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G5s start at $1593

Don't forget, on all G5s, you can save some money (about US$30) by removing the modem BTO, and even more (about $180) if you can settle for a Combo Drive. And the recent education price drops for individuals include the G5s.

The cheapest G5 is therefore $1770.

Or for edu individuals, it's now $1593.


At those prices, I do find the 1.6 tempting! You can always save up and add RAM later on.
 
Re: Re: under 1600$ 1.6

Originally posted by job
I don't know. To be honest, I really don't see why everyone's ragging on the 1.6 tower for. I'd much rather have one than my iMac DV.

I agree. The 200MHz drop in CPU speed (ie: only 11.1% of the 1.8GHz's core clock and FSB clock speed lost) and the use of DDR333 instead of DDR400 will probably make a smaller impact in many real-world applications than people think. The 1.6GHz system still has a damned fast FSB (800MHz), it still has substantial memory bandwidth (dual channel DDR333), it still has fast Serial ATA disks, AGP 8x graphics slot, FireWire 800 plus FireWire 400 USB 2.0, optical audio and gigabit ethernet. *And* it still has a HyperTransport bus linking it all together. The infrastructural improvement over the previous generation of G4 systems is still nothing short of astounding.

Seriously (not trying to start a flamefest here), but what are people planning to put in their PCI-X slots? I can only really think of large disk arrays (ie: SCSI and Fibre Channel controllers) or maybe high-end video capture and encoding equipment. That's probably more an illustration of my naivety than anything else, but I'd be interested to hear what people are planning to use their slots for, and what the PCI-X slot will give them above a regular 64-bit PCI slot (which in itself still offers higher bandwidth than all but the high-end 'workstation' class PC systems, which are still using 32-bit, 33MHz PCI slots).
 
Re: from the start

Originally posted by daveg5
they should have all been dual from the start with an october release date and all the same motherboard.
2x1.6+2x1.8x2x2.0 at the same prices.
big mistake on apple's partas the duals barely beat the single P4, i suspect the singles to get clobbered esp in fps games which or not optimized for altivec and duals except quake 3
oh well
 
Re: Re: Re: under 1600$ 1.6

Originally posted by oingoboingo
Seriously (not trying to start a flamefest here), but what are people planning to put in their PCI-X slots?

That's something I'd like to know as well. I'm sure there are people out there who will use them to their fullest, but I don't know if the majority of the users out there (barring the professionals, scientists, etc) will use them. It may be that people are 'future-proofing' themselves.

I think once you look at the 1.6Ghz tower as a whole like oingoboingo did, you'll see that the 1.6Ghz tower is quite an improvement, even over the old 1.42 towers.

Originally posted by nagromme
The cheapest G5 is therefore $1770.

Or for edu individuals, it's now $1593.

Yep. I'm drooling over that educational price, as my family is eligable (my mother is an adjunct faculty at a local community college.)

At those prices, I do find the 1.6 tempting! You can always save up and add RAM later on.

No kidding! You can even spec the 1.6Ghz tower with 512MB RAM and the 160GB hard drive and the Radeon 9600 Pro card and still come up with a price which gives the 1.8Ghz tower a run for it's money, even with the educational discount. Heck, I didn't even use the PCI slots on my old 7200, and since the G5s have optical audio, I have no real need for them anyways. I had actually entertained the idea of buying the Revolution 7.1 sound card when I get a new computer, but with the advancements on the G5 mobo, that isn't neccesary anymore.
 
Re: Re: Re: Who is Apple's customer base?

Originally posted by fourthtunz
Hey it would be nice if Macs were less but I could say the same thing about some of the guitars I want😉
daniel

That is so true!!! 😀

groovebuster
 
you guys got it all wrong!

if apple had their way, all of the powermacs would be duals, but IBM would not be able to keep up with production: they would need to make double the ammount of chips for each lower end computer sold. wait until supply is plentiful: THEN, you will see lower end duals. even now, demand of the dual 2GHz machines exceeds supply, forcing apple to delay shipping dates.

remember, apple did this at the beginning of 2001, with the 733 MHz machines. they were single processor, even though they used to have Dual 500MHz g4s before that. Steve explained this by saying "if we made them duals, you'd have to wait 3 months for them to ship because of production speed."

from a marketing perspective, apple has done a surprisingly GOOD job in light of these production issues. the current pricing structure is designed to make people look to the next model up, driving sales towards the dual 2GHz (apple's highest margin machine).

if someone looks at the 1.6, then they check out the 1.8, they will see that it offers far more technologies, for just a little more money. so now, all set to buy the 1.8, they look at the dual 2GHz and realize that they will get more than DOUBLE the performance for just a little money. see how it works?

in any case, as someone pointed out, apple would probably have a contract with IBM that basically says: if apple wants to use IBM's latest and greatest chips, they have to also buy some lower end chips. apple doesn't really want to sell lower end duals: some people have mentioned that the Dual 2GHz has sold 5 times better than the other models. i think that rather than many customers being LOST because of the lack of lower end duals, they have instead shelled out a little more cash and gone for the 2GHz model. given a choice, they would probably paid a little less for a dual 1.8, but from a profit perspective, it's better for apple if the customer buys a 2GHZ dual.

just my thoughts on the matter.
 
Originally posted by groovebuster

Again, it depends on the voltage... Here in Germany we have only 6A circuits. Since we have 230V and not 110V, it is the same regarding used power.
[/B]

That's a typo. He meant to say 16A, not 6A.

I just wanted to point that out for the benefit of those who still believe that VWs are welded together by dwarves in the Black Forest. ;-)

Just kidding.
 
Re: Re: Re: Who is Apple's customer base?

Originally posted by fourthtunz
Hey it would be nice if Macs were less but I could say the same thing about some of the guitars I want😉

This isn't quite the right way of looking at it IMO. Sure, we'd like everything to be free. But in the absence of that, we should look for good value. Monopolies drive value down, and there is simply no getting around that. The question is, is the value driven down by too much in this case. That is an individual decision, but I think it is clear that the vast majority of individuals unfortunately see Apple's value proposition as poor. It would be nice if this wasn't the case.
 
Originally posted by pianojoe
That's a typo. He meant to say 16A, not 6A.

Oops! The "1" is making trouble since a while now on my PowerBook... It's getting old I guess...

I have to talk to the dwarfs to maybe repair it!!! 😉

groovebuster
 
Going a bit off-topic but anybody noticed that the applestore is currently quoting a delivery time for G5s of 7-10 weeks, that upto mid October, so much for August shipping.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is Apple's customer base?

Originally posted by soggywulf
This isn't quite the right way of looking at it IMO. Sure, we'd like everything to be free. But in the absence of that, we should look for good value. Monopolies drive value down, and there is simply no getting around that. The question is, is the value driven down by too much in this case. That is an individual decision, but I think it is clear that the vast majority of individuals unfortunately see Apple's value proposition as poor. It would be nice if this wasn't the case.

Well, it is for me😀 The value of anything is in the eye of the beholder. If you want a less expensive computer buy an emac, they are faster than the new Imacs and you can get real work done with them, right out of the box.
If you want to worry about a MOnopoly, why doesn't the way MS does business worry you? Macs work the best for what I do but I do also like that they are not an MS box😎
daniel
 
Originally posted by Black Badger
Going a bit off-topic but anybody noticed that the applestore is currently quoting a delivery time for G5s of 7-10 weeks, that upto mid October, so much for August shipping.

That is probably if you ordered one now; not if you ordered one last month. If you have 10,000 orders and only 5,000 machines and can produce 1,000 a week. The ten-thousandth person will have to wait 5 weeks before they received theirs. Person #1 would get theirs immediately.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is Apple's customer base?

Originally posted by fourthtunz
If you want a less expensive computer buy an emac, they are faster than the new Imacs and you can get real work done with them, right out of the box.

No thanks . I have the money, and I'll get a G5 (probably).

The issue is not "you" or "me", but rather the vast majority of people--who may not see the G5 (or any other Mac) as a good value.

Originally posted by fourthtunz
If you want to worry about a MOnopoly, why doesn't the way MS does business worry you?

It does worry me, of course. But two wrongs don't make a right, and my point stands independently: Apple's vertical monopoly makes Macs more expensive. MS's monopoly is bad too, but at least you can still get cheap PCs with or without Windows.

Besides, I am a Mac user. The Apple monopoly is the one that affects my pocketbook.
 
Originally posted by Lanbrown
That is probably if you ordered one now; not if you ordered one last month. If you have 10,000 orders and only 5,000 machines and can produce 1,000 a week. The ten-thousandth person will have to wait 5 weeks before they received theirs. Person #1 would get theirs immediately.
That sucks.
So if it's a huge success and it looks like it, if I order in oct, I still have to wait. When I might as well wait for the updated model. 😀

I have waited with ordering mine and I thought once they start shipping, the delays will stop. I just want some reviews on them before I decide.
 
Originally posted by Dahl
That sucks.
So if it's a huge success and it looks like it, if I order in oct, I still have to wait. When I might as well wait for the updated model. 😀

I have waited with ordering mine and I thought once they start shipping, the delays will stop. I just want some reviews on them before I decide.

I feel exactly the same way. I'm not dropping money until they are actually shipping and I can be reasonably sure of getting one within a week or two. And if that time comes in November, why not wait for the Rev B's or price cuts? Maybe by that time Apple will get their supply chain working right.

Plus reviews from all the rest of you guinea pigs here. 😀
 
Originally posted by Dave K
Not necessarily. As was pointed out on Ars, the performance grade distribution for the chips is likely hard coded into the contract between IBM and Apple, and it's fairly unlikely it favoured a 50% shipment rate at the highest grade for a first run Proc. This effectively means that, while IBM can likely meet Apple's needs, the contract forces Apple to eat a bunch of lower grade proc's for each high end one they move.

..

Thefefore since demand right now is at the very highest end of the chip speed list, Apple has incentive to hurry up and release G5 Powerbooks which presumably use low end chips for temperature reasons so they can increase their allocation of high end chips for desktops! Win, win.

Rocketman

avatar2.jpg
 
Symmetric Multi Processor

It is a design technique, for hardware, that gives 2 or more processor units equal access to system resources. This includes RAM. [

Note that it is possible to have SMP hardware that is being driven by software that is not SMP aware. Older versions of Mac OS are like this.

In a modern SMP machine, system software is able to assign jobs to the individual processors as required, no one processor has a distincct advantage. Thus with a operating system like Mac OS/X that can have many processes ready to run at anyone time, two of those processes can be running at the same time (on a dual processor). By running I mean actually executing the code. This often leads to a more responsive machine if one process is CPU hungery.

It is also possible on a SMP machine to have both processors work on one problem. This would be parallel programing and is a issue in and of itself.

In general SMP machines offer the user a better experience than going to ultra high clock rates. With in reason, and contemporary technology, at some point on the curve a single processor will bieat older SMP hardware. That though is comparing new to old.

Thanks
dave



Originally posted by vrapan
Stupid question but what SMP stands for?
 
I would prefer a dual 1.8 over a dual 2.0 (simply for the fact that I don't need that much power, but would like a dualie). The 1.6 seems a bit overpriced(to me). Others would argue against that. If I had ordered a 1.8, I would switch to a dualie 1.8. Seems like a better deal to me. It wouldn't surprise me if they dropped the 1.8 all together.

-Capt Underpants
 
Originally posted by caveman_uk
I don't understand why they weren't all dual anyway.
Word! I keep thinking that Apple at some point will only offer duals. I think they did it once with G4s for a couple months. My question remains... Why did they make such a big issue about "The real performance gains" can be seen in Dual Processors? And that the G5 was "designed from the ground up for multiple processors." They say this in the same breath as the announcement of the new product line that includes two single processor G5s. What? That's retarded. Of course your going to want the dual when they tell you how your not really gonna feel the power of the chip with a single processor.
 
Originally posted by pianojoe
That's a typo. He meant to say 16A, not 6A.

I just wanted to point that out for the benefit of those who still believe that VWs are welded together by dwarves in the Black Forest. ;-)

Just kidding.

I thought those were elves in the VW plants.....
 
value

I agree that some people may not see the value in Apple systems, but that is their loss. I've accomplished lots on my old imac dv se. Sure it would be great if I woke up and the computer fairy had replaced my system overnight ( as long as she synced for me!), but come on! These single G5 processors are still light years ahead of what many of Apple's customers are using currently. Hell an eMac would be light years ahead of what I've been using.
As for Volkswagen, they were Mexican Nationalists building them not dwarves or elves, but now it's just robots. just like IBM. The remaining population not working after all manufacturing, customer service, data entry, and accounting is outsourced to some foreign land or built/managed by robotics will be sent off to war, in order to increase defense budget spending 'til the military is using a majority of robots to fight the battles. Of course we'll be hunting down all the dwarves and elves, offering extravagant rewards for their whereabouts, and any information about their weapons of mass destruction.
Maybe humans will be considered the legendary little people (dwarves and elves).
I'm sorry, I couldn't stop once I started.
 
Re: value

Originally posted by tex210
I agree that some people may not see the value in Apple systems, but that is their loss.

Well... It is this attitude that has brought us down to 2-3% marketshare. I believe Gassee [sp?] once said "you can only have a Mac if you deserve it" or some such thing. To a certain extent, then, perhaps Apple has deserved its fate.

But is Apple concerned about switchers, or is it not? If not, then great--the G5 is much faster than what we have now, and they can charge whatever they want and existing Mac users will pay for it.

And, sad to say, but I get the feeling that this is exactly how Apple sees it internally. Forget long term growth, just milk the existing base as much as possible, just enough so people don't switch away in droves. Which is too bad for me as a Mac user, at several levels.
 
Re: Re: Re: under 1600$ 1.6

Originally posted by oingoboingo
.... what are people planning to put in their PCI-X slots? I can only really think of large disk arrays (ie: SCSI and Fibre Channel controllers) or maybe high-end video capture and encoding equipment.

In my case, I wanted to leave the option of returning to Protools TDM at a later date - there's a bunch of PCI-X Digi cards under development, so the rumors go.

Others like TC and UA may eventually follow just to get comparable throughput. Whether they do or not, I've hedged my bets with the dual 2.0
 
Well... It is this attitude that has brought us down to 2-3% marketshare. I believe Gassee [sp?] once said "you can only have a Mac if you deserve it" or some such thing. To a certain extent, then, perhaps Apple has deserved its fate.

But is Apple concerned about switchers, or is it not? If not, then great--the G5 is much faster than what we have now, and they can charge whatever they want and existing Mac users will pay for it.

And, sad to say, but I get the feeling that this is exactly how Apple sees it internally. Forget long term growth, just milk the existing base as much as possible, just enough so people don't switch away in droves. Which is too bad for me as a Mac user, at several levels.

You couldn't have said it any better I whole hearteadly AGREE!!!!

But I just have a hope that this is going to be temporary, after they milk the power hungry with hefty premiums on the new machines they will drop the prices. Two reasons for that: They will have machines actually running for people to see the speed difference. Even if they had them cheap PC users wouldn't switch if only cause they haven't seen them running. And then they know that they can make tons of money on overpricing their machines simply cause mac fans will buy them anyway - I am not.

I will buy one at around 1600$ with an Apple screen, before that I am not paying even 1500$ to only have a main unit no matter how fast and gorgeous it is. It is not worth the premium. I will keep buying a new PB every two years. That is it and keep a PC for anything that needs lots of power until I dont have to pay more than 40% extra than a comparable PC. I dont like windows but XP is a decent OS and although OS X is much better that and iApps are not worth 2.5X the price of a comparable PC....

Example

1.6GHz Power Mac 80GB OS X 256DDR DVDR(NOT RW WHY???????), Nvidia 5200FX. + 17" Apple LCD
2000+tax = 2200+ 700$ LCD =2900 (NO DVDR and I am not sure if it is faster than 2.4GHz P4)

Sony 2.4GHz P4 WinXP Home, 60GB HD, 256MB DDR, DVDRW, 15"LCD, yes crappy graphics card. 899$+tax=980$
+250$ for a better graphics card and extra for an 80GB HD =around 1250$ an Extra 150 will get you a good 17" LCD so in all 1400$

So it is more than double. And if you go for something other than Sony the difference might be even bigger. The OS X experience is worth some extra money the better nicer looking higher quality casing and components I assume do too but not an extra 1600$ you buy 2 PCs for the price of one
 
add 2nd processor

i saw a post that indicated that you can add a second processor fairly easily to a single processor G5?

i would not think that it would be very easy at all.....

or is it?

what do you think?
 
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