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Is it me or does 50 million Euros not feel like very much for a company like Apple?

So what happens if this type of regulation just led to whole categories of apps being removed from the App Store entirely.
 
Is it me or does 50 million Euros not feel like very much for a company like Apple?

So what happens if this type of regulation just led to whole categories of apps being removed from the App Store entirely.
It’s not much and the Dutch know that Apple’s likely very willing to pay especially since it means they can keep the structure they created in response to the initial request.
 
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Amazing how many stupid people in this community would rather defend a multi billion dollar corporation rather then their fellow man and small app developers trying to make a living. It's as if you all failed Economics 101. Competition is good for the consumer.

You mean a fellow man like the Match Group with $2000+ billions in revenue (2019)?

Competition isn't always good for all consumers, especially consumers who aren't very price sensitive.
 
Funny how members living in Europe said Apple will not win antitrust laws in many of the European countries because their antitrust laws are so so more strict than that of the US and oh how they were laughed away by members who are Apple fans. Those Apple fans need to eat humble pie.
 
Laws need to be based on accurate interpretations of the market. In this case, the ACM is misrepresenting the market. iPhone users are not locked into using the App Store for a dating service. They can also use the internet or use use an Android phone. The "barriers" that the ACM talks about don't actually exist.

Example: Tinder is the primary company that made the complaint to the ACM and they had already developed an internet version of their service years earlier. This is like Spotify complaining about the 30% commission and then revealing that less than 1% of their iOS subscribers are subject to a commission and it's only 15%.
 
Dating apps? Maybe I am naive, but can't you build a website and give users the option to pay online? If you build and publish an app on Apple's eco-system accept their terms.
 
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Dating apps? Maybe I am naive, but can't you build a website and give users the option to pay online? If you build and publish an app on Apple's eco-system accept their terms.
Tinder already did that years ago and they're the ones that lead this complaint in the Netherlands. It's cynical at best.
 
Comparing Apple to Pears…..

Developers have a choice to take their business and app elsewhere… But no, they want to hitch on to iOS store and then complain about paying to use someone else’s infrastructure….
An infrastructure they have no choice to use since Apple doesn't permit developers to distribute apps using their own or other third party's infrastructure.
 
Would love to see the Dutch step up to the plate & announce that they are enacting New Law that will establish a Public Utility App Store, that competes head-on with Apple !

And, until that happens, that Sideloading (of iOS apps on iOS devices) MUST be supported by Apple :) !
Apple has competition, it’s called Android. MacOS has competition, it’s called Windows and Linux. I'm all for alternative pay,e t methods and always thought it stupid of Apple not to allow links to websites for purchases. That being said, Apple maintains the store, develops the API's, and should receive a percentage of sales.
 
It’s not much and the Dutch know that Apple’s likely very willing to pay especially since it means they can keep the structure they created in response to the initial request.
Incorrect. This particular Dutch legal instrument (“dwangsom” or penalty) is not a fine and certainly not a ransom. Apple is still obliged to comply with the ruling. If the penalty is insufficient it can be increased or more severe instruments could be used to make Apple comply.
 
An infrastructure they have no choice to use since Apple doesn't permit developers to distribute apps using their own or other third party's infrastructure.

Governments for the people and by the people are certainly not perfect but I'll take my chances with them over a global conglomerate when it comes to looking out for my best interests.
Ideally, but in general I don't think "the people" know what is in their best interests. So many people make terrible decisions managing their own lives because they are uninformed, misinformed, short-sighted, etc.
 
An infrastructure they have no choice to use since Apple doesn't permit developers to distribute apps using their own or other third party's infrastructure.
Incorrect. Developers can and do use the internet for payments and to provide web based apps. The reality is that anything that can be done in the App Store (search for info on developers/products, payments, apps) can also be done on the internet. The difference is that the App Store is using Apple's own IP and can provide some functions that aren't necessarily available through the internet.

IMO, that last part is the real reason for these lawsuits. Developers know that they aren't really locked into the App Store, but they're attempting to get free access to the IP and it's functions.
 
Ideally, but in general I don't think "the people" know what is in their best interests. So many people make terrible decisions managing their own lives because they are uninformed, misinformed, short-sighted, etc.
That's true of the business world and government as well. Human nature doesn't change just because you put on a suit.
 
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Dev here. That 30% cut is actually great. It means for a flat rate, I don't have to worry about hosting, payment processing, getting my app in front of millions of eyeballs. I don't have to worry about the exchange rate in Tokyo and what that means. I get to spend far less time administrating my business and more time writing code, which is what I want to do. It's probably also cheaper than what I would pay if I did do everything piecemeal and manually, not even counting my time and what that is worth.

Everyone advocating for alternate payment processors is really only supporting billion dollar companies. The only devs who would ever use something like that are those who have a full on dedicated dept to run it (aka Epic, Spotify, Microsoft, Google) and are trying to squeeze every last dollar out to bump the shareprice. You aren't defending small devs or one person shops who don't want to spend all day administrating a business to save $5. I'll gladly pay Apple and Google to do that for me.
If the App Store (and possibly other stores with the same 30% fee, like Google Play) is your only market, it may make sense for you. But if you have a subscription service that's also available on desktop/web, it becomes more complicated. You either eat up the losses from Apple's 30% fee or pass on the extra cost to the customer. The latter leads to inconsistent pricing, and you are forbidden from telling users that there is another place where they can get it for a lower price.
 
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Yeah, basically they are expecting Apple to say: “Here, use my infrastructure to advertise and distribute your product, and while you make money, I’ll just sit here making nothing.”.
? You pretty much described what Apple has allowed Amazon, Netflix, Spotify, Target, Starbucks, Uber, Lyft, Bank of America, TD Ameritrade, Robinhood, Coinbase, etc. to do for many years now.
 
The latter leads to inconsistent pricing, and you are forbidden from telling users that there is another place where they can get it for a lower price.
Netflix, Spotify, and Amazon Kindle were all highly successful moving 100% of payments involved with their App Store apps to the internet years ago. That all happened without any changes in laws and those are very mainstream kinds of apps that get used by the "typical" smartphone user. It should have failed if iPhone users were really that ignorant of other information sources etc, but they're not so...
 
Not going to happen but I'd love to see Apple pull out of Dutch market entirely. For votes countries are punishing success.
If Apple would allow side loading, etc. I'd not buy from other than Apple store. None are perfect but I trust Apple more than others.
 
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Didn’t it work though? I mean, $50 million is a small price to pay to be left alone. It’d be different if the Dutch said, “This is NOT suitable and we will accept anything short of full compliance!” Instead it’s more like, “Well, we don’t like it, but give us money and you can keep it JUST as you defined it.”

The current fine does not let Apple continue their current implementation. They've been fined five million for their lack of compliance so far, the fine can continue to scale upwards 10% of Apple's global turnover per infringement.
 
Incorrect. Developers can and do use the internet for payments and to provide web based apps. The reality is that anything that can be done in the App Store (search for info on developers/products, payments, apps) can also be done on the internet. The difference is that the App Store is using Apple's own IP and can provide some functions that aren't necessarily available through the internet. IMO, that last part is the real reason for these lawsuits. Developers know that they aren't really locked into the App Store, but they're attempting to get free access to the IP and it's functions.
And Apple could choose to not allow third-party native apps, but that would mean we'd all have to buy Android phones to use our favorite apps. You speak as if Apple's app APIs are some gift to developers given for free, when in fact they're an essential feature for Apple to have a competitive product in the market. It's curious how this "free access to IP" argument was a never a thing when it came to Mac apps. Would anyone buy a Mac without third-party apps? Why is it any different for smartphones?
 
Intresting responses here. I see three main catagories:

1) Finally someone is doing something
2) The fine is way to low
3) the dutch are crazy and should be punished

And its option 3 I genuinely do not understand. Whats with the punishing Dutch iPhone users? Is it protectionism of your favourite brand? So the Dutch government attacks your friend, you attack the Dutch governments friends? Explain this to me. I really would like to understand the logic.

(as for my opinion on this ruling. I really dont have one. I couldn't care less if Apple makes all the money or they have to share it around a bit.)
It's not that, its about the capitalist principal really.
Apple aren't making a public utility. They dont own a monopoly or some needed energy supply or any of that. It a private company that makes a set of devices that people buy because they like them.
And that private company should have the right to create contracts with other private companies about terms and pricing.

If Apple's price is too high, the market decides. If its too low the market decides.
What people object to is someone arbirtitally deciding who to favour in this process and creating new laws to enforce it. And then saying that its to protect the public when we all know its to make sure that these other companies make more money and apple makes less.

It doesnt seem right to me. And I dont like the precedent of successful companies who played by the rules, didnt lie and weren't criminal, to be cut down to size because some group lobbied a government!

Notice you have never heard a consumer or group of consumers who actually use these phones ask the govt for help over this. This is all other private businesses looking to make more money masquerading as some sort of good vs evil debate. Its ridiculous.
 
apple lose more market share as the dutch goes android?
The Dutch and almost everywhere outside the US is already Android. Which, of course, raises an interesting question. With the masses of Android devices there, they’re targeting a really small number of users which would be affected by this action (small number of users to start with, and less than 100% of those use dating apps). Seems peculiar.
 
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