Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Lol..... you guys are funny. Anyhoo the gps module in the iphone is actually better than the samsung instinct and is suppose to work better in urban areas(city) maybe is google's map thats slow. Also the gps is suppose to work seamlessly when your on the phone did you try that with the instinct? And also they are using the same gps model in a tom tom gps.
http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/PMB2525-Hammerhead+II-pb.pdf?location=Products.Wireless_Communication_Products.GPS.Hammerhead_II_-_PMB_2525.DOCUMENTS.PMB2525-Hammerhead+II-pb.pdf&folderId=db3a304316f66ee80117824fc0d71e07&fileId=db3a304316f66ee8011782518d4a1e08
 
No gps knows what direction you are facing. It knows what direction you are MOVING.

You're mostly correct. GPS as a technology doesn't know direction if you're not moving, but there are GPS devices that do. For example, if you've ever shopped for a Garmin handheld, you may have noticed that the big difference between the etrex Legend and the etrex Vista from even 6 or 7 years ago was that the Vista did have a built-in compass so that it would know your direction even if you were standing still.

However, I would agree that probably 99% of other GPS units don't have a built-in compass.
 
Lol..... you guys are funny. Anyhoo the gps module in the iphone is actually better than the samsung instinct and is suppose to work better in urban areas(city) maybe is google's map thats slow. Also the gps is suppose to work seamlessly when your on the phone did you try that with the instinct? And also they are using the same gps model in a tom tom gps.

If you've never used Sprint Nav on Instinct, how do you know that apple's GPS implementation is better? I tested an Instinct for 3 weeks, and I can tell you that in San Francisco, Sprint Nav is far superior in terms of accuracy, tracking and route calculation. Do you even own an iphone? suggesting the draw speed of google maps has anything to do with tracking performance leads me to believe you dont.

Just because you posted a link to a PDF to a GPS chipset doesn't make you an expert on GPS systems.
 
Someone may have mentioned it, but the 2.1 firmware is in beta and has some specific upgrades to help with the GPS. The Apple guy mentioned there were some issues preventing a Turn-By-Turn app from coming out, so hopefully they have solved those issues and it will be good to go with the new firmware.
 
If you've never used Sprint Nav on Instinct, how do you know that apple's GPS implementation is better? I tested an Instinct for 3 weeks, and I can tell you that in San Francisco, Sprint Nav is far superior in terms of accuracy, tracking and route calculation. Do you even own an iphone? suggesting the draw speed of google maps has anything to do with tracking performance leads me to believe you dont.

Just because you posted a link to a PDF to a GPS chipset doesn't make you an expert on GPS systems.

I am telling you...
there is no compass in the Instinct.
Now, if you think Telenav (which makes Sprints navigation) is really great, you'll be happy to know (which someone already pointed out) that they plan on making turn-by-turn navigation for the iPhone. I wouldn't doubt if it was basically a complete app. Just waiting for Apple's update which every Apple newsblog site is talking about.
 
If you've never used Sprint Nav on Instinct, how do you know that apple's GPS implementation is better? I tested an Instinct for 3 weeks, and I can tell you that in San Francisco, Sprint Nav is far superior in terms of accuracy, tracking and route calculation. Do you even own an iphone? suggesting the draw speed of google maps has anything to do with tracking performance leads me to believe you dont.

Just because you posted a link to a PDF to a GPS chipset doesn't make you an expert on GPS systems.

:D I love the way you attack me for asking a question. Nowhere in my post does it say I know gps system. All I am doing is referring to the manufacturers manual on the module can and cannot do. Anyhoo your comparing a paid service to a free service have you ever thought the googles map servers are slow? And sprint nav is telenav and rumors has it that telenav is coming to the iphone. And alsoooo if you were to look at my siggy it shows that I indeed have a Iphone, and my maps load extremely quickly.
 
I dont know exactly how it does it, but it somehow is smart enough to figure out which way the phone is pointed. I tested it in my apartment which is on a corner. It doesn't get it right all the time, but it was right enough times to lead me to believe that its not simply guessing. I mean if you think about it, what's the point of having an arrow instead of a dot if the arrow doesnt point the right way?

Do me a favor. Go outside, in the middle of the street preferably, and stand there with your endstink. Face one direction on the street, we'll say north. Now walk backwards, i.e. south while still facing north. If it tells you the correct direction you're facing (north) and not the direction you're walking (south), come back and we can discuss the rest of your incorrect assertions.
 
:D I love the way you attack me for asking a question. Nowhere in my post does it say I know gps system. All I am doing is referring to the manufacturers manual on the module can and cannot do. Anyhoo your comparing a paid service to a free service have you ever thought the googles map servers are slow? And sprint nav is telenav and rumors has it that telenav is coming to the iphone. And alsoooo if you were to look at my siggy it shows that I indeed have a Iphone, and my maps load extremely quickly.

You didn't ask a question. you made the statement "Anyhoo the gps module in the iphone is actually better than the samsung instinct," without ever using the Instinct. If you were to just go by raw specs listed on a sheet, the Instinct is superior to the iphone. However it's clear to anyone that has tried both handsets that iphone is the superior device. What's your reasoning that slow google servers have anything to do with the accuracy of iphone's GPS?

Do me a favor. Go outside, in the middle of the street preferably, and stand there with your endstink. Face one direction on the street, we'll say north. Now walk backwards, i.e. south while still facing north. If it tells you the correct direction you're facing (north) and not the direction you're walking (south), come back and we can discuss the rest of your incorrect assertions.

It's obvious that you didn't bother to read the thread. If you did you'd realize that:

1) I own an iphone.

2) I tried that scenario you described when I tested an instinct for 3 weeks. Arrow pointed towards the opposite direction I'm walking. What other incorrect assertions would you like to discuss?
 
1) track up - this means that you always appear to be moving forward. As you turn, the map on your device turns. This is how modern "idiotproof" car navigators work.

And aviation GPS, and boat GPS, and...

2) North Up - the map is always oriented north up. As you turn, the icon representing you turns on the stationary map. This is how more sophisticated navigators work. It is also how the google maps for mobile on the iphone and blackberry work.

Because in Google Maps, there is ONLY "north up". At least at this stage.

I am not sure why you characterize "North up" as being more "sophisticated" than "Heading up" (or, "track up"...). North up provides a very easy to understand reference when comparing what is displayed on a GPS to a chart or map.

But Heading up is considerably easier to understand when comparing your GPS display to the "real world". This mode (and nearly all real GPS units can do both) puts the user "in" the electronic chart, and rotates the chart around the user. If the channel goes to the right, you turn the boat to the right. You don't need any mental gymnastics to "get it right".

This is even MORE important in an aircraft. Modern Aviation GPS units can display terrain, obstructions (buildings, antenna towers), other air traffic and weather. When you see that traffic or mountain or thunderstorm, it is much more foolproof to have the unit displaying in heading up mode.

Personally, I woldnt have it any way other than North up.

To each his own, but if safety is on the line, heading up is my choice all the time.

:apple::apple:
 
I'm putting my head on a block here but I'd have to say that a dedicated GPS unit such as Garmin, Tom Tom or Magellan will always outsmart an iPhone-enable GPS. iPhone is a Swiss army Knife in comparison, useful in tight conditions but not quite having the industrial-strength necessary.

But you bought an iPhone to make phone calls, right?
 
Seriously, It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
Take point A. I phone calculates where you are. You move, a few meters away it locates point B, calculates where it is. If it is north of point A you're moving northwards, if it's south, then southwards.

See, there you go, iPhone knows which direction you taking.

When you don't move it's hard to "realise" which direction you're taking since you aren't moving. You could in fact intend to move north then realise you're wrong and move eastwards as soon as the lights come green.

See my point? Direction is only important when you're moving. When you're static, well.. you're just there with no direction.

I think one of the problems Jobs mentioned is the google Maps itself. When you check the maps online you can only see in one orientation (North Up, south down, etc ). It would take more complex calculation and a software like Google Earth to rotate the map, and the street names for example.

But that's something nav apps can easily overcome.. since they have the maps stored locally in vector form.

I'm curious, how does voice turn by turn work if the device isn't aware of the direction you're pointing when it recalculates a route? When a route is recalculated, doesn't it need to know which way you're heading?

I've never had any experiences with GPS nav systems that didn't know which way you were pointing.

Samsung Instinct must have some sort of compass built in because it knows which way you are facing when you launch Sprint Navigation, without even moving. Your location is pinpointed on the map by an arrow which points up and the map is drawn accordingly.
 
Heh, mine tracks me fairly well when going 40mph. Sure it 'jumps' rather than smooth the majority of the time, but it does know what direction im going - just a shame i cant put it landscape
 
Do you even own an iphone? suggesting the draw speed of google maps has anything to do with tracking performance leads me to believe you dont.

In my opinion, putting the GPS tracking of Google Maps on the iPhone up against Sprint Nav isn't a fair comparison at all. Google Maps on the iPhone wasn't designed to be a turn-by-turn solution, and any GPS functionality was added on, not built-in from the start. Once the dedicated GPS apps are available, you'll see a huge difference in performance.
 
Like I said google servers or the application can be slow. You are comparing a paid program to a free program. Also the only thing we have to judge the accurace of the iPhone's gps is google maps. And I would love to see how the instinct beats the iPhone.
 
Seriously, It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
Take point A. I phone calculates where you are. You move, a few meters away it locates point B, calculates where it is. If it is north of point A you're moving northwards, if it's south, then southwards.

See, there you go, iPhone knows which direction you taking.

When you don't move it's hard to "realise" which direction you're taking since you aren't moving. You could in fact intend to move north then realise you're wrong and move eastwards as soon as the lights come green.

See my point? Direction is only important when you're moving. When you're static, well.. you're just there with no direction.


If all the map and voice data was stored locally, then it wouldnt matter if the nav app knew which direction you're heading since route recalculation would only take a few seconds. Most likely the GPS nav solutions offered to iphone owners would be similar to telenav where all voice and map data are stored on their servers. Allowing data to reside locally on an iphone would end up cannibalizing their standalone systems.

The reason why knowing your heading is important for a telenav type system is because it takes 10 seconds (or more depending on your connection speed) to generate a route, since no data resides locally. If you're moving and facing the wrong direction before the route is even generated, you can really get off track by a lot, and it will confuse the nav app because it's constantly recalculating your route based on where you were 10 seconds ago.

Like I said google servers or the application can be slow. You are comparing a paid program to a free program. Also the only thing we have to judge the accurace of the iPhone's gps is google maps. And I would love to see how the instinct beats the iPhone.

You keep saying that, but you haven't explained exactly how slow google servers can affect the accuracy of the GPS tracking. As for instinct beating iphone, take a look at both spec sheets for both phones. Based on that alone, instinct beats iphone.
 
You were talking about the load time, and also googles map can also not pin point the location of the gps properly or quickly enough which will show it jumping. Any the instinct does not have instant messaging, does is not quad ban, cannot support anything but evdo, touch screen is not as advance as the iphone, the iphone last twice as long with talk time on 2g network, it does not support geo tagging, it does not support imap4 email support nor Microsoft exchange, it doesn't have wifi, it can only support 600 contacts.

Anyway you cannot judge the iphone until a turn by turn gps application comes out and it is supported.
 
You were talking about the load time, and also googles map can also not pin point the location of the gps properly or quickly enough which will show it jumping.

I wasn't talking about load time. I was talking about tracking accuracy, which google maps has nothing to do with.

Any the instinct does not have instant messaging,

and you're comparing it to??? AIM for iphone? are you kidding? thats like 350lb fat guy criticizing a 450lb fat guy for eating too much


does is not quad ban, cannot support anything but evdo,

It's a CDMA device of course it can't support those standards. FYI Sprint's EVDO network is superior to ATT's 3G network

touch screen is not as advance as the iphone,

Agreed.

the iphone last twice as long with talk time on 2g network,

So what? I didn't buy a 3G iphone so I could be stuck on a 2G network. 3G battery usage on a single charge for both handsets are very similar. Also, Instinct's battery is not only removable, it comes with TWO of them.

it does not support geo tagging,

Geotagging, great. Too bad I cant send those geo-tagged pics via MMS.

it does not support imap4 email support nor Microsoft exchange,

Instinct supports both.

it doesn't have wifi,

It doesn't need it because Sprint has excellent 3G coverage.

it can only support 600 contacts.

Instinct was never meant to be a smartphone.

Does iphone support MMS? can it capture video? How about Voice commands, or Voice dialing? How about streaming BT audio? landscape keyboard for text/email? Haptic feedback? I could go on and on, but it's clear to anyone who KNOWS the specs of both phones that Instinct has has more features. The point I'm trying to make is you cant say which product is better just by looking at a spec sheet.


Anyway you cannot judge the iphone until a turn by turn gps application comes out and it is supported.

I doubt any nav app for iphone will ever be as robust as the one found on instinct.
 
I'm putting my head on a block here but I'd have to say that a dedicated GPS unit such as Garmin, Tom Tom or Magellan will always outsmart an iPhone-enable GPS. iPhone is a Swiss army Knife in comparison, useful in tight conditions but not quite having the industrial-strength necessary.

But you bought an iPhone to make phone calls, right?

I think you overestimate what is required to have a "industrial-strength" navigation system. The bottom line is going to mostly come down to the software. There do not appear to be any major hinderances in the iPhone that would somehow keep it from being incapable of delivering a top-notch navigation experience.

I agree with your point about it being a swiss army knife, but at the core of it, if the GPS chip itself is capable of doing the job, then there is no doubt the software will ultimately be developed to match it. You can't say the same thing about the camera for instance. The camera is not up to the task of competing with a full-fledged camera. If the hardware camera in the iPhone were on par then there would be no reason why it could not be as good as any other stand-alone camera. In the case of a camera though the hardware part is significantly more important to the overall application than it is with the GPS. So like I said, if the GPS is capable of getting the data accurately and in a timely manner, there is really no reason why an iPhone application can not be every bit as robust as standalone units, at least in regards to the core functionality.

To take it further, if every aspect of the iPhone was forced to suffer because of its jack-of-all-trades status, then the iPhone would also suffer as a mobile wifi web browsing device. Yet there is no standalone device or any kind of device that comes anywhere close to matching it. This is because the hardware is fairly simply and affordable to implement and the software pushes it over the top and beyond.

On the scale of how the jack-of-all-trades/swiss army knife effect impacts features, I would say something like WiFi browsing is on the easiest end of the spectrum, the camera is on the hardest end of the spectrum, and the GPS would fall somewhere in the middle, probably closer to the easier side.

With the App store allowing a consolidated and focused access to what is ultimately going to be an extremely large customer base, and I think you will see the iPhone gets more out of its hardware, in the long run, compared to other devices, simply because of the profit motive.

Maybe the GPS chip in the Instinct is better, but ultimately I would bank on the iPhone software offerings to be better because there is more money to be made there, not only because units sold, that is not even the key, the key is accessibility. It is all great if you write an app for 200 million razr users, but what are the odds that 1% of them ever even know about the application?
 
All this comparison to the details of the Instinct is foolish. We are just talking about GPS here. Drop the rest.

Does anyone have the details of the GPS chipsets in each phone? That will pretty much solve this debate.

I can say this, I am amazed at how smoothly and accurately my iPhone tracks my position. However, I've seen a video on one of the Gadget sites of a very slow and innacurrate tracking; which leads me to believe that we are all comparing differing experiences....hence a lot of the disparate beliefs here.

I cannot say why we are having differning experiences, but my guess would be that since this is A-GPS it is related to either the network or server response times. Perhaps AT&T has some work to do on their network....and this is part of why the phone wasn't released with a proper full-navigation system already available. We all know that AT&T is behind the ball on their 3G network....so perhaps they just need a little more time.

I'd say that based on the performance I've seen so far, my iPhone can almost fully replace my Garmin Nuvi if a proper application is released.
 
Anyhoo the gps module in the iphone is actually better than the samsung instinct, without ever using the Instinct. If you were to just go by raw specs listed on a sheet, the Instinct is superior to the iphone. However it's clear to anyone that has tried both handsets that iphone is the superior device. What's your reasoning that slow google servers have anything to do with the accuracy of iphone's GPS?

I smell a troll somewhere :p
 
Will future firmware updates ever allow us to change to map display to 'Always heading up'

I class myself as being relatively intelligent, but when I am driving (or walking) I would rather have the display adjust itself as I turn, almost ALL sat-nav systems have this functionality so it must make sense.

It would also be nice if you could download maps from the app store, maybe the iPhone could check for updates to the maps when syncing via iTunes?
 
There are two problems. First is that for whatever reason, the GPS sensor cannot track you fast enough when you are in a vehicle. Second is that it doesn't know which way you are facing, so the map isn't oriented in the direction you are going.

I use all my gps devices N up not direction up. That's a person preference.

With regard to the track fast enough, that was my impression as well this weekend. I missed several turns before I realized that the blue dot wasn't tracking fast enough to keep up the vehicle in rural suburban driving at 45mph.

While the GPS is cool, it's just not useful enough, imo for real navigation or replacing in car factory units or add ons which have bigger screens and more utility.
 
I use all my gps devices N up not direction up. That's a person preference.

With regard to the track fast enough, that was my impression as well this weekend. I missed several turns before I realized that the blue dot wasn't tracking fast enough to keep up the vehicle in rural suburban driving at 45mph.

While the GPS is cool, it's just not useful enough, imo for real navigation or replacing in car factory units or add ons which have bigger screens and more utility.
SUPPOSEDLY, it will track smoother in firmware 2.1. Don't know why, but that's the report from the guy on these forums who has 2.1 (developer version). So I'm hoping for it.

There's no reason that it can't update more smoothly, and it seems that it does for some, but not for others. Not sure why that is.

But I totally agree. As it is, it's definitely not (and can't effectively be used as) a GPS navigation device, it's more of an interactive map from which you can look at it and get an idea of where you are going - not get effectively guided there turn by turn.

I can't wait for telenav to release their turn-by-turn app and hopefully tom-tom will get theirs out eventually too, to create some friendly consumer-benefiting competition. Hell, maybe apple will even take a stab at it eventually to have their own thing?
 
My GPS thinks that I am in Detroit. I am in Mount Laurel, NJ

When I turn off the 3G, it then tells me I am in Mt. Laurel, but will not focus down to the blue dot.

Great technology.
 
I doubt any nav app for iphone will ever be as robust as the one found on instinct.

Telenav, who developed the nav software on the Instinct are doing the same for the iPhone. I'm sure they'll cripple the iPhone version for no reason. :)

ultimately I would bank on the iPhone software offerings to be better because there is more money to be made there, not only because units sold, that is not even the key, the key is accessibility.

This is real reason the better apps will eventually be available on the iPhone.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.