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Drone Videographer Duncan Sinfield: 'Only a Matter of Time' Until Apple Park Shuts Down Drone Flights
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If someone did that to me I’d take care of it with a 12 gauge.
from the video: there appears to be only one large patch of landscaping left to be done.
its such a immaculately landscaped campus.
i wonder if the yet unfinished area was left undone until an ideal time for transplanting whatever is going to be put there.
its such a immaculately landscaped campus.
i wonder if the yet unfinished area was left undone until an ideal time for transplanting whatever is going to be put there.
Private property doesn't entitle you to airspace. They can keep you from take off/landing from their property but taking off outside their property and flying over is outside their control unless they get some special legal backing to prevent it.
No but Apple owns the rights to everything the drones are taking pictures of - illegally I might add.
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So Apple is staving and killing their employees? What a numb nut you are.
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Knowing your rules means diddly squat if you angered the security.
I'm sure the CEO would love it if they pummeled you. They would
get raises - you'd get a hospital visit and a 3 year long court case
to prove you didn't provoke them.
Even if you ignore the law it is kinda hard to point the camera to highlight some interesting with GPS only.
If someone knew what you were doing I doubt products like Dedrone would be able to locate a transmitter anyways.
As another prominent Apple Park drone flyer, I have to wholeheartedly disagree with Duncan's claims. There is no anti drone tech at Apple. At least not yet. I'm sure that at some point that will become a reality but we aren't at that point.
The reason security is able to locate and respond to him so quickly is that he attracts A TON of attention to himself. He flies a DJI Inspire which is 4 or more times the size of a standard phantom drone that most people are used to seeing. I've also seen him take off and land within feet of Apple's property.
I've been documenting the Apple Park progress on a monthly basis for close to 2 years and have been approached once by security. In that instance it wasn't even Apple's security but security from another adjacent business whose parking lot I had been standing in while flying.
I am curious exactly how his interactions with security went because I'm struggling to understand why Duncan would leave unless he wasn't flying from public property.
The reason security is able to locate and respond to him so quickly is that he attracts A TON of attention to himself. He flies a DJI Inspire which is 4 or more times the size of a standard phantom drone that most people are used to seeing. I've also seen him take off and land within feet of Apple's property.
I've been documenting the Apple Park progress on a monthly basis for close to 2 years and have been approached once by security. In that instance it wasn't even Apple's security but security from another adjacent business whose parking lot I had been standing in while flying.
I am curious exactly how his interactions with security went because I'm struggling to understand why Duncan would leave unless he wasn't flying from public property.
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No. But melodramatic questions aside, who owns the air, and above what, and starting how high, and in what circumstances, and where, is not universally settled law.
Edit: Great username. Last Dragon was so bad it was awesome.
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Can they even stop a legally commercially licensed pilot over their building?
I am not familiar with the airspace.
I am not familiar with the airspace.
I'm sorry you feel the need to troll, but if a multi-national Fortune 500 making $15billion a yr decides to have their goons fight anyone OFF-PROPERTY provoked or not than it would deserve to pay the victim a lifetime retirement fund so that they can live like a king. Especially when I ALWAYS use a gopro to film the takeoff/landing zone from afar in case such a person decided to arrive. In this scenario, I had my gopro on my car dash (unseen, no lights, in locked car) recording the entire confrontation from public land they have no control over.
So put telescopes & better optics on more distant drones & then pull a JJ Abrams to make it look more exciting.
The 8yo's will love it.
The 8yo's will love it.
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Remember, Google Maps shows that Mineta Airport is 4.9 miles from Apple Park, and the FAA's own regulations state "[d]rone operators should not be denied unless there is a safety or operational issue that prevents the flight from being compatible with the airspace."
So, if you do notify ATC of your flight in advance, what justification will they have to deny it? That Apple Park is one-tenth of a mile inside the Class C airspace? Apple Park is well outside the pattern, and is nearly perpendicular to the runways, so I don't see how flights below 400 feet at Apple Park could possibly affect commercial operations at SJC.
I haven't reviewed all the approaches and departures, but there is just no way aircraft are going to be flying at 400 feet unless they're climbing on departure or descending on final. Pattern altitude at SJC is over 900 feet, and departing or arriving on a heading of 120 degrees or 300 degrees keeps you from getting any closer to Apple Park than about 4.9 miles.
I just don't see any good-faith justification for ATC denying a drone flight over Apple Park, so long as the drone is flown safely.
They are going to turn the ring into a 21st Century Colosseum where they sacrifice Christians... No, Sorry! I meant leakers. Tim Cook will give thumbs up or down from his office and everyone will be able to watch from their offices as a warning.
THAT is why they don't want photos....
Class C airspace is shaped like an inverted wedding cake with two layers. The layer that is at the bottom (the core layer) is typically 5 miles wide with the middle of the layer directly over the airport. In other words, the bottom layer typically extends in a radius that is approximately 2.5 miles from the airport. The upper layer is typically 10 miles wide, meaning a radius of 5 miles from airport.
The upper layer (the wider layer of the inverted wedding cake) has a bottom shelf below it that extends between 2.5 miles and 5 miles from the airport. That bottom shelf under that upper layer is the MINIMUM altitude for aircraft on approach or leaving the airport.
In other words, only the core layer (the bottom of the inverted wedding cake) extends all the way to the ground. Only the layer that is 5 miles wide (2.5 mile radius from the airport) extends all the way to the ground.
Here's a graphical representation of Class C airspace:
That center core is restricted airspace. The upper layer is also restricted airspace. But you can clearly see that there is airspace below that upper layer that is NOT restricted airspace.
With regard to Apple Park, the closest airport is Mineta San Jose. Apple Park is located approximately 4.9 miles from Mineta San Jose. That puts Apple Park below the UPPER layer of the Class C airspace, the layer that does NOT go all the way to the ground. The bottom of that upper layer (Class C) is typically 1,200 feet.
Since Apple Park is outside of the core layer, Apple Park is NOT in restricted airspace. Yet, it is STILL within 5 miles of the airport. Per the Section 336 passed into law by Congress, a Hobbyist drone pilot must NOTIFY the airport if he is operating within those 5 miles. Since it is NOT restricted airspace (because Apple Park is under the UPPER layer shelf), a Hobbyist drone pilot does NOT need permission. He only has to notify.
Of course, the Hobbyist drone pilot is not supposed to fly higher than 400 feet above ground level. So, a Hobbyist drone pilot following the rules will not come remotely close to entering that upper layer of restricted airspace.
Put simply, at Apple Park a drone is below Class C airspace but not *in* Class C airspace.
DJI's own website bears this out. Here's their map:
The red marker left of center is the address of the visitor center at Apple Park. You can see the center core layer ring of restricted airspace over Mineta San Jose Airport (red and yellow rings). The larger green ring is the boundary of the upper layer of the wedding cake. Apple Park is just within that boundary.
A Hobbyist drone pilot can fly within that green ring as long as he keeps the drone below 400 feet above ground level and notifies the airport that he will be flying in that area.
No permission is needed within that green ring for a Hobbyist drone pilot. Only notification.
Mark
Incorrect. The shape and extent of airspace is not nearly so standard. Configurations vary depending on the airport, proximity to other airports, and terrain. Apple Park is within the inner ring of the Class C airspace for San Jose, which begins at the surface, as the attached portion of the San Francisco TAC proves. Also highlighted is the NOTAM for UAS operations in the area that I quoted at the beginning of this thread.
Drone operators are supposed to know this stuff. They are supposed to know the regulations and to be able to read the charts and know what they mean.
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A very nice videography done over the campus. However, I do understand from Apple's point about drones flying over their campus when it becomes more frequently. Maybe Tim likes to go up to the roof to get a tan while in the nude that bothers him?
I love all the attorney's here with expertise on aviation law. When I got my real estate license (no longer licensed) many years ago, I was surprised to learn property owners DO in fact have rights from their land to the core of the earth and through space. IF someone wanted to drill and recover minerals under your property, or even pass through under your property, they have to have permission to do so. To use airspace above your property there are limits there too. However, laws have been enacted to protect public use such as flight, satellite use, etc.
I recommend reading the following as it relates to this discussion and what Apple may really have control over above their property. As I am not an attorney, I defer to them for clarity. Enjoy:
https://aviation.uslegal.com/ownership-of-airspace-over-property/
I recommend reading the following as it relates to this discussion and what Apple may really have control over above their property. As I am not an attorney, I defer to them for clarity. Enjoy:
https://aviation.uslegal.com/ownership-of-airspace-over-property/
Did you read the article you linked? In it you will find the exact same principles already described in previous posts on this subject. Property owner's rights to the use of airspace are limited to what is required to enjoy the use of their land. They are not entitled to any general assertion of control. Specifically, they cannot interfere with the use of the airspace over their property by aircraft, unless that use deprives them of another legal use of their property.
This is the part of the principle of airspace control that pertains to drones flying over Apple Park. In short, Apple can't prevent drones from flying over Apple Park unless they can make the civil case that they are being deprived of some property right. A company that keeps trade secrets as closely as Apple could very well makes such a case, but it will likely prove unnecessary because this is controlled airspace and the UAS waiver that allows the flights will expire in a few weeks. And no, you really don't have to be a lawyer to understand the basics. It's all pretty straight forward.
Mineral rights are very different matter. Not much point of even bringing that up here except to confuse matters.
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It’s perfectly legal to take exterior photos. Please tell me which laws are being broken, because what you’re “adding” sounds made up based on how you feel things should be.
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All you’re proving is you know how to read but don’t understand what you’re reading.
Thank you for the clarification. I really appreciate it!
With regard to your last sentence... Only Part 107 drone pilots are required to know how to read the airspace charts. Yes, even Hobbyist drone pilots are supposed to know the regulations but they are not required to know how to read charts.
DJI isn't helping with its inaccurate no-fly zone maps.
Mark
Most likely not a lawyer but probably a pilot. They drill that into you in ground school. You wanna screw around in controlled airspace State and Local law enforcement will be the least of your worries. Not to mention you are risking peoples life in the air and the ground.
To be honest I didn't believe "IJ Reilly" statements about it being Class C airspace but I looked it up and it makes sense considering you can see the ring on approach into SJC.
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Yeah, I read it and completely understand it. You are wrong in your take by picking out what fits your agenda. No pilot - drone or plane, has any right to "buzz" a property. Which is an extreme example of "enjoying the use of their land". You do have control up to a certain point. Reporting such actions to the FAA will cause them to take action. Same for drones. I guarantee it won't happen again as possible fines and jail time would be enjoyed but the operator. Above a certain altitude - say 500 to 1000 feet, could be arguable.