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macbd

macrumors regular
Mar 13, 2010
117
2
It is a huge issue for this release. I've stood in three different lines this weekend, with no success I might add, and the demographic of the people in line does not at all match the demographic of iPhone users in this community. This morning one fellow had already bought two Plusses for "his parents" back home on Friday and was in line for two more (two being the limit per person). Also have noticed several of these individuals using their own 6 Plus while waiting in line to buy more.
And I won't even get into how much attempted line cutting has been going on, where one guy is there in line and over the course of an hour four more join him.
Pretty frustrating.
 

IllIllIll

macrumors 65816
Oct 2, 2011
1,110
331
And so far not a single person has been able or willing to answer my question:

How are you all coming to the conclusion that so many people in line are intending to resell their phones?

Hint: If you're going by race or looks, then you have no valid answer and are simply speculating at best, outright lying at worst.
 

Ludatyk

macrumors 603
May 27, 2012
5,363
4,352
Texas
I think anyone would be disappointed either way, whether there were 10 scalpers in front of you, or none. However, that's life. Whether the 10 people in front of you were going to use the phone or resell it shouldn't make any difference, right?

If I had known there were 10 scalpers in front of me... I wouldn't had bothered to continue staying in line.. tbh. I was 20ish in line.. And I had a good handle that most of the people who were in front of me seemed genuinely interested in having the iPhone.

And I think the moral view point wouldn't sit right with me. The fact that the people who I sat hours with actually shared the same mindset as far as enjoying Apple products is something I rather be a part of. Not that I disagree with scalpers and their intentions.. but I just wouldn't want to be among that particular scenario.
 

dontwalkhand

macrumors 603
Jul 5, 2007
6,377
2,866
Phoenix, AZ
The scalpers bother me because they ruined the sense of being with other Apple fans, and for most since the first iphone, the chance to geek out and camp out. The feeling wasn't the same this year, camping out with a bunch of Chinese scalpers who didn't care much about the iPhone themselves.

The iPhone line used to be for people who didn't preorder on purpose, to be able to "get the experience"...Apple had something unique and the Scalpers ruined it.

Scalpers also made the line grow exponentially longer to those behind them, and causing Apple to run out of the phone you'd truely want. The scalpers employed methods to allow their scalping scum to cut the legitimate buyers.
 

IllIllIll

macrumors 65816
Oct 2, 2011
1,110
331
If I had known there were 10 scalpers in front of me... I wouldn't had bothered to continue staying in line.. tbh. I was 20ish in line.. And I had a good handle that most of the people who were in front of me seemed genuinely interested in having the iPhone.

And I think the moral view point wouldn't sit right with me. The fact that the people who I sat hours with actually shared the same mindset as far as enjoying Apple products is something I rather be a part of. Not that I disagree with scalpers and their intentions.. but I just wouldn't want to be among that particular scenario.

That's understandable. I can respect that view.

It's the entitled views of some other people here that make them no better than the scalpers they're deriding. What they're implying is that people need to have a valid reason to be among the first to buy an iPhone on release day, and even worse, they should have the right to decide whether someone deserves to buy one ahead of them. Incredibly arrogant attitude IMO.

----------

The scalpers bother me because they ruined the sense of being with other Apple fans, and for most since the first iphone, the chance to geek out and camp out. The feeling wasn't the same this year, camping out with a bunch of Chinese scalpers who didn't care much about the iPhone themselves.

The iPhone line used to be for people who didn't preorder on purpose, to be able to "get the experience"...Apple had something unique and the Scalpers ruined it.

Scalpers also made the line grow exponentially longer to those behind them, and causing Apple to run out of the phone you'd truely want. The scalpers employed methods to allow their scalping scum to cut the legitimate buyers.

Like I said above. People like you feel only certain 'approved' people should be able to wait in line and buy iPhones on release day. And some take it to another level and brand all people who look Asian as scalpers.

Here's a hint for you. If I'm ahead of you in line, buy an iPhone, and immediately go outside and smash it to smithereens, that's my right. I didn't deprive anyone behind me in line of an iPhone, whether I destroyed the phone or if I went home and activated it - no matter how much you want to believe otherwise. Once I pay for it, it's mine to do with as I please. It's none of your business what happens after the sale.

You're no better or more deserving than anyone else. You are not a member of some exclusive Apple fanboy club that grants you more buying power and privilege over anyone else. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can learn to let go of your latent prejudice.
 

Ludatyk

macrumors 603
May 27, 2012
5,363
4,352
Texas
And I won't even get into how much attempted line cutting has been going on, where one guy is there in line and over the course of an hour four more join him.
Pretty frustrating.

When I was in line.. I was fortunate enough to be apart of former and current Apple employees who discussed handling line cutting. They were interested who were all in front of them.. And gotten a good handle of the whole situation. Had there been line cutting.. it would had definitely been addressed. I mean they honestly put the experience at ease since it was my first time doing an all-nighter.
 

lke

macrumors 6502a
Jun 19, 2009
570
15
People that is mad about the scalpers sooner or later will buy an iphone 6.

They are mad and angry and they can only write threads about this.

Next time order your iphone online and you will save a lot of problems.


With the iphone 5 I waited over 3 hours and when I finally enter the store I could not buy anything because the one I want was already sell out, after this time I promise to never wait for an iphone and always order it thru the Apple Store.
 

617aircav

Suspended
Jul 2, 2012
3,975
818
The scalpers bother me because they ruined the sense of being with other Apple fans, and for most since the first iphone, the chance to geek out and camp out. The feeling wasn't the same this year, camping out with a bunch of Chinese scalpers who didn't care much about the iPhone themselves.

The iPhone line used to be for people who didn't preorder on purpose, to be able to "get the experience"...Apple had something unique and the Scalpers ruined it.

Scalpers also made the line grow exponentially longer to those behind them, and causing Apple to run out of the phone you'd truely want. The scalpers employed methods to allow their scalping scum to cut the legitimate buyers.
I don't care about the iPhone as you do. Sorry. My last phone was falling apart and I decided I wanted a large iPhone. I got in line early to increase my chances. If I didn't get one I would have to wait a week. Big deal. There were 10 so called scalpers in front of me and I paid them no mind. Their intentions were none of my business. Obviously the phones are going to china so therefore Chinese scalpers. If the phones were going to Russia there would be Russian scalpers. Did I wish there was no scalping, sure I do. At the same time I prepared myself by getting in line early. Why even bother coming at 6 in the morning when the line is 200 people long.
 

dontwalkhand

macrumors 603
Jul 5, 2007
6,377
2,866
Phoenix, AZ
That's understandable. I can respect that view.

It's the entitled views of some other people here that make them no better than the scalpers they're deriding. What they're implying is that people need to have a valid reason to be among the first to buy an iPhone on release day, and even worse, they should have the right to decide whether someone deserves to buy one ahead of them. Incredibly arrogant attitude IMO.

----------



Like I said above. People like you feel only certain 'approved' people should be able to wait in line and buy iPhones on release day. And some take it to another level and brand all people who look Asian as scalpers.

Here's a hint for you. If I'm ahead of you in line, buy an iPhone, and immediately go outside and smash it to smithereens, that's my right. I didn't deprive anyone behind me in line of an iPhone, whether I destroyed the phone or if I went home and activated it - no matter how much you want to believe otherwise. Once I pay for it, it's mine to do with as I please. It's none of your business what happens after the sale.

You're no better or more deserving than anyone else. You are not a member of some exclusive Apple fanboy club that grants you more buying power and privilege over anyone else. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can learn to let go of your latent prejudice.

It's not what you or others do with the phone that people are complaining.

If you were waiting in line and ten scalpers cut the line in front of you, and now the 6+ is out, don't you have a reason to be mad?

As for the Apple experience, it truly was something special. It was actually fun to wait in line with people who shared the same passions as you.

It isn't racist to say someone doesn't even speak a lick of English in an iPhone line, with 10 others who also don't speak English looking for a "device only" iPhone.

Also, this problem can easily be solved by requiring you to Activate before you leave the store.
 

AdonisSMU

macrumors 604
Oct 23, 2010
7,298
3,047
Completely off-base as usual.

You are forgetting that the people who buy phones from scalpers are USING them, not tossing them in the trash. Sales of 1 million units are still 1 million whether 10% or 1% of those sales went to scalpers who resold them.

In other words, Apple gets the same ROI whether they sell to scalpers or not.
Do you have data to back up your claim that the phone was used rather than returned when it became clear they couldn't be sold elsewhere for a profit (not-so-smart man by your own admission)? Still stuck on stupid I see with your asinine and ignorant comments. Every year the scalpers end up returning the unsold product and you see a mass of people in line with bags and bags of phones that Apple employees get bogged down with when they could be helping legitimate customers rather than unauthorized resellers. There is a reason Apple has that program.
 
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IllIllIll

macrumors 65816
Oct 2, 2011
1,110
331
It's not what you or others do with the phone that people are complaining.

If you were waiting in line and ten scalpers cut the line in front of you, and now the 6+ is out, don't you have a reason to be mad?

Of course I'd be mad. I'd be mad if anyone cut in line ahead of me.

So you're okay with scalpers that just showed up early and didn't cut in line, right?

It isn't racist to say someone doesn't even speak a lick of English in an iPhone line, with 10 others who also don't speak English looking for a "device only" iPhone.

Also, this problem can easily be solved by requiring you to Activate before you leave the store.

No, but it IS racist to conclude that every person of Asian descent standing in line is a scalper.

----------

Do you have data to back up your claim that the phone was used rather than returned when it became clear they couldn't be sold elsewhere for a profit (not-so-smart man by your own admission)? Still stuck on stupid I see with your asinine ignorant comments.

That's rich, coming from you. You're the king of nonsensical comments and fallacious reasoning, Chris.

And logically, why would someone buy from a scalper just to return it? I have no problem supporting my statements and claims with evidence, unlike you, but the requests need to be reasonable and make sense. Yours don't. In fact, you've already disqualified yourself from participating in this discussion in any reasonable capacity.
 

AdonisSMU

macrumors 604
Oct 23, 2010
7,298
3,047
That's understandable. I can respect that view.

It's the entitled views of some other people here that make them no better than the scalpers they're deriding. What they're implying is that people need to have a valid reason to be among the first to buy an iPhone on release day, and even worse, they should have the right to decide whether someone deserves to buy one ahead of them. Incredibly arrogant attitude IMO.

----------



Like I said above. People like you feel only certain 'approved' people should be able to wait in line and buy iPhones on release day. And some take it to another level and brand all people who look Asian as scalpers.

Here's a hint for you. If I'm ahead of you in line, buy an iPhone, and immediately go outside and smash it to smithereens, that's my right. I didn't deprive anyone behind me in line of an iPhone, whether I destroyed the phone or if I went home and activated it - no matter how much you want to believe otherwise. Once I pay for it, it's mine to do with as I please. It's none of your business what happens after the sale.

You're no better or more deserving than anyone else. You are not a member of some exclusive Apple fanboy club that grants you more buying power and privilege over anyone else. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can learn to let go of your latent prejudice.
Certain approved people get to do certain things all the time and there is good reason for it. There is a reason Apple has a reseller program. There is a reason a doctor has to have the degrees and paper work in order to perform their job. There is a reason people are required to have licenses and other things. You capitalism at all costs clowns don't realize how much you've actually benefitted from the system not being perfect. You think people should take advantage of the system simply because you can get away with it no matter the costs. People didn't say anything about scalpers at first. The scalping situation has gotten out of hand with this launch.

Secondly, you might as well be complaining that Apple's pre-order program is singling out "certain" people for phones when in fact it is not. So if you don't have a problem with that program then you shouldn't have a problem with any other ways Apple wants to manage their consumer base at launch. Why shouldn't end users have access to Apple products at launch? Why don't these people go through Apples reseller program to get their needs met. Apple would send the phones right to them. They wouldn't have to wait in line at the Apple store. There is a system Apple has put into place for companies to resell their products.
 

shady25

macrumors member
Sep 16, 2014
86
0
Oh the ******** entitlement in this thread is strong.
Throwing a fit over those who aren't doing anything wrong, standing in line like the lot of you.

Also the racism here is quite interesting. Some may want to address their stupidity
 

IllIllIll

macrumors 65816
Oct 2, 2011
1,110
331
Certain approved people get to do certain things all the time and there is good reason for it. There is a reason Apple has a reseller program. There is a reason a doctor has to have the degrees and paper work in order to perform their job. There is a reason people are required to have licenses and other things. You capitalism at all costs clowns don't realize how much you've actually benefitted from the system not being perfect. You think people should take advantage of the system simply because you can get away with it no matter the costs. People didn't say anything about scalpers at first. The scalping situation has gotten out of hand with this launch.

Secondly, you might as well be complaining that Apple's pre-order program is singling out "certain" people for phones when in fact it is not. So if you don't have a problem with that program then you shouldn't have a problem with any other ways Apple wants to manage their consumer base at launch. Why shouldn't end users have access to Apple products at launch? Why don't these people go through Apples reseller program to get their needs met. Apple would send the phones right to them. They wouldn't have to wait in line at the Apple store. There is a system Apple has put into place for companies to resell their products.

LOL!

Sorry, but that's not how the real world works. Neither you nor Apple have the right to decide what I or anyone else can and cannot do with my iPhone once I've paid for it outright. And you applying standards for commercial reseller entities (licensing, etc.) to private citizens doesn't work and is not enforceable.

Maybe the system you envision works in your own little delusional world filled with rainbows and unicorns, but fortunately that's where it's gonna stay. :cool:

I realize you have little tolerance for scalpers because you take what they're doing as some kind of personal insult to you. But at this point you're simply grabbing at straws to find any reason to justify your hate. It's sad, really.
 

617aircav

Suspended
Jul 2, 2012
3,975
818
I saw them cut into the line behind me, and that was because the folks behind me fell asleep. I stayed attentive all night, I was not going to get pushed back.
 

Gregintosh

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 29, 2008
1,914
533
Chicago
A) they are breaking a lot of laws like customs, tax, littering, etc.

B) they are causing shortages.

They are not causing shortages, they are simply distorting who can get one. All the units scalpers buy go to end users who want to use the iPhone.

For example, a wealthy businessman who doesn't have time to stand in line but really wants the unit on launch day may choose to pay the $300+ extra to buy the unit from a scalper than take the day off (which may cost him $1,000+).

So ultimately on that same day or the next someone else who wanted an iPhone to use for themselves is getting one, except they're paying the price for that middleman.

To cause a shortage would mean that the scalpers are buying them and sitting on the units, removing them from the market. That is absolutely 100% not the case.

The shortage would have been the same, since thats decided by how many units Apple makes. The only difference is who gets to use them, whether its regular folks who want to pay retail or wealthier people (or people to whom its more important) and are willing to pay above retail to use the iPhone that or the next day.


And so far not a single person has been able or willing to answer my question:

How are you all coming to the conclusion that so many people in line are intending to resell their phones?

Hint: If you're going by race or looks, then you have no valid answer and are simply speculating at best, outright lying at worst.

I think given common knowledge about who uses iPhones and who is a fan of Apple, one can make some assumptions or guesses as the to the likelihood of whether or not someone in line is going to use the product or resell.

Notice I said make a guess as to the likelihood, not determine for sure. For example, I would say an 85 year old Asian man who doesn't smile and shows no excitement but has waited 24 hours in line MIGHT be a big fan, understand how to use smart phones, and simply not want to show he's happy and excited to get an iPhone.

I would say, however, that the odds are more likely that he's probably doing this for resale or is being paid to wait.

Similarly, a lot of us assume that some white kids who are in their 20's or 30's might be big fans of Apple, but we know many of them can scalp too. The line I was in there was a group of people who you would've thought were Apple's target demographic but were discussing their plans/strategies to resell out loud with each other.

You just never know how many of them are scalpers, but I would say since its fairly predictable that this shortage happens every time, enough people got wind in the public that you can participate in the launch and earn an extra $500 to $1,000 for a day's work that many people from all walks of life might want to participate.

The asian ones just stand out so much because it looks so obvious the way they do it:

1. Sometimes people are seen coming out of vans together and being handed cash or depositing their units nearby to a ringleader and being given cash, not to mention their lack of excitement or joy which would be typical among a true fan.

2. By their ethnicity and often age (many tend to be senior citizens who I would say no matter their ethnicity would be highly unlikely to know how to use an iPhone much less wait in line on launch day to get one for themselves) they stand out in a group of people mostly in their 20's to 30's with very occasionally 40's and majority white.

I do believe that everyone has a right to do what they want, and as I mentioned in my original posts, I would love to hear proof that the launch day/scalping situation turns people off so much they end up not wanting an iPhone at all.

To me scalpers are a nuisance/annoyance, and if Apple doesn't like to leave money on the table maybe they should come up with better ideas how to handle them. But even though its hard to get a hold of a unit for a few weeks, no Apple shortage has ever lasted so long that it soured me or anyone I know on upgrading to it or sticking with Apple for their products.


Possible Solution

One way Apple could take advantage of the extra money people are willing to pay for products on launch day is to institute a premium pre-order service. Rather than letting scalpers charge an extra fee, why not let people pay above retail to them?

For example, when pre-orders open they would be $200 above retail price for the first 12 hours, letting people who are willing to pay that much more get their units first. Then $100 above retail for the rest of the pre-order period, letting some people risk falling behind a little bit but still get it early.

Then at launch, the first week would have a $100 premium also and after 1 week on the market the public launch happens at regular retail price.

It wouldn't be misleading by Apple because it would publicly announced the price at which the unit goes on sale at the normal price, with simply that extra premium window to front load all the people who are willing to pay more than its worth to Apple.

I think this strategy would minimize scalpers by reducing demand for scalped units (since more people could pay the small premium to Apple direct and I am sure would prefer that route over paying someone on Craigslist or eBay where its more risky) and the premium would also reduce scalper's profit margins to where maybe it would no longer attract as many willing scalpers. And Apple wins because they earn even more than they normally would.
 
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Lucifer666

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2014
1,064
416
And so far not a single person has been able or willing to answer my question:

How are you all coming to the conclusion that so many people in line are intending to resell their phones?

Hint: If you're going by race or looks, then you have no valid answer and are simply speculating at best, outright lying at worst.

It's speculation. It's logical. It's a result of human brain activity.

Try it. :)

Anyways, I think the hole thing is kinda cool. People are working which is always good. They must earn a decent wage inspite of those mighmarish lines. What's surprising is how they can endure this.

I mean, sure the trendy tech junkies are fueled with 'Apple juice', but most of these people probably don't know what an iPhone is; at least, I got that felling when the reporters were asking about it

"Aren't you so excited to get the new iPhone? (smiling)" ...them: WTF? "iPhone?....OH yes iPhone he he he"

(I wish they would close these stupid threads so I don't post in them. It's embarrassing :D )
 
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ToroidalZeus

macrumors 68020
Dec 8, 2009
2,301
875
They are not causing shortages, they are simply distorting who can get one. All the units scalpers buy go to end users who want to use the iPhone.

For example, a wealthy businessman who doesn't have time to stand in line but really wants the unit on launch day may choose to pay the $300+ extra to buy the unit from a scalper than take the day off (which may cost him $1,000+).

So ultimately on that same day or the next someone else who wanted an iPhone to use for themselves is getting one, except they're paying the price for that middleman.

To cause a shortage would mean that the scalpers are buying them and sitting on the units, removing them from the market. That is absolutely 100% not the case.

The shortage would have been the same, since thats decided by how many units Apple makes. The only difference is who gets to use them, whether its regular folks who want to pay retail or wealthier people (or people to whom its more important) and are willing to pay above retail to use the iPhone that or the next day.

If they are reselling the phones to wealthy people in the same country then your logic holds true and to be accurate this does happen. BUT the majority of the phones are exported overseas. So they are causing a shortage of units in the USDM while the phones are shipped overseas, to countries who are unable to currently purchase the iPhone.
 
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wxman2003

Suspended
Apr 12, 2011
2,580
294
I remember the good old days when iPhones were carrier locked and scalpers were no where to be found.
 

lordofthereef

macrumors G5
Nov 29, 2011
13,161
3,720
Boston, MA
And so far not a single person has been able or willing to answer my question:

How are you all coming to the conclusion that so many people in line are intending to resell their phones?

Hint: If you're going by race or looks, then you have no valid answer and are simply speculating at best, outright lying at worst.

I answered your question and quoted you a few pages back, if you care to read it.
 

IllIllIll

macrumors 65816
Oct 2, 2011
1,110
331
BUT the major of the phones are exported overseas.
You have no proof of this.

So they are causing a shortage of units in the USDM while the phones are shipped overseas, to countries who are unable to currently purchase the iPhone.
You have no proof of this, nor do you have actual numbers to support your claims.

And you STILL haven't answered my question. Epic fail on your part.
 

miamialley

macrumors 68040
Jul 28, 2008
3,505
979
California, USA
I have tried multiple times. Was never able to get through. Called Apple, they told me Next can;t be ordered online. :(

Well, that is definitely false. It is subject to a credit check. If you don't qualify there will be no option for you for NEXT. Not sure what else it could be, but they definitely told you wrong info.
 

lordofthereef

macrumors G5
Nov 29, 2011
13,161
3,720
Boston, MA
Well, that is definitely false. It is subject to a credit check. If you don't qualify there will be no option for you for NEXT. Not sure what else it could be, but they definitely told you wrong info.

It wasn;t a credit check. AT&T was able to order just fine.

Apple's website claims upgrades are not available in my region. I am not in any of the regions (NYC and Wyoming) that are unable to order.

Anyway, just reporting to what the lady told me on the phone.

EDIT: This screenshot is from the 12th when I tried to preorder. But I get the same error.

 

4491228

Cancelled
Jul 24, 2014
94
4
That's understandable. I can respect that view.

It's the entitled views of some other people here that make them no better than the scalpers they're deriding. What they're implying is that people need to have a valid reason to be among the first to buy an iPhone on release day, and even worse, they should have the right to decide whether someone deserves to buy one ahead of them. Incredibly arrogant attitude IMO.

----------



Like I said above. People like you feel only certain 'approved' people should be able to wait in line and buy iPhones on release day. And some take it to another level and brand all people who look Asian as scalpers.

Here's a hint for you. If I'm ahead of you in line, buy an iPhone, and immediately go outside and smash it to smithereens, that's my right. I didn't deprive anyone behind me in line of an iPhone, whether I destroyed the phone or if I went home and activated it - no matter how much you want to believe otherwise. Once I pay for it, it's mine to do with as I please. It's none of your business what happens after the sale.

You're no better or more deserving than anyone else. You are not a member of some exclusive Apple fanboy club that grants you more buying power and privilege over anyone else. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can learn to let go of your latent prejudice.

Politics went straight out the window there.
thank you liberal democracy.
 
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