Early iPhone 7 Case Has No Headphone Jack and Stereo Speaker Cutouts

[DevNull0]

People are creatures of habit. Even if they're told something else is better, they will keep using what they know and have been using.

Oh wow, what a horribly dangerous concept.

So I have an old system that works for me, that I'm happy with and I want to continue using. Then along comes a new system which I look at and reject in favor of what works for me. But now the supporters of this new system realize I am just a poor misguided creature of habit. They told me what's better and I rejected it. So clearly, for my own good, it is their duty to persuade me to switch to the new system.

So now, I have decided that 3.5mm headphones offer better sound quality, better comfort, better convenience, and are cheaper than any other option. But I'm wrong because you you told me your way is better so it's your duty to convert me? And you actually convince yourself it's for my own good.

All the evil in the history of the human race comes from the concept you're trying to use.

Oh, those poor misguided Jews, we told them Jesus is the messiah, but they are stubborn creatures of habit stuck in their old ways even though we told them our way is better. Let's guide them onto the right path. For their own good, of course.

And those poor American Indians, stuck in their uncivilized past even though we've told them the wonders of our society, they're creatures of habit stuck in their way. Let's lead them to the right way of doing things. For their own good, of course.

All those silly Americans voting for their leaders out of some silly habit of democracy, we told them the proper way to run a country is an Oligarch like Putin. But they just wouldn't listen. We should really step in and show them the error of their ways. For their own good, of course.

You could quite literally spend a life time adding things to this list and not even scratch the surface. Residential Schools in Canada. The Exile of the Dali Lama. Every fascist, communist regime that has oppressed its own people for the common good. The genocide in Serbia.

One of the strongest arguments against Women's Suffrage was that "Nice women don't want the vote". Politics is a dirty and vulgar game, allowing women to vote would pervert them, so they should be sheltered from it. For their own good, of course.

There is not a single atrocity ever committed by humans on this planet that does not begin with what I just quoted from you.

And now how dare you presume to tell someone else what is good for them and insist that you are right and they are wrong no matter how much they disagree?

 

[Foremastjack]

I agree 100% on this and was even thinking the same thing earlier today (Yes, I ponder too much)

People are creatures of habit. Even if they're told something else is better, they will keep using what they know and have been using.

Seems like the most likely reason as to why they would remove the jack. They want to promote whatever hi res audio for iTunes and Apple Music they're said to be releasing as early as this year. Remove the jack so that more people are led into trying Lightning and hearing the hi res digital audio vs not caring and continuing to just use 3.5mm.

I would have to find the article again but I did read that 3.5mm is only capable of roughly cd quality, while Lightning can get equal or very close to studio quality levels.

I know you love when I mention interference, but moving to digital does eliminate any crosstalk and interference that effects analog from cellular, wifi or anything else. It's fact all analog can experience RFI (radio frequency interference), digital does not.

I agree 100% on this and was even thinking the same thing earlier today (Yes, I ponder too much)

People are creatures of habit. Even if they're told something else is better, they will keep using what they know and have been using.

Seems like the most likely reason as to why they would remove the jack. They want to promote whatever hi res audio for iTunes and Apple Music they're said to be releasing as early as this year. Remove the jack so that more people are led into trying Lightning and hearing the hi res digital audio vs not caring and continuing to just use 3.5mm.

I would have to find the article again but I did read that 3.5mm is only capable of roughly cd quality, while Lightning can get equal or very close to studio quality levels.

I know you love when I mention interference, but moving to digital does eliminate any crosstalk and interference that effects analog from cellular, wifi or anything else. It's fact all analog can experience RFI (radio frequency interference), digital does not.

Just a note-and it's a minor note- digital audio is subject to interference as much as any other audio system that uses electricity. Most interference comes from the device itself- that's why an amp hums when you plug your violin into it. A plug change from 3.5mm to lightning isn't going to change that. I work with audio all day, every day, digital, and analog. My DAWS equipment has 3.5mm jacks, and works just fine- a shielded cable does more than the plug ever will.

 

[Mac 128]

I agree 100% on this and was even thinking the same thing earlier today (Yes, I ponder too much)

People are creatures of habit. Even if they're told something else is better, they will keep using what they know and have been using.

Seems like the most likely reason as to why they would remove the jack. They want to promote whatever hi res audio for iTunes and Apple Music they're said to be releasing as early as this year. Remove the jack so that more people are led into trying Lightning and hearing the hi res digital audio vs not caring and continuing to just use 3.5mm.

I would have to find the article again but I did read that 3.5mm is only capable of roughly cd quality, while Lightning can get equal or very close to studio quality levels.

I know you love when I mention interference, but moving to digital does eliminate any crosstalk and interference that effects analog from cellular, wifi or anything else. It's fact all analog can experience RFI (radio frequency interference), digital does not.

I agree with pretty much everything you've stated here. I'll be the first to admit that 3.5mm analogue connector can be noisy for all the reasons you stated and then some. As for what it's capable of, it's certainly capable of passing the highest HQ analogue audio, but is entirely dependent on the DAC and amp converting the digital source. All audio equipment suffers at the conversion to analogue from the playback medium, whether from digital source, magnetic tape, or grooves on a record. The longer the cable run, quality of the cables, and the more interference sources along the way, the worse the signal degradation. Just because Lightning outputs a digital signal doesn't mean that the end result will be any better, because at the end of the chain, the digital signal has to be converted to analogue, whether it's in a home stereo system, a set of headphones, or a car stereo. And the quality of audio is entirely dependent on the quality of all the devices in the chain.

Saying that 3.5mm is "CD quality" vs. Lightning being "studio quality" doesn't really tell us much. A CD is essentially a digital representation of "studio quality" mastering but at 16-bit/44.1KHz sample rates whereas a studio is reproducing 24bit/48khz sample rates. But that's just the sound file, not the analogue conversion. If a speaker doesn't reproduce the extra frequencies involved, it doesn't really matter what the original source material is, or the quality of the DAC, or amp. That said, CDs are 16-bit depth and studios tend to use 24bit or greater sound files. So there will be a difference in that sound quality. However, the 3.5mm jack has nothing to do with any of that. Whether a 16/44.1 CD quality sound file, or a 24/48 studio quality sound file is decoded and sent out, the 3.5mm jack will handle it just as well as any other analogue link in the sound reproduction chain.

The difference is this: assuming an HQ sound file, putting a DAC and amp capable of reproducing an HQ sound file is going to be a lot more expensive than what's in the iPhone now, and take up a lot more space. So it's a lot easier to move the decoders and amps outboard where there's more space, and cost is determined by the consumer. Unfortunately this isn't going to really help with any slim adapters most customers are going to want. But, by going Lightning out into a native Lightning device, they will reduce the distance the analogue cable has to run, and therefore reduce the amount of noise introduced into the chain, noise which only then gets amplified at the reproduction end. The quality of the sound file is otherwise not affected by the 3.5mm jack, versus what passes through the Lightning port, assuming the use of a Lightning to 3.5mm adapter with similar quality DAC and amp as to what Apple's already using, or even a set of headphones that converts the digital signal inside the headphones.

 

[teknikal90]

Oh wow, what a horribly dangerous concept.

So I have an old system that works for me, that I'm happy with and I want to continue using. Then along comes a new system which I look at and reject in favor of what works for me. But now the supporters of this new system realize I am just a poor misguided creature of habit. They told me what's better and I rejected it. So clearly, for my own good, it is their duty to persuade me to switch to the new system.

So now, I have decided that 3.5mm headphones offer better sound quality, better comfort, better convenience, and are cheaper than any other option. But I'm wrong because you you told me your way is better so it's your duty to convert me? And you actually convince yourself it's for my own good.

All the evil in the history of the human race comes from the concept you're trying to use.

Oh, those poor misguided Jews, we told them Jesus is the messiah, but they are stubborn creatures of habit stuck in their old ways even though we told them our way is better. Let's guide them onto the right path. For their own good, of course.

And those poor American Indians, stuck in their uncivilized past even though we've told them the wonders of our society, they're creatures of habit stuck in their way. Let's lead them to the right way of doing things. For their own good, of course.

All those silly Americans voting for their leaders out of some silly habit of democracy, we told them the proper way to run a country is an Oligarch like Putin. But they just wouldn't listen. We should really step in and show them the error of their ways. For their own good, of course.

You could quite literally spend a life time adding things to this list and not even scratch the surface. Residential Schools in Canada. The Exile of the Dali Lama. Every fascist, communist regime that has oppressed its own people for the common good. The genocide in Serbia.

One of the strongest arguments against Women's Suffrage was that "Nice women don't want the vote". Politics is a dirty and vulgar game, allowing women to vote would pervert them, so they should be sheltered from it. For their own good, of course.

There is not a single atrocity ever committed by humans on this planet that does not begin with what I just quoted from you.

And now how dare you presume to tell someone else what is good for them and insist that you are right and they are wrong no matter how much they disagree?

it's a headphone jack.
it's really not that deep fam

 

[Rigby]

The difference is this: assuming an HQ sound file, putting a DAC and amp capable of reproducing an HQ sound file is going to be a lot more expensive than what's in the iPhone now, and take up a lot more space.

Actually no. Assuming by "HQ sound" you mean 24 bit/48 kHz audio, such a DAC is neither significantly more expensive nor does it consume more room. I wouldn't be surprised if the DAC in the iPhone already supports this on the hardware level. And the amp stage is completely independent of the digital coding format.

The main bottleneck for audio quality in small mobile devices is not the DAC (even inexpensive ones often produce far less noise these days than human hearing can detect), but the power supply and amp. In particular, such devices typically don't have enough Vrms available to drive headphones with higher impedance (which tend to sound better due to higher damping). This is even more true for Bluetooth earbuds with their tiny batteries.

But, by going Lightning out into a native Lightning device, they will reduce the distance the analogue cable has to run, and therefore reduce the amount of noise introduced into the chain

This is completely insignificant.

 

[Mac 128]

Actually no. Assuming by "HQ sound" you mean 24 bit/48 kHz audio, such a DAC is neither significantly more expensive nor does it consume more room. I wouldn't be surprised if the DAC in the iPhone already supports this on the hardware level. And the amp stage is completely independent of the digital coding format.

The main bottleneck for audio quality in small mobile devices is not the DAC (even inexpensive ones often produce far less noise these days than human hearing can detect), but the power supply and amp. In particular, such devices typically don't have enough Vrms available to drive headphones with higher impedance (which tend to sound better due to higher damping). This is even more true for Bluetooth earbuds with their tiny batteries.

Actually yes. What I meant by HQ was 24bit/96k. You'll also note I stated DAC AND AMP. But thanks for clarifying the difference.

This is completely insignificant.

Of course it's not. If someone uses a poor quality cable and plug to connect their headphones to a 3.5mm jack, then it will be exposed to more noise than a well shielded one. In which case, far more noise is introduced into the chain than if the conversion is happening inside a pair of well shielded cans, or amp. Also, a loose connector, long cable runs, and multiple connection points for that matter, will likewise introduce noise into the mix as well, which won't happen with a digital signal.

 

[DevNull0]

it's a headphone jack.
it's really not that deep fam

I'm not your fam.

Apple and their headphone jack has nothing to do with it. Apple is offering a product. If people like it, they will buy it, if they don't, they won't. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy an iPhone

But this "person" thinks it's a good idea to force people do something for their own good because they just don't know it's better for them. They're just too dumb to figure out what's best for them, so they need someone else to force them. There is nothing in this world more evil than that idea.

To quote Robert Heinlein "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him."

 

[Mac 128]

I'm not your fam.

Apple and their headphone jack has nothing to do with it. Apple is offering a product. If people like it, they will buy it, if they don't, they won't. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy an iPhone

But this "person" thinks it's a good idea to force people do something for their own good because they just don't know it's better for them. They're just too dumb to figure out what's best for them, so they need someone else to force them. There is nothing in this world more evil than that idea.

To quote Robert Heinlein "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him."

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, nor is the OP advocating forcing anyone to do anything.

You don't want to use Lightning, then don't. But comparing the removal of the 3.5mm jack by Apple to the persecution of Jews by Christians is way out of whack.

 

[teknikal90]

I'm not your fam.

Apple and their headphone jack has nothing to do with it. Apple is offering a product. If people like it, they will buy it, if they don't, they won't. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy an iPhone

But this "person" thinks it's a good idea to force people do something for their own good because they just don't know it's better for them. They're just too dumb to figure out what's best for them, so they need someone else to force them. There is nothing in this world more evil than that idea.

To quote Robert Heinlein "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him."

nobody's impressed with your googled copy+paste quotes that mean jack.
also nobody's impressed with your comparison of a removal of a headphone port on a phone to real atrocities to humanity.
that is ignorant at best, dismissive and downright disrespectful at worst.

 

[Rigby]

Actually yes. What I meant by HQ was 24bit/96k.

That would still not consume significantly more room. And of course it would be completely useless unless you're a bat that can hear sounds far into the ultrasonic range.

Of course it's not. If someone uses a poor quality cable and plug to connect their headphones to a 3.5mm jack, then it will be exposed to more noise than a well shielded one.

Sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. You will not pick up audible noise on a 1m earphone cable in any normal environment. It's a low impedance connection.

 

[Mac 128]

That would still not consume significantly more room. And of course it would be completely useless unless you're a bat that can hear sounds far into the ultrasonic range.

I believe that was my initial point.

Sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. You will not pick up audible noise on a 1m earphone cable in any normal environment. It's a low impedance connection.

Thanks for pointing that out. Of course, that doesn't stop it from actually happening in reality. In fact it is quite common around GSM phones. And there's more than just headphone cables plugged into an iPhone. I notice you keep qualifying your responses, however.

 

[lagwagon]

@Mac 128

Something I found on the wireless charging topic that could make my comment of "whatever wireless charging technology they add may not require extra space or the space made by removing the jack" perhaps not quite so ridiculous.

http://bgr.com/2016/02/17/iphone-wireless-charging-energous-game-changer/

"Dubbed WattUp, Energous has built a two-part system that allows practically any type of device to be recharged wirelessly from distances of up to 15 feet. Anything that has integrated a tiny Energous receiver chip will be able to utilize this exciting technology, and the chip is so small that it won’t add any thickness to devices like smartphones, tablets, smartwatches or laptop computers."

 

[imhereareyou]

I was wondering why I saw this on Amazon already.... but this one shows the headphone port

 

[lagwagon]

I was wondering why I saw this on Amazon already.... but this one shows the headphone port

Because they probably put 7 in the title to get more clicks. Images 2 & 3 say "fits iPhone 6 and 6s".

"Releases April 12th" is another giveaway that it's not for a 7. Why would a case for the 7 release 6 months sooner than the actual produce it's supposed to cover?

 

[imhereareyou]

Because they probably put 7 in the title to get more clicks. Images 2 & 3 say "fits iPhone 6 and 6s".

"Releases April 12th" is another giveaway that it's not for a 7. Why would a case for the 7 release 6 months sooner than the actual produce it's supposed to cover?

You might be right! Seems strange to post it if it's not really for the iPhone 7?

 

[Rigby]

I believe that was my initial point.

Thanks for pointing that out. Of course, that doesn't stop it from actually happening in reality. In fact it is quite common around GSM phones. And there's more than just headphone cables plugged into an iPhone. I notice you keep qualifying your responses, however.

And I notice you still keep moving the goalposts. Carry on.

 

[jujufreeze]

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, nor is the OP advocating forcing anyone to do anything.

You don't want to use Lightning, then don't. But comparing the removal of the 3.5mm jack by Apple to the persecution of Jews by Christians is way out of whack.

True. But offering a lightning-only 3.5 mm jackless phone is simply offering an inferior product to competitors. I'm not putting a goofy clunky adapter on my phone either. If Apple continues this trend the 6s+ will be my last iphone.

 

[Mac 128]

@Mac 128

Something I found on the wireless charging topic that could make my comment of "whatever wireless charging technology they add may not require extra space or the space made by removing the jack" perhaps not quite so ridiculous.

http://bgr.com/2016/02/17/iphone-wireless-charging-energous-game-changer/

"Dubbed WattUp, Energous has built a two-part system that allows practically any type of device to be recharged wirelessly from distances of up to 15 feet. Anything that has integrated a tiny Energous receiver chip will be able to utilize this exciting technology, and the chip is so small that it won’t add any thickness to devices like smartphones, tablets, smartwatches or laptop computers."

I do recall reading about that when it first was written up here.

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/05/apple-energous-possible-partnership-speculation/

While it does utilize a tiny chip (which they will have to make room for somewhere), it also utilizes "multiple miniature antennas" which will have to take up some as well, whether the chip adds thickness or not. So something will have to go to accommodate them. Could that something be the headphone jack. Sure. And I'd be happy to see it go for this kind of truly wireless charging. The problem here is that they may still be adding a speaker in place of the headphone jack, with this WattUp technology taking little extra space. And I still doubt there's a scenario where the headphone jack contributes to some kind of interference, yet the speakers themselves don't.

In order to justify the removal of the headphone jack to be replaced by speakers, I'd be much more open to the Apple patent using speaker coils to serve as inductive chargers. In fact, the recent leak about Apple's Smart connectors being on the back of the iPhone 7 suggest a reason to remove the headphone jack, if some component must reside there. Unfortunately, the competition can do inductive charging, with both a speaker and headphone jack, though I've not done an analysis of the feature per feature inclusion to see what else, if anything the competition may be omitting compared to the iPhone.

I find the inclusion of a second speaker troubling in the removal of the headphone jack, and so far, I'm not hearing a reasonable justification for its removal and adding a speaker. Not that there isn't one coming, just that it's not here at the moment.
[doublepost=1458086063][/doublepost]

True. But offering a lightning-only 3.5 mm jackless phone is simply offering an inferior product to competitors. I'm not putting a goofy clunky adapter on my phone either. If Apple continues this trend the 6s+ will be my last iphone.

Not if Apple has a legitimate reason to remove the jack in order to improve, or add features, a challenge which the competition then is also facing. So what will you do if that's the case, and a year from now the competition's flagship phones also drop the headphone jack?

 

[lagwagon]

I do recall reading about that when it first was written up here.

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/05/apple-energous-possible-partnership-speculation/

While it does utilize a tiny chip (which they will have to make room for somewhere), it also utilizes "multiple miniature antennas" which will have to take up some as well, whether the chip adds thickness or not. So something will have to go to accommodate them. Could that something be the headphone jack. Sure. And I'd be happy to see it go for this kind of truly wireless charging. The problem here is that they may still be adding a speaker in place of the headphone jack, with this WattUp technology taking little extra space. And I still doubt there's a scenario where the headphone jack contributes to some kind of interference, yet the speakers themselves don't.

In order to justify the removal of the headphone jack to be replaced by speakers, I'd be much more open to the Apple patent using speaker coils to serve as inductive chargers. In fact, the recent leak about Apple's Smart connectors being on the back of the iPhone 7 suggest a reason to remove the headphone jack, if some component must reside there. Unfortunately, the competition can do inductive charging, with both a speaker and headphone jack, though I've not done an analysis of the feature per feature inclusion to see what else, if anything the competition may be omitting compared to the iPhone.

I find the inclusion of a second speaker troubling in the removal of the headphone jack, and so far, I'm not hearing a reasonable justification for its removal and adding a speaker. Not that there isn't one coming, just that it's not here at the moment.
[doublepost=1458086063][/doublepost]

Not if Apple has a legitimate reason to remove the jack in order to improve, or add features, a challenge which the competition then is also facing. So what will you do if that's the case, and a year from now the competition's flagship phones also drop the headphone jack?

I believe based on the two articles (one I linked and you linked) the only thing that goes on the actual device is the tiny chip (which has the tiny antennas in the chip). In the article you linked they even show how small the chip is compared to a penny. They could easily add that without taking a single mm of the space that the jack fills up. Since the technology uses RF, it at the very least also makes my "interference" comments also not quite so ludicrous either and perhaps plausible.

Others have induction charging while keeping everything. But the major difference is theirs can't go through metal. They need glass or plastic backs to work. Apple has been working on charging to pass through metal, which could potentially cause issues not present in ordinary inductive we see today.

I still don't think adding a speaker requires any justification for removing the jack. (If something isn't the reason then why would it need to be justified as the reason?) Because of the speaker isn't the reason why it's removed, it would be just something they add to reclaim the space the jack once took. It would be removed because their charging technology played a major factor in it or they just want to push people towards moving away from 100 year old tech and promote the possible soon to be released hi res iTunes/Apple Music audio on Lightning or they just deem it redundant to have two audio ports.

 

[Mac 128]

I believe based on the two articles (one I linked and you linked) the only thing that goes on the actual device is the tiny chip (which has the tiny antennas in the chip). In the article you linked they even show how small the chip is compared to a penny. They could easily add that without taking a single mm of the space that the jack fills up. Since the technology uses RF, it at the very least also makes my "interference" comments also not quite so ludicrous either and perhaps plausible.

Others have induction charging while keeping everything. But the major difference is theirs can't go through metal. They need glass or plastic backs to work. Apple has been working on charging to pass through metal, which could potentially cause issues not present in ordinary inductive we see today.

I still don't think adding a speaker requires any justification for removing the jack. (If something isn't the reason then why would it need to be justified as the reason?) Because of the speaker isn't the reason why it's removed, it would be just something they add to reclaim the space the jack once took. It would be removed because their charging technology played a major factor in it or they just want to push people towards moving away from 100 year old tech and promote the possible soon to be released hi res iTunes/Apple Music audio on Lightning or they just deem it redundant to have two audio ports.

Well again, if the wireless charging doesn't take up any space, and the headphone jack doesn't have to be removed to accommodate it, then adding a 2nd speaker is a choice to replace the headphone jack unless another reason ultimately surfaces. And even then, they've chosen to include a 2nd speaker in place of the headphone jack.

You keep asserting that the new charging technology, which may or may not take any additional space based on what you think you know at present, somehow interferes with the headphone jack or vice versa, and that's complete nonsense. Anything that causes the headphone jack to be removed is also going to affect the speakers and other analogue audio components as well.

Pushing people away from "100 year old" technology is NOT an acceptable reason to remove the jack. Especially when the competition is able to include it, along with speakers and inductive charging.

And further to your initial speculation that the iPhone 7 might not have the wireless charging technology implemented until the 7s, then there is absolutely no reason remove the jack until it's necessary. All it does is take away something many people use and give them nothing in return. That would be a public relations nightmare. So if what you theorize is true, then wireless charging will be introduced with the 7.

So rather than take up anymore bandwidth debating this fantasy back and forth, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Unless you can provide some rational basis for explaining why this new wireless charging technology affects one analogue audio component but no other ones on the phone, then if true and this rumor pans out, Apple has simply chosen to replace the 3.5mm jack with a 2nd speaker (presumably to push their Lightning agenda), and that simply is not acceptable for me, even if I don't care whether the 3.5mm jack stays or goes.

 

[DevNull0]

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, nor is the OP advocating forcing anyone to do anything.

You don't want to use Lightning, then don't. But comparing the removal of the 3.5mm jack by Apple to the persecution of Jews by Christians is way out of whack.

Why don't you read what you're replying to? I said nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, I said Apple is merely offering products for sale and people are free to buy it or not.

What I said is the poster I was replying to thinks Apple should force people to do something for their own good.

 

[lagwagon]

Well again, if the wireless charging doesn't take up any space, and the headphone jack doesn't have to be removed to accommodate it, then adding a 2nd speaker is a choice to replace the headphone jack unless another reason ultimately surfaces. And even then, they've chosen to include a 2nd speaker in place of the headphone jack.

You keep asserting that the new charging technology, which may or may not take any additional space based on what you think you know at present, somehow interferes with the headphone jack or vice versa, and that's complete nonsense. Anything that causes the headphone jack to be removed is also going to affect the speakers and other analogue audio components as well.

Pushing people away from "100 year old" technology is NOT an acceptable reason to remove the jack. Especially when the competition is able to include it, along with speakers and inductive charging.

And further to your initial speculation that the iPhone 7 might not have the wireless charging technology implemented until the 7s, then there is absolutely no reason remove the jack until it's necessary. All it does is take away something many people use and give them nothing in return. That would be a public relations nightmare. So if what you theorize is true, then wireless charging will be introduced with the 7.

So rather than take up anymore bandwidth debating this fantasy back and forth, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Unless you can provide some rational basis for explaining why this new wireless charging technology affects one analogue audio component but no other ones on the phone, then if true and this rumor pans out, Apple has simply chosen to replace the 3.5mm jack with a 2nd speaker (presumably to push their Lightning agenda), and that simply is not acceptable for me, even if I don't care whether the 3.5mm jack stays or goes.

I really don't understand how you can't understand that if a second speaker fills the spot of something removed, and that thing was removed for OTHER reasons. It doesn't make the speaker the reason and doesn't need to be justified for being added against the something removed. The removed thing was getting remove regardless of the speaker added or not. It doesn't "replace" a headphone jack if that headphone jack was already being removed for other reasons. It replaces just the space after it's been removed and ONLY the space the jack took, not the jack itself. Pretty simple.

It's already been mentioned in a couple articles that it doesn't take hardly any space to add the tiny chip. That's fact. Not wild guessing or assumptions. The chip could probably be added to any past iPhone without changing a thing, that's how small it is.

As far as "interference" or "crosstalk". It really doesn't matter if there is some on the tiny built in speakers because they are mostly used for notification sounds, putting someone on speaker phone, a quick YouTube video and sometimes music. Who cares if there is a little interference in those situations, because no one expects superb audio from built in speakers to begin with or out of those situations. Headphones are right over your ears or in your ears. You hear any little "defect", making any kind of interference WAY more noticeable. People expect good quality while using headphones.

Wait. Earlier you agreed that a reason could be is because they are moving away from 3.5mm in favour of digital and agreed on the statement that people are creatures of habit and wouldn't use Lightning when given the choice to continue to use what they know. And now disagreeing on something you agreed to? And it's suddenly not acceptable again? This makes you confusing as hell. You argue with people against the removal of the jack, you argue with people pro removing the jack and you argue against yourself.

Again. Two year designs. Removing a jack and adding a speaker is a major design change. Not only to the inside but also to the outside. More noticeably the outside, which is something they don't do mid design cycle (adding 0.2mm last year or slightly different looking home button in the 5s are not the same as changing the actual design.) Not sure why that had to explained for the 100th time.

 

[rctlr]

I'm an audiophile...
You'll NEVER catch me on bt phones; however, I plan on taking my included lightning/3.5 adapter, placing it on the end of my Sennheiser Momentum on-ears (my current "iPhone cans"), & forgetting all about it whilst enjoying my music and my life!!!
Unsure why others are choosing misery and anger and boycotting, etc instead...

I have the same headphones, and I've always loved Sennheiser. They do a Bluetooth version of the Momentums, and according to high end reviews, they perform just as the wired ones do.

 

[Tycho24]

I have the same headphones, and I've always loved Sennheiser. They do a Bluetooth version of the Momentums, and according to high end reviews, they perform just as the wired ones do.

I've been looking at the Urbanite XL Senns, if I do decide to bite! A bit bulky... & the standard bt disadvantages of some small audio degradation & needing to be charged- other than that; they look nice!

 

[Mac 128]

Why don't you read what you're replying to? I said nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, I said Apple is merely offering products for sale and people are free to buy it or not.

What I said is the poster I was replying to thinks Apple should force people to do something for their own good.

Why don't you read what you're replying to. The OP NEVER said anything about forcing people to do something for their own good. That's libel.
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I really don't understand how you can't understand that if a second speaker fills the spot of something removed, and that thing was removed for OTHER reasons. It doesn't make the speaker the reason and doesn't need to be justified for being added against the something removed. The removed thing was getting remove regardless of the speaker added or not. It doesn't "replace" a headphone jack if that headphone jack was already being removed for other reasons. It replaces just the space after it's been removed and ONLY the space the jack took, not the jack itself. Pretty simple.

I understand this just fine. It's you who are engaging in wild speculation as to the reason the headphone jack has to be removed, without any reasonable support for your hypothetical.

It's already been mentioned in a couple articles that it doesn't take hardly any space to add the tiny chip. That's fact. Not wild guessing or assumptions. The chip could probably be added to any past iPhone without changing a thing, that's how small it is.

You keep using wiggle words. Show me the data specs. So far all I have are vague articles that parrot marketing hype without going into detail about what actually is involved. And it's on this you are basing your entire argument ... well a lot of it.

As far as "interference" or "crosstalk". It really doesn't matter if there is some on the tiny built in speakers because they are mostly used for notification sounds, putting someone on speaker phone, a quick YouTube video and sometimes music. Who cares if there is a little interference in those situations, because no one expects superb audio from built in speakers to begin with or out of those situations. Headphones are right over your ears or in your ears. You hear any little "defect", making any kind of interference WAY more noticeable. People expect good quality while using headphones.

The most ridiculous thing you've stated to date. Apple would never release a product with such a defect.

Wait. Earlier you agreed that a reason could be is because they are moving away from 3.5mm in favour of digital and agreed on the statement that people are creatures of habit and wouldn't use Lightning when given the choice to continue to use what they know. And now disagreeing on something you agreed to? And it's suddenly not acceptable again? This makes you confusing as hell. You argue with people against the removal of the jack, you argue with people pro removing the jack and you argue against yourself.

No I'm not. You infer what suits you. I've been consistent on my views. I'm pro removing the jack to motivate people toward a new paradigm, but I am not in favor of removing it to add non-essential technology. And the point you keep missing is that Apple cannot remove something the competition can provide, especially something as widely used as the 3.5mm jack without replacing it with something essential. A second speaker is non-essential technology, and so far you have not provided a reason for this new wireless charging technology to require the removal of one analogue audio component but not the many others on the iPhone -- other than your warped rationale that static on the built-in speakers, and mic is somehow acceptable to anybody.

Again. Two year designs. Removing a jack and adding a speaker is a major design change. Not only to the inside but also to the outside. More noticeably the outside, which is something they don't do mid design cycle (adding 0.2mm last year or slightly different looking home button in the 5s are not the same as changing the actual design.) Not sure why that had to explained for the 100th time.

Removing a jack and adding a speaker in a pre-existing space is not a major design change no matter what you assert. The 6s added a huge haptic engine internally! The iPhone 4 went through three MAJOR external and internal design changes involving antennas and sim cards. So you're just flat wrong, yet you don't seem to be able to understand why.

So like I said, it's best we just part ways at this point.