A) Happily accept the fact that people will try and screw them over, or B) Abandon a great policy that allows people who are in school to have a small discount on their products. It's amazing that individuals taking personal responsibility isn't listed there, but I doubt that entered your head either.
Final question - If, as you claim is the reason you're using the discount, you lived in America where we have dirt cheap computers, would you still abuse the discount? I have a feeling the answer is yes, but feel free to expand on that.
Actually no I don't. I use the argument that I don't believe Apple are truly bothered about to the extent you think they are.
I can afford the £1800 for the laptop, but does that mean I want to spend £1800 on a laptop? No it doesn't. I'd rather save myself £300 which I can put aside for other things I want to buy or save up for. I do find it hilarious how someone on the internet who doesn't even know my financial situation is telling me to reexamine how I spend my money. This is great, A* for you.
My point went over your head. I am saying that even with our 20% tax and currency conversion. Apple laptops still work out more expensive. Yes I am aware that there are other factors, but the likes of Dell and other PC OEMs don't have such a huge price increase compared to Apple's price. This isn't just a "oh PCs are cheaper" this is "Apple are charging significantly more in the UK than their PC OEM counterparts and going beyond the cost difference of sales tax and currency conversions". If PC OEMs can offer almost £1 = $1 prices, I'm at a loss why Apple, the king of the supply chain and volume, can't do the same. US prices for Apple products are fantastic, it would be nice if for once we didn't get the short end of the stick. Hell I actually think our import duty in the UK/EU is actually lower than the states.
You're not getting the point I put across. I honestly don't think Apple care much about an individual saving themselves $100/£150, whatever when they're already buying a £1k+ laptop. There are going to be more cases of the loophole benefitting Apple than Apple actually losing money. I'll say it again. The education discount loophole takes a Macbook Air for example to actually being cheaper than most PC OEMs. How many people would actually choose a Dell ultrabook over the MBA, the MBA which is the best ultrabook on the market. Not a lot, that's a sale gained for Apple and a sale lost to others. There must be some sort of a reason why Apple have turned a blind eye to the education discount for quite a while now. And that's the only reason I can think of. To me, it will /never/ hurt Apple in the long run that they lose profit (like the case of Bestbuy, it hurt their wallet). For every person who uses it who would pay the full price, if not for the loophole, there will be another who wouldn't have paid full price but will pay that discount.
You no doubt think it is a warped mentality and there will be no way I can convince you otherwise. But I think you will be quite surprised just how many ordinary people with integrity would happily save themselves 15% off a very expensive purchase, regardless of being a student or not.
In relation to your final question? Of course I would use it; you missed my very first opening point. I am a student and perfectly entitled to it. If I lived in the states right now I can assume that this would also be the case. Right now I am perfectly entitled to it so yes I would use it. However when I graduate and lived in the states. I will be brutally honest and say it depends on your discount. I heard that it can only be like $50 on some models. For that $50, I wouldn't do it. It's not worth the effort and I would feel way too tight to do that for such a meagre saving. But when it comes to getting 15% off a purchase and saving anywhere from £150-350 and more, then yes I will do it. Because that is a significant discount, to me and most people.
My final question to you. If this is truly cheating Apple, then why is it I can go into my local Apple store and buy a Mac and get my education discount without showing proof. Why is that a middle aged man with no children at college/university can walk into their local Apple store and state they're buying for their son at university and get the discount no questions asked. Is it because Apple and their employees live in a dreamy land where they believe everything the customer say? Or is it because a £1500 sale is better than the potential of no sale.
Also, what about the people on here too over the long shipping times of their Macbook Pro Retina. One person feels aggrieved about the waiting time, posts that they have given him a superdrive etc as 'compensation'. Now everybody is calling up and complaining about anything to get a free gift from Apple, do all these people truly have a grievance with Apple over the wait time, or is it 'Omg free stuff!'. Is this not the same principle as a non-student bending the system to save themselves more money? There are a lot of people doing this, so it isn't just a dishonest minority. The average person on here is trying their luck.
The proper solution, at least for the UK, IMO is to just abolish student discount, and drop the prices for everyone down to the 14% student discount. Then close the main loophole and be stricter on student ID, the benefit you get as a student is they offer the free 3 year warranty HE contract (this is already offered at the moment) and throw in a full pack of iWork software.
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I agree with the post above. The student discount is great for Apple because it lets them ship extra units without strictly lowering the price. We know how Apple never offer discounts on their product lines which stops the product from being diluted in a way. The price you pay on release day is the same price you would pay the day before the release day of the upgrade. This helps to keep their products on a premium price level. If they were to offer a discount at any stage the intrinsic value would never return to the same price and all products already in circulation depreciate from this. the student discount allows those who would never pay full price to make an extra sale for Apple without diluting the premium view of the product to the market as a whole.
That is why they are better keeping it as it is then simply reducing the prices of everything. They are making the extra 15% off people who don't mind paying it, whereas those who won't pay that much will find a way of paying less without harming the reputation of the product. It's actually a pretty smart marketing tool!
That is why they are better keeping it as it is then simply reducing the prices of everything. They are making the extra 15% off people who don't mind paying it, whereas those who won't pay that much will find a way of paying less without harming the reputation of the product. It's actually a pretty smart marketing tool!
Nice work!
For the record, I ordered mine through the Edu store (the University one you're not even supposed to be able to access unless you're on the university network, hah) and the order went fine, no questions asked.
When I ordered my rMBP, I sent by email scan of my ISIC student card to employee of Apple. But I ordered by phone and Im from Czech Republic (Europe
How it works with ISIC? Please tell me!
Why is everyone saying he's committing fraud?
Has he said he isn't a student and plans to pose as one in order to get the discount? Nope.
OP, the answer to your question is no, they do not.
Also, you guys think Tim Cook is stupid? Like he hasn't thought about this or trusts people will do the right thing? Please...
This has been figured out by Apple, and if there's an issue they'll fix it.
Has he said he isn't a student and plans to pose as one in order to get the discount? Nope.
OP, the answer to your question is no, they do not.
Also, you guys think Tim Cook is stupid? Like he hasn't thought about this or trusts people will do the right thing? Please...
This has been figured out by Apple, and if there's an issue they'll fix it.
It may not be fraud in the legal sense but that doesn't mean it is not "fraud" in the definitive sense and it still can be prosecuted civilly (or not at all).
fraud
[frawd]
noun 1. deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.
2. a particular instance of such deceit or trickery: mail fraud; election frauds.
3. any deception, trickery, or humbug: That diet book is a fraud and a waste of time.
4. a person who makes deceitful pretenses; sham; poseur.
Yea, but some folks want to argue stuff forever. Sort of funny really.
Johnny attends Univ or Somewhere, and gets a discount.
His friend Billy decides to "study" human nature on his own via reading books, etc.
Why would any company care who does what and give a discount to Johnny but not to Billy? It make zero logical sense to me - other than a marketing gimmick to sell stuff.
You people are delude if you think being honourable towards a mega corporation means anything hahaha
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Reserve your honour for when you deal with actual persons