Doesn't Apple make a Consumer & PRO laptop?

[imorton]

Hi Guys & Girls, I've had MacBooks & MB Pro's, and iPhones since 2007, and I'm disturbed by the direction Apple is taking with this INFATUATION with thinness and stripping away ports.

What I don't understand is:

1) Why isn't the Macbook model the thin & svelte laptop for the average consumer (email, Facebook, Safari, youtube etc...)

2) And the Macbook PRO is the top of the line laptop for business, creative, or power-users (powerful, lots of ram, big hard drives, lots of connectivity, and upgradable etc...).

They have 3 models of iPhones with varying sizes of RAM, to satisfy the majority of users... Why can't they make a CONSUMER laptop, and a real PRO laptop?

I'm a heavy user of multiple programs, and run VM's, and I am just wondering why I would spend $3000+ for a 2016 model, when my mid 2012 MB Pro (connected to an external 24" monitor) with 2x 480GB SSD and 16GB of Ram does the job (or maybe 10% slower than a 2016).

PS: I'm still running Yosemite because I hate dealing with all the bugs that El Capitan & Sierra have introduced.

Thanks for any replies, IAN

 

[therealseebs]

So, long story short: No, not for a while now. It's all consumer-to-prosumer.

See also: Aperture being replaced by Photos. (Projects? Haha, no. You can't sort your images by project or anything else. Your option is date-of-import or manual tagging after the fact.)

Apple is not really interested in the pro market right now.

 

[jackoatmon]

As I've said in another thread, this is the first time Apple's made a legitimate professional laptop. Macbook Pro has gone from "Prosumer" to "Professional" in 2016.

For the first time ever, a Macbook has sufficient GPU specs to keep up with heavy-lifting industrial tasks like 4K video and 3D animation.

 

[imorton]

I guess to use the "New" PRO machines requires some serious workflow planning beforehand... in regards to chargers, adapters, hubs, external monitors, future RAM use, and SSD size etc...

I may have to agree that my workflow (and budget) doesn't warrant a 2016 MB Pro. I don't do any heavy-industrial tasks like 4k video or 3D animation.

 

[daflake]

Apple bailed on the business sector years ago and decided that there was no such thing as a "power user". Basically they want to control all aspects of what and how you do your work.

 

[brynsmith23]

Its a laptop, and for most pro users its fine.

The 16gb Ram is limiting, i don't disagree with that.

I actually like that it's been streamlined, i only have to get a dongle for the things i use, instead of having options that i don't need.

End of the day... it is a laptop.... and designed with battery life in mind.

Most real pro users will be using a desk top in combination with their laptop.

It is still one of the best laptops out there.

 

[therealseebs]

Most of the "real pro users" I know have done their best to avoid needing a completely separate computer, because synchronizing between two machines is a huge pain and waste of resources usually.

I guess that's the fundamental disconnect, though. You say "having options that I don't need" as though it's a problem. But I don't see why it's a problem to have a machine that has a couple of ports I never use, instead of having to have four extra cables that exist only because the machine lacks the ports that I do use.

 

[tubeexperience]

MacBook Pro is now an expensive piece of jewelry rather than a professional tool.

 

[MH01]

As I've said in another thread, this is the first time Apple's made a legitimate professional laptop. Macbook Pro has gone from "Prosumer" to "Professional" in 2016.

For the first time ever, a Macbook has sufficient GPU specs to keep up with heavy-lifting industrial tasks like 4K video and 3D animation.

16GB ram and AMD 460...... in 2016... is this really a genuine professional machine?

 

[UltimateSyn]

"Pro" has always been a marketing term. It distinguishes the MacBook Pros from the rest of the MacBook lineup.

How can you argue with the Pro marketing when it clearly offers many superior features to the standard MacBook and MacBook Air?

Do you actually think that only "professionals" need/want 15" laptops? The term is so ambiguous. Anyone can be a professional, in anything.

These are extremely capable and powerful machines. The MacBook Pro is a "real pro" laptop. You are deciding it isn't because of your definition of "professional."

 

[Starlock]

As I've said in another thread, this is the first time Apple's made a legitimate professional laptop. Macbook Pro has gone from "Prosumer" to "Professional" in 2016.

For the first time ever, a Macbook has sufficient GPU specs to keep up with heavy-lifting industrial tasks like 4K video and 3D animation.

Wtf are you talking about? You plan on doing heavy 4K video editing and 3D animation with 16GB of Ram? You think a laptop with the same Max Ram as we had 5 years ago is a PRO machine?

 

[zhenya]

They do. The current MBP lineup is adequate for 98% of 'professional' (read; workplace) environments. What they don't do is build a chunky workstation replacement. But frankly, they never have. The previous generation 15" MBP was the 'slim and light' mobile workstation - it was 4.5lbs and thin in a world of chunky Dells and Thinkpads which were 6-8lbs to get similar performance. But it had compromises both in connectivity, thermal design, and in how far the specs could be pushed upwards. The new generation is exactly a refinement of that type of laptop. Anyone who had hoped that they would get a full workstation replacement from Apple was looking for something Apple had no intention of building, nor had their previous history given any indication that Apple was planning on ever building.

The only thing that has really changed is that Apple has changed the ports, which has been clearly written on the wall for many years. The Thunderbolt 3 ports have tremendously more bandwidth than any previous port, and they can be dynamically configured to best suit the needs of each individual user. Everyone here is complaining because their port(s) of choice have been removed, but the reality is that no port selection Apple could have made would best suit all users. Including an Ethernet port would have satisfied perhaps a few percent of users a small portion of the time - but keeping it would mean that every user would have to carry that port with them all the time, and it would occupy valuable space, permanently. Many people want HDMI ports, but I have literally never used an HDMI port on any of my laptops, ever. USB-C is a better choice here because it can be converted to HDMI or Displayport as necessary.

If one were to characterize Apple's mission statement for them it would be something along the lines of 'We strive to distill every piece of technology to its most elegantly simplistic form.' The new MBP's are perfectly representative of that mission. If that doesn't appeal to you, you are in luck because nearly every other computer manufacturer builds something you will like.
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Wtf are you talking about? You plan on doing heavy 4K video editing and 3D animation with 16GB of Ram? You think a laptop with the same Max Ram as we had 5 years ago is a PRO machine?

Laptops are a fully mature technology, at the flat plateau at the top of the development curve.

The vast majority of users still do not need more than 16GB of RAM to do their 'professional' work. Apple has chosen to serve the needs of the 98% rather than the niche who needs more than that. And I'm having a hard time believing that someone who needs more than 16GB today would have been comfortable with 16GB or less for the previous 3-4 years. RAM needs have largely leveled off if not even declined over the past 5 years.

 

[UnluckyXIII]

People soon seem to jump down Apples throats over the 2016 MBP but after a week of digesting things, the question I put to people out there is "what do you want to do that the 2016 MBP can't?" - in all honesty it's a very capable machine, people are just pissed that its had a price hike and isn't sporting the best hardware available but it's by no means terrible.

brynsmith23 hit the nail on the head, most pro users are not limited exclusively to their laptop and have a second highend desktop option available (sorry therealseebs but it's 2016, synchronising for the most part is a problem of the past, in today's market with today's technology and the cloud having files available universally is a given).

 

[therealseebs]

People soon seem to jump down Apples throats over the 2016 MBP but after a week of digesting things, the question I put to people out there is "what do you want to do that the 2016 MBP can't?" - in all honesty it's a very capable machine, people are just pissed that its had a price hike and isn't sporting the best hardware available but it's by no means terrible.

What I want to do that it can't do? Keyboard that's actually pleasant to type on and has key travel.

What I want to do that it can't do without elaborate dongles and docks and plugging? Well, gigabit ethernet is the most obvious, but the SD card slot was also a thing. And plugging into all my existing gizmos, for which I had cables that worked with the previous generation laptop, and all of which it theoretically supports. I just need adapters for everything now.

Gaming is a cool feature for me, and I recognize that it's not exactly a "professional" application, but it's a high-performance one, and one Apple's been really bad at for as long as I can remember.

brynsmith23 hit the nail on the head, most pro users are not limited exclusively to their laptop and have a second highend desktop option available (sorry therealseebs but it's 2016, synchronising for the most part is a problem of the past, in today's market with today's technology and the cloud having files available universally is a given).

I have some amount of cloud sync available, but I have way more than 500GB of files, and I don't sync them all through the cloud, and syncing tens of gigabytes to and from remote servers would be a huge pain, and is not something I am likely to do if I can possibly avoid it.

Everyplace I've worked for a while has had One Computer Per Person. You get a computer. You wait a couple of years, you get a replacement computer. Your choice, desktop or laptop. But you don't generally get both. And even if you theoretically have a desktop available (heck, I have racks and racks of computers "available", they're just nowhere near me and don't have displays), it's still more convenient if the laptop can actually do the work.

 

[Barnfather]

Frankly, most 'pros' will get on fine with the new MBP

Real, hard-core 'pro's' who need extreme raw computing power and connectivity, will have machines like the Mac Pro.

 

[2tallyAwesome]

(sorry therealseebs but it's 2016, synchronising for the most part is a problem of the past, in today's market with today's technology and the cloud having files available universally is a given).

Wrong. Now more than ever creative applications are requiring usb licensers to run their programs on multiple machines, and only allowing software licensers if you are using them on a single machine. So while syncing files and projects is more automatic with Dropbox and Google Drive, etc., you still have to carry dongles if you are using multiple machines. AND most are proprietary and don't all work with each other. I carry THREE USB licensers at all times because of this. Hence why the new MBP is even more of a headache.

 

[brynsmith23]

Frankly, most 'pros' will get on fine with the new MBP

Real, hard-core 'pro's' who need extreme raw computing power and connectivity, will have machines like the Mac Pro.

Totally agree, A Macbook Pro will always be limited in CPU, Graphics and Ram compared to a proper desk top like the Mac Pro.

These are the "PRO" users, and a Macbook Pro Laptop compliments them.

It's a bloody good laptop, regardless of if its "PRO" enough.
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Most of the "real pro users" I know have done their best to avoid needing a completely separate computer, because synchronizing between two machines is a huge pain and waste of resources usually.

I guess that's the fundamental disconnect, though. You say "having options that I don't need" as though it's a problem. But I don't see why it's a problem to have a machine that has a couple of ports I never use, instead of having to have four extra cables that exist only because the machine lacks the ports that I do use.

It's up to the individual, it comes down to what you class "PRO" user, if you need high processing power and heaps of ram, a PRO user would us the benefits the raw power of a Mac Pro,

and for the less processing jobs, a Macbook Pro would be great at, like all tools for whatever trade or profession.

There is no one tool to do all jobs efficiently, you need a mix of tools.

Dongles can be a pain, but you only need the ones that you really only ever use, plus the benefits of TB3 are great, time will tell if this was a great or bad move.

People get caught up on the term "PRO", the Macbook Pro is a great laptop, is it for everyone, No, it depends on what you what to do with it.

 

[therealseebs]

So, ignoring the terminology, I think the point is that there's a lot of people who would really like to be able to buy a laptop with specs and performance more comparable to high-end laptops that other vendors make, but run OS X. And Apple could totally sell those people machines that would make them happy. It wouldn't be technically difficult at all to make those machines, compared to what Apple's currently doing.

 

[brynsmith23]

So, ignoring the terminology, I think the point is that there's a lot of people who would really like to be able to buy a laptop with specs and performance more comparable to high-end laptops that other vendors make, but run OS X. And Apple could totally sell those people machines that would make them happy. It wouldn't be technically difficult at all to make those machines, compared to what Apple's currently doing.

Your right, people would buy them, but imagine the cost.... they are dear as it is.

It would be technically possible for apple to increase the size of the chassis and add a heap of go fast goodies.

But as far as i know since 2006, apple hasn't always been ultra high spec in their laptops, it been more about balance with CPU, Ram and battery life.

There are some good High spec windows laptops out there, but without the battery life of the Macbook Pro.

As it is a laptop, not a desk top, battery life is the goal for apple, i don't think we will ever see a change in that.

I personnel don't think they had to make it thinner, at the expense of performance, but Apple is Apple.

The love the Form over Function, and to be fair its not that bad of a laptop.

 

[Mainsail]

As an interesting historical perspective, I recently watched the 2001 iBook keynote, which was launched as a consumer 12in laptop starting at $1299. They offered alternative configurations at $1499 and $1799. Sounds familiar...

Today, Apple's new entry 12 in laptop is the MacBook at $1299. The new MacBook Pro line has a larger 13in screen that starts at $1499. So, after a decade and a half, the prices for Apple's newly released laptops have stayed about the same.....but of course, the products are far superior. The inflation adjusted prices have dropped while the laptops get better and better.

I am not apologizing for Apple.....just pointing out that their current pricing is really consistent with the past.

 

[bigcat]

I would indeed love to see a "performance" line of MBPs from Apple. One where battery life and thinness are not given that much weight. I am connected to power 95% of the day. A desktop machine is not an option. I do think there would be a market for this, and Apple has the resources to do it and make everyone happy. It's just frustrating that they won't.

 

[Ethosik]

Sigh, what the **** is with people? I am seriously getting sick of all the damn complaining all the time. "These aren't pro machines". Really? So Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere Pro, and more completely FAIL to RUN? You cannot do ANYTHING AT ALL with these apps? You guys are seriously saying this right? Do I have some special edition 2013 rMBP that is able to get WORK DONE? Give this a rest people. So I cannot even fire up Xcode and write one line of code either? Okay guys, whatever you say.

Oh and BTW, my 2013 rMBP renders 1080p videos MUCH faster than my 2010 Mac Pro tower.

 

[brynsmith23]

I would indeed love to see a "performance" line of MBPs from Apple. One where battery life and thinness are not given that much weight. I am connected to power 95% of the day. A desktop machine is not an option. I do think there would be a market for this, and Apple has the resources to do it and make everyone happy. It's just frustrating that they won't.

It would be awesome.

your right, there is a small market for this, People would buy it in small numbers, due to the price.

It would be up there in pricing, similar to the Mac Pro's, if not more due to the compact nature of laptops

Imagine the outcry over that pricing.

 

[Ethosik]

According to everyone on this site: The people at my work printing images using Photoshop to clean them up first on 6GB of RAM, core i3 desktops are not professionals. I guess they shouldn't get paid?

 

[brynsmith23]

Sigh, what the **** is with people? I am seriously getting sick of all the damn complaining all the time. "These aren't pro machines". Really? So Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere Pro, and more completely FAIL to RUN? You cannot do ANYTHING AT ALL with these apps? You guys are seriously saying this right? Do I have some special edition 2013 rMBP that is able to get WORK DONE? Give this a rest people. So I cannot even fire up Xcode and write one line of code either? Okay guys, whatever you say.

Oh and BTW, my 2013 rMBP renders 1080p videos MUCH faster than my 2010 Mac Pro tower.

People love to complain, my 2010 Macbook Pro still does the job, its just time for a new one for me.

but like you said, it'll run almost everything, some stuff just needs to be done on a desk top and I'm happy with that, it is just a laptop, and a good one at that.