Does scalping really make a difference?

[HiRez]

Your racism aside, I'll ask you the same question I asked the other poster.

How exactly did you come up with that number of 90%? Because unless you actually were able to determine the intent of every single person in line from number 50-700 you're just pulling that 90% number out of your ***. In other words, you're lying..

If you saw the video the guy made of the Sydney line, it's quite easy to see it's well over 90% Asian, probably over 95%. In a city that has a 19% Asian-ancestry population. To watch that video and not see that, you have to be in denial. Are there local Asian Apple fans? Of course there are. But for the most part the people in these lines are not them.

 

[erzhik]

If you didn't get a phone because scalpers got in line before you and you are upset, you are a spoiled child. It's just a freaking phone, not a life saving medication. Don't want to get upset? Get to the line sooner. Scalpers are not keeping the phones, they are still selling them. And if someone is willing to pay $500 over MSRP, how is it your concern? Stop whining like a little child.

 

[IllIllIll]

How many people wait to purchase as a result and even entertaining devices from other vendors. Im sure Apple would rather get a return on their investment sooner rather than later. As time goes on people are less likely to pay $700+ dollars for a device later into the release cycle.

Completely off-base as usual.

You are forgetting that the people who buy phones from scalpers are USING them, not tossing them in the trash. Sales of 1 million units are still 1 million whether 10% or 1% of those sales went to scalpers who resold them.

In other words, Apple gets the same ROI whether they sell to scalpers or not.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Agreed. Apple has had to change its business model multiple times as a result if scalping. Also keep in mind the returns. The result could negatively affect Apples liberal return policy as it wastes Apple employees time when they could be helping out customers rather than trying to help unauthorized resellers with massive returns. Its harder for Apple to get an accurate accounting of demand. How many people wait to purchase as a result and even entertaining devices from other vendors. Im sure Apple would rather get a return on their investment sooner rather than later. As time goes on people are less likely to pay $700+ dollars for a device later into the release cycle.

If Apple did a comparison of sales in cash v card they'd have a good estimate of scalper v end-user.

 

[IllIllIll]

If you saw the video the guy made of the Sydney line, it's quite easy to see it's well over 90% Asian, probably over 95%. In a city that has a 19% Asian-ancestry population. To watch that video and not see that, you have to be in denial. Are there local Asian Apple fans? Of course there are. But for the most part the people in these lines are not them.

Oh, OK. Just as I thought. "Asian == scalper".

I'm sure you also believe that "Black == criminal", right? You're as much of a closeted racist as ToroidalZeus is.

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If Apple did a comparison of sales in cash v card they'd have a good estimate of scalper v end-user.

No they wouldn't.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

If you didn't get a phone because scalpers got in line before you and you are upset, you are a spoiled child. It's just a freaking phone, not a life saving medication. Don't want to get upset? Get to the line sooner. Scalpers are not keeping the phones, they are still selling them. And if someone is willing to pay $500 over MSRP, how is it your concern? Stop whining like a little child.

A) they are breaking a lot of laws like customs, tax, littering, etc.

B) they are causing shortages.

 

[mtneer]

After reading some of the threads on here you would think that Scalpers are making Apple lose legitimate customers by buying up supplies while real fans aren't able to get their hands on something.

......

If you look at it the other way - the people who pay the scalpers to stand in line in another country and pay thousands of dollars of markup to get to use a product exclusively for a couple of weeks, are the real fans... and they let their wallet do the talking for it.

 

[IllIllIll]

A) they are breaking a lot of laws like customs, tax, littering, etc.

B) they are causing shortages.

A) Unless they're not paying duty on the stuff they're importing, they're not breaking any customs laws.

B) It's not just scalpers who litter.

Why haven't you answered my question yet? Can't think of any more clever ways to make up numbers?

 

[wxman2003]

One way to solve the issue is to force those who wish to buy, to is activate the phones with one of the carriers. If people want to pay cash, gift card, CC, etc, that's fine. However, phone must be activated before sale is final. Bye bye scalpers.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

If you look at it the other way - the people who pay the scalpers to stand in line in another country and pay thousands of dollars of markup to get to use a product exclusively for a couple of weeks, are the real fans... and they let their wallet do the talking for it.

The Chinese would have either iPhones if their government wasn't asking Apple for a bigger bribe.

 

[Prise]

A) they are breaking a lot of laws like customs, tax, littering, etc.

B) they are causing shortages.

A. Tax liability is a completely separate issue. How many order from Amazon and evade State taxes?

B. If this is true, I suspect Apple should encourage it. All they care about are units sold at their suggested retail prices.

In any case, where demand out paces supply, there will be price increase in the short term. Apple can either (1) produce more, or (2) raise prices. Either or a combination will bring the market back to equilibrium.

It is readily apparent that the majority of "scalpers" appear to be Asian. So what? Anyone who is willing to get in line, pay another, and bear the financial risks of the enterprise, what's the issue?

 

[IllIllIll]

It is readily apparent that the majority of "scalpers" appear to be Asian. So what? Anyone who is willing to get in life, pay another, and bear the financial risks of the enterprise, what's the issue?

The issue is that people like ToroidalZeus feel they deserve to get their iPhones earlier than anyone else for no other reason than self-entitlement.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

A. Tax liability is a completely separate issue. How many order from Amazon and evade State taxes?

B. If this is true, I suspect Apple should encourage it. All they care about are units sold at their suggested retail prices.

In any case, where demand out paces supply, there will be price increase in the short term. Apple can either (1) produce more, or (2) raise prices. Either or a combination will bring the market back to equilibrium.

It is readily apparent that the majority of "scalpers" appear to be Asian. So what? Anyone who is willing to get in life, pay another, and bear the financial risks of the enterprise, what's the issue?

1st) You clearly don't follow Apple if you think "they only care about units sold." I doubt Steve Jobs would ever hire a guy like you. They have a 2 per person policy for a reason.

2nd) The demand hasn't outpaced supply (by much). iPhones being locally sold are asking premium of 100-150-MAYBE, LUCKILY 200 dollars over full retail MSRP.

It's demand in China where people are willing to pay 1.5k, 2k, more for iPhones that is causing the issue.

In essence the scalpers are manipulating the global economy and circumventing their local carriers along with taking advantage of our domestic carriers' lax sales policy to make a profit. In the end their actions are causing a negative effect on our domestic market.

 

[IllIllIll]

1st) You clearly don't follow Apple if you think "they only care about units sold." I doubt Steve Jobs would ever hire a guy like you.

Steve Jobs isn't in any position to hire anyone. He's dead. Move on.

2nd) The demand hasn't outpaced supply (by much). iPhones being locally sold are asking premium of 100-150-MAYBE, LUCKILY 200 dollars over full retail MSRP.

Demand hasn't outpaced supply? Maybe not for the 6, but definitely for the 6 Plus. People who preordered online were getting ship dates as late as November.

In essence the scammers are manipulating the global economy and circumventing their local carriers along with taking advantage of our domestic carriers' lax sales policy to make a profit. In the end their actions are causing a negative effect on our domestic market.

Nice big words. This statement above just proves you have zero knowledge of economics.

 

[Gregintosh]

I agree that a great deal of scalpers are Asians selling to the Asian market, but that's not all of them. When I was in line there were 5 college aged kids of non Asian ethnicity who were loudly discussing their profit strategies for the units they were hoping to purchase.

My point with this thread is that people who say they won't get an iPhone or switch to android because scalpers took all the launch day supplies are using deeply flawed logic and are acting like hysterical babies.

I bet most who said this will end up with the iPhone anyway once their rage subsides. Everyone just needs a scapegoat and scalpers are a convenient and highly visible one.

I don't think Apple loses any business of significance by having this problem. If anyone disagrees I would love to hear your point of view.

 

[miamialley]

It wasn't a few; It was over 500. Anyways before anyone calls me a racist I am friends with some vietnamese people so I'd like to share a pic from their Facebook.

Holy crap. So what is their game plan with all those phones?

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Holy crap. So what is their game plan with all those phones?

Export to Vietnam and sell them there for 2x the MSRP here.

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I agree that a great deal of scalpers are Asians selling to the Asian market, but that's not all of them. When I was in line there were 5 college aged kids of non Asian ethnicity who were loudly discussing their profit strategies for the units they were hoping to purchase.

My point with this thread is that people who say they won't get an iPhone or switch to android because scalpers took all the launch day supplies are using deeply flawed logic and are acting like hysterical babies.

I bet most who said this will end up with the iPhone anyway once their rage subsides. Everyone just needs a scapegoat and scalpers are a convenient and highly visible one.

I don't think Apple loses any business of significance by having this problem. If anyone disagrees I would love to hear your point of view.

I don't like domestic scalpers either BUT most of the ones trying haven't tried to scalp before.

For instance in our line a few people tried to scalp the PS4 when it came out and made almost nothing. So they knew it wasn't worth trying to scalp the iPhone 6 (until an Asian person offered them 100 on the spot for the phone) because the domestic scalp value is VERY limited and drops by the day as the market gets flooded.

But the scalpers who plan to export are in a completely different position because they go for much more than a hundred bucks over MSRP overseas. So they are causing a much muCH MUCH larger impact on the supply.

Lastly Apple cares a lot about their imagine and being fair to their customers--at-least more than most companies--so I definitely think they'll have to something about it if the media attention becomes too negative. The scalper situation didn't get THAT bad until the 5S and has exploded with the 6 so this is a fairly recent problem.

 

[Prise]

1st)
In essence the scalpers are manipulating the global economy and circumventing their local carriers along with taking advantage of our domestic carriers' lax sales policy to make a profit. In the end their actions are causing a negative effect on our domestic market.

A couple of things: (1) Apple is a for profit public company whose management is tasked to increase and maximize shareholder value; and, (2) arbitrage is not illegal.

Free enterprise seems to be a concept, for whatever reason, lost on many here.

 

[nilart]

Honestly I'd be really pissed if I couldn't get an iPhone on the day i want just because some people want to make profit out of it, every year it gets worse not because iphone have more demand but because some people want to make profit out of this situation... the same happens for event tickets or any other thing... this practice is just wrong and hope Apple make it harder in the future.

I understand that some people here probably have bought several devices to resell them and will bash me for saying this, but this is worrying. Look at the growth rate of this practice every year, and most scalpers didn't even know they could reserve online.

 

[Prise]

Honestly I'd be really pissed if I couldn't get an iPhone on the day i want just because some people want to make profit out of it.../QUOTE]

Sure, I'd be upset too!

However, I have the option to (1) get in line earlier, (2) pre-order at 12 am, (3) pay the higher price in the secondary market, or (4) wait until Apple replenishes the supply.

In my view, anyone willing to make the effort and bear the financial risks of diverting goods deserves whatever profit or loss they incur. It's really that simple.

 

[617aircav]

A scalper saved me $100. If he was not there I would not have saved that $100. I dont care about them as they dont affect my life one way or the other.

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Honestly I'd be really pissed if I couldn't get an iPhone on the day i want just because some people want to make profit out of it, every year it gets worse not because iphone have more demand but because some people want to make profit out of this situation... the same happens for event tickets or any other thing... this practice is just wrong and hope Apple make it harder in the future.

I understand that some people here probably have bought several devices to resell them and will bash me for saying this, but this is worrying. Look at the growth rate of this practice every year, and most scalpers didn't even know they could reserve online.

Why would you be pissed? You could have preordered it and it would have reached you in a couple of weeks.

 

[Ludatyk]

Why would you be pissed? You could have preordered it and it would have reached you in a couple of weeks.

It's just the thought of standing in line for hours and not being able to get it on launch day would cause someone to be extremely disappointed. I wonder the people who are really concerned about the scalpers must didn't get the iPhone on launch day. I was in line for 10+ hours... And I was lucky enough to not deal with that many scalpers in front of me. I would had been disappointed to not get the iPhone I wanted, but I wouldn't had gotten upset or anything.

I would just come to conclusion it wasn't meant to be. I can't really say I have a problem with scalpers because if the shoe was on the other foot and I had a chance to sell to make a profit.. I definitely would. I was fortunate enough to get the iPhone I desired.. And it wouldn't change my view on scalping if I couldn't.

 

[miamialley]

I wonder how many resellers were at the Apple store in Palo Alto with Tim Cook. I'd like to see his reaction.

 

[faiz23]

Apple prefers to sell the phones to end users with a carrier plan tied to it. They get paid monthly fees (kickbacks) from the carrier for every iphone user on their network. Scalpers pay full price and ship phone overseas to folks who use it on the local GSM network. Apple makes a nice profit from selling a phone that cost them $200-$300 to make for $750-$850 outright to scalpers. Apple would prefer a continuous revenue stream from carriers via kickbacks versus a one time profit.

 

[IllIllIll]

A couple of things: (1) Apple is a for profit public company whose management is tasked to increase and maximize shareholder value; and, (2) arbitrage is not illegal.

Free enterprise seems to be a concept, for whatever reason, lost on many here.

THat's the gist of it. There's a bunch of butt hurt rabid Apple fanboys here who are completely offended because they couldn't get their precious iPHones on release day. Instead, they lost out to people who woke up and stood in line earlier than they did in order to make some money. Well, that's simply unacceptable because only rabid fanboys deserve first shot at buying iPhones on release day!

All the self-rioghteous talk about concern for the "global economy" and protecting the Chinese government's economic interests are simply a smokescreen - easy fodder for fanboys with no knowledge of retail or economics to use to make everyone aware of the fact that they were 'robbed' of an iPhone on 9/19. Because, after all, since they don't have an iPhone to rub in others' faces on release day, they need to find another way to rub their entitlement attitudes in others' faces.

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It's just the thought of standing in line for hours and not being able to get it on launch day would cause someone to be extremely disappointed. I wonder the people who are really concerned about the scalpers must didn't get the iPhone on launch day. I was in line for 10+ hours... And I was lucky enough to not deal with that many scalpers in front of me. I would had been disappointed to not get the iPhone I wanted, but I wouldn't had gotten upset or anything.

I think anyone would be disappointed either way, whether there were 10 scalpers in front of you, or none. However, that's life. Whether the 10 people in front of you were going to use the phone or resell it shouldn't make any difference, right?