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I am confused. 5 years of use is too short? And is it broken now and doesn't work anymore to do whatever you were doing this morning before the keynote??

No, I'm saying that my 2007-era MacBook Pro is still going strong and feels as zippy as it ever did, in part due to the fact that, two years ago, I was able to upgrade the RAM and hard drive. The 750 gig hard drive I installed was much, much larger than the stock 120 gig drive it shipped with, and that alone has made a huge difference. I fully expect that I could get another several years of life out of my MacBook Pro before I feel the need to replace it.

But, today, the MacBook Pros have non-replaceable RAM and SSD, meaning that once you feel like it's "too small", you're stuck. You have to sell and replace, because there's no way to upgrade. That would probably happen in far less time than the 5-8 years I expect to get out of mine. Newer MacBook Pros are designed to become obsolete faster.
 
Ok! Silly me. Hadn't thought about the change in RAM format also..
At least that implies that the RAM in the new non-retina mbp is upgradable :)

I made a mistake--the RAM *is* already there on Newegg. Looks like it's about $150 for 16G. I sort of like the idea of getting 8G now, and then waiting a year or so for there to be more selection, lower price, and user feedback so I don't have to be a guinea pig.

Bart
 
I feel like selling the 17" unibody makes sense now while it's absent from the new lineup I may get a premium price for it. Once the retina display comes to the 17" then the prices will come down unless that doesn't happen.


YO! You know what?

Some of my relatives are rich. Guess what. They ain't getting one.
Having money doesn't mean necessarily that you need to buy the latest gadgets all the time.

It boils down to that your money will be gone once you buy it. How much residual money will it give you after 2 years?

Those who are wealthy didn't get rich by spending all the time.

I mean:
How many people could actually see the difference?

I can, but I'm 24 and my eyesight is clearly above average.

If you have an 15" HiRes or a 17" Unibody, don't waste your money! :eek:

I mean, the screen isn't worth it's whoppy 2000$ price tag.
They can offer a retina iPad at 470$, mind you.

I feel sorry for people who are never content in their lifes, and who're sort of updating every time a new iteration of MBPs is coming to the stores.
 
Apple have stated the new glossy screen has a 75% reduction in glare, i personally prefer the glossy screen, looks so smart.

Hardly believable. Even in the video you could see it has plenty of glare. Not to mention glossy screens cause more eye strain/headaches than matte.
 
I for one love the glare on glossy MBP's. I use it as a mirror so I can see my wife coming from behind me when I'm doing "stuff".
I can see how that could be useful, but you probably don't want to see your own reflection while you are doing "stuff" do you :)
 
No, I'm saying that my 2007-era MacBook Pro is still going strong and feels as zippy as it ever did, in part due to the fact that, two years ago, I was able to upgrade the RAM and hard drive. The 750 gig hard drive I installed was much, much larger than the stock 120 gig drive it shipped with, and that alone has made a huge difference. I fully expect that I could get another several years of life out of my MacBook Pro before I feel the need to replace it.

But, today, the MacBook Pros have non-replaceable RAM and SSD, meaning that once you feel like it's "too small", you're stuck. You have to sell and replace, because there's no way to upgrade. That would probably happen in far less time than the 5-8 years I expect to get out of mine. Newer MacBook Pros are designed to become obsolete faster.

Same here, and I like to upgrade every 4-5 years. I have an early 2008 MPB (last non-unibody) which came with 2G and 200M hard drive. I upgraded it immediately to 4G from Newegg because Apple charged some crazy amount for 4G. Later upgraded to 6G RAM and 500M HD. If I couldn't upgrade, the laptop would've needed replacing much sooner (either that or I would've had to pay a heck of a lot more up front--I don't think 500M 7200 RPM HD was even an option then.)

Having said that, I think it's possible that in another generation (about 4 years), upgradability won't be as necessary. Already, the 16G option on the retina MBP isn't grossly expensive. The flash drives are the main blocking point now, but they are increasing size faster than the market need IMO--they'll catch up to market need in another few years.

But for right now, I want upgradeability for a decent price/performance. I think Apple came to the same conclusion which is why we still see them selling the non-retina MBP. I think it'll last another couple of iterations at least.

Bart
 
It may be retina, but isn't it still a 1440x900 workspace?

I stand corrected, it's not and you can scale it to pretty much whatever. Still no excuse for soldered SSD/RAM and a "PRO" machine.

It's a higher PPI, and menus will have to be larger because of it... time will tell as to who will benefit the most from the new resolution.

Agreed re: SSD and RAM, even though 8GB is excellent for a laptop. But removing such freedoms only makes the "walled garden" belief people have even more concrete. The main laptop cost is, all things considered, fair. Jacking up peripheral costs is just profiteering.

After the ridiculously small Mac Pro update I couldn't care less.

:)

What's the problem? Wouldn't you like it to be able to fry eggs on the go? ;)

Agreed. MBPs have historically ran very hot when used to full potential, or as close to it as possible. Compared to some other commodity Windows laptops of similar hardware capabilities... I would expect overheating from a low-end Dell laptop (e.g. the Latitude 6320). Not a high-end MacBook. Quality is not merely the veneer and advertised approach (aka "style over substance"). Quality is throughout, or not at all. Or, rather, quality is total, or is a lie.

That's what employers are for.

Ever hear of "BYOD"? ;)

Once that becomes mandatory rather than encouragement... (think how 401ks were once an encouragement as companies started to nix their own pension plans... now 401ks are mandatory, but unfortunately the stock market is nothing more than a casino...)

Who cares? The 13" is for college kids. The only feature that matters is the apple on the lid.

What, the actual operating system has no value???

And more than college kids use 13" displays... seems a silly generalization to claim...

Um, who else sells Macbook Pros??

Apple-authorized retailers.

It's been years since any GPU failed to be of "Pro quality". The only inadequacies are in the minds (and pants) of gamer-kiddies.

Photoshop, After Effects, and other apps make use of the GPU and video RAM. Again, the generalization you're claiming holds no weight.

Um, 4 cores? 16GM RAM? 4x the pixels? Robust enough that I won't snap it in half just by closing the lid? In 12 months the bulk of the rest of the laptop market will still be driven by cheap commodity units, which aren't going to sport 2880x1800 pixels. And even if they do, I'd still have a year of using a rockin' MBP.

"Commodity" = the same hardware Apple puts into its Macs, followed by a pretty veneer. Not the same concepts, but the same components (hardware or software). A Ferrari also uses a 6-cylinder engine but I would expect the components to be more than commodity-grade. You get the implied mindset from Apple with the prices, but implied mindset is not reality.

Also, 2880x1800 @ 300PPI squeezed into a 15" frame where, after a certain distance, people can't tell the difference.

Don't give up hope, there's always a chance that you'll lose your virginity by the time you reach 40.

If you want to value sex so much in your life, that's your problem. Happy scratching, treatment taking, early grave searching, parenting, and everything else that comes out of that happy activity...

Six admins in my group. All >35. Five of the six use 15" MBP's for our jobs. Most of our division, modulo the sales types, use MBP's too.

Do they still have their virginity? :)

BFD. Apple's been using those in other products for a while now. I had to buy a tiny screwdriver to open my MBP's memory cover, buying another oddball driver to crack into other products is no different. I'd much rather have *anything* over the stupidly-designed Philips head, engineered for failure, with a shape that encourages both driver slipping and stripping. Remember a few years ago when square recess screws were "exotic"?

You won me with "engineered for failure" and the definition following it.

I have three external drives that disagree.

SDXC. Big difference.

The cameras that most people use take SD* cards. Their use in DSLR's is even working its way up the chain as they progressively become competitive with CF, though I favor CF's larger size and physical robustness. It surely costs Apple almost nothing to put it in there.

Maybe. I do wish there were a 512GB option with the base CPU, which would have fit within our purchasing guidelines, where the 512GB + 2.6 GHz costs just barely too much.

CF does better for data integrity, but people want the smaller form factor. Style over substance...

Apple needs its 50%+ profit margin to keep shareholders happy. And some stakeholders, as used Mac prices are typically higher because Apple keeps the base prices higher. Lower the base prices and used equipment instantly loses a lot of 'value' as well.
 
Not sure what the highest ever priced laptop has been in apples history but I'm sure other models have been just as expensive if not more.
Much higher. Much. When I got my 2nd laptop, around 1996, their were two lines. High end was the PB 5xxx and started at over $5000, IIRC. Low end was the PB 1400 and mine cost $3500. If I had been paying, I wouldn't have got one at all.

Add in inflation since then and be pleased with current pricing.
 
Well, I've done it...
I bought the previous 17" MBP (or is it "current", since it's now discontinued?).

The main reseller store here in Belgium (Easy-M Computing) will get all the round-ups from their branche stores on thursday and I ordered one :)

I find it sad, but €3878.99 (15" rMBP/2.7 CPU/16GB RAM/768 GB SSD)+ €79 (Superdrive) + €29 (Ethernet adapter) + €49 (Ext. Keyboard/Numeric keypad) is just too much at this moment

Especially if I can get a 'new' 17" MBP (2.4 CPU/750 GB HDD) for €2499 + €49 (Ext. Keyboard/Numeric keypad) + €189.4 (16GB Kingston RAM)
and I can replace later on the optical drive with a SSD that has 3 years of garantee.

* €1=$1.2456


At this moment I find the rMBP not worth its price, but it's new so expensive. I'll expect that in two to three cycles (=years) from now the price will have dropped consideratly and that all the 'legacy' stuff that now is removed from the present machine will have become obsolete in the real world (what it still isn't). That will be the moment that I'll make the switch.
 
I'm visiting Vancouver in August, I'll pick one up then. We in the UK are torn to shreds on price. Rip Off Britain - you better believe it!!!

Don't forget we have to 20% VAT. The sales tax in the US is I believe around 5-10%.

If like me you're VAT registered, you only look at the price less VAT which is much more competitive.
 
Thanks for taking the time to post those links, but they seem to address 2011 mbp RAM upgrade. It's the new non-retina mbp RAM expandability that I'm concerned about.
Or am I being thick and ignorant and missing something there? :-|

sorry

the ram changed, but here are the correct options...

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Apple_MacBook_MacBook_Pro/Upgrade/DDR3_1600MHz_SDRAM

yes, you can do 16 Gig and NO, this doesn't change the fact that the retina MBP is factory locked on RAM is NOT upgradeable

You can rarely go wrong with OWC
 
So with 2 TB and 1 HDMI port, this thing can connect to 3 external displays, now does anyone know if it can actually drive 3 external displays or is it limited to 2?
 
My two cents on all those complaining about upgradeability in the Retina Macbook Pro:

If you’re not making enough money doing what you’re doing to bin a 2K machine every year and buy a new one as part of your business plan (given that it’s way less than you’ll be paying for offices or maybe even electricity) then you’re not a Pro.

Or, if you are, you’re not a very good one.

Not that you will have to bin it, of course, because you’ll simply sell the old one on eBay and upgrade to the latest model at a total swap-cost of what..? $500-$600 dollars? C’mon... that per annum for a Pro Machine, generating $00,000’s in income - into which you can plug almost any peripheral known to man?

My guess is, you’re the people whose mothers had to work two shifts just so that you could be seen to be wearing the latest sneakers in the schoolyard.


My two cents on your trolling....

First of all, the fact that one could buy this today and, as we have done for a decade or so, immediately buy third party ram upgrades, and then find out what was NOT made clear AT ALL on the Apple store website - not possible. So to feel like we're a pro by your standards, we then go and ebay a two week old computer, and take the several hundred pound hit before buying a new one within the month to run the software we use.

Upgradability and customisation has been crucial to the computer using experience. One can keep a mac useable professionally for 4-5 years easily, vs the older 2-4 years Windows cycle.

Two grand is a significant portion of income in a year even if you're doing well financially.

Some of us resent paying 50 percent premiums on ram because they come from apple.

Some of us especially resent the change in the upgradeability of the machines being completely non-obvious when you go to buy this thing from the Apple online store.

Some of us have built screaming machines to use in film and tv productions with these 3rd party extra parts. Some of us prefer the superior SSDs available from other vendors. Or building boot disk SSD raids inside our 17" MPB.

Ebaying a MBP is an exercise in caution, as its the most common magnet for scammers and timewasters as well as legitimate customers. Search through these forums for variations on the ebay experience, even if most of them work out.

As for your last comment about working two shifts, it makes no sense as its the fact that those who want the upgrade paths DON"T want to have to buy the latest shiniest shoes every year, but keep the old ones snappy by changing internals as they come down in cost.

But stay stupid.
 
I pity the fool who didnt understand the video on how the lid is constructed.

----------




Should have gone to specsavers

----------



Many professionals are not stupid enough to carry out that work on a notebook. Buy a desktop for gods sake. My desktop is way more powerful than any notebook on the planet and all it does is play skyrim.

I loath "professionals" who think that owning a laptop is enough to get by on. Your not a pro if you work like this. Your a fool

----------



All three were cool in 1999

The fool or stupid here is you. From where in my posts did I said that that I do MY professional architectonic or motion graphics or animation work on my laptop? I don't even use one at the moment, the one in my signature went to my wife precisely because is inadequate to do any Pro work, I still own it so that's why is there, I do my work on professional workstations.

Do the name calling and insulting in your home and GTFO.
 
I feel like selling the 17" unibody makes sense now while it's absent from the new lineup I may get a premium price for it. Once the retina display comes to the 17" then the prices will come down unless that doesn't happen.

Probably it's the other way 'round!
New 17'' MBPs, in their last agony, will be sold for much less than MRSP. The last of their kind are gonna be so cheap that it's actually gonna be a steal.. ;)
 
Photoshop, After Effects, and other apps make use of the GPU and video RAM. Again, the generalization you're claiming holds no weight.

agree 100%, Apple fanatics that defend the use of outdated GPU because video cards are only for gamers is pretty sad... 7970M is already available and 680M by end of the month, at least Apple should've considered using 670M and 675M instead...
 
1)The cost is insane for the low end 15" for $1799. And the $2199 Retina ONLY comes in a 256GB SSD. I have to shell out $600+ for the privilege of getting a larger drive by buying the $2799 model.

That's why you buy upgrades separately. You pay like double the "Apple tax" for RAM and HD upgrades.

2)It's not a pro machine for the price....it's built to be lighter, thinner, and sexier. Those qualities do not define "pro".

Yea I guess the quad core i7, 8GB RAM (upgradable to 16GB), backlit keyboard, etc. aren't "pro features." :rolleyes:

3)The Macbook became the Macbook Pro and the Retina Pro is a new model. Talk about mucking around with branding.

No, the MacBook Air is the 'new' consumer MacBook. The MacBook Pro has always been the MacBook Pro.

4)The $1799 (among others) Pro ships with a VERY weak 4GB of ram and 5400RPM drive. It also tops out at 8GB of ram and can't push 1920x1080. Again, this is labeled a "pro" machine...

I have 4GB RAM of my Mac Pro I run Adobe CS6 without issues. Although I plan to upgrade soon. But 4GB is hardly "VERY weak" as you put it.


All around some fair upgrades and they look nice...but the pricing is way off base...and no, I'm not buying a 13" laptop...those died in 1996.

A 13" laptop is adequate, especially for those who already have a desktop with larger monitor and/or who need maximum portability.
 
I made a mistake--the RAM *is* already there on Newegg. Looks like it's about $150 for 16G. I sort of like the idea of getting 8G now, and then waiting a year or so for there to be more selection, lower price, and user feedback so I don't have to be a guinea pig.

Bart

Merci beaucoup bartzumbari !
I'll check that right away in the equivalent french stores. Cheers.
 
sorry

the ram changed, but here are the correct options...

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Apple_MacBook_MacBook_Pro/Upgrade/DDR3_1600MHz_SDRAM

yes, you can do 16 Gig and NO, this doesn't change the fact that the retina MBP is factory locked on RAM is NOT upgradeable

You can rarely go wrong with OWC

Thx for the confirmation!

- real matte option
- more diverse connectivity
- storage upgrade possible
- included cd/dvd
- same RAM as retina possible
- retina display not important for my use (audio)

It's gonna be the non-retina one for me then.

----------

my two cents on your trolling....

First of all, the fact that one could buy this today and, as we have done for a decade or so, immediately buy third party ram upgrades, and then find out what was not made clear at all on the apple store website - not possible. So to feel like we're a pro by your standards, we then go and ebay a two week old computer, and take the several hundred pound hit before buying a new one within the month to run the software we use.

Upgradability and customisation has been crucial to the computer using experience. One can keep a mac useable professionally for 4-5 years easily, vs the older 2-4 years windows cycle.

Two grand is a significant portion of income in a year even if you're doing well financially.

Some of us resent paying 50 percent premiums on ram because they come from apple.

Some of us especially resent the change in the upgradeability of the machines being completely non-obvious when you go to buy this thing from the apple online store.

Some of us have built screaming machines to use in film and tv productions with these 3rd party extra parts. Some of us prefer the superior ssds available from other vendors. Or building boot disk ssd raids inside our 17" mpb.

Ebaying a mbp is an exercise in caution, as its the most common magnet for scammers and timewasters as well as legitimate customers. Search through these forums for variations on the ebay experience, even if most of them work out.

As for your last comment about working two shifts, it makes no sense as its the fact that those who want the upgrade paths don"t want to have to buy the latest shiniest shoes every year, but keep the old ones snappy by changing internals as they come down in cost.

But stay stupid.

+1 !

----------

My two cents on all those complaining about upgradeability in the Retina Macbook Pro:

If you’re not making enough money doing what you’re doing to bin a 2K machine every year and buy a new one as part of your business plan (given that it’s way less than you’ll be paying for offices or maybe even electricity) then you’re not a Pro.

Or, if you are, you’re not a very good one.

Not that you will have to bin it, of course, because you’ll simply sell the old one on eBay and upgrade to the latest model at a total swap-cost of what..? $500-$600 dollars? C’mon... that per annum for a Pro Machine, generating $00,000’s in income - into which you can plug almost any peripheral known to man?

My guess is, you’re the people whose mothers had to work two shifts just so that you could be seen to be wearing the latest sneakers in the schoolyard.

Why such bad vibe and contempt and $$ pissing contest?
Pros don't troll.
Peace.
 
So with 2 TB and 1 HDMI port, this thing can connect to 3 external displays, now does anyone know if it can actually drive 3 external displays or is it limited to 2?

You shouldn't equate the number of ports to monitors ever, especially as we get to hi speed connections that do daisy chains of devices.
 
No it doesn't. And I personally wouldn't trust a Kensington lock with a $2.500 laptop. It might be sufficient to secure a mid-priced laptop during a bathroom break in the library, but a high-end notebook that is easily identified as one best stays close to you at all time or at least safely locked away.

You have a point... but... I have worked in countless mac based offices / studios where people leave their Macbook Pros set up, as I do. It's secure enough for most situations inside companies, not a public library granted.

As a side.... You're not going to take your laptop to the bathroom are you... unless your watching porn? :D
 
Ultra powerful, ultra fast and ultra portable is exactly what i wanted, and plus i get an amazing display.

Im carrying my laptop every single day to uni, around uni, and back. Since I'm an architecture student i need a really powerful,reliable and zippy machine which of i can trust and work without any lag, i mean, that top model for 2k pounds with student discount is totally worth it in my opinion. I get everything i need, i can swap to windows in seconds, a can not worry that open photoshop to edit a picture and create a new document in indesign gonna take much longer than i can actually spend, i won't worry that rendering process gonna crash my computer and i just can grab it without any difficulties go upstairs to printing room with roll of A1 sheets in one hand and computer in other, and i know that if i push it harder it won't bend inside like many other pcs would.

I really think it's the best computer ever made, and apple just introduced that 'next level of laptops', its gonna take about two years until they actually update the whole lineup, until 13 inch macbook pro gonna be updated with new design, until the macbook airs and iMacs gonna get retina displays and all third party software gonna be adopted for retina resolution. And all what competitors is left to do is try to catch them up.
 
No, I'm saying that my 2007-era MacBook Pro is still going strong and feels as zippy as it ever did, in part due to the fact that, two years ago, I was able to upgrade the RAM and hard drive. The 750 gig hard drive I installed was much, much larger than the stock 120 gig drive it shipped with, and that alone has made a huge difference. I fully expect that I could get another several years of life out of my MacBook Pro before I feel the need to replace it.

But, today, the MacBook Pros have non-replaceable RAM and SSD, meaning that once you feel like it's "too small", you're stuck. You have to sell and replace, because there's no way to upgrade. That would probably happen in far less time than the 5-8 years I expect to get out of mine. Newer MacBook Pros are designed to become obsolete faster.

Ah, now I understand Thanks.

Yes, well it's just one model for now the others are still upgrade-able. Let's hope they modify the design in the years to come. Apple does have a history of not allowing upgrades in the pros...
 
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