C’mon this is the country that has no idea of what the Hell to do at the end of March next year ;-)
Out of interest, do you attach your single lead EKG to the patient's wrist? And is the use of a single lead influenced by being in an emergency resuscitation scenario?
It's nothing to do with being paternalistic, it's about money. The problem is, if it started to give a large number of false readings, then it could potentially overwhelm the already overstretched national health service, which is publicly funded. They want to make damn sure a device isn't going to end up extending waiting lists and costing a fortune in unneccesary testing.It is amazing that the UK government has to treat its citizens like babies who can't be trusted to make decisions for themselves. How about giving people the freedom to decide they want to use it or not? Sure, if they need to have a ton of disclaimers, go ahead.
It isn't as if this is a defibrillator that is going to try and shock your heart back into rhythm, it is another tool that could potentially save someone's life by recording an ECG/EKG to show to their doctor later. It isn't perfect no doubt since it is an early version, but give people the freedom to choose for themselves whether to use it. I know plenty of people who are competent enough to understand the limitations.
Talk about heavy-handed, paternalistic interference in people's lives.
And has webMD been blocked?It's nothing to do with being paternalistic, it's about money. The problem is, if it started to give a large number of false readings, then it could potentially overwhelm the already overstretched national health service, which is publicly funded. They want to make damn sure a device isn't going to end up extending waiting lists and costing a fortune in unneccesary testing.
The FDA warns that Apple's ECG app is not designed to replace traditional methods of diagnosis or treatment and is intended for informational use only. The Series 4 is the first ECG product being offered over the counter directly to consumers.
Article Link: ECG Feature on Apple Watch Could Take Years to Be Approved in the United Kingdom
When it’s works in the UK, I’ll upgrade from my Nike Series 2.
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Well that's the one useful feature I was tempted to buy the watch for, that I cant actually even use.
Maybe Apple will cut the price in the UK as a gesture of goodwill to us missing out on this feature....
This is a good thing. I am surprised the FDA allows it, even with the warning. People need to understand the limitations of the device; their lives literally may depend on it.
A 10% failure rate straight away (before you even consider false positives/negatives) seems wildly inaccurate as a medical device to me.
Those 10 percent are not inaccurate - it doesn’t give any reading in those cases. Saying “I can’t do this” when you can’t is not inaccurate.
In any case, even if you score that against the watch, that’s not “wildly” inaccurate. I expected you to provide a study showing it was only barely correlated or something.
Out of interest, do you attach your single lead EKG to the patient's wrist? And is the use of a single lead influenced by being in an emergency resuscitation scenario?
I have used a just a limb lead before as a tool just to assist in confirming ROSC. Yes the leads goes right on the patients wrist. Normally our limb leads go on wrists and ankles though they can go a little more central on the extremities (by each hip bone and on each shoulder) and still provide a fine read.
Maybe being dim here - but could they not just have massive disclaimers saying the readings aren't regulated/approved and are advisory only? See a doctor etc.
Well you aren't going to self-treat a cardiac arrythmia, so I'd hope you'd see a doctor anyway.Maybe being dim here - but could they not just have massive disclaimers saying the readings aren't regulated/approved and are advisory only? See a doctor etc.
No, in UK (and in the EU) there are regulations to follow for a good reason. Consumer (patient) is more important than business.
Warning people won't keep them from overloading the emergency services and healthcare system with false positive situations. And that's why this device needs proper testing, so that its readings are interpreted correctly...
The accuracy of the actual device under different conditions, on different watches (product consistency) over time.What trials? It's and EKG that logs data. The trials and data is already there.
NHS just gave me check up schedule 3 months for a test because I am having pain. My doc advises me to take pain medication till then. Wondering what will happen to my kidney if i follow them. People are nice in NHS. But it is run by some pretty incompetent government people who controls the funding and general direction.No surprise there NHS do not want someone running in for free checkups due to false alarms etc
Doesn't that just mean looking for the existence of a heartbeat? Apple are making far greater claims than just that.
Is this feature really the only reason you can see to upgrade to a Series 4?
Don't hold your breath
I really don't understand posts like this. People aren't going to use the ECG feature of the Apple Watch in lieu of going to the doctor. The entire point of it is that we do not go to the doctor every day. Most people don't even go once per year. The importance of this device is that, if needed, it will trigger people to make that appointment with their doctor or head to the emergency room and receive treatment that they otherwise wouldn't have received. It isn't about this being less accurate than what is available at a hospital. It is about it being way more accurate than nothing at all.
I was going to respond until I read your response. You hit the nail on the head. I'm not sure the phrase "wildly inaccurate" means what Khedron thinks it means (Princess Bride reference).
Out of interest, do you go to the doctor's office every day to have an ECG done?
Once per week?
Once per month?
Every six months?
Once a year?
The Apple Watch Series 4 will be able to provide you information for the 300+ days per year when you are not in a doctor's office getting the 12-lead ECG. Furthermore, most people do not even have an ECG test during their annual doctor's visit. The problem is that it is often too late when people realize they need these tests. Have you never seen the ads that talk about the warning signs for heart attack and stroke? The Apple Watch is no less accurate than watching for those signs. The difference is, people are more likely to check on themselves with this cool piece of technology.
Would you rather have an inaccurate reading that sent you to the doctor to find out you are okay or no reading for the time when you were having an actual issue? That is what you are advocating for by poopoo-ing the Apple Watch. Stop trying to compare it to the 12-lead ECG. Compare it to what is being used now, nothing.
The years of regulatory testing are in place precisely to protect people that believe tweets hold any value or legitimacy.This timeline is absurdly long. When I asked Health Canada on twitter they said that for a device like that they could approve an application very quickly, as quickly as 15 days. No reason why it should take years in UK.
Ha, ha, ha ... laughing so hard, I think I need to have an ECG made.Maybe Apple will cut the price in the UK as a gesture of goodwill to us missing out on this feature....
And for those who have an avoidable heart attack because their gadget said they were OK and so they didn't visit a doctor?I feel sorry for all the future heart attack victims who will be wearing an Apple Watch series 4 with that feature still disabled.
If they're asymptomatic they wouldn't go anyways. If they do have chest pain and don't go, then thats darwinism.And for those who have an avoidable heart attack because their gadget said they were OK and so they didn't visit a doctor?
Earlier this month, Apple unveiled the Apple Watch Series 4 with a new electrocardiogram (ECG) feature that measures the electrical activity of your heartbeat, providing you with a heart rhythm classification that can be shared with your doctor. The feature isn't out yet, but it will be limited to Series 4 models in the United States later in 2018.
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Today, 9to5Mac shared a potential time window for the launch of the ECG feature in the United Kingdom. The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) explains that the process starts by examining Apple's documentation surrounding the ECG feature and performing an audit of the quality assurance system.
While this step doesn't appear to be lengthy, the proceeding steps could make the process longer. MHRA says it would require Apple to perform a new clinical investigation to judge the effectiveness of the ECG on Apple Watch, but Apple would likely not be able to use any of the data from the studies it's already completed because MHRA requires companies to notify the regulator in advance of a study.
Once the study is submitted, MHRA has 60 days to approve it (which may become longer if the regulators have further inquiries for Apple), and then Apple can begin the study. These last few steps are what the MHRA say "could potentially add years" onto the debut of the ECG in the UK.
Despite the potential for years-long approval, Apple may find ways to expedite this process. While the United Kingdom remains part of the European Union, it's possible that Apple could receive approval from a broader regulatory body and sidestep the MHRA's processes.
In the United States, Apple has obtained de novo FDA clearance for the ECG feature in the Apple Watch Series 4 and the feature that can send a notification if an abnormal heart rate has been detected. However, FDA clearance is not the same as FDA approval and the FDA does not recommend that the ECG feature be used by those under 22 or those who have already been diagnosed with atrial fibrillation.
The FDA warns that Apple's ECG app is not designed to replace traditional methods of diagnosis or treatment and is intended for informational use only. The Series 4 is the first ECG product being offered over the counter directly to consumers.
Elsewhere, Apple has said it is working with Health Canada to bring the ECG functionality to the Canadian market, although no timeline has been specified.
Article Link: ECG Feature on Apple Watch Could Take Years to Be Approved in the United Kingdom
This timeline is absurdly long. When I asked Health Canada on twitter they said that for a device like that they could approve an application very quickly, as quickly as 15 days. No reason why it should take years in UK.