Become a MacRumors Supporter for $25/year with no ads, private forums, and more!

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
55,437
17,780


The Netherlands Authority for Consumers and Markets (ACM) today announced an investigation into contactless platforms on smartphones and the access that payment apps have to NFC capabilities.

apple-pay-contactless-terminal.jpg

According to the ACM, the software that's on some smartphones "only allows the developer's own payment app to connect to NFC communication," preventing third-party payment apps from also being able to use NFC capabilities.

Apple is not specifically mentioned in the press release, nor are any other smartphone manufacturers, but on iPhones, Apple Pay is the only payment method able to use NFC. Apple does not permit other financial apps to use NFC, which has resulted in disputes with some banks and financial institutions.

In Australia, for example, banks petitioned the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission in an effort to negotiate with Apple over Apple Pay. The banks wanted open access for the NFC function on the iPhones. The bid was not successful and NFC continues to be restricted to Apple Pay on Apple devices.

The Netherlands Authority for Consumers and Markets says that limiting NFC on smartphones "may stifle innovation with respect to payment apps" as well as reducing freedom of choice for consumers and businesses.

The ACM plans to investigate whether limiting the payment apps' access to NFC does indeed reduce freedom of choice, and if that is indeed the outcome of the investigation, there could be a penalty, such as a fine.

As Bloomberg points out, Apple Pay is also under investigation by the European Commission to determine whether Apple's terms, conditions, and other measures related to the use of Apple Pay distort competition and reduce choice and innovation. The EC too is concerned that Apple Pay is the only mobile payment solution able to access NFC functionality for payments on Apple Devices.

Article Link: Dutch Antitrust Probe Targets Contactless Payments Like Apple Pay
 

Red Oak

macrumors 6502
Jun 14, 2011
324
1,731
All banks DO have access to Apple’s NFC. They simply need to allow their cards to work in Apple’s Wallet

The idea that one of these banks is going to create their own app and payment network with retailer support is ludicrous
 

ozzymo

Cancelled
Mar 19, 2012
342
211
All banks DO have access to Apple’s NFC. They simply need to allow their cards to work in Apple’s Wallet

The idea that one of these banks is going to create their own app and payment network with retailer support is ludicrous
Yes and why is that? Of course no one is going to create their own app and invest resources into supporting that app when Apple blocks out NFC from third parties. And yes once again, of course all cards work in Apple Pay. Why might you ask is that? So that Apple gets their sweet, sweet cut of every transaction. There is no plausible reason whatsoever for Apple to block NFC from third parties other than to force everyone and every bank to use Apple Pay so they get their cut. I like Apple Pay and I like using it; doesn't mean that no one else should be able to develop an app that uses NFC and might just might take a little slice of that juicy pie away from Apple.
 

MauiPa

macrumors 68030
Apr 18, 2018
2,618
3,693
I'm not getting it. as other people have noted, I can set Apple Pay to one or more of the credit cards at a myriad of banks - ergo, the banks have access to Apple Pay. I can also use my credit card to tap (really, that is a thing, no security at all, just tap at the checkout - way to go Visa!).

So the innovation that is lacking is what again? someone can come out with a less secure app, to to sell your payment data (Facebook Pay)?
 

MauiPa

macrumors 68030
Apr 18, 2018
2,618
3,693
Yes and why is that? Of course no one is going to create their own app and invest resources into supporting that app when Apple blocks out NFC from third parties. And yes once again, of course all cards work in Apple Pay. Why might you ask is that? So that Apple gets their sweet, sweet cut of every transaction. There is no plausible reason whatsoever for Apple to block NFC from third parties other than to force everyone and every bank to use Apple Pay so they get their cut. I like Apple Pay and I like using it; doesn't mean that no one else should be able to develop an app that uses NFC and might just might take a little slice of that juicy pie away from Apple.
I'm not sure if there is a fee to use Apple Pay. The vendor pays the swipe fees to the bank, but I cannot locate any discussion of any payments to Apple, Samsung, Google, etc for initiating the transaction. You sound so adamant about it, you must know more. Can you please send a link?
 

rjohnstone

macrumors 68040
Dec 28, 2007
3,776
4,175
PHX, AZ.
I'm not getting it. as other people have noted, I can set Apple Pay to one or more of the credit cards at a myriad of banks - ergo, the banks have access to Apple Pay. I can also use my credit card to tap (really, that is a thing, no security at all, just tap at the checkout - way to go Visa!).

So the innovation that is lacking is what again? someone can come out with a less secure app, to to sell your payment data (Facebook Pay)?
Apple earns a small fee on every transaction. Apple Pay is free for the consumer, but not for the bank.
Those fees add up over time. Lost revenue for the banks.
 

ozzymo

Cancelled
Mar 19, 2012
342
211
I'm not getting it. as other people have noted, I can set Apple Pay to one or more of the credit cards at a myriad of banks - ergo, the banks have access to Apple Pay. I can also use my credit card to tap (really, that is a thing, no security at all, just tap at the checkout - way to go Visa!).

So the innovation that is lacking is what again? someone can come out with a less secure app, to to sell your payment data (Facebook Pay)?
It's nothing to do with security. It has everything to do with Apple forcing everyone to use their app so that they get a cut of everything. There's nothing wrong with Apple Pay just like there would be nothing wrong with Apple letting banks develop their own app and access NFC. No one would be forced at gunpoint to use the bank's apps. It's all about consumer choice. Consumers could choose to use Apple Pay or use their bank's NFC app. Everyone wins with consumer choice except for Apple. And Apple protects its bottom line AT ALL COSTS. So you will see a lot of BUT SECURITY thrown around. That is all misdirection to take the focus off of Apple excluding third parties from NFC.
 

ozzymo

Cancelled
Mar 19, 2012
342
211
I'm not sure if there is a fee to use Apple Pay. The vendor pays the swipe fees to the bank, but I cannot locate any discussion of any payments to Apple, Samsung, Google, etc for initiating the transaction. You sound so adamant about it, you must know more. Can you please send a link?
So do you really think Apple developed and supports Apple Pay for free? Really? Come on, this is Apple that is worth over 2 trillion dollars. It's been reported Apple makes around .15% of every transaction with Apple Pay.
 

entropys

macrumors 6502a
Jan 5, 2007
896
1,519
Brisbane, Australia
Yes and why is that? Of course no one is going to create their own app and invest resources into supporting that app when Apple blocks out NFC from third parties. And yes once again, of course all cards work in Apple Pay. Why might you ask is that? So that Apple gets their sweet, sweet cut of every transaction. There is no plausible reason whatsoever for Apple to block NFC from third parties other than to force everyone and every bank to use Apple Pay so they get their cut. I like Apple Pay and I like using it; doesn't mean that no one else should be able to develop an app that uses NFC and might just might take a little slice of that juicy pie away from Apple.
You sound like the other barnyard animals in the story of the little red hen.
 

DeltaSVO

macrumors newbie
Aug 7, 2013
15
24
I can configure whatever credit card I want to use under Apple Pay. Apple Pay itself is free. So what is really the problem?
It's free for you, not for the other party involved in your transaction. That's the problem being discussed. No choice to the consumer which app to use for NFC access.

And no, not all cards work with Apple Pay, until a deal is negotiated on the back end.
 

MauiPa

macrumors 68030
Apr 18, 2018
2,618
3,693
It's nothing to do with security. It has everything to do with Apple forcing everyone to use their app so that they get a cut of everything. There's nothing wrong with Apple Pay just like there would be nothing wrong with Apple letting banks develop their own app and access NFC. No one would be forced at gunpoint to use the bank's apps. It's all about consumer choice. Consumers could choose to use Apple Pay or use their bank's NFC app. Everyone wins with consumer choice except for Apple. And Apple protects its bottom line AT ALL COSTS. So you will see a lot of BUT SECURITY thrown around. That is all misdirection to take the focus off of Apple excluding third parties from NFC.
How about the Samsung Pay and Google Pay users, how is Apple forcing them to use Apple Pay? And how about the old fashion swipe, or chip reading, how does Apple force anyone to use the app then? Seriously, everyone just seems to making stuff up, I know that is the times we are in (what evidence?), but I'm not seeing any reference to fees to Apple for initiating the transaction. I know the vendors pay a fee for the equipment vendors, but can't find Samsung, google or apple payment fees, can you help and send a link?
 

ozzymo

Cancelled
Mar 19, 2012
342
211
How about the Samsung Pay and Google Pay users, how is Apple forcing them to use Apple Pay? And how about the old fashion swipe, or chip reading, how does Apple force anyone to use the app then? Seriously, everyone just seems to making stuff up, I know that is the times we are in (what evidence?), but I'm not seeing any reference to fees to Apple for initiating the transaction. I know the vendors pay a fee for the equipment vendors, but can't find Samsung, google or apple payment fees, can you help and send a link?
What? That makes no sense according to the topic being discussed. Of course you can use old swipe cards. The topic is about iPhones. And if you have an iPhone and want to pay with NFC your only option is Apple Pay.
 

ozzymo

Cancelled
Mar 19, 2012
342
211
Apple's deals with banks and card holders are secret. No one knows the exact percentage Apple makes. The percentage that most experts speculate is around .15%. But what is not in dispute is that Apple is not supporting Apple Pay for free. They are 100000000% most certainly making money off of every single time someone uses Apple Pay.
 

rjohnstone

macrumors 68040
Dec 28, 2007
3,776
4,175
PHX, AZ.
I can't find any reference to that "fee" you mention, please snd a link
I work for a major credit card company... merchant services division.
Apple charges an interchange fee and a base percentage of each transaction.
Each contract is negotiated between Apple and the Bank or Card Issuer. Not all pay the same fee.
There's a reason why you can't use just any card with Apple Pay, or Samsung Pay, or even Google Pay.
They all charge the banks a fee for the "privilege" of being on a major digital wallet platform.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.