Dutch Antitrust Probe Targets Contactless Payments Like Apple Pay

[f12003_ga]

Here we go again!!

 

[MauiPa]

What? That makes no sense according to the topic being discussed. Of course you can use old swipe cards. The topic is about iPhones. And if you have an iPhone and want to pay with NFC your only option is Apple Pay.

No, you make a choice to use your phone, or not to use your phone - the customer is in control. Also many phones are not Apple, yet they have the same parameters, Samsung does not allow Apple Pay on their phones, last I checked

 

[MrKahuna]

If the EU pushes this, I hope they push from both directions. The large retailers should be forced to allow any valid NFC payment system and not limit it to just their own.

 

[rjohnstone]

No, you make a choice to use your phone, or not to use your phone - the customer is in control. Also many phones are not Apple, yet they have the same parameters, Samsung does not allow Apple Pay on their phones, last I checked

That is due to Apple, not Samsung. You can use any payment wallet you want (that is available for Android) on a Samsung phone. Including Google Pay.

 

[MauiPa]

Everyone here always takes Apple's side, but I think it's a valid complaint and that Apple should open NFC up to other apps. I'd use Paypal or possible other methods.

Apple's Side, you have heard of Samsung Pay? so the real issue you are not articulating, is that the manufacturer's (not just Apple) of phones have kept this functionality private, for a reason. a weak argument could be made about Android pay, or whatever it is called< but that is more of a licensing agreement issue, if Samsung used its market force and went with its own OS, they would not support that either.

 

[ozzymo]

I wanna use the NFC chip on my debit card to gain access to my apartment building. Can't do it. Guess I should call Chase and have them look into it. When they say no, I'll reach out to a antitrust lawyer to have them look into it.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic. I just don't see the difference in the situation.

Really? Apple uses the NFC chip to process financial transactions. Why can't Wells Fargo or Capital One use the NFC chip to process financial transactions? Equating your Chase debit card to the NFC reader on your apartment building is distorting the facts to fit Apple's narrative.

 

[britboyj]

Allowing third parties access to the NFC chip in the iPhone would be a huge security risk at large.

These types of anti-trust anti-consumer convenience lawsuits and laws dressed up as anti-competitive measures are going to make Europe a tech and media wasteland one day. The ROI simply won't be there once LATAM, Africa and the rest of APAC outside China catch up. Europe's outsized buying power will disappear and companies will simply ask "Why bother?"

 

[MauiPa]

Apple's deals with banks and card holders are secret. No one knows the exact percentage Apple makes. The percentage that most experts speculate is around .15%. But what is not in dispute is that Apple is not supporting Apple Pay for free. They are 100000000% most certainly making money off of every single time someone uses Apple Pay.

But.....so do the companies that process those payments, it's the bus. How about those in-store card readers and NFC readers, are we to believe that we should put third party apps on those as well, and yes, many of them charge fees! Fees, fees, everywhere are fees, clogging up the scenery, fee, ee, fees!

 

[Manzanito]

I can't find any reference to that "fee" you mention, please snd a link

It wasn’t that hard to find.

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-pay-to-generate-fees-from-banks-not-merchants-report-says/

It’s only logical. If apple is not collecting your information and it’s not charging you nor the vendors, there’s only one place left to charge for the service, the bank.

 

[ozzymo]

Apple's Side, you have heard of Samsung Pay? so the real issue you are not articulating, is that the manufacturer's (not just Apple) of phones have kept this functionality private, for a reason. a weak argument could be made about Android pay, or whatever it is called< but that is more of a licensing agreement issue, if Samsung used its market force and went with its own OS, they would not support that either.

Yes so Samsung locks down their NFC to their own payment app too. So what you are saying is well it's not wrong if everyone is doing it. And as others have stated if you are able to use Google Pay on your Samsung phone then it's not really locked down. On an iPhone you absolutely can not use anything else except Apple Pay

 

[rjohnstone]

Apple's Side, you have heard of Samsung Pay? so the real issue you are not articulating, is that the manufacturer's (not just Apple) of phones have kept this functionality private, for a reason. a weak argument could be made about Android pay, or whatever it is called< but that is more of a licensing agreement issue, if Samsung used its market force and went with its own OS, they would not support that either.

You would be wrong. Samsung doesn't restrict access to their NFC chip for many reasons. It's just good business. Why? Because there are more uses for the NFC chip beyond payments.
If your device is versatile, it will be more desirable. This is fairly common in the Android market. Overly proprietary devices don't last long.

 

[jz0309]

So what’s the alternative?
Bank A uses their app to use NFC so I have to open that app for it to work...
Bank B uses their app to use NFC...
Bank C ...

and since I use Apple Watch for Apple Pay I would have to open those apps on my watch vs pushing a button and swipe which card I want to use...

that is real innovation and provides more competitevness, ya right, as usual in Europe, the bureaucrats want to tell you how to use your smart device... no thanks.

 

[Ortiz83]

Everyone here always takes Apple's side, but I think it's a valid complaint and that Apple should open NFC up to other apps. I'd use Paypal or possible other methods. Nobody is forcing them to make a deal with Apple, Samsung, etc.

Why don’t they make their own phones then or digital wallet platform and add their own NFC chip in it if they don’t like it?

 

[ozzymo]

But.....so do the companies that process those payments, it's the bus. How about those in-store card readers and NFC readers, are we to believe that we should put third party apps on those as well, and yes, many of them charge fees! Fees, fees, everywhere are fees, clogging up the scenery, fee, ee, fees!

Those in store NFC readers already will accept any NFC payment app. I was in Walgreens the other day and the NFC reader had Apple Pay, google, and Samsung logos on it. So yes they already do accept third parties. And yes today every one charges fees. That is the reason why Apple locks down the NFC. They want to be the only one collecting all those nice fees.

 

[rjohnstone]

Yes so Samsung locks down their NFC to their own payment app too. So what you are saying is well it's not wrong if everyone is doing it. And as others have stated if you are able to use Google Pay on your Samsung phone then it's not really locked down. On an iPhone you absolutely can not use anything else except Apple Pay

No.. Samsung does not lock down their NFC to their own payment app. They never have. It's available to any digital wallet or app that needs it.

 

[Psychicbob]

Next: European Antitrust Probe Targets Tim Cook's Underwear

That’s an AntiTruss probe you’re thinking of

 

[ozzymo]

Why don’t they make their own phones then or digital wallet platform and add their own NFC chip in it if they don’t like it?

That's a scary argument every time I see someone make it. Besides being drunk on the Apple kool aid it's a very short sighted way to think. Imagine a world like that; you walk into Walmart and signs say we built this store and we pay all the employees so you can only use the Walmart credit card if you want to shop in here. You walk into the Safeway grocery store and it has the same sign except it says you have to use Safeway credit card to shop here. You want to go buy a new car, well sign up for the Toyota credit card because that is the only way you can shop at the Toyota dealer.

 

[ikramerica]

One choice I made when buying an iPhone is that I will use ApplePay. That’s a feature. And it costs me nothing directly. So as a consumer I am not harmed.

I can’t choose which payment processing service the merchant uses though. And the merchant isn’t contractually allowed to have more than one POS credit card processor.

So why is it such a big deal that I am “locked in” to a free service that makes it easier to use my credit cards of choice at merchants, but not a big deal that the merchants I shop at are locked into their processor and I have no choice?

“But they are free to choose a different processor!”

And I am free to choose another phone.

 

[3xBoom]

Idiotic. And this is mildly put.

 

[Ortiz83]

That's a scary argument every time I see someone make it. Besides being drunk on the Apple kool aid it's a very short sighted way to think. Imagine a world like that; you walk into Walmart and signs say we built this store and we pay all the employees so you can only use the Walmart credit card if you want to shop in here. You walk into the Safeway grocery store and it has the same sign except it says you have to use Safeway credit card to shop here. You want to go buy a new car, well sign up for the Toyota credit card because that is the only way you can shop at the Toyota dealer.

Scary or not, they have every right to post a sign like that.

 

[480951]

I'm not getting it. as other people have noted, I can set Apple Pay to one or more of the credit cards at a myriad of banks - ergo, the banks have access to Apple Pay. I can also use my credit card to tap (really, that is a thing, no security at all, just tap at the checkout - way to go Visa!).

So the innovation that is lacking is what again? someone can come out with a less secure app, to to sell your payment data (Facebook Pay)?

It’s because Apple is still getting some tiny percentage of money from people using Apple Pay, regardless of what cards are in there. The banks want to cut out the middleman and launch their own version so they get everything, tiny percentage of whatever fees they’re missing out on and all.

If they want to make such an issue of it and disable their cards to be used by Apple Pay I‘d just go back to using tap with the physical card, but it seems petty.

 

[FCX]

Privacy. For me, that's the benefit of Apple Pay. The merchant gets zero information about me or my habits, and that's why many merchants don't enable Apple Pay on their terminals. They want to track your spending habits. Apple Pay doesn't play that game. It even costs less for the banks, since Apple's system prevents massive amounts of fraud.

 

[ikramerica]

Also, remember when the regulators went after PayPal for being a real monopoly?

neither do I

 

[ozzymo]

One choice I made when buying an iPhone is that I will use ApplePay. That’s a feature. And it costs me nothing directly. So as a consumer I am not harmed.

I can’t choose which payment processing service the merchant uses though. And the merchant isn’t contractually allowed to have more than one POS credit card processor.

So why is it such a big deal that I am “locked in” to a free service that makes it easier to use my credit cards of choice at merchants, but not a big deal that the merchants I shop at are locked into their processor and I have no choice?

“But they are free to choose a different processor!”

And I am free to choose another phone.

Apple Maps is free correct? Why can't apple lock out Google Maps? iMessage is free correct? Why doesn't Apple lock out WhatsApp and hangouts or Facebook messenger. Just because an app is free to the consumer doesn't mean its ok to lock out any competitors.

 

[ozzymo]

Privacy. For me, that's the benefit of Apple Pay. The merchant gets zero information about me or my habits, and that's why many merchants don't enable Apple Pay on their terminals. They want to track your spending habits. Apple Pay doesn't play that game. It even costs less for the banks, since Apple's system prevents massive amounts of fraud.

Yea me too. And as consumers we should be allowed to continue to use Apple Pay or choose to use another service. Just because we like something and want to use it is not an argument to say I like this service so I don't want any other competitors.