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Does Tahoe 26.4 deprecate HFS+ ?

With 26.3 my RAID disks HFS+ are mounted normally: read/write. Have yet to convert to APFS. The 26 installer refuses to install if the disk is not APFS (fair enough).

I am testing with an external TB3-SSD.
 
Fishrrman said:
2024 Mini m4 here. I normally run it with Sequoia, but I have an experimental/external SSD for Tahoe.

The Tahoe 26.4 developer beta became available yesterday, so I installed it onto my external SSD.

BIG CHANGE. And not for the good.

It now sees all of my HFS+ partitions (on the m4's internal SSD) as "read only".

Up until 26.3, they functioned normally, HFS+ drives, readable and writeable.

When I log in, finder loads and displays this for each HFS+ volume:
View attachment 2605800

I tried opening disk utility, selecting an HFS+ volume, and running "first aid" on it.
Result: drive is unmounted, then du reports failure. But afterwards, I can't even re-mount the drive.

I tried connecting and mounting one of my backup drives (old seagate HDD, formatted to HFS+) -- it, too, appears on the desktop with the same warning, "read only".

Perhaps there is some way around this, using terminal to over-ride the default setting of read-only and again make HFS+ volumes writeable.

But if not, it looks like 26.4 is "the end of the line" for HFS+.

Those who still like and use HFS+ should take care -- if you upgrade to 26.4 (and beyond), those HFS+ drives will no longer be fully "usable".

Could someone else check to see if they experience similar behavior...?
Click to expand...
I discovered this issue after I have installed iOS 26.4 beta. Thankfully, the update has not been installed on my other (Intel-powered) machine.
 
Churchman said:
I dislike the word deprecate.

Why not just say obsolete… or phased out… or removed?
Click to expand...
Because that's not what it means. Deprecate means advised against; or discouraged. It is generally used to describe something that is still included for legacy support but will become obsolete/removed later.


However, Apple staffers do use it in release notes to mean "removed" as well; and I dislike that neologism, because a lack of precision deprives us of the distinction. People also write 'depreciate' -- most likely a slip of the key -- which of course also has its own separate meaning.
 
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Fishrrman said:
2024 Mini m4 here. I normally run it with Sequoia, but I have an experimental/external SSD for Tahoe.

The Tahoe 26.4 developer beta became available yesterday, so I installed it onto my external SSD.

BIG CHANGE. And not for the good.

It now sees all of my HFS+ partitions (on the m4's internal SSD) as "read only".

Up until 26.3, they functioned normally, HFS+ drives, readable and writeable.

When I log in, finder loads and displays this for each HFS+ volume:
View attachment 2605800

I tried opening disk utility, selecting an HFS+ volume, and running "first aid" on it.
Result: drive is unmounted, then du reports failure. But afterwards, I can't even re-mount the drive.

I tried connecting and mounting one of my backup drives (old seagate HDD, formatted to HFS+) -- it, too, appears on the desktop with the same warning, "read only".

Perhaps there is some way around this, using terminal to over-ride the default setting of read-only and again make HFS+ volumes writeable.

But if not, it looks like 26.4 is "the end of the line" for HFS+.

Those who still like and use HFS+ should take care -- if you upgrade to 26.4 (and beyond), those HFS+ drives will no longer be fully "usable".

Could someone else check to see if they experience similar behavior...?
Click to expand...
Workaround: macOS 26.4 beta won’t mount HFS+ volumes properly

I just figured it out, tested and confirmed success, go forth and share



Problem

On macOS 26.4 beta, some HFS+ (Mac OS Extended) external drives/partitions fail to mount normally or appear read-only. This is a known beta bug. The data is usually fine — the OS just can’t auto-mount them correctly.

Good news

You can often mount them manually via Terminal and access your files.

Step-by-step workaround

1. Find the disk identifier

Open Terminal and run:

diskutil list

Look for your partition, e.g.:

  • disk5s2
  • disk5s3
  • etc.
2. Create a mount folder (one per partition)

Pick a simple name and create a folder under /Volumes, for example:

sudo mkdir /Volumes/Drive1

You can repeat this for other partitions, e.g.:

sudo mkdir /Volumes/Drive2

sudo mkdir /Volumes/Drive3

3. Mount the partition manually (HFS+)

For each partition, run:

sudo mount -t hfs /dev/disk5s2 /Volumes/Drive1

(Replace disk5s2 and /Volumes/Drive1 with your actual disk ID and folder.)

Repeat for other partitions, e.g.:

sudo mount -t hfs /dev/disk5s3 /Volumes/Drive2

sudo mount -t hfs /dev/disk5s4 /Volumes/Drive3

4. Check it worked

ls /Volumes/Drive1

If you see your files, it’s mounted.

You can also run:

mount

to see all mounted volumes.

Important notes

  • This is a temporary workaround for the beta bug.
  • You may need to repeat this after a reboot.
  • Treat the drive gently:
    • Reading and copying data is fine.
    • Avoid big deletes, moves, or heavy write activity until Apple fixes the bug.
  • Do not reformat unless you already have a verified backup.
When to stop using this

When Apple releases the next beta or a fixed build:

  • Reboot
  • Check if the drives mount normally again
  • If they do, you can go back to using them as usual and delete the temporary folders in /Volumes.
 
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My understanding is that APFS is more efficient for SSDs, but HFS+ is still better for spinning HDDs, where APFS can cause read/write “thrashing” due to the way it distributes catalog information and other metadata.

HDDs are still more cost-effective than SSDs for large external storage, like Time Machine backup disks, secondary local storage, or RAID/NAS.
 
mdcmdcmdc said:
My understanding is that APFS is more efficient for SSDs, but HFS+ is still better for spinning HDDs, where APFS can cause read/write “thrashing” due to the way it distributes catalog information and other metadata.
Click to expand...
Depends on usage pattern. I would not like to use APFS for a HDD system disk - but hopefully nobody has them anymore. Otherwise APFS has been good in my experience of HDD.

mdcmdcmdc said:
HDDs are still more cost-effective than SSDs for large external storage, like Time Machine backup disks, secondary local storage,
Click to expand...
For that APFS works well (enough) and you gain the volume flexibility that you don't get with HFS+ partitions.
mdcmdcmdc said:
or RAID/NAS.
Click to expand...
That is a whole different way of storing data.

How has your experience been of APFS on HDD?
 
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gilby101 said:
For that APFS works well (enough) and you gain the volume flexibility that you don't get with HFS+ partitions.
Click to expand...
Probably true. I don't partition my HDDs so that's not an issue for me.

gilby101 said:
How has your experience been of APFS on HDD?
Click to expand...
Not that extensive, TBH. I got a new HDD for Time Machine a couple of years ago and formatted it as APFS, since that was Disk Utility's default. It had some sort of problem soon after I started using it--I don't remember exactly what and I don't think it was related to APFS--but I had to reformat it and I'd been reading about APFS vs HFS+ for HDDs so I did it as HFS+ and it's been fine since. Again, not very extensive experience, and I don't think the problem it had was related to APFS.
 
Fishrrman said:
2024 Mini m4 here. I normally run it with Sequoia, but I have an experimental/external SSD for Tahoe.

The Tahoe 26.4 developer beta became available yesterday, so I installed it onto my external SSD.

BIG CHANGE. And not for the good.

It now sees all of my HFS+ partitions (on the m4's internal SSD) as "read only".

Up until 26.3, they functioned normally, HFS+ drives, readable and writeable.

When I log in, finder loads and displays this for each HFS+ volume:
View attachment 2605800

I tried opening disk utility, selecting an HFS+ volume, and running "first aid" on it.
Result: drive is unmounted, then du reports failure. But afterwards, I can't even re-mount the drive.

I tried connecting and mounting one of my backup drives (old seagate HDD, formatted to HFS+) -- it, too, appears on the desktop with the same warning, "read only".

Perhaps there is some way around this, using terminal to over-ride the default setting of read-only and again make HFS+ volumes writeable.

But if not, it looks like 26.4 is "the end of the line" for HFS+.

Those who still like and use HFS+ should take care -- if you upgrade to 26.4 (and beyond), those HFS+ drives will no longer be fully "usable".

Could someone else check to see if they experience similar behavior...?
Click to expand...
Yes I experience the same problem. I might mention that I'm not at all happy. Not going to restructure all my HFS volumes. I initially received four notices but upon restart only received two notices. I have four HFS volumes on the Desktop at all times. I did try Disk Utility first aid and they did fail but one was successful on a later try. I booted into Sequia 15.7.5 beta2 and all four HFS mounted drives failed but trying all four again did not fail.
 

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The HFS+ problem appears to have been fixed with developer beta 2.

I just installed the beta.
I then created a test file using Text Edit.
I was able to save the file to the HFS+ partitions on my internal SSD (2024 m4 Mini).

I then connected an external SSD with several HFS+ partitions, and was able to save the test file to the external drive, as well.

So... for now... it appears that the HFS+ "read only" problem has been fixed and HFS+ volumes function normally once again.
 
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Fishrrman said:
The HFS+ problem appears to have been fixed with developer beta 2.

I just installed the beta.
I then created a test file using Text Edit.
I was able to save the file to the HFS+ partitions on my internal SSD (2024 m4 Mini).

I then connected an external SSD with several HFS+ partitions, and was able to save the test file to the external drive, as well.

So... for now... it appears that the HFS+ "read only" problem has been fixed and HFS+ volumes function normally once again.
Click to expand...
I had initially thought Apple intends to make a full transition to APFS before I figured out it's an acknowledged issue in their release notes.
 
I think it's safe to say that HFS+ will be removed at some point, just like HFS, MFS, and floppies.

But given the number of HDDs that are still in service in applications where simply reformatting isn't an option, I hope Apple will broadcast their intent with plenty of warning to developers and sites like MacRumors, and it doesn't simply disappear quietly in a minor "dot" release.
 
mdcmdcmdc said:
I think it's safe to say that HFS+ will be removed at some point, just like HFS, MFS, and floppies.
Click to expand...
I have a 3.5" USB floppy drive and my M4 Mini has no trouble using that to read DOS formatted floppy disks. Being able to read the original 3.5 MacOS formatted floppies is likely another story.
 
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