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No, it is not that expensive to purchase a few dongles, or perhaps tedious to keep track of them for use on the rare occasion. It is a compromise that may make sense in a model like the MacBook, with customers who use ports infrequently. Although many of them would seem to prefer a second USB-C port, at minimum. However . . .


Despite what Tim Cook might think, we do not live in a totally wireless world, save perhaps within spaceship Apple. Especially for models marketed as 'Pro,' ports are required and used on a regular basis. Large files are not practical to transmit wirelessly, etc.

While lovely in concept to have one common port which works for everything, in practice today and years to come having only that access is a bad compromise and downgrade. Apple would have been better advised to add one or two USB-C ports to those existing. Therein lies customer choice and satisfaction.

Not all ports are created equal and if those who use and would miss ethernet have a point, everyone does with the elimination of MagSafe. Some claim not to miss it, that it disconnected too easily, etc. But it is a brilliant innovation, simple to use, a pleasure so, as well a sound safety feature. Apple has a lot to apologize for in just this move, aside from all else with the 2016 MBP.

If this is subjective, my feeling the USB-C connection isn't particularly well engineered. Yes, a solid connection, if arguably too much so; it has to be physically pushed firmly in, near yanked out. If Apple was so keen on one common port perhaps they should have designed it from the ground up to be near flawless in all respects, including the intangible of feel, of touch and usage. One of the little refinements they used to be known for. If protesting they could not as adopting this existing common standard, really? They have no problem forcing their customers—and presumably larger market—in whatever direction they like.

Then there seem to be mentions of USB-C being a hackers delight in ready access to the greater computer. Unlike, it seems, all the existing ports to one degree or another. That includes paying attention to power sources used, provenance of—never before an issue with MagSafe.

Only lately I was watching a Mac-centric podcast with video powered through a 2016 MBP. In pointing to some text to highlight a point the host was perplexed to find it shaking about. Took a moment or two to sort that out by switching out one dongle for another. It is not so much having to purchase any number of dongles, keep track of same and use them which will aggravate customers, but situations similar to that mentioned where "It Just Works" does not apply. These things have different complex standards to begin with, which will prove confusing to many. Not to mention a wide range of capabilities and quality. Forcing customers to rely solely on USB-C, particularly at this juncture, is just asking for ongoing problems and distress.

Considering the other features of the 2016 MBP, the subtraction to USB-C only rather fits it. Only those Apple customers who are not masochists should retain the option of purchasing a real MacBook Pro.

I'm a pro and I live in a wireless world. What's the issue?
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Kind of. The new Mac uses TB3/USB C and has a headphone jack. The new iPhone uses a lightning and has no headphone jack. If they are going to throw down the gauntlet, they should at least do it across all of their products.

What a strange and arbitrary requirement. An iPhone having (or not having) a certain feature or port doesn't mean their computers should be identical. Why would it? What is the motivation, other than some desire for apparent consistency, to make a laptop and smartphone have exactly the same set of ports? Should the MacBook Pro have a smart connector since the iPad Pro has one?
 
I'm a pro and I live in a wireless world. What's the issue?
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What a strange and arbitrary requirement. An iPhone having (or not having) a certain feature or port doesn't mean their computers should be identical. Why would it? What is the motivation, other than some desire for apparent consistency, to make a laptop and smartphone have exactly the same set of ports? Should the MacBook Pro have a smart connector since the iPad Pro has one?

What is strange and arbitrary about it? Apple lectured us about how it took courage to get rid of the headphone jack, yet didn't get rid of it on their laptops. Is the phone division more courageous than the laptop division? They charge us a premium for stuff that "just works" yet we must buy extra cables to make two brand new products released by them "just work" together.
 
What is strange and arbitrary about it? Apple lectured us about how it took courage to get rid of the headphone jack, yet didn't get rid of it on their laptops. Is the phone division more courageous than the laptop division? They charge us a premium for stuff that "just works" yet we must buy extra cables to make two brand new products released by them "just work" together.

Again, why ignore the actual differences between a phone and a laptop (and how those differences impact the keeping/removal of the aux port) just to make some half-baked joke about courage?
 
Again, why ignore the actual differences between a phone and a laptop (and how those differences impact the keeping/removal of the aux port) just to make some half-baked joke about courage?

Do headphones somehow work differently on a phone than a laptop? Can you not use the exact same headphones on each for the exact same purpose? Of course you can, so my point was very much spot on. Apple just makes me use an adapter cable on the iPhone.
 
Do headphones somehow work differently on a phone than a laptop? Can you not use the exact same headphones on each for the exact same purpose? Of course you can, so my point was very much spot on. Apple just makes me use an adapter cable on the iPhone.

Is a phone not much smaller than a laptop? Is the amount of space saved by not including an aux port in a phone not a much larger percentage of the total volume of the device? Is it not the case that Apple already has an alternative port that can play achieve the same thing? Is it not the case that Apple already bundles free headphones with their iPhone and so it's easier to help people transition to lightning/wireless headphones? Is it not the case that a truly wireless device is a more proximate goal for the smart phone than a laptop?

Please tell me, are any or all of those things true?
 
The thing that's really pissing me off is how many websites/reviewers are attempting to demonstrate the existence of a "dongle problem" by attempting to plug 20 devices into their computer and then saying "OMG look how messy all these cables are". How is that any less messy on any other laptop?

In the image below from Austin Evans review, he's trying to plug in 2 external hard drives, 1 SD Card, 1 external display, 1 External optical drive, and 2 additional USB-A items (I can't tell what the black boxes are labeled B CAM or XAD). Then he claims that this is a problem that the new MacBook Pro has and that this is a problem for Pros since they regularly connect this many devices.

How is this simpler to connect to a computer with a more "conventional" set of ports, though? The SD card could go in an SD card slot instead of an adapter. Sure, that eliminates one dongle. But he's still trying to connect 6 USB-A ports to a laptop and a display cable. Which computers have 6 USB-A ports and, therefore, wouldn't need to use hubs? On the previous generation of the MacBook Pro, for example, I'm pretty sure the only cable you could eliminate from this setup is the SD Card dongle.

If Apple had released a dock at the same time as the computer itself the wouldn't have to deal with these pictures or the forum complaints. The ACD used to fill that role but now that it's gone there isn't much and nothing first party.
 
If all those ports and MagSafe were removed, requiring additional purchases, then maybe the price of the laptop should have been reduced, not increased.

How much do you have to spend on buying a USB C capable hard drive? How much would that cost?

How much does a USB C to USB Micro-B (USB 3.0) CABLE to convert the same hard drive permanently to USB C? $20 max?


If you're a professional, spending $60 for USB C to Display Port and/or HDMI and/or SD card hub isn't a big deal, no? You will make it back in the first week.

This doesn't make sense. A better, faster port which FUTURE PROOFS your INVESTMENT...not sure why you're complaining...
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Apple is not being forward thinking, alturistic or any of that stuff. Their only thoughts are for esthetics and profit.

How to make money? Not having to spend engineers time to include usb-A ports. Don't have to spend engineering time doing testing. Fewer devices to test or support. Not just during the initial development but for the lifespan of this form factor. Don't later modify case manufacturing to switch the usb-a port(s) to usb-c. Increase volume discount on usb-c port items.

Apple has high profit margins by having a very simplified streamlined model lineup and only selling to the premium (higher margin) part of market. They also keep models with minimal updates for years. Compare with the other computer makers. The others sell from <$200 to the sky is the limit. Apple only sells to volume markets and has limited interest in smaller market options. Witness Pro and Mini and Airport/TimeCapsule. Look how rarely Apple updates models. Sometimes skipping processor generations rather than updating. Apple has an obsession with cost cutting and minimizing mfgr costs. By keeping using older cpu's by extending cycles they get cheaper chip prices.

Compare to other makers like HP, Lenovo, Dell that sell to many markets and frequently update models when processor changes, gpu changes, etc. They sell to more parts of the market.

If Apple allowed selling of computers that ran it's operating system their market share would plummet. It's the OS and it's perceived cache that keeps their market. If Microsoft can avoid the idiot missteps like bob/ME/Vista/8 with 10 and Apple keeps it's blinders on they will lose lots of market share.

Reality is, sadly, that pc's are not a minor part of the company and barely of notice to the management. They have been seduced by their profits from the iPhone. Now they seem to have been infected with the wall street disease of only caring about the part of your company that contributes the most to the company in a $$$ of the moment. Ignoring past and future. Wouldn't be surprised if in 30 years Apple morphed and didn't make any electronic devices but was the world's largest maker of legal Marijuana cigarettes.
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Customers expecting a company to produce products they want and need compared to genuflecting and worshiping the corporate tablets.

You're acting like USB C is an Apple proprietary port. Take a look around. EVERYBODY is moving towards USB C. In a few years when EVERYTHING uses the USB C port, will this still be a bad move? Or do you want to wait until everyone else uses it before we see a MBP with it?
 
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I wish that term single would go away, they're not dongles...they're adapters. They adapt one source to another source, not dongle one source to another...lol.

Besides these new adapters offer more flexibility on connecting multiple sources than having finite built in ports.
 
Depends, if you found this useful

macbookpro-17.jpg


yeah Dongles are an issue of you, especially carrying them around.

If you have never seen the image above or used that generation or generations around it, what dongle issue.....
 
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The problem with that generation was that they stuck the ports so close together that you couldn't use them all. Even my 2010 15" MBP, which had fewer ports than that and no shortage of space, had the 2 USB-A so close together that all but the thinnest USB peripherals would block the neighbouring port. That is the type of inattention to usability from Apple that does annoy me.
 
I wish that term single would go away, they're not dongles...they're adapters. They adapt one source to another source, not dongle one source to another...lol.

Besides these new adapters offer more flexibility on connecting multiple sources than having finite built in ports.
The term "dongle" also refers to the rather cumbersome form factor.

While it is true that a simple adaptor cable does exist for all sorts of USB-C to whatever older port, but for someone to go that route it would mean replacing all his existing cables, which adds up in cost. On the other hand, even if you do a full transition yourself, you may still need to have adaptors ready if your work involves using other people's devices or using your MBP in other environments that you control. In this case a literal "dongle" adaptor with one side USB-C and the other side a female port of something else is needed. This adds x2 number of needed adaptors.

In other words, while it is possible to streamline usage of the new MBP with other devices with clean cables, but in order to remain readily compatible as much as possible you likely will need to have more dongles than not.
 
Again, why ignore the actual differences between a phone and a laptop (and how those differences impact the keeping/removal of the aux port) just to make some half-baked joke about courage?
But Apple didn't say "look, we thought the phone being thin is really important for our design goals, and as such we don't have room in the iPhone for a 3.5mm jack, so we decided not to put it - but here are some wireless alternatives". We could still deplore the choice, but nobody could accuse them of hypocrisy if they had just said so.

Instead, they gave that whole speech about how the 3.5mm jack was obsolete, 100-year old tech etc, and how they have the courage to do away with it. This is the problem. If they actually believed what they said, there was absolutely no reason to put the headphone jack in the new Macbooks and instead they should have pushed the wireless solutions, previously touted as the future of audio.

So yeah, since they were so fake and hypocritical (which they usually are), but tripped over their own marketing hyperboles (which they usually don't), we can joke about "courage".
 
While it is true that a simple adaptor cable does exist for all sorts of USB-C to whatever older port, but for someone to go that route it would mean replacing all his existing cables, which adds up in cost.

It depends on how many cables/adapters they need.

Do they have 17 devices that they use concurrently... thus the need to buy 17 new USB-C cables? :)

Or do they simply have an external hard drive or two?

This general attitude of "ZOMG it'll be SO expensive to replace ALL mah cablez" is kinda silly.

They probably only need one or two new cables. If that.

Let's not forget that their previous MacBook Pro only had two USB ports. So they probably weren't plugging too many things in at once anyway.

you may still need to have adaptors ready if your work involves using other people's devices or using your MBP in other environments that you control. In this case a literal "dongle" adaptor with one side USB-C and the other side a female port of something else is needed. This adds x2 number of needed adaptors... in order to remain readily compatible as much as possible you likely will need to have more dongles than not.

As above... they might need just one or two cables/adapters for themselves and to plug into other people's computers. And they can keep them in the same place that the cables belong already... in the laptop bag pocket or little hard drive case or whatever. An additional 6" cable won't break your back.

And before anyone says "dongles are just one more thing to misplace"...

Why would the dongle be any more prone to getting lost than the cable itself? Just leave the dongle in the bag or case until you need it.

One of these can certainly hold two cables... or one cable and a tiny dongle/adapter or whatever.

4CG9kAG.jpg
 
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Maybe, but there are a lot of (not nearly as vocal) people who would just throw that away and see it as waste. I'm one of them. I'm of the opinion if you have even a single dongle you're probably doing it wrong.

I have *one*, read it *ONE* device that doesn't have a USB-C/thunderbolt cable out for it now (Suunto Spartan GPS Watch), so it has a USB-A to USB-C permanently affixed to it (I may even get freaky and just solder a USB-C end on it).

Drives, Phones, Tablets, frankly anything that is USB has a USB-C/Thunderbolt cable for it.

Buy the cables you need. No dongle problem anymore.

Why would I want Apple sending me dongles in the box I'm just going to throw away? It's neither ecological nor economical. I've handed off all the obsolete USB-A cables to friends/employees/family who still have a use and it's no fuss.

If you're so ecological why did you by a macbook? If they had added a USB-A/HDMI almost no dongles adapters are needed. Secondly it is made of aluminium, one of the most energy intensive metals to make. It takes 10x more energy to make than steel.
 
Well OP of course people complain:

- It's extra cost and not necessarily as cheap as you mention depending where you live (I'm in Norway)
- It looks stupid, especially with USB keys
- It breaks the nice aesthetics we're used too on a mac
- It causes performance issues : no 4k@60Hz possible on the HDMI adapter I bought on goddamn Apple site
- It causes other problems, for instance see thread about external screen not getting out of sleep. I have this problem it's VERY annoying.
- You paid this extra price for...what exactly ?
What possible benefit do you have to have 4 USB-C, and NOT have an HDMI output to connect to most TV / projectors or not a normal USB or not a goddamn lightning port for your iPhone, or its new headphones ?
Size ?
I don't believe it. Plus the reduction in size compared to the 2015 model is almost invisible.
Not having adapters when all the hardware around you is update in 4-6 years ?
Yeah well thank you very much all those years of carrying adapters will finally pay when I'm ready to buy a new machine and new ports are available (TB4 or something else).

This was a dumb decision, ONLY for money and maintain the hype. They could very well had 2 USB-C, even 3, and have the other ports.
 
Take a look around. EVERYBODY is moving towards USB C. In a few years when EVERYTHING uses the USB C port, will this still be a bad move? Or do you want to wait until everyone else uses it before we see a MBP with it?

In a few years, you might be looking to replace your 2016 MB Pro anyhow.
 
This whole dongle/adapter discussion is getting tiresome. I can understand the people who miss the standard ports. I also can understand the people that like having the four USB-C ports. What I can't understand is what objection the latter group would have to some standard ports being included along with the USB-C's (my 2011 MB Pro for example has standard ports plus a then new-fangled Thunderbolt 1 port). Is it that the laptop would have had to be a little thicker?
 
But Apple didn't say "look, we thought the phone being thin is really important for our design goals, and as such we don't have room in the iPhone for a 3.5mm jack, so we decided not to put it - but here are some wireless alternatives". We could still deplore the choice, but nobody could accuse them of hypocrisy if they had just said so.

Instead, they gave that whole speech about how the 3.5mm jack was obsolete, 100-year old tech etc, and how they have the courage to do away with it. This is the problem. If they actually believed what they said, there was absolutely no reason to put the headphone jack in the new Macbooks and instead they should have pushed the wireless solutions, previously touted as the future of audio.

So yeah, since they were so fake and hypocritical (which they usually are), but tripped over their own marketing hyperboles (which they usually don't), we can joke about "courage".


I don't think they can remove the headphone jack on computers yet because many professionals need it for their work. Bluetooth still has lag when watching videos, and that would make it very difficult for professionals who are doing video to stitch audio and video together. Maybe Apple should've put in a lightning port so that you can use your iPhone headphones with your computer. But removing the jack and going completely wireless requires Bluetooth to be flawless, which it is not. For phones it's not that much of a deal breaker since not many people are making/editing stuff on them. I do wish that Apple would have some continuity though aka the lightning earpods.
 
I don't think they can remove the headphone jack on computers yet because many professionals need it for their work. Bluetooth still has lag when watching videos, and that would make it very difficult for professionals who are doing video to stitch audio and video together. Maybe Apple should've put in a lightning port so that you can use your iPhone headphones with your computer. But removing the jack and going completely wireless requires Bluetooth to be flawless, which it is not. For phones it's not that much of a deal breaker since not many people are making/editing stuff on them. I do wish that Apple would have some continuity though aka the lightning earpods.
That's not the point. It's a simple one: they didn't announce the removal of the 3.5mm jack as a mere design or style choice, they rubbished it completely and said it was obsolete tech, time to move on etc.

You can't do that and later include it in a product you also claim to be state-of-the-art (after all, they removed all other today's connectivity ports) without looking at best erratic, at worst a fool to be laughed about.

BTW, putting in a lightning connector would have been an insane move. It would essentially declare that only iPhone owners should look at these laptops, and gratuitously restricted the potential market to the niche of a niche.

I know one customer they lost because of the complete exclusion of USB-A connectivity (in some cases, a dongle just won't do). They'd have certainly lost me too if they included a useless lightning connector instead of a 3.5mm jack.
 
BTW, putting in a lightning connector would have been an insane move. It would essentially declare that only iPhone owners should look at these laptops, and gratuitously restricted the potential market to the niche of a niche.

I agree with your lightning port on Mac comment BUT....................

Apple, apple, apple... Why, why, why?

IF Apple is so committed to USB C then why do their new offerings NOT ship with USB C other than the Mac? If USB C is it, then axe the lightning connection all together.. The iPhone 7 should have USB C and the just released AirPods and Apple Watch (series 1 and 2) should be USB C.. They are not!
 
That's not the point. It's a simple one: they didn't announce the removal of the 3.5mm jack as a mere design or style choice, they rubbished it completely and said it was obsolete tech, time to move on etc.

You can't do that and later include it in a product you also claim to be state-of-the-art (after all, they removed all other today's connectivity ports) without looking at best erratic, at worst a fool to be laughed about.

BTW, putting in a lightning connector would have been an insane move. It would essentially declare that only iPhone owners should look at these laptops, and gratuitously restricted the potential market to the niche of a niche.

I know one customer they lost because of the complete exclusion of USB-A connectivity (in some cases, a dongle just won't do). They'd have certainly lost me too if they included a useless lightning connector instead of a 3.5mm jack.

I do agree that Apple went about presenting the idea of the headphone jack removal the wrong way and the fact that they introduced the port after announcing it's obsolescence is stupid. But like I said before they really don't have a choice when it comes to the MacBook Pro because they still need a viable way for professionals to plug in headphones.

I think if Apple were really serious about killing off the headphone jack they should have removed the port and replaced it with a lightning port. Just like the iPhone you would just need an adapter to convert it to a 3.5mm jack. Your point about only marketing to iPhone owners only isn't too much of an issue since an adapter would be present. Yes, it's another adapter to worry about, but at this point if you flip sides the MacBook Pro isn't very friendly for iPhone 7/7+ users. I don't think it's wrong for a company to create an ecosystem that locks people in. Sure it's not consumer friendly, but the ultimate goal of a tech company is to keep customers within their ecosystem so that they will continue buying their products. Now given that, I don't think a lightning port/headphone jack will really make a break an average consumer's decision to buy a product.
 
Removing the headphone jack wasn't for any of the publicly pronounced reasons. It was $. The wanted to make the iPhone water resistant and removing it eliminated a relatively expensive component. Water resistant headphone jack is more expensive than a regular one. Introduces another water entry point for failure. Save money and be more water resistant. Water resistant is the advertising point they wanted.
 
I agree USB-C may have been a better option to go with on the iPhone 7/7+. That way everything could be consistent and universal. It seems like Apple was scared to make too big of a change to the iPhone. Remember when Apple first switched to the lightning port on the iPhone 5. Many people were super upset about that. It would have been a double whammy if Apple removed the headphone jack and lighting port.
 
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