Edge iPhone vs Nokia N95

[garybUK]

I have a Nokia N95 8gb + a 8gb iPhone

This is one of those chicken / egg arguments.

All in all i'd say i prefer my Nokia.

1) I know i will get slated, but its a european manufacturer so a lot of the features aren't USA only (ringtones anyone?)

2) GPS Feature on the Nokia has some getting used to, but it's brilliant when u get it working.

iPhone your dependent upon signal etc.

3) Wifi on the iPhone is absolutely useless out and about unless your one of the mororns who spends all their life in Starbucks. The Cloud sucks!!!! my work use eneterprise cisco wifi so i can't even use it there. O2 lied about the Edge roll out. I don't get it at work, the hotel, home or the office in london. Bloody useless!

4) iPod is much better on the iPhone (obviously) than the Nokia, but at the end of the day, you can listen to music and it's easy to navigate the Nokia.

5) I can use my Nokia as a high-speed modem (3g) on my laptop.

6) Proper!!! Bluetooth, i can send pics taken with the 5mp camera to other people via Bluetooth or MMS and i can pair it to my laptop.

7) Symbian is the no.1 Smartphone platform. it's brilliant, no lockups, nothing... runs pretty smooth for me and there's loads of 3rd party apps.

8) Touch screen is a novelty, there's nothing like real buttons for when you need to text without constantly looking at the screen or pulling it close to you because the onscreen buttons are too small.... don't even get me started when in a bumpy car!!

I do like my iphone but it's a gimmick..... People think Apple are the be-all-and-end-all for mobile phones...... Nokia are hugely more sucessful in mobile phones.

I'll keep both!

 

[marksman]

8) Touch screen is a novelty, there's nothing like real buttons for when you need to text without constantly looking at the screen or pulling it close to you because the onscreen buttons are too small.... don't even get me started when in a bumpy car!!

LOL. I bet you wish you could have a pet dinosaur too. Little tiny keyboards that take up huge amounts of relative space are a thing of the past. The iPhone keyboard works amazingly well and the benefits you get from it (less weight, smaller unit, much larger screen) or more than worth it.

I actually laugh anytime I see someone thumbing a little bitty keyboard that a real mouse would have trouble navigating.

 

[0098386]

3) Wifi on the iPhone is absolutely useless out and about unless your one of the mororns who spends all their life in Starbucks. The Cloud sucks!!!! my work use eneterprise cisco wifi so i can't even use it there. O2 lied about the Edge roll out. I don't get it at work, the hotel, home or the office in london. Bloody useless!

Really? I've played with an iPod Touch with a Cloud subscription. All my local pubs, library and I even hear that our town hall are getting The Cloud. It ran extremely well.

o2 also have a really good signal up here. Even though its rural every network barring Orange gets a really high signal and that is echoed on EDGE speed.

As with any phone on any network it all depends on location.

 

[BongoBanger]

I actually laugh anytime I see someone thumbing a little bitty keyboard that a real mouse would have trouble navigating.

I'm a 6'4" 230lb rugby player with hands like shovels and have no problem using the keyboard because I have normal hand eye co-ordination. If you're hamfisted and can't then that's your problem, it doesn't mean they system is inherently faulty.

People use what they prefer and some people prefer tactile feedback. Deal with it.

 

[benmrii]

LOL. I bet you wish you could have a pet dinosaur too. Little tiny keyboards that take up huge amounts of relative space are a thing of the past. The iPhone keyboard works amazingly well and the benefits you get from it (less weight, smaller unit, much larger screen) or more than worth it.

I actually laugh anytime I see someone thumbing a little bitty keyboard that a real mouse would have trouble navigating.

All due respect, but I'm guessing you never had a full keyboard smart phone prior to the iPhone. No matter how great it is to have the added screen space for the amazing interface, not to mention the 'pretty' factor, it is incredibly less effective than a physical keypad.

Is it better than texting with a 12 button 2/ABC 3/DEF etc. keypad? Absolutely. But almost across the board, regardless of the level of Apple fanboi-ism (admittedly, myself included), the keyboard is... not a disappointment, but definitely not near as fast or useable as a physical keypad.

Note the several posts on this forum asking about a pull out keyboard addition or the possible hack to allow the iPhone to interface with a bluetooth keyboard for further evidence.

 

[BergerFan]

I love the Safari keyboard when in landscape mode. Apple really need to implement this into any app that uses the keyboard.

 

[MACsimus19]

the iphone just looks better doing it.

I'm actually going to disagree with you about the iphone just looking better doing it.

While I do think the iPhone looks better from an interface perspective, it's so much more than just the looks that make the difference. There are a ton of phones out there that have similar feature sets or larger feature sets that I would never even consider using again.

Take the Blackjack 2 for example, which a lot of people love. You can "do" almost anything the iPhone can do on a BJ 2 and I think the ignorant person would say the iphone just looks better. Its not just about looks people. Maybe im an interface junkie but looks translate into incredibly salient things like: ease of use, more advanced multitasking/service integration, user enjoyment, etc. While it may not "do" all an N95 does, the things it does are executed in a far superior manner... so much so that I will never use any other phone.

How many tech items do you interface with (non-apple ) that bring a tangible sense of joy/satisfaction at the end of the day. I personally can't think of many (other than my Harmony One remote-but that might be due to the fact that its controlling some fun toys including an Apple TV).

The keyboard issue is personal preference. I can understand that argument, my fiance has a hard time typing with nails so I reluctantly bought her a BJ 2.

I use the iPhone keyboard with greater speed and accuracy than any other keyboard i've ever used. I currently own a work-issued 8830 (with previous Treo 650, Blackjack 1 & Moto Q ownership) and can type messages out faster with fewer errors on the iPhone.

With 2.0 coming shortly, I can't even imagine how much more satisfying the user experience will be. This is a pretty-well thought out OS here, not some Series 60 or Windows Mobile joke.

Other manufactueres are playing a bad game of catch-up for a reason.

 

[BongoBanger]

While it may not "do" all an N95 does, the things it does are executed in a far superior manner... so much so that I will never use any other phone.

Well, no, not really. Browsing yes but everything else is pretty much the same.

This is a pretty-well thought out OS here, not some Series 60 or Windows Mobile joke.

You see, comments like this are just plain silly. S60 is by no means a joke, it's a pretty good mobile OS that continues to evolve. That's why it dominates the smartphone market.

Other manufactueres are playing a bad game of catch-up for a reason.

I think you misunderstand. Apple are playing catch up here - in the US market where your selection of phones is, frankly, pretty woeful Apple have stolen a march. In the European markets they've failed to make a significant impression.

You should really understand what you're talking about before typing such nonsense.

 

[MACsimus19]

Well, no, not really. Browsing yes but everything else is pretty much the same.



You see, comments like this are just plain silly. S60 is by no means a joke, it's a pretty good mobile OS that continues to evolve. That's why it dominates the smartphone market.



I think you misunderstand. Apple are playing catch up here - in the US market where your selection of phones is, frankly, pretty woeful Apple have stolen a march. In the European markets they've failed to make a significant impression.

You should really understand what you're talking about before typing such nonsense.

"pretty much the same" is not the same. Maybe you think that its the same...just like for some people an HD TV is pretty much the same as an SD TV. They don't see a discernable difference - that's fine, I do and its why I wrote what I did.

I've had pleanty of time behind a series 60 device and the reason why they lead in the global smartphone platform is because they've had a significanlty greater amount of time to penetrate the market. Its no where near as advanced as what's running under the hood on the iPhone - to argue that point is SILLY. I don't think evolution has anything to do with it. Its made baby steps here and there but at the end of the day its still a numbers game and its all about how the carriers distribute their handsets. Just because they are a market leader doesn't mean its better. I think you can look a the Windows to Mac OS analogy here to understand that one.

Really, Apple's playing catch up? Wonder why nokia demo'd a touch-based modification of the series 60 UI with significant interface tweaks...

Or why HTC adds touch enhancements as an overlay to Windows mobile...

or why EVERY device manufacturer in the US feverishly started developing "iphone-killers" upon the iPhone's announcement.

I actually work in advertising for an AT&T competitor, I think I've got a pretty solid understanding of what I'm talking about.

They wear helmets for a reason here in the states. (wait for the retort...because were not as tough...riiiight)

 

[Archie-]

Its no where near as advanced as what's running under the hood on the iPhone - to argue that point is SILLY.

Now that may be the silliest statement ever. The OS in s60 supports a full bluetooth stack. iPhone not.

The S60 supports multi-tasking in 3rd party apps. iPhone not.

The S60 OS supports VOIP out of the box - iPhone not.

You are clearly fooled by Apple's "full OSX" propaganda. If the iPhone was running "full OSX" why is apple so scared of 3rd party apps that they have to certify each one?

The iPhone is full OSX just about as much as Windows Mobile is full Windows ie. not much.

 

[MACsimus19]

Now that may be the silliest statement ever. The OS in s60 supports a full bluetooth stack. iPhone not.

The S60 supports multi-tasking in 3rd party apps. iPhone not.

The S60 OS supports VOIP out of the box - iPhone not.

You are clearly fooled by Apple's "full OSX" propaganda. If the iPhone was running "full OSX" why is apple so scared of 3rd party apps that they have to certify each one?

The iPhone is full OSX just about as much as Windows Mobile is full Windows ie. not much.

I dont think you are seeing the forrest for the trees (or however that goes).
I'll trade Bluetooth AD2P for core video/core animation and the power to do some really impressive stuff down the line any day of the week. Come 2.0 I think there will be a hell of a lot fewer things to nitpick (which is really what you are doing here).

I don't think its a full OS X by any stretch of the imagination but I do think its the an OS that can truly grow and is primed for some really great 3rd party software. If you watched the last developer conference, you'd have seen some pretty impressive stuff - at least $100,000,000 worth

 

[powderblue17]

Now that may be the silliest statement ever. The OS in s60 supports a full bluetooth stack. iPhone not.

The S60 supports multi-tasking in 3rd party apps. iPhone not.

The S60 OS supports VOIP out of the box - iPhone not.

You are clearly fooled by Apple's "full OSX" propaganda. If the iPhone was running "full OSX" why is apple so scared of 3rd party apps that they have to certify each one?

The iPhone is full OSX just about as much as Windows Mobile is full Windows ie. not much.

Yeah and the OS on the S60 has been around a lot longer to so these features had the time to be developed. The iPhone OS is new so it's not going to have every feature possible but the underpinnings of the OS are the best available. Does your S60 have Core Animation effects like the iPhone does? Also the iPhone is perfectly capable of multi-tasking 3rd party apps but maybe Apple cares more about the user experience and knows that non-geeks will be using the iPhone. Do you expect a normal user to go into a task manager to see what's running and close apps manually?

 

[MACsimus19]

Yeah and the OS on the S60 has been around a lot longer to so these features had the time to be developed. The iPhone OS is new so it's not going to have every feature possible but the underpinnings of the OS are the best available. Does your S60 have Core Animation effects like the iPhone does? Also the iPhone is perfectly capable of multi-tasking 3rd party apps but maybe Apple cares more about the user experience and knows that non-geeks will be using the iPhone. Do you expect a normal user to go into a task manager to see what's running and close apps manually?

Things the iPhone can't do that s60 can - i'd argue most (90%) of them can be handled by 3rd party software the other 10% will be answered by the next hardware revision (see video ichat rumors from today)

Things s60 can't do that iPhone can (including providing an awe-inspiring user experience) - good luck

iPhone OS has a lot less work to do to get "there" than the other OS platforms will down the road

 

[Archie-]

I dont think you are seeing the forrest for the trees (or however that goes).
I'll trade Bluetooth AD2P for core video/core animation and the power to do some really impressive stuff down the line any day of the week. Come 2.0 I think there will be a hell of a lot fewer things to nitpick (which is really what you are doing here).

I think you are the one impressed by "potential" when the N95 has full video acceleration with 30 fps DVD quality video recording.

Bluetooth is far more than A2DP. There is Serial and FTP and DUN and Bluetooth printing and Sim Access profile and bluetooth HID profile (for keyboards etc). Nokia has it, the iPhone does not. You know, useful things vs eye candy.

I don't think its a full OS X by any stretch of the imagination but I do think its the an OS that can truly grow and is primed for some really great 3rd party software. If you watched the last developer conference, you'd have seen some pretty impressive stuff - at least $100,000,000 worth

And do you really think there was anything there that could not run on a N95 just as well?

 

[SFC Archer]

All due respect, but I'm guessing you never had a full keyboard smart phone prior to the iPhone. No matter how great it is to have the added screen space for the amazing interface, not to mention the 'pretty' factor, it is incredibly less effective than a physical keypad.

Is it better than texting with a 12 button 2/ABC 3/DEF etc. keypad? Absolutely. But almost across the board, regardless of the level of Apple fanboi-ism (admittedly, myself included), the keyboard is... not a disappointment, but definitely not near as fast or useable as a physical keypad.

Note the several posts on this forum asking about a pull out keyboard addition or the possible hack to allow the iPhone to interface with a bluetooth keyboard for further evidence.

I have alot of experience with a "full keyboard smart phone" the treo and crackberry...and typing on both totally suck. Keys are to small, multible buttons get pushed and shifting to use other characters was a task and a half trying to find the hidden symbols. I got so frustrated that I gave up texting unless I absolutely had to. Now with the iPhone keypad, i type all day long and have never had an issue. I can type upto 32 words a min which is fine for my purposes. My finger tips dont hurt after answering emails or forum threads and my spelling is actually better with the iPhone. So, with that in mind, I have to disagree and will only say that it depends on the user and which keypad suits his/her needs. No one is better then the other, its a user preference.

 

[MACsimus19]

I think you are the one impressed by "potential" when the N95 has full video acceleration with 30 fps DVD quality video recording.


Bluetooth is far more than A2DP. There is Serial and FTP and DUN and Bluetooth printing and Sim Access profile and bluetooth HID profile (for keyboards etc). Nokia has it, the iPhone does not. You know, useful things vs eye candy.



And do you really think there was anything there that could not run on a N95 just as well?

Yah...I hear the film making industry is moving over to N95's due to the incredible "DVD quality" recording. Talk about useless...cmon.


You are probably right, next time I've got a hankering to pull that bluetooth keyboard out of my back pocket, I know I'll wish I had a fully functional bluetooth stack on my iPhone. Frankly, I don't know how I've gotten along without it. I'd much rather have crappy bluetooth stereo headsets than my E500's and if I had a dollar for every time I needed to print that website from my phone to all the bluetooth printers I'm constantly surrounded by, I could probably retire!

In all seriousness, DUN might be nice but more often than not I find the browsing experience so pleasent I don't use my laptop. If your mobile browser is that good, maybe you don't need DUN (for browsing purposes). Again, forrest for the trees.

 

[BongoBanger]

They don't see a discernable difference.

In this case because there isn't one aside from the browser.

Its no where near as advanced as what's running under the hood on the iPhone - to argue that point is SILLY.

Actually no, it's fact as far as OS goes.

Just because they are a market leader doesn't mean its better. I think you can look a the Windows to Mac OS analogy here to understand that one.

Thing is you're claiming that the iPhone may be potentially better when all it has now is vapourware. S60 apps already exist.

When we see what actually comes out then you may have a point. Until then all you have is supposition.

Really, Apple's playing catch up? Wonder why nokia demo'd a touch-based modification of the series 60 UI with significant interface tweaks...

I think you're overfocusing on one aspect of the phone. The iPhones UI is great and other companies will rip it off, however it's not for everyone and doesn't detract from the fact that Nokia and others already release MMCs with third part app support and multiple features.

Apple are playing catch up here. Make no mistake of that.

or why EVERY device manufacturer in the US feverishly started developing "iphone-killers" upon the iPhone's announcement.

The N95 was released before the iPhone. S60 has been around for years.

I actually work in advertising for an AT&T competitor, I think I've got a pretty solid understanding of what I'm talking about.

See, this shows you don't because once again you're overfocusing on one thing - in this case the US market. As I've already mentioned, the US market isn't the same as the European market as the iPhone's sales over here show. There is much, much more smartphone competition here.

Archie has covered the other points - the iPhone doesn't have the hardware embedded features of the N95 and the iFund will be required to kick start the iPhone app business. The S60 app business already exists so it's simply not needed.

Honestly, you don't know what you're on about here.

 

[ruinfx]

this thread is starting to remind me of a 360 vs ps3 battle where the ps3 owners try and say they have the better console because of the games/features coming out in the future.

i think these types of "well you will see in x months just what our phone can do!" arguments are silly because it seems like they forget the fact other OSes will be upgrading as well. like someone already mentioned the s60 touch and feature pack 2 are right around the corner, as well as the next wave of N series phones. sure the iphone will be a little more competitive with the n95 once it gets updated with firmware 2.0 and 3rd party apps, but it will be behind the new nokia flagship models.

 

[MACsimus19]

In this case because there isn't one aside from the browser.



Actually no, it's fact as far as OS goes.



Thing is you're claiming that the iPhone may be potentially better when all it has now is vapourware. S60 apps already exist.

When we see what actually comes out then you may have a point. Until then all you have is supposition.



I think you're overfocusing on one aspect of the phone. The iPhones UI is great and other companies will rip it off, however it's not for everyone and doesn't detract from the fact that Nokia and others already release MMCs with third part app support and multiple features.

Apple are playing catch up here. Make no mistake of that.



The N95 was released before the iPhone. S60 has been around for years.



See, this shows you don't because once again you're overfocusing on one thing - in this case the US market. As I've already mentioned, the US market isn't the same as the European market as the iPhone's sales over here show. There is much, much more smartphone competition here.

Archie has covered the other points - the iPhone doesn't have the hardware embedded features of the N95 and the iFund will be required to kick start the iPhone app business. The S60 app business already exists so it's simply not needed.

Honestly, you don't know what you're on about here.

Vaporware...please come June you will see what vaporware is...that's just a lame argument-semantics at this point. I'm sure the whole industry gets all excited about a new release of the latest s60 dev kit.

Yes s60 has been around for years and is developed on an antiquated core. You can only put so much lipstick on a pig.

The US to the rest of the world comparison is one of volume and penetration. Apple selected the US for a reason, they knew they could get a carrier in bed with them. Why have the rest of the global carriers followed suit...'cause they know the iPhone is the future. I'm sure that as time marches on their global presence will become significantly stronger. When's the last time you heard Canada waiting on baited breath for a special edition 8800.

I'm sure that the app ecosystem for the s60 is a huge cash cow...much more so than the iEcosystem will ever be.


You invest in S60 I'll invest in Apple, we'll see which platform comes on on top - after all what does Apple know about software.

 

[Archie-]

we'll see which platform comes on on top.

You seem to miss the part where S60 is on top already. Why is that?

People who bought an iPhone nearly 10 months ago where confident Apple would give them the things they wanted, such as cut and paste, using their own music as ring tones, MMS, video capture, bluetooth GPS, horizontal keyboards etc. Apple never delivered.

Even by June, with iPhone 2.0, none of these things will come. The best thing to come is mass-deleting e-mail. Its actually shameful.

(Ive heard even exchange push e-mail wont be real push, but use 15 min polling. Shame)

 

[sjo]

Vaporware...please come June you will see what vaporware is...that's just a lame argument-semantics at this point. I'm sure the whole industry gets all excited about a new release of the latest s60 dev kit.

the whole industry didn't get excited. the apple fanatics just made a lot of noise.

Yes s60 has been around for years and is developed on an antiquated core. You can only put so much lipstick on a pig.

what a mature and credible argument. thanks for sharing your wisdom.

The US to the rest of the world comparison is one of volume and penetration. Apple selected the US for a reason, they knew they could get a carrier in bed with them. Why have the rest of the global carriers followed suit...'cause they know the iPhone is the future.

actually only handfull has followed the suit. and the reception of iphone in those markets hasn't been anything to write home about, as already pointed out several times.

I'm sure that as time marches on their global presence will become significantly stronger. When's the last time you heard Canada waiting on baited breath for a special edition 8800.

the point is that they don't need to wait. they can just insert their sim in any 8800 and start using it.

I'm sure that the app ecosystem for the s60 is a huge cash cow...much more so than the iEcosystem will ever be.

it actually is. that's what selling 78m symbian phones a year does. it will produce even more revenue this year when the sales will be 120m and ngage games will become available.

You invest in S60 I'll invest in Apple, we'll see which platform comes on on top - after all what does Apple know about software.

it's not about apple knowing about software. no one is saying that iphone is a bad phone or that it will not succeed. it's just that 1) iphone has a lot of catching up to do, and 2) s60 will prosper at the same time.

 

[Ninja Dom]

You seem to miss the part where S60 is on top already. Why is that?

People who bought an iPhone nearly 10 months ago where confident Apple would give them the things they wanted, such as cut and paste, using their own music as ring tones, MMS, video capture, bluetooth GPS, horizontal keyboards etc. Apple never delivered.

Even by June, with iPhone 2.0, none of these things will come. The best thing to come is mass-deleting e-mail. Its actually shameful.

How are you so confident that these won't come officially in June, either by Apple or by a third party company download through iTunes?? We know that these features are available to jailbroken iPhone's already.

 

[BongoBanger]

MACsimus19, your whole argument boils down to 'jam tomorrow'.

However, ruinfx is right: this is merely a pissing contest so instead here's a nice picture of a tree:

http://www.freefoto.com/images/15/19/15_19_8---Tree--Northumberland_web.jpg

 

[Archie-]

How are you so confident that these won't come officially in June, either by Apple or by a third party company download through iTunes?? We know that these features are available to jailbroken iPhone's already.

Because (end of) June is 3 months away, and iPhone 2.0 has leaked everywhere already?

I'm sure everyone was just waiting with baited breath for parental controls, weren't they?

Also, the SDK is so crippled, nothing deeply useful (like cut and paste, bluetooth A2DP or bluetooth serial profile) will come from it.

 

[Ninja Dom]

Because (end of) June is 3 months away, and iPhone 2.0 has leaked everywhere already?

I'm sure everyone was just waiting with baited breath for parental controls, weren't they?

Also, the SDK is so crippled, nothing deeply useful (like cut and paste, bluetooth A2DP or bluetooth serial profile) will come from it.

How is the SDK "so crippled"? I can't program so I never downloaded it and played about with it. Plus I'm still on a Power PC Mac Mini.

Why is Bluetooth A2DP so important?? I had it on my Sony Ericsson K800 but have no interest in using Bluetooth stereo headphones. My Bose wired headphones by far beat any Bluetooth stereo headphones I've ever tried. In fact I think that the specialist headphone company's (Bose, Shure, V-Moda etc) make far higher quality wired headphones than mobile phone company's bluetooth offerings.

Amirite??