Yes, I hope for that as well. We'll see. It is true that demand among existing Mac users is high, just because of the huge jump...so perhaps we'll see price cuts soon. Specifically, I hope that this Dual 1.8 rumor pans out at a reasonable price.
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Dual 1.8 Ghz G5
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Yes, I hope for that as well. We'll see. It is true that demand among existing Mac users is high, just because of the huge jump...so perhaps we'll see price cuts soon. Specifically, I hope that this Dual 1.8 rumor pans out at a reasonable price.
MattG
macrumors 68040
So if this does happen next week, do you all think it'll be on Tuesday like most of their announcements? I'm thinking about changing my DP 2.0ghz order to a DP 1.8ghz if they announce it, and I might even change my order to a SP 1.8ghz if they don't. I just can't get over spending this much on a computer...
fourthtunz
macrumors 68000
I think you are ignoring the Mac software, I guess you don't do video,dvds,photos or music? The 1 gig $1300 emac would kill that Sony for real work with the Macs INCLUDED software and FULL Version OF the OS.
I have one, it rocks but I'll be getting the G5 too, but I don't need an $800 lcd🙄
peace
daniel
fourthtunz
macrumors 68000
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is Apple's customer base?
Well if you're a Mac user you know they tried the clone thing without much success. Is BMW a monopoly? I guess they have about the same amount of Market share. I guess I don't know what else Apple can do, they have inexpensive models but if they cut the tower prices in half to compete with pcs they die😕 How do they innovate then?
daniel
Well if you're a Mac user you know they tried the clone thing without much success. Is BMW a monopoly? I guess they have about the same amount of Market share. I guess I don't know what else Apple can do, they have inexpensive models but if they cut the tower prices in half to compete with pcs they die😕 How do they innovate then?
daniel
Monopolies
If Apple has a monopoly, then why are people comparing them all the time to Windows? By definition, monopolies aren't comparable.... (not to mention the old saw that consumer behavior defines markets, NOT the product).
If Apple has a monopoly, then why are people comparing them all the time to Windows? By definition, monopolies aren't comparable.... (not to mention the old saw that consumer behavior defines markets, NOT the product).
Re: Monopolies
Apple has a vertical monopoly, in a certain sense. MS has a horizontal monopoly, in that same sense.
Apple has a vertical monopoly, in a certain sense. MS has a horizontal monopoly, in that same sense.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is Apple's customer base?
Yeah, clones weren't helping Apple, and it is generally thought now that this was due to the fact that they tried it too late. They missed the window of opportunity apparently, and now I guess it's too late. 🙁
I don't know what else Apple can do at this point either. I guess it's just too bad and that's the way it is. We can take it or leave it.
But I think Apple could cut down the prices some. At this point I don't think Apple is a hugely innovative company. Sure, they make a nice product, but that's not innovation per se.
Yeah, clones weren't helping Apple, and it is generally thought now that this was due to the fact that they tried it too late. They missed the window of opportunity apparently, and now I guess it's too late. 🙁
I don't know what else Apple can do at this point either. I guess it's just too bad and that's the way it is. We can take it or leave it.
But I think Apple could cut down the prices some. At this point I don't think Apple is a hugely innovative company. Sure, they make a nice product, but that's not innovation per se.
fourthtunz
macrumors 68000
Re: Re: Monopolies
Yeah, Apple is out to rule the world with their 3% monopoly,
I wish they stop their cutthroat way of doing business😀
daniel
Yeah, Apple is out to rule the world with their 3% monopoly,
I wish they stop their cutthroat way of doing business😀
daniel
Re: Re: Re: Monopolies
Yeah I know you're joking. But speaking of throats being cut, tell that to Power Computing. I think they wouldn't be amused. 🙂
Yeah I know you're joking. But speaking of throats being cut, tell that to Power Computing. I think they wouldn't be amused. 🙂
I see your point. But
Sony does include photos, music and video software with the vast majority of their products.
The eMac is not upgradable and it is not nearly as fast as a 2.4GHz P4. What are you going to do with a full 60GB hard drive? Add an external one? or buy a new Mac specifically for its extra storage? The first solution is inelegant the second is expensive. This is why I prefer to compare the Mac tower to the PC tower - they do have all in one solutions but they do pale in comparison to the Mac offers.
eMac is using a CRT many people dont like CRTs any more. And the PC package would be an extra 150$ cheaper if it did not inlcude an LCD.
Now about the full version of OS. I could see it as an advantage if there is any chance that you could deduce it from the price of your next Mac or something. What more can you do with your full copy of your Mac OSX that you cannot do with your copy of WinXP? You can sell them both as long as you stop using them.
So the price difference remains no matter what. Macs beat PCs hands down on everyday use. This is why I "switched" and this is why I will keep switched for most of my everyday computing life. But in order to attract some more share on the market and not vanish slowly to oblivion you have to pesruade an average PC user that the experience is so much better that it is worth at least double price than what you are paying now or a few hundrends dollars more and a sacrifice to flexibility. In either case you will find it very hard to do. The switchers campaign would have been a success if it could have been accompanied with a couple of entry level low cost G4 or G5 towers. And when I am saying low cost I certainly don't mean 1999$.
fourthtunz
macrumors 68000
Some pro apps require the full version of windows, which you would have to pay extra for or upgrade to later.
As far as an emac goes how many people do you know that use pci slots? I do but most don't?
I have 4 macs and I bought the 1 gig emac and put it to work right out of the box. I don't know if it will win a shoot out against your pc but out of the box I guarantee you will get more work done. I'm buying the G5 when it comes out maybe just the cheapie for now, but if apple were to sell it at $1500 instead of $2000 as it is now they'd be breaking even.
I don't think they could keep that up for long 😀
Hey the tower is a workstation, a pro piece of kit and it competes against others of that type very well.
I wish they were cheaper too but, oh well🙂
daniel
I guess what I was suggesting is to try and pull a DELL 😛 with a base model in order to lure people and keep their base. Because the problem is not the actual market share as much as the actual number of Mac users. And I am afraid that with such a pricing they are losing not market share because PCs sell more only but because Mac users are fed up paying so high prices.
As far as the 1500$ 1.6GHz you can strip it down - less HD no DVDR, lesser graphics card and you can use it as the crowd pleaser. Lose money on that in order to expand your customer base which will buy the more expensive products after they are hooked.
For my part I dont care how much they sell them for. I bought what I thought it was a decently priced 12"PB and I will buy a G5 when I will think it is worth the price. All I am saying is that I love the Mac platform and I dont want to see it disappearing only because Apple never put a real effort to increase the reach of the platform outrside the core Mac fans.
As far as PC users and their PCI slots goes upgradability is not only a PCI slot. It is a bigger or better HD, an extra or different optical drive,a better bigger monitor a higher processor and so on. There is no Mac less than 1999$ Macs that offera any of these. If you bought a CDRW iMac and a year down the line want a DVDR you have two options: Buy the inelegant and very expensive external drive or the elegant but very expensive solution of buying a different model. I know iMacs are supposed to be used by people who dont care about these things but there should be an option on the same price range for those that do - which are very very very many.
And for me as long as Apple can keep being a somewhat profitable company that can offer a far better computing experience than the competition I dont care if they never switch another PC user. The problem with a shrinking customer base is that you spread your costs in fewer sales. In order to keep being profitable you will have to raise your prices which will make more of your customer base to go away and so on till you fix a computer only for Steve Jobs. Which at the end of the day has a safety net if Apple dies but computer users will lose something very important. A different way of thinking.
As far as the 1500$ 1.6GHz you can strip it down - less HD no DVDR, lesser graphics card and you can use it as the crowd pleaser. Lose money on that in order to expand your customer base which will buy the more expensive products after they are hooked.
For my part I dont care how much they sell them for. I bought what I thought it was a decently priced 12"PB and I will buy a G5 when I will think it is worth the price. All I am saying is that I love the Mac platform and I dont want to see it disappearing only because Apple never put a real effort to increase the reach of the platform outrside the core Mac fans.
As far as PC users and their PCI slots goes upgradability is not only a PCI slot. It is a bigger or better HD, an extra or different optical drive,a better bigger monitor a higher processor and so on. There is no Mac less than 1999$ Macs that offera any of these. If you bought a CDRW iMac and a year down the line want a DVDR you have two options: Buy the inelegant and very expensive external drive or the elegant but very expensive solution of buying a different model. I know iMacs are supposed to be used by people who dont care about these things but there should be an option on the same price range for those that do - which are very very very many.
And for me as long as Apple can keep being a somewhat profitable company that can offer a far better computing experience than the competition I dont care if they never switch another PC user. The problem with a shrinking customer base is that you spread your costs in fewer sales. In order to keep being profitable you will have to raise your prices which will make more of your customer base to go away and so on till you fix a computer only for Steve Jobs. Which at the end of the day has a safety net if Apple dies but computer users will lose something very important. A different way of thinking.
fourthtunz
macrumors 68000
I wonder what kind of market there is for a stripped down tower? You never know, maybe they should be offering a g3 or G4 low budget tower, sorta like a celeron?
Who knows🙂
daniel
What's with all these arguments about no upgradeability? Please support your argument. But you cannot, as it's partly false.
What's missing is the pci slots. There is no other difference. I can pop a new HDD or optical drive in an emac or a imac just as easily as you can in you tower. I can't add an ADDITIONAL HDD or optical drive, but I can replace the current one with a better one. I just replaced the HDD on my Cube and I'm replacing the DVD drive with a Combo drive next week. If you know how to crack open your x86 tower to add an HDD you can do the same with a Mac. So all this talk of not being able to upgrade HDDs and optical drives on macs is horse excrement.
Added to this is the fact that other than gaming weenies (me!), the vast population of computer users just plug the damn thing in and start emailing and using Word. And they do it at work, where they use a machine they didn't choose. Then when they buy a machine for their house, they get something similar to what they have at work, Windows at work, Windows at home. The normal computer user is not going to upgrade a processor. For these people an eMac is a great machine.
Oh, and in case you didn't know, it's actually easier to upgrade the processor in a mac than it is in a PC. The way intel and AMD are going, if you want a new proc 6 months from now, you get to shell out for a new motherboard as well. With a mac, you just buy a new processor card. You're not going to get your B&W G3 to take a G5, no, but you can get the newest G3.
What's missing is the pci slots. There is no other difference. I can pop a new HDD or optical drive in an emac or a imac just as easily as you can in you tower. I can't add an ADDITIONAL HDD or optical drive, but I can replace the current one with a better one. I just replaced the HDD on my Cube and I'm replacing the DVD drive with a Combo drive next week. If you know how to crack open your x86 tower to add an HDD you can do the same with a Mac. So all this talk of not being able to upgrade HDDs and optical drives on macs is horse excrement.
Added to this is the fact that other than gaming weenies (me!), the vast population of computer users just plug the damn thing in and start emailing and using Word. And they do it at work, where they use a machine they didn't choose. Then when they buy a machine for their house, they get something similar to what they have at work, Windows at work, Windows at home. The normal computer user is not going to upgrade a processor. For these people an eMac is a great machine.
Oh, and in case you didn't know, it's actually easier to upgrade the processor in a mac than it is in a PC. The way intel and AMD are going, if you want a new proc 6 months from now, you get to shell out for a new motherboard as well. With a mac, you just buy a new processor card. You're not going to get your B&W G3 to take a G5, no, but you can get the newest G3.
ok didn't know you could anyway new to the mac thing sorry.... i will keep that in mind next time.
fourthtunz
macrumors 68000
I was going to mention this but, for the people who want the lowest priced machine wellll😕
I was also going to mention that if you buy an emac with a superdrive you can back up 4.5 gigs for $1 or you can always buy an external drive which comes in handy if you have more than one computer. peace
daniel
This monopoly thing
You can't have your cake and it it too. Apple by definition is not a monopoly any more than Sun is with Solaris. These are proprietary systems and Apple's OS is designed to work on Apple's own hardware. Now, if Apple's hardware and software were doing what MS, with software alone, is doing and they had 97% of the market, THAT would be a monopoly. By practical experience, we all know that Apple is not in that position. With MS making IE available only through its OS and because they have 97% of the market, the Internet will now be in MS's full control unless the regulatory bodies "make" IE become standards compliant, otherwise, no one with any other OS will be able to "log on" without glitches happening. Now, THAT is a monopoly position. We must not forget that Apple's hold on life is tenuous at best... the clone fiasco showed that. As for Apple's margins... look at their bottom line and it's pretty darned clear that they NEED those margins. Really cheap Apple's across the line? No way! it would be the end of Apple. As others have said, the eMac is a superb intro machine and is competitive with any el cheapo Wintel, especially when you consider XP Home!
You can't have your cake and it it too. Apple by definition is not a monopoly any more than Sun is with Solaris. These are proprietary systems and Apple's OS is designed to work on Apple's own hardware. Now, if Apple's hardware and software were doing what MS, with software alone, is doing and they had 97% of the market, THAT would be a monopoly. By practical experience, we all know that Apple is not in that position. With MS making IE available only through its OS and because they have 97% of the market, the Internet will now be in MS's full control unless the regulatory bodies "make" IE become standards compliant, otherwise, no one with any other OS will be able to "log on" without glitches happening. Now, THAT is a monopoly position. We must not forget that Apple's hold on life is tenuous at best... the clone fiasco showed that. As for Apple's margins... look at their bottom line and it's pretty darned clear that they NEED those margins. Really cheap Apple's across the line? No way! it would be the end of Apple. As others have said, the eMac is a superb intro machine and is competitive with any el cheapo Wintel, especially when you consider XP Home!
fourthtunz
macrumors 68000
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is Apple's customer base?
Hey do you work for intel? There is an article over at maccentral that sounds like you😀
I think the G5 could be innovative, if it pans out as I hope.
I think the Imac is innovative, the cube, the ipod.
Firewire was and is the best on the Mac.
I think the way Itunes,Imovie,IDvd,and Iphoto all work together is innovative. Final cut is Innovative and is quicking Avids butt.
And now apple is bundling soundtrack with it, which is a great app by itself. Panther is looking pretty good.
I'm sorry but I can't think of any other computer maker that is bringing it like Apple, especially for its size and in this economy.
My 2cents,peace
daniel
Hey do you work for intel? There is an article over at maccentral that sounds like you😀
I think the G5 could be innovative, if it pans out as I hope.
I think the Imac is innovative, the cube, the ipod.
Firewire was and is the best on the Mac.
I think the way Itunes,Imovie,IDvd,and Iphoto all work together is innovative. Final cut is Innovative and is quicking Avids butt.
And now apple is bundling soundtrack with it, which is a great app by itself. Panther is looking pretty good.
I'm sorry but I can't think of any other computer maker that is bringing it like Apple, especially for its size and in this economy.
My 2cents,peace
daniel
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is Apple's customer base?
Yeah, I guess there's a lot of stuff I take for granted. I suppose I wish Apple could have been a SW company, but I also suppose ther'e's no point in wishing for something that'll never happen
Yeah, I guess there's a lot of stuff I take for granted. I suppose I wish Apple could have been a SW company, but I also suppose ther'e's no point in wishing for something that'll never happen
fourthtunz
macrumors 68000
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is Apple's customer base?
Yeah, this is all based on perspective I know🙂
From my perspective I'm glad that Apple does Hardware, the big draw for me as an AV studio is stability. Having the OS and the box made by the same company is a real plus imo.
I replaced hardware back in 96' with the Mac and I've never regretted it.
I also have a pc but even though I've used PC's longer, I know less about making them work. If you've even opened up your Mac tower, they are very easy to work on compared to most pcs, something that probably won't convert most people I know 😎
I hope OS X ends up being as stable as 9 was😀
daniel
Yeah, this is all based on perspective I know🙂
From my perspective I'm glad that Apple does Hardware, the big draw for me as an AV studio is stability. Having the OS and the box made by the same company is a real plus imo.
I replaced hardware back in 96' with the Mac and I've never regretted it.
I also have a pc but even though I've used PC's longer, I know less about making them work. If you've even opened up your Mac tower, they are very easy to work on compared to most pcs, something that probably won't convert most people I know 😎
I hope OS X ends up being as stable as 9 was😀
daniel
this will increase apples maret share 40-60% but they would probably go out of buisness in a year.
Low Prices
Um, yeah. Sell the G5's below cost. And then add a $250 discount to Edu. Um. Yeah. Apple wouldn't last that long.
Jaedreth
Um, yeah. Sell the G5's below cost. And then add a $250 discount to Edu. Um. Yeah. Apple wouldn't last that long.
Jaedreth
Re: Low Prices
$2000 for a single processor computer with fairly standard components allows for a pretty good profit margin IMHO.
Pricing isn't just about cost or margin. Apple prices to make profit AND maximize profit.
Pent up demand for a new tower means a lot of people will buy them irregardless of price (within reason). It is not in Apple's best interest to sell the G5 at low margin right now since they probably wouldn't sell significantly more units if they lowered the price by 25%... at least not at first.
Once the early adopters are done... the people who need the G5 and are willing to pay for it... then Apple will have to adjust for the people who can't afford one yet. Add into the mix the fact they they will try to recoup R&D initially...and that they will gain better economies of scale as the G5 begins to ship in large volumes.
I think that the target prices from scem0 will be feasable in the NEAR future. That doesn't mean it will happen, but it will be entirely feasable and probably optimal when the market dynamic changes and when economies of scale are achieved.
ffakr.
We don't know what cost is on a G5.
$2000 for a single processor computer with fairly standard components allows for a pretty good profit margin IMHO.
Pricing isn't just about cost or margin. Apple prices to make profit AND maximize profit.
Pent up demand for a new tower means a lot of people will buy them irregardless of price (within reason). It is not in Apple's best interest to sell the G5 at low margin right now since they probably wouldn't sell significantly more units if they lowered the price by 25%... at least not at first.
Once the early adopters are done... the people who need the G5 and are willing to pay for it... then Apple will have to adjust for the people who can't afford one yet. Add into the mix the fact they they will try to recoup R&D initially...and that they will gain better economies of scale as the G5 begins to ship in large volumes.
I think that the target prices from scem0 will be feasable in the NEAR future. That doesn't mean it will happen, but it will be entirely feasable and probably optimal when the market dynamic changes and when economies of scale are achieved.
ffakr.