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Early Intel Forum

retta283

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 8, 2018
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Victoria, British Columbia
There have been a few discussions on this before, but I wanted to attempt to bring it to attention again. I'm a fairly active participant in the PowerPC Macs forum, and there has been a desire from a seemingly large number of other members for an Early Intel forum cut from a similar cloth.

The benefits of this would be appreciated by both moderators and users, for it would give a clear location for posts on this hardware and these OSes and the way they intertwine. Posting in the respective hardware boards elicit little response, as most of their current users are unfamiliar with the hardware and software being discussed, either being unable to assist or in rare cases insulting the user of this hardware/software. Posting in PowerPC Macs has always been muddy, the community is certainly receptive to this discussion but the rules on the validity of this remain gray. New users also may not be willing to ask in the PowerPC Macs forum, not knowing that the community there is knowledgable on this hardware.

Certainly we can hammer out the details as to what this new forum can consist of, and I do believe the users (and moderators) that anticipate this board can come to a consensus as has been done already to some extent in past discussions. But I think this is the time to get the ball rolling as early Intel related posts have noticeably gone up in the last 2 years. Hope this can kickstart a discussion.
 

WildCowboy

Administrator/Editor
Staff member
Jan 20, 2005
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So what would people like to see as a cutoff for this forum? All models introduced before a certain year?
 
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MtLoin2020

macrumors 6502
Dec 10, 2020
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sunny florida
Is there an intel difference between my 2010 macbook air and a 2018 one?
i do not think so, but there are tricks and tips that dont work the same on these units as well.
 
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retta283

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Original poster
Jun 8, 2018
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Is there an intel difference between my 2010 macbook air and a 2018 one?
i do not think so, but there are tricks and tips that dont work the same on these units as well.
There are many differences in both hardware and software. A Core 2 Duo is not very similar to a 2018 version of an i3 in terms of capability.
 
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Raging Dufus

macrumors 6502
Aug 2, 2018
495
862
Kansas USA
My first suggestion is that an Early Intel forum exclude discussions of early Mac Pros, and instead direct those to the existing Mac Pro forum, which from what I understand is quite good. An Early Intel forum would of necessity be heavily involved with the limitations of the early Intel-powered hardware; but Mac Pros are readily upgradeable (CPU's, graphics, etc.) to give them far greater capabilities than they shipped with. Further, Mac Pros are alone in this distinction: none of the other early Intel Macs are nearly so user-upgradeable (some can take CPU upgrades, but only people with a certain level of skill and comfort taking apart a computer would attempt it; and none AFAIK can take a graphics upgrade without some soldering involved).

For every other type of Intel Mac, I suggest we limit the discussion to those powered by Intel's early Core architecture. By that I mean nothing more advanced than a Core 2 Duo. Official Apple support for these computers tops out at a given Mac OS: Core Solos and Core Duos can run up to Snow Leopard; early Core 2 Duos can run up to Lion; and later Core 2 Duos top out at either El Capitan or High Sierra depending on what graphics hardware they have. AFAIK there is no Core 2 Duo that can boot any Mac OS later than High Sierra without certain hacks being performed. This makes for a natural set of legacy hardware and legacy OS's, since Apple only last month dropped support for High Sierra.

This also makes for an easy way for new forum users to distinguish whether their question belongs in the Early Intel forum. "About this Mac" always tells you up front what sort of processor your Mac is running. If you have a Core Solo, Core Duo, Core 2 Duo, welcome to the forum! If you have a Core i3/i5/i7, or Apple Silicon, or PowerPC or something else, you need to post elsewhere.

FWIW.
 
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retta283

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Jun 8, 2018
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Victoria, British Columbia
Why not look a bit further into the future and lump all Intel macs together ? They'll all be obsolete soon enough.
We also don't need a separate forum for G4s vs G5s etc.

Or if there really is a more immediate need: make one for intel macs that are no longer supported in the current macOS. [cutoff where apple consideres it obsolete ?] That way the forum's topic expands over time while at the same time the number of people still clinging to such machines decreases.
The forum can easily be renamed "Intel" when the time comes. No need to do that right now, it would greatly confuse people while the transition is ongoing, a number of these boards (iMac, Mac Pro, MacBook) don't have M1 versions so removing them is needless at this time.
 
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mdgm

macrumors 65816
Nov 2, 2010
1,295
148
In my view Early is the older Intel Macs with a cutoff around 2012.

Then for the later Intel Macs there's the Pre-T2 Macs and the Intel Macs with a T2 chip. The ones without the T2 chip can have the internal storage upgraded.
 
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AL1630

macrumors 6502
Apr 24, 2016
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Idaho, USA
I agree with the 2012 cutoff. I suspect the majority of traffic would be 2006-2009/10 seeing the other forum activity but I think 2012 is a good choice. That way people with older but still semi-modern machines can have a better home on the site. Then the date can easily be rolled forward as the M1 switch continues.
 
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Raging Dufus

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Aug 2, 2018
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My problem with a date-certain cutoff like 2012 is this: only people with some experience with this older hardware (like us) are likely to know what year their particular hardware was manufactured. I think most of our new user traffic is likely to come from people who picked up their Mac second- or third- hand. They didn't buy it new, and have no idea when it was made.

And, it's not always easy to tell. For instance, I'm typing this on a 2007 MacBook Pro running El Capitan. Nowhere in this configuration can I get - from looking at the Mac or the OS - an indication of the year it was introduced/built. The information just isn't there. See below:


Untitled.jpg


Going to System Report from there isn't any help. Looking at the Mac itself isn't any help. If I don't know what I have, the only thing I can do is take one of the model or part numbers and do a web search, or plug it into a website like everymac.com - if I even know where to look for one of these numbers, and what to search.

But, by simply looking at the information provided by "About this Mac", anyone can see what processor their Mac is running. To me, this is much easier and less daunting for new forum users. Just my opinion.

On another point, in the future when all Intel Macs become obsolete, the Early Intel forum can be folded in with a Later Intel forum under a common heading, much like what's done currently with "Older OS X Versions". The catch-all heading could be simply "Intel Macs" with a subforum for "Early Intel" and one for "Later Intel", however we ultimately decide to differentiate between those two.
 
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TheShortTimer

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2017
620
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London, UK
On another point, in the future when all Intel Macs become obsolete, the Early Intel forum can be folded in with a Later Intel forum under a common heading, much like what's done currently with "Older OS X Versions". The catch-all heading could be simply "Intel Macs" with a subforum for "Early Intel" and one for "Later Intel", however we ultimately decide to differentiate between those two.
My thoughts exactly. It seems like a logical and practical solution.
 
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RogerWilco6502

macrumors 68000
Jan 12, 2019
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2006-2012 is approximately what I remember the era to be, I'll try to get some of the other Proponents of this board to chime in.

For laptops, if they use a Magsafe 1 adapter, they are early Intel ;)

Cheers :)

Hugh
I like both of these ideas
My problem with a date-certain cutoff like 2012 is this: only people with some experience with this older hardware (like us) are likely to know what year their particular hardware was manufactured. I think most of our new user traffic is likely to come from people who picked up their Mac second- or third- hand. They didn't buy it new, and have no idea when it was made.
Maybe instead we could specify an OS cutoff in that case? Like if your computer's maximum OS is Mac OS 10.13 or earlier or something, then it would fall into this category? Alternatively, we could use information given directly in the system report, such as limiting it to Core 2 Duo Macs or something along those lines.
 
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Raging Dufus

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Aug 2, 2018
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I like both of these ideas

Maybe instead we could specify an OS cutoff in that case? Like if your computer's maximum OS is Mac OS 10.13 or earlier or something, then it would fall into this category? Alternatively, we could use information given directly in the system report, such as limiting it to Core 2 Duo Macs or something along those lines.
I don't disagree with an OS cutoff (I really don't disagree with anything that's been proposed so far). But again, how is an inexperienced user supposed to know where to find this information? It's not available on or in their Mac. They'll still have to figure out model/part numbers and search that info out themselves.

My focus with using something readily available like a processor type reported in ATM is that it's easily accessible by virtually anyone who knows anything about using a Mac. That, and a simple stickied "Read this before posting" announcement could instruct new users to check ATM to see if they're in the right place.

I think specifying a year, or a max OS, will not encourage participation by new/inexperienced forum users. I think instead it will lead to a lot of unnecessary questions and/or new people just not posting, for fear of being treated with disrespect (as happens frequently on other computing-related web forums). The most basic information one needs to seek help is what type of Mac they have. If we're trying to limit the forum to whatever we decide "Early Intel" is, then our discriminating factor should be something new users can easily determine for themselves. My $.02.
 
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RogerWilco6502

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Jan 12, 2019
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I don't disagree with an OS cutoff (I really don't disagree with anything that's been proposed so far). But again, how is an inexperienced user supposed to know where to find this information? It's not available on or in their Mac. They'll still have to figure out model/part numbers and search that info out themselves.

My focus with using something readily available like a processor type reported in ATM is that it's easily accessible by virtually anyone who knows anything about using a Mac. That, and a simple stickied "Read this before posting" announcement could instruct new users to check ATM to see if they're in the right place.

I think specifying a year, or a max OS, will not encourage participation by new/inexperienced forum users. I think instead it will lead to a lot of unnecessary questions and/or new people just not posting, for fear of being treated with disrespect (as happens frequently on other computing-related web forums). The most basic information one needs to seek help is what type of Mac they have. If we're trying to limit the forum to whatever we decide "Early Intel" is, then our discriminating factor should be something new users can easily determine for themselves. My $.02.
Ah, yeah. I see what you mean. I definitely like processor type the best out of all proposed criteria but, like you, I don't disagree with anything that has been stated.
 
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retta283

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 8, 2018
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Victoria, British Columbia
I definitely understand the points of the above posts on ease of finding info. Especially if they're running an older OS without that nice screen that gives the OS and full specs, they will have little clue what year their machine is. Processor name has always been front and center there.
 
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AL1630

macrumors 6502
Apr 24, 2016
410
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Idaho, USA
There could be instructions in a pinned post to check if the computer is eligible or not. Like a photo guide to About This Mac and System Report with both the new style and the older one. ex. if your model number (Macbook 5,2 or whatever) is this or lower post here, if higher go to the main intel forum. Just a thought.
 
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bunnspecial

macrumors 604
May 3, 2014
7,377
4,507
Kentucky
First of all, thanks for making this happen! IMO, it's been a long time coming, but none the less is good to see now.

I think the cut-off is a good one. When I think of early Intel I think of things like the pre-Unibody MBP and the "white plastic" computers(iMac, iBook). These all fall under the CD/C2D cut-off. Of course there are some aluminum unibody computers that are C2D, and in fact I don't think Apple got rid of them completely until the 2011 models were introduced.

IMO, 2012 at this point in time is too tight of a cut-off. 2012 computers still officially run supported OSs(Catalina and Mojave). Similarly, the Magsafe 1/Magsafe 2 cutoff, while easy to follow, weirdly straddles computers of similar age and capability-i.e. I'd argue that in 2021 an MBP 9,1(15" unibody non-retina) is probably a more capable computer than the first generation 15" Retina that was introduced in 2012 and introduced Magsafe 2. Don't forget also that one particular Magsafe computer, the MBP 9,2, wasn't discontinued until like 2015 or 2016 IIRC.
 
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bobesch

macrumors 68000
Oct 21, 2015
1,689
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Kiel, Germany
Oh, I just found this thread today. Thanks guys to make this happen! 😍
Core(2)Duo is quite a reasonable official limitation (even if I would have rather seen 2012 as the limiting date) - but I strongly believe no one with questions about a later Legacy Mac (beyond C2Duo) will receive stupid answers ...
 
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