Drone Videographer Duncan Sinfield: 'Only a Matter of Time' Until Apple Park Shuts Down Drone Flights

[BornAgainMac]

I wonder if a drone could be upgraded to fly under the radar from that Dedrone security techology. Or what if you send thousands of drones in a tight formation to fly over the campus and can jam the Dedrone security sensors from detecting anything.

 

[FrenchRoasted]

Apple is becoming like North Korea

I realize this is hyperbole, but Apple employees are not prohibited from quitting their jobs nor are they tortured every day.

 

[wigby]

But Apple doesn't own airspace around campus, do they?

Both private homeowners and corporations have successfully argued that they do own the airspace above (approximately 400 feet maximum) for various reasons (privacy and security respectively). I'm sure that Apple wouldn't have any problem getting approval to legally take action against all unauthorized drone flights. Which tells me that they currently do not have the right to take action against drones in flight. I'm sure they are gathering flight data as part of this argument to Cupertino courts for not only security, but also for protecting their secret IP from spying drones.
[doublepost=1523897016][/doublepost]

If the pilot is part 107 certified and has an Airspace Authorization for the SJC class C Airspace there isn't much Apple can do. He's operating within his legal authority as an FAA licensed UAS operator. The only exception would be if he was being unsafe in the airspace. Otherwise... there's not a darn thing Apple can do to "restrict" their own airspace, about the only thing they could do is prohibit take off and landing from their property, but if he takes off on a public sidewalk across the street.... tough cookies.

Any critical infrastructure "owns" the airspace directly above the facilities to maintain safety and security. Apple could easily argue that they have valuable IP they need to protect from drones spying through those giant windows all around the building. I've even heard of some companies successfully keeping drones from flying over adjacent properties so anything is possible on a case by case basis.

 

[Heineken]

Good point. I’ll come over and hover my drone 10 feet above your house 24/7.

I’m just asking, chill.

 

[9081094]

I don’t see any Apple employee walking around? Nobody is working? At least that explain the amount of products coming out of Cupertino. Beautiful video by the way 🙂.

 

[sho_nuff]

Good point. I’ll come over and hover my drone 10 feet above your house 24/7.

The airspace above your house isn't your private property. Perfectly legal to fly over the Apple headquarters like this as long as its not a restricted airspace.

 

[farmboy]

If anyone can figure out how to engineer a solar-powered, eco-friendly antiaircraft battery, Apple can.

I'm pretty sure they're working on biodegradable free-range organic flack as well.

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

As always, I respect all requests by Apple Security to land my drone and leave the area when asked to do so.

How about simply telling them 'No'.

 

[Kabeyun]

The airspace above your house isn't your private property. Perfectly legal to fly over the Apple headquarters like this as long as its not a restricted airspace.

That’s not settled law, even after the SCOTUS has weighed in.
[doublepost=1523898988][/doublepost]

Sure they can, but if it takes them as long as putting together an update for the Mac mini, flying drones will be safe for a very long time to come... 😉

This is a variant of two posts: “This proves that Tim must go!” or “Apple can do this but they can’t give me X?!” I dislike both, but yours is funny, just a comment on time, and I have to agree with you.

 

[9081094]

Patriot missiles?

I was thinking going nuclear on this 😎

 

[jayducharme]

Given that an operator crashed his drone onto their solar panels, I can understand why Apple would begin to crack down. Also, they probably suspect that eventually drone operators would fly their craft near the windows to try peeking in at what's going on.

I will miss Sinfield's videos though. He was definitely the best of the drone operators covering Apple Park. And it's been fascinating to watch the building's development.

 

[whichweather]

What impresses me is the sheer number of trees on the campus. A veritable corporate forest.

 

[redneckitengineer]

As someone who likes to push the limits, the FAA controls air above Apple Park, not Apple. If Apple security wants to do anything it should be to document and report the incident to the FAA. Their request to leave cannot include airspace. If the user launches from Apple property, then duh.. leave. But if you launch from other land your authorized to be on, and you've got your FAA clearances covered, your more than welcome to tell their security to go fly a kite.

I have a factory campus near my house that recently had an explosion and the company desperately tried to keep it under wraps about environmental damage. (Factory has many toxic chemicals) I flew my drone over the plant several weeks after to see extent of damage, and security approached me, told me I can't fly over their land. I told them, oh, do you have an FAA no fly zone, and then a bunch more showed up with their head guy. After explaining I was i was completely legal, showing all the right papers, they were forced to retreat angrily. Know your rules!

 

[guzhogi]

We'll soon have Apple interceptor drones shooting down spy-drones in the skies over Cupertino. It'd make great TV, shown in VR!

That would be cool. I'm waiting for something like a holdback from Star Trek. That would be awesome.

Let me know when Apple makes a computer that can do VR.

Supposedly, the iMac Pro can, as well as MBPs with TB3 & an eGPU

 

[Richdmoore]

As someone who likes to push the limits, the FAA controls air above Apple Park, not Apple. If Apple security wants to do anything it should be to document and report the incident to the FAA. Their request to leave cannot include airspace. If the user launches from Apple property, then duh.. leave. But if you launch from other land your authorized to be on, and you've got your FAA clearances covered, your more than welcome to tell their security to go fly a kite.

I have a factory campus near my house that recently had an explosion and the company desperately tried to keep it under wraps about environmental damage. (Factory has many toxic chemicals) I flew my drone over the plant several weeks after to see extent of damage, and security approached me, told me I can't fly over their land. I told them, oh, do you have an FAA no fly zone, and then a bunch more showed up with their head guy. After explaining I was i was completely legal, showing all the right papers, they were forced to retreat angrily. Know your rules!

Good for you! I hate that corporations will try to strong arm the average person with rent a cops, even when they don't have the right to do so, and it appears apple is also doing the same.

I do question if the UAS pilots are maintaining line of sight during these videos, and assuming they land/takeoff from public (or with permission private property) and comply with all FAA notification requirements, apple security can pound sand.

 

[farmboy]

If the pilot is part 107 certified and has an Airspace Authorization for the SJC class C Airspace there isn't much Apple can do. He's operating within his legal authority as an FAA licensed UAS operator. The only exception would be if he was being unsafe in the airspace. Otherwise... there's not a darn thing Apple can do to "restrict" their own airspace, about the only thing they could do is prohibit take off and landing from their property, but if he takes off on a public sidewalk across the street.... tough cookies.

Well, it's never quite that black and white. Property owners are legally entitled to fair use of their property, and there are privacy, security and safety issues, so if a drone interferes with that, there may be legal issues.

And I think drone flyers have to notify any airport or control tower prior to flying in the area, 4-5 square miles, something like that.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Both private homeowners and corporations have successfully argued that they do own the airspace above (approximately 400 feet maximum) for various reasons (privacy and security respectively). I'm sure that Apple wouldn't have any problem getting approval to legally take action against all unauthorized drone flights. Which tells me that they currently do not have the right to take action against drones in flight. I'm sure they are gathering flight data as part of this argument to Cupertino courts for not only security, but also for protecting their secret IP from spying drones.
[doublepost=1523897016][/doublepost]
Any critical infrastructure "owns" the airspace directly above the facilities to maintain safety and security. Apple could easily argue that they have valuable IP they need to protect from drones spying through those giant windows all around the building. I've even heard of some companies successfully keeping drones from flying over adjacent properties so anything is possible on a case by case basis.

Property owners cannot assert any ownership of airspace. By definition, airspace is public and regulated by the federal government. The FAA promulgates all of the rules of aircraft operation and safety, including separations from buildings, the ground, and people. This does not mean that a property owner can't challenge specific aircraft operations that arguably interferes with their property rights. For example if a pilot persists in circling over a house and watching the owners sunbathe in the back yard, then the owner could file a civil action against that pilot, even if he is otherwise operating in perfectly legal fashion in terms of the airspace regulations. But even if the owner sues successfully to stop the activity, they still will not have asserted any ownership of the airspace over their house.

Critical infrastructure is another matter. These facilities are designated on navigational charges as "prohibited" or "restricted," with the rules for overflying them specified. To be clear, these rules are created by the FAA, not the owners of these facilities. A pilot busting this or any other airspace will be answerable to the federal authorities, not the property owner.

And again, in the case of Apple Park, the flight of drones over this area is not allowed without a special exemption from the FAA to the Class C airspace for San Jose Airport, which in this location extends from the surface to 4000 feet. The current special exemption will expire in June so whether drone operations can continue in this area will depend entirely on whether it is renewed. A drone pilot who continued to fly in this airspace without permission would be answerable to the FAA, not Apple.

 

[charlituna]

Can you blame them? It's private property and can become a safety hazard to people walking on campus. There are also privacy concerns of course.

yep. I have zero issue with private businesses, homes etc being off limits to drones without permission.

 

[farmboy]

Property owners cannot assert any ownership of airspace. By definition, airspace is public and regulated by the federal government.

Minor correction: navigable airspace. It's an important distinction.

 

[sho_nuff]

That’s not settled law, even after the SCOTUS has weighed in.

You going to start shooting down Delta planes and medical helicopters that fly over your house?

 

[IJ Reilly]

Minor correction: navigable airspace. It's an important distinction.

In this case especially, not so much.

 

[Mark Booth]

The FAA controls airspace from ground level up. There have been a couple of legal cases concerning airspace over private property but, as Kabeyun pointed out, that's not settled law yet.

Currently, Hobbyist drone pilots can legally fly over Apple Campus all day long as long as there isn't a temporary flight restriction in place at the time and as long as the Hobbyist drone pilot NOTIFIES the airport operator and airport tower (if one exists) BEFORE flying. Notice I said notifies. A Hobbyist drone pilot does not need permission to fly in Class C airspace. Class C is NOT a no-fly zone. A Hobbyist drone pilot only needs to notify the operator and tower of his presence and time of flight.

Anyone interested in such matters should start with the FAA's FAQ page first:

https://www.faa.gov/uas/faqs/

Hobbyist drone pilots fall under the Special Rule (known as Section 336). There is a very specific set of conditions that a Hobbyist drone pilot must meet and follow to be considered a Hobbyist. Those conditions were established by Congress. Read the actual law here:

https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/Sec_331_336_UAS.pdf

Scroll down to Sec 336 - Special Rule for Model Aircraft which states (in part):

(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—

(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;

Sec 336 then provides the conditions. You'll notice that NOWHERE does it state that a Hobbyist drone pilot must ask permission. Rather, the Hobbyist drone pilot must NOTIFY when operating within 5 miles of an airport.

Apple's ONLY hope to eliminate drone flights over its property is to convince the FAA to make the area a no-fly zone. That seems highly unlikely.

Currently, a Hobbyist drone pilot can operate their drone over any private property as long as the property isn't in a no-fly zone AND proper notification has been given to any airport within 5 miles AND the drone operator isn't invading someone's reasonable expectation of privacy. Meaning, not hovering low over the property and pointing the camera into windows, etc.

The days of having an absolute expectation of privacy in your fenced backyard are over. It's up to the courts to determine what a "reasonable" expectation of privacy entails. But it's up to Congress to make it law. With regard to Hobbyist drone pilots, Congress is the only body that can change it. Congress has already told the FAA that it can't make rules to regulate Hobbyist drone pilots. It's the law.

Mark

 

[SBlue1]

A few days ago a drone almost crashed into my car while I was driving through downtown. I saw it from quite some distance hovering 30 meters above ground at the middle of a busy street and saw a film crew what seemed to me to be film class students when it began to slide down. I was thinking it was a dangerous flight manoeuvre to go down that fast and as I saw the crew panicking I realised this thing is crashing right down to the crowded street. Luckily I just managed to slip under it and saw it crashing into the windshield of the car behind me.

 

[IJ Reilly]

The FAA controls airspace from ground level up. There have been a couple of legal cases concerning airspace over private property but, as Kabeyun pointed out, that's not settled law yet.

Currently, Hobbyist drone pilots can legally fly over Apple Campus all day long as long as there isn't a temporary flight restriction in place at the time and as long as the Hobbyist drone pilot NOTIFIES the airport operator and airport tower (if one exists) BEFORE flying. Notice I said notifies. A Hobbyist drone pilot does not need permission to fly in Class C airspace. Class C is NOT a no-fly zone. A Hobbyist drone pilot only needs to notify the operator and tower of his presence and time of flight.

Anyone interested in such matters should start with the FAA's FAQ page first:

https://www.faa.gov/uas/faqs/

Hobbyist drone pilots fall under the Special Rule (known as Section 336). There is a very specific set of conditions that a Hobbyist drone pilot must meet and follow to be considered a Hobbyist. Those conditions were established by Congress. Read the actual law here:

https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/Sec_331_336_UAS.pdf

Scroll down to Sec 336 - Special Rule for Model Aircraft which states (in part):

(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—

(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;

Sec 336 then provides the conditions. You'll notice that NOWHERE does it state that a Hobbyist drone pilot must ask permission. Rather, the Hobbyist drone pilot must NOTIFY when operating within 5 miles of an airport.

Apple's ONLY hope to eliminate drone flights over its property is to convince the FAA to make the area a no-fly zone. That seems highly unlikely.

Currently, a Hobbyist drone pilot can operate their drone over any private property as long as the property isn't in a no-fly zone AND proper notification has been given to any airport within 5 miles AND the drone operator isn't invading someone's reasonable expectation of privacy. Meaning, not hovering low over the property and pointing the camera into windows, etc.

The days of having an absolute expectation of privacy in your fenced backyard are over. It's up to the courts to determine what a "reasonable" expectation of privacy entails. But it's up to Congress to make it law. With regard to Hobbyist drone pilots, Congress is the only body that can change it. Congress has already told the FAA that it can't make rules to regulate Hobbyist drone pilots. It's the law.

Mark

Did you take the time to read some of the other posts in this thread? You would then know that Apple Park is in Class C airspace, from the surface to 4000 feet. The very page you referenced makes it clear that flying a drone in Class C airspace requires the filing of a waiver request.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/faqs/#aa

1. How do I request permission from Air Traffic Control to operate in Class B, C, D, or E airspace? Is there a way to request permission electronically?
   You can request airspace authorization through an online web portal available at www.faa.gov/uas/request_waiver.

You might want to familiarize yourself with these rules before flying your drone in controlled airspace.

 

[groove-agent]

I wonder if Apple's lack of focus the last few years is at least in part, a result of this campus being built.