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Physical keyboard FTL.

Well, I too prefer a virtual keyboard, but either one can be done well or badly. If the keyboard on the Pre is really that bad, it will be a big blow. You just can't have your primary input method be hard to use and still have people really enjoy using the device for prolonged periods.

As noted in the comments section of his site, this isn't final hardware. This wasn't given to him by Palm nor Sprint. I wouldn't take this review too seriously. Hopefully someone gets the finished model soon because CNET got to try one out and says the keyboard is great.

The thing goes on sale in a few days; we're not talking about beta hardware here. I could believe the thing about the screen catching as it slides won't be on the finished product, but you're dreaming if you think they're putting on a redesigned keyboard this close to release.

Overall, this was a good, balanced review. Sounds like the Pre has some highs and some lows (like all smartphones) but will overall be a worthy player in the high-end market. It does notsound like it will be the jesus-phone some people were predicting (nor is the iphone or anything else, before anyone gets all worked up).
 
Thats what pressure and quick time release does to product. Palm is loosing grip and decided to go ahead with unpolished device. Thats recipe for disaster. How long Apple was working on iPhone? Thats proper timeframe my dear Palm!!!

Anyway what week that was for announcements!!!:eek: More for iPhone design then Zune and now Palm. Seems none of them wants to be left behind.
:rolleyes:
 
I for one am impressed with all of your iphone typing skills. My last two phones had physical keyboards (sidekick 2 and samsung 740 flip thing) and I was able to type way faster than I can on the iphone. The virtual keyboard is nowhere near capable of keeping up with my finger taps. I am really hoping it gets better on 3.0. Because texting and writing emails is too damn slow right now.

I still agree the virtual keyboard is the future. But I think the tech is far from removing my want of a physical keyboard on my phone.
 
Hehe oh please. Every new mini keypad takes a few days to get used to if not longer. Lame.
 
Keyboard fail! READ THE REVIEWS!

You all should check out the reviews from people that got this thing early!

Like on bestbuy.com

Everyone that ACTUALLY HAS ONE seems to be extremely disappointed with the keyboard. Well, I guess if your going to make the switch just for the keyboard, your screwed! :)
 
The keys are way too small! My friend got a couple Palm Pre's at their Sprint store today, and I got to look at it and touch it. I love the look of it. I'm sure a lot of Sprint customers are going to be really happy w/ it. I'll definitely get it if it were on AT&T.
 
The problem with this is that everyone is comparing the Pre - a supposed "next-gen" phone, to the current iPhone 3G that's been on the market for a year. I don't see how the Pre can be that much better than a year-old iPhone.

We need to see the new iPhone before we can make a fair comparison.
 
Palm may have given developers some hooks into their system, but Javascript/HTML is hardly a replacement for a real development environment.

AFAIK it's more like an XML based language with an interpreter. And in XML you can define anything, it really hasn't much too do with HTML/JS.
 
I thought that the keyboard looked pretty cramped. One good thing about the soft-keyboard is that you can use it in portrait or landscape mode (with the 3.0 software).

Another HUGE benefit is the ability to use any language you want, including Asian languages like Chinese and Japanese, with no change to the hardware.
 
AFAIK it's more like an XML based language with an interpreter. And in XML you can define anything, it really hasn't much too do with HTML/JS.

Of course, but anyone who had any programming experience would know that complex XML gets slow to parse, and use much more RAM.

It is like the interpreted language vs compiled language debate in development - except XML is worse than interpreted languages like Java or .NET.
 
The review gave the phone a mediocre feeling at best. Definitely not an "iPhone Killer" so whatev.
 
I consider this as a huge fail on palm side. They announced the Pre 5 months ago. And even after 5 months they are launching with just 200k(acc to some reports. It might be wrong though). Even with all the hype they were able to generate for pre this is all they could manage? Why didn't they create a ton of of them for launch. I know palm(and the economy in general) isn't in the best of financial health but still i just dont understand why couldn't they find some investors after all this *iPhone killer* hype? I think palm itself doesn't believe they have a chance at giving iPhone some real competetion. App store is already huge and definitely one of the biggest reason behind iPhones continued success. If pre doesn't have a huge user base very soon then it'll prove to be very hard to shift the developer's attention away from iPhone. They needed a huge launch to be any where close to being an iPhone competetion. But it doesn't look like they are headed in the right direction for now. June 6 is just a week away now. Let's see if these miniscule launch rumor is true or not.
 
Oh, come on! That's bordering on apologist drivel. Palm may have given developers some hooks into their system, but Javascript/HTML is hardly a replacement for a real development environment. Beyond all the obvious issues, it's not efficient or fast enough for anything but the most casual of uses. And until someone ports Quake or Monkeyball over to the Pre using HTML and Javascript, I'll remain unconvinced.

Javascript's speed is a function of the browser. Witness the significant increases in speeds in the latest version of Safari(WebKIT) and every other browser that is under significant development for a large number of users.
One upside for javascript is that the run time environments for it has been so bad that it is relatively easy to get improvements by just leveraging sensible dynamic language implementation strategies.

No language is most appropriate for all jobs, but it is a phreakin phone. Don't have to run every kind of app possible on a phone. Not sure when smartphones primarily had to be competitors to Gameboys and PSPs to have a competitive offering. Seems much more likely that Pre would attempt to draw the folks who primarily want a phone+PDA rather than those who want a phone+Gameboy.


There is also an acknowledged development effort for putting mobile Flash on webOS also. ( http://www.precentral.net/webos-gaming-flash-palms-secret-weapon) .
Maybe that will be one of apple's "one more thing" at WWDC for the iPhoneOS .... or maybe it will continue to be remain flashless.




Anyway, I agree completely with the OP. Seems weird to me too that there was such a relentless outcry about the iPhone having web-based development only, and yet, not a peep out of those same folks when Palm does it.

Is it really the same folks or a different set with a similar argument?


One aspect that folks keep overlooking that webOS "web apps" run without the web. Apple's appeal for developers to run their apps remotely over the network in the initial stages was protested in part because if drop out of network connection you loose all your apps.

Google Docs give you a working Word/Excel clone. To poo-poo that you can't get "real applications" out of Ajax apps is a huge stretch. Likewise can't just take top 10 off of App Store and say can't do blah so doomed. Frankly, 3 months from not most of those top 10 won't be there anymore. Similarly that would be like someone taking the top 10 Gameboy games at the time of iPhone introduction and saying it was doomed because there was no equivalents.




And as a programmer and Web developer myself, I have to wonder about the wisdom of retrofitting local storage and device access on to a language not originally designed with local system security in mind. Could be a Pandora's Box that Palm is opening up here.

As much as several of those are read only ( orientation, gps , etc.) hardly any less secure than Ajax web aps are now. Flash apps have access to mic and camera now. Similarly java apps have access to native resources through API calls.

If they were pushing an extended javascript language perhaps. But this seems to be providing function call interfaces to get and some cases push info. The storage could look like regular web store retrieve. file://localhost/foo/bar.txt isn't all that differnt from http://localhost/foo/bar.txt

Some of the security problems are already there with javascript in browsers.

If folks pushed code fragments through that would be another thing. As long it is just data and the API is purely in Palm's hands where is the breach?


Most of this brouhaha over Pre seems to be people trying to rationalize there purchase of an iPhone over some other alternative.
 
AFAIK it's more like an XML based language with an interpreter. And in XML you can define anything, it really hasn't much too do with HTML/JS.

Semantics. I'll reiterate what inkswamp said, even XML is no substitute for a full fledged application development language and environment. I'm aware the lines are becoming more blurred with each passing year. But they are still not equivalent.
 
nothing can be wrong with Palm Pre. I mean its the Palm Pre....



in all seriousness, this will get good reviews and bad reviews. It will sell alot of units but i dont think it will be some blockbuster phone grabbing 20% marketshare.
 
Unrelated ... but I played around with a G2 yesterday and I found the same problem with the keyboard ... a serious pain in the ass to use compared to the iPhone. It worked very poorly, you had to be very accurate on touches and it frequently misspelled things without doing the thing the iPhone does where it tries to figure out what you typed.

But seriously, Palm is going to fail big time on this phone. Its Palm after all, the company who brought you the very trashy Treo phones. This is their last ditch attempt that they are betting the farm on.
 
Semantics. I'll reiterate what inkswamp said, even XML is no substitute for a full fledged application development language and environment.

That's nonsense. You can define a complete programming language using the XML standard without any problems at all.
 
Well it's all about options. I for one am sick and tired of AT&T bending me over for subpar service. I was never into Blackberrys and liked my Treo's in the past because of it's OSX like interface when compared to WinMobi phones.

I hate to leave my iPhone behind because I know it's the superior device. However, here in AZ AT&T sucks and Sprints plans are considerably cheaper. (unlimited everything $80 after discount)

I hope the Pre is 70% of the iPhone. I will be back when they get more sensible about plans or if/when new carriers are introduced
 
Hm. I read the entire review and it sounds pretty good.

It does sound a little unpolished, but I'm not sure how close to a release model the one they had was. They don't want too many bugs in it on day one.

Also, I'm not sure "pretty good" is going to do it. They've got to complete against iPhone 3, Blackberries, etc. For my part, I didn't see anything there that would make me want to choose it over just an iPhone 2.

And the review talked about how great the OS is. But I can't tell from the review what they meant by that? The universal search is the one thing I saw. Other than that, all screen shots all look pretty similar to the iPhone. Sounds like it's very responsive, though. Maybe that's what they mean?
 
No real surprise. Physical keyboards have ALWAYS been stupid on small handheld devices. Nothing has changed in regards to the size of people's fingers to change that.

It boggles my mind why companies keep putting this on devices when they are such a waste of space. I could understand if you were making a phone for large mice or something, but for human beings, it makes little sense. Especially given the fact that proven superior alternatives exist now.

Please spare me the thought of tactile feedback and the rest. That is nonsense. We learn to type on physical keyboards the same way we learn on software keyboards and that is via location memorization.
 
review?

That was a pretty lame excuse for a 'review' ...

maybe 'first look' or something. Nothing in there about email etc.

Not that I was likely to buy one anyway - iphone 3g on tmo continues to work quite well...
 
I think Palm should have made the keyboard like the Pearl's, then it would have been perfect. Oh well, I'm not looking for a new phone for a year or two.
 
Palm's WebOS is *nothing* like the original iPhone Web Apps. Just because apps on the pre are written using Javascript/HTML5/CSS doesn't mean they are simply web apps. Local storage, device access (calendar, phonebook, etc), pixel level painting and 3D rendering in HTML5, as well as native installation and offline access means apps on WebOS will be much different than standard iPhone web apps.

Pre's app and game potential does outshine iPhone OS 1.0's app and game potential.

I'm not so sure about the Pre vs. iPhone OS 2.0 and 3.0's app and game potential :eek:

EDIT: Just saw a new photo--those keys ARE small! The good thing about a virtual keyboard: you're SUPPOSED to hit more than one key at a time. The iPhone picks the key in the middle of your press. Which means the iPhone keys are magically even bigger than they look. (Plus the hit-areas for iPhone keys enlarge to favor actual words, while shrinking the hit areas for "useless" letters that don't fit the letters before them. Clever. All the even BEFORE the auto-correction kicks in.)

And I'm still glad for whatever success (and competition) it achieves.
 
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