Including usb-A ports would be easy, they decided they don't want them. And I agree.
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Dongles, let's be serious...
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Including usb-A ports would be easy, they decided they don't want them. And I agree.
The B-CAM thing looks like a SSD from a SoundDevice OLED 4K recorder, the "XAD" is actually an XQD card-reader, both of which just use regular USB-A 3.0 plugs. He was probably adding devices with different form factor to "hyperbolate" his point.
Usb-c is the connector shape future standard, will still come thunderbolt 4 etc but will still use usb-c connector, all "ports" will merge to one cable instead of having tons of different shapes and sizes on cable connectors like the past. Usb-c will be everywhere for next 20 years i guess
And what if you want to connect to a display? What if you need ethernet (my internet provider always has me connect directly to their router whenever there are issues)? What if you need a card reader? Oh, and let's add the Griffin MagSafe replacement because Apple apparently no longer cares if we knock our laptops to the floor so that they can be a few mm thinner.
And don't forget to add another $200 for an extra 8 GB of RAM and another $200 to go to from a 256 GB to a 512 GB SSD.
There's no point continuing this line of discussion. If you want to accede to Apple's predatory pricing, be my guest, but there's room for valid criticism by others.
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We don't really know. There certainly hasn't been that kind of stability in the past.
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What? The USB-A connector started being used in devices in 1996 and started really taking hold in 2000. It's basically 20 years old at this point.
No issue with valid criticism, yours are invalid though. You've been whining about the pricing this whole thread starting with "why don't they include a $9 dongle (or four)". Did you just learn a new phrase in a business article? "Predatory pricing" applies to drug companies overcharging for drugs that poor sick people need to live or inflated milk prices for single mothers. It does not apply to a company that sells premium devices to d-bags like us. MBP's have never been a good "value". They are a for profit company in the free market. You have a choice not to buy from them because of their outrageous pricing. Stop feeling entitled to an overpriced computer. No one is, it's a choice you pay for. There is a difference between need and WANT. Hence your "predatory pricing" statement is childish and asinine.
"What if I need this or that"? What if I don't? Or why don't I just buy a dock? Usb-c has given us lots of choices and a smaller package in exchange for more spend. Good trade for me. It is not a black and white case of they made a bad decision like you anti MBP crowd make. Why is it hard for you to believe that some of us like many of the decisions they made without ignorant accusations of "acceding to predatory pricing". Little bit dramatic, no?
And how exactly would you feel if when you got your train tomorrow there were no seats on it. Because someone had decided that it was better for all concerned if you stood all the way for your journey. I am sure you would be delighted with the progress.
Your post would be apropos if Mac users / buyers were not made aware, (before purchase) what features would be included on the new Macs.
No, it is not that expensive to purchase a few dongles, or perhaps tedious to keep track of them for use on the rare occasion. It is a compromise that may make sense in a model like the MacBook, with customers who use ports infrequently. Although many of them would seem to prefer a second USB-C port, at minimum. However . . .
Despite what Tim Cook might think, we do not live in a totally wireless world, save perhaps within spaceship Apple. Especially for models marketed as 'Pro,' ports are required and used on a regular basis. Large files are not practical to transmit wirelessly, etc.
While lovely in concept to have one common port which works for everything, in practice today and years to come having only that access is a bad compromise and downgrade. Apple would have been better advised to add one or two USB-C ports to those existing. Therein lies customer choice and satisfaction.
Not all ports are created equal and if those who use and would miss ethernet have a point, everyone does with the elimination of MagSafe. Some claim not to miss it, that it disconnected too easily, etc. But it is a brilliant innovation, simple to use, a pleasure so, as well a sound safety feature. Apple has a lot to apologize for in just this move, aside from all else with the 2016 MBP.
If this is subjective, my feeling the USB-C connection isn't particularly well engineered. Yes, a solid connection, if arguably too much so; it has to be physically pushed firmly in, near yanked out. If Apple was so keen on one common port perhaps they should have designed it from the ground up to be near flawless in all respects, including the intangible of feel, of touch and usage. One of the little refinements they used to be known for. If protesting they could not as adopting this existing common standard, really? They have no problem forcing their customers—and presumably larger market—in whatever direction they like.
Then there seem to be mentions of USB-C being a hackers delight in ready access to the greater computer. Unlike, it seems, all the existing ports to one degree or another. That includes paying attention to power sources used, provenance of—never before an issue with MagSafe.
Only lately I was watching a Mac-centric podcast with video powered through a 2016 MBP. In pointing to some text to highlight a point the host was perplexed to find it shaking about. Took a moment or two to sort that out by switching out one dongle for another. It is not so much having to purchase any number of dongles, keep track of same and use them which will aggravate customers, but situations similar to that mentioned where "It Just Works" does not apply. These things have different complex standards to begin with, which will prove confusing to many. Not to mention a wide range of capabilities and quality. Forcing customers to rely solely on USB-C, particularly at this juncture, is just asking for ongoing problems and distress.
Considering the other features of the 2016 MBP, the subtraction to USB-C only rather fits it. Only those Apple customers who are not masochists should retain the option of purchasing a real MacBook Pro.
Despite what Tim Cook might think, we do not live in a totally wireless world, save perhaps within spaceship Apple. Especially for models marketed as 'Pro,' ports are required and used on a regular basis. Large files are not practical to transmit wirelessly, etc.
While lovely in concept to have one common port which works for everything, in practice today and years to come having only that access is a bad compromise and downgrade. Apple would have been better advised to add one or two USB-C ports to those existing. Therein lies customer choice and satisfaction.
Not all ports are created equal and if those who use and would miss ethernet have a point, everyone does with the elimination of MagSafe. Some claim not to miss it, that it disconnected too easily, etc. But it is a brilliant innovation, simple to use, a pleasure so, as well a sound safety feature. Apple has a lot to apologize for in just this move, aside from all else with the 2016 MBP.
If this is subjective, my feeling the USB-C connection isn't particularly well engineered. Yes, a solid connection, if arguably too much so; it has to be physically pushed firmly in, near yanked out. If Apple was so keen on one common port perhaps they should have designed it from the ground up to be near flawless in all respects, including the intangible of feel, of touch and usage. One of the little refinements they used to be known for. If protesting they could not as adopting this existing common standard, really? They have no problem forcing their customers—and presumably larger market—in whatever direction they like.
Then there seem to be mentions of USB-C being a hackers delight in ready access to the greater computer. Unlike, it seems, all the existing ports to one degree or another. That includes paying attention to power sources used, provenance of—never before an issue with MagSafe.
Only lately I was watching a Mac-centric podcast with video powered through a 2016 MBP. In pointing to some text to highlight a point the host was perplexed to find it shaking about. Took a moment or two to sort that out by switching out one dongle for another. It is not so much having to purchase any number of dongles, keep track of same and use them which will aggravate customers, but situations similar to that mentioned where "It Just Works" does not apply. These things have different complex standards to begin with, which will prove confusing to many. Not to mention a wide range of capabilities and quality. Forcing customers to rely solely on USB-C, particularly at this juncture, is just asking for ongoing problems and distress.
Considering the other features of the 2016 MBP, the subtraction to USB-C only rather fits it. Only those Apple customers who are not masochists should retain the option of purchasing a real MacBook Pro.
I misused the phrase "predatory pricing" but you also don't know what it means: "the pricing of goods or services at such a low level that other suppliers cannot compete and are forced to leave the market." Obviously not applicable to Apple.
You keep trivializing people's issues with the new MB Pros down to a $9 dongle, when there is more to it than that.
And talk about whining !
That was a relatively rational POV. Much better than hearing about pricing over and over. However, what you guys always miss is the possibility that this brave new MBP world works better for a lot of us. Not you in particular, but some just can't fathom that these choices benefit some of us. You won't please everyone, but I can speak for myself that it pleases me, and it's not about falling into the Apple line because I must have the latest MBP. My last MBP was an '09 so I clearly don't fall into that camp.
Yes, Apple was presumptuous and arrogant in deciding what was best for the MBP. But when people start to realize the benefits, maybe you all won't be so mad. It's not perfect and comes with growing pains, but again, it is much better for some of us. You've noted a lot of the downsides, some are valid for me, some are completely irrelevant. Not everyone uses these the same way and Apple has made the bet that most people use it the way they intended for this iteration.
Like many of the con arguments, you mention all of the worst possible case scenarios. These are just not that common for most. I for one do not travel with 5 dongles. I have a dock, and I travel with a single, one inch long usb-c to a adapter. In my '09 MBP, I used each of the ports a few times over the 7 years I had them. Yet I had to carry the weight and bulk of the ports ALL the time. I had no choice then. This is a mobile device after all, it's meant to be carried and used for most common tasks, not the absolute most taxing tasks. How many of us are constantly transferring files in and out of our computer? Photographers and editors pretty much. They are not the majority of MBP users. And as a matter of fact, they can do their transfers faster than ever before (see photographer thread). Anyone needing to do presentations on a big screen always carried a dongle or two anyway because of the plethora of video standards out there. Most projectors I've seen still use vga. No change for presenters. The vast majority of people use wifi 100% of the time. The small minority that don't can use a dongle. I no longer have 3-5 cables or attachments sticking out of my MBP to attach and reattach every time I go mobile, just a single cable. The dongle argument really is lame except for a minority of people. Magsafe really didn't benefit EVERYONE as people like to claim. My cord was never tripped over, and I don't know of any Windows PC's that have similar function. Not end of the world. Hacking through usb-c power? Kind of a stretch and no more real than any other hack.
You can nitpick the downsides, but I have a hard time believing they are realistic and apply to most users. I just would like the naysayers to realize that the new MBP is a very WELCOME change to some of us. The 2015 is great, keep it for a couple or few years. That doesn't mean we should all buy last year's model when the 2016 actually benefits us. Yes, they jacked up the price. Depending on how you use the MBP, it's an ROI equation and may not be relevant. If Apple had listened to ME, I would have made it a little different, but honestly just a little. My only point, please try to consider that it actually works really well for some of us, and I am not a masochist, quite the contrary.
Good comeback dude. I guess this conversation has devolved as expected. Gofundme, look into it. Peace.
Kind of. The new Mac uses TB3/USB C and has a headphone jack. The new iPhone uses a lightning and has no headphone jack. If they are going to throw down the gauntlet, they should at least do it across all of their products.
I use a single "dongle" which is the USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter from Apple. And even then I only use it when I sit down to do major amounts of work in my home office. Lights up my monitor, provides power, and my USB3 hub fires up my accessories. The rest of the time I only occasionally pull out the $9 USB dongle on rare occasions, but 99% of the time I work directly on the laptop with only the charging cable in. Eventually I'll get a Bizon Box for the home office setup and use that for gaming and eGPU-enabled editing and rendering as needed.
Despite the theoretical usefulness of the port, my feeling the wholesale switch to USB-C will have more than a few teething issues.
That said, you are no doubt correct that some find the 2016 MBP welcome and largely as they like. USB-C aside, if the issues with battery life, dGPU, etc. prove fleeting, then that will remain the sentiment for a segment of customers. Should they prove the majority of MBP customers, then Apple's way forward is clear, as seems their intention.
Exactly. The USB-A port has been the same shape for 20 years. So we've become comfortable with it.
But USB wasn't exactly "universal" if you really think about it.
While the host-end of the cable was always USB-A... the device-end of the cable always had multiple plugs. USB-B, USB-Mini-B, USB-Micro-B, USB 3.0 Micro-B, etc.
But this is the first time the host-end has changed in its entire 20 year history. And that's where the issue is.
It was a good run though. They went as far as they could with USB-A. While they were able to cram a few extra pins into USB-A when USB 3.0 was introduced (9 pins vs 4 pins)... it was still limited. There was nowhere else it could go.
But now we've got a smaller reversible plug in USB-C... with 24 pins... and it can be almost anything. Including Thunderbolt! And power! Power, data, video... from one plug.
We're really on the verge of "one port to rule them all". Finally! This is how it should be... instead of various plugs for different things.
Of course there will be some growing pains. But I think it's necessary.
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+1. I'm not gonna lie, I experienced the teething issues first hand. I tried different cables for different things, but they're all resolved now. So in my case, usb-c is past the "theoretical" useful stage and is now just friggin useful! YMMV depending on peripherals.
I see where both sides are coming from, but saying "get a better job and pay for the dongle" seems a bit fanboyish and anti-consumer to me.
I also understand that Apple is a business out to make money; however, if Apple can provide a free dongle with an iPhone, they can provide a free dongle with a $1500-$4200 laptop.
I also understand that Apple is a business out to make money; however, if Apple can provide a free dongle with an iPhone, they can provide a free dongle with a $1500-$4200 laptop.
Thanks man, fanboy here. That douchey line only comes out when people keep feeling entitled to get "fair" pricing for what is in all fairness a luxury item. It's not food or gasoline or god forbid internet. No one NEEDS this computer. They just WANT it at their price point. You can do anything on a WinPC that you can with this, albeit less elegantly. Your dreams will come true in the next revision when they will lower their price. Everyone knows this, but I have an odd feeling people will still bitch about that price too. Yes, they could have provided a free dongle. But who really cares. It's not a point that needs to be brought up repeatedly when discussing all of the good and bad about this computer. There is so much to discuss with this major change, problems to solve, experiences to share. Are you all on the BMW forums complaining about pricing or the exclusion of some free accessories?
for me this port setup is way better than before, i always thought the macbooks was so limited in only having 2 usb3 ports, had to buy a thunderbolt external harddrive for my old computer because i was out of usb ports for is one example on why 2 was crappy
and everyone have their own way to handle the donglelife. for me it aint no problem at all
sold that 256gb thunderbolt drive for 200 euro and bought a new 500gb samsung t3 drive thats faster and have usb-c, for same price, i always use wireless mouse and keyboard if at a monitor, and will get the new 5K LG monitor when its released and get a 4TB lacie usb-c drive connected on the monitor hub as a storage and backup drive.
Ethernet i never need, wifi on this thing is very nice, i get 450 mbit/s, full speed of my internet provider.
im a photographer and never used the sd slot, find it easier to just use the cable to transfer files. And the camera has a micro usb port as outgoing, so ill just replace that cable with microusb-> usb-c.
in the very rare case i need to use a thumbdrive i see no problem in having 1 of the usb adapters apple sells, soon those drives will all be usb-c anyways.
but i can see the point that ppl can get irritated that they went all in on a new standard directly.. but there is workarounds. And way worth the trouble for a much more versatile and powerful and faster in/out config
and i love new tech and happily sell my old stuff to get new better and faster equipment, money is made to be used
and everyone have their own way to handle the donglelife. for me it aint no problem at all
sold that 256gb thunderbolt drive for 200 euro and bought a new 500gb samsung t3 drive thats faster and have usb-c, for same price, i always use wireless mouse and keyboard if at a monitor, and will get the new 5K LG monitor when its released and get a 4TB lacie usb-c drive connected on the monitor hub as a storage and backup drive.
Ethernet i never need, wifi on this thing is very nice, i get 450 mbit/s, full speed of my internet provider.
im a photographer and never used the sd slot, find it easier to just use the cable to transfer files. And the camera has a micro usb port as outgoing, so ill just replace that cable with microusb-> usb-c.
in the very rare case i need to use a thumbdrive i see no problem in having 1 of the usb adapters apple sells, soon those drives will all be usb-c anyways.
but i can see the point that ppl can get irritated that they went all in on a new standard directly.. but there is workarounds. And way worth the trouble for a much more versatile and powerful and faster in/out config
and i love new tech and happily sell my old stuff to get new better and faster equipment, money is made to be used
Personally I don't mind it that much, but still feel like 2 TB3 + 1 USB-A + 1 HDMI would've been a way better choice.
They've killed ethernet and DVD/CD on the Pro in 2012, both were far closer to obsolescence than USB-A is in 2016.
Another thing is that most people used DVD/CD and wired ethernet stationary for the most part anyway, for these use cases dongles weren't a huge issue.
Today pretty much every single wired peripheral other than displays is USB-A, even the adapters for non-USB-things are USB-A. You start getting into chaining dongles pretty quickly and I know lots of people who won't leave the house without a USB-A and HDMI dongle.
When i go to work, I have to plug in one power to one port, 1 dongle for monitor 1, 1 for monitor 2, and another one for network because the wireless won't allow two ip's assigned to one physical mac (vm is in bridged mode). That's all of my usb-c ports gone. I have had 0 luck on any multiport adapters. Even the apple made a/v adapter with hdmi, power, and usb is flakey. Any time my monitor goes to sleep I have to unplug and replug the adapter and wait 15 seconds while the screens flash back and forth while things sync up. Single port adapters don't have this problem. Hopefully this will be fixed and more hub type adapters will work and I won't have to rely on separate ports for each connection. Even though they've had an entire year to get this working with the macbook, it's not there yet. So, in my opinion, I get where they are going and I believe it's the right choice but when it comes to ports I expect these things to work 99.9% of the time. Right now it's more like 50%. Take it for what it's worth.
If more and more people all complain about the same basic wants and needs it then becomes more than and issue of whining or weeping.
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Wow. Tough room.
[doublepost=1480647576][/doublepost]Funniest part of this thread is the whining, attacks, and counter attacks about a "Dongle".
Personally I feel if all the new MBP's came with a tin foil hat to improve WiFi reception there would be arguing and personal attacks about how genius it is, how important it is, and then there would be those complaining about having to spend $45 on a Apple branded tin foil hat, when they could make their own for 50 cents.
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