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DearthnVader

macrumors 68000
Dec 17, 2015
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Maybe Dual link DVI is a spec that includes single link DVI - like how the HDMI 2.1 spec includes HDMI 2.0 so people can call HDMI 2.0 cables HDMI 2.1 even though HDMI 2.0 cables are limited to 18Gbps.

So this cable is compatible with dual link DVI - you can connect it to a dual link DVI connector or cable, but it can't transmit dual link DVI - only single link.

HDMI uses the same pins and signals as single link DVI so there's no converter chip and the cable is bidirectional. HDMI is just single link DVI with a new connector. If there was a converter chip then the cable would cost more than $12 and it wouldn't be bidirectional.
I understand, somewhat, what you and @Amethyst1 are saying, but at the same time they are selling this cable as supporting resolutions up to 3840 x 2160 @ 30Hz and Dual-link DVI to HDMI 1.4 as well as HDMI 1.4 to DVI.

Club 3D has a product page for this cable that says the same thing and a support forum, so if it doesn't work it's going to be them just flat out lying about what it supports and I'm only out $12.

Anyway, I got my Radeon 9600 Mac/PC card and it has no issues in my 733Mhz QS or my 867 Mhz QS.

I tested the X3 has no issues in a QS 733/ QS 800/ QS 867. All three report Keylargo V3 and UniNorth 1.5 v1. As we already know, but I'll just repeat it, the X3 has no issue in my MDD Dual 867Mhz or my G5 1.6Ghz. So whatever the stepping issue is, it doesn't effect any of my tests. Sadly I fried my Dual 1 Ghz QS, so I can't test that.
 
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DearthnVader

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Dec 17, 2015
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@joevt @Amethyst1 So, of course you were correct about the Club3D cable, it does not work to drive to Samsung 65" TU7000 3840x2160@30hz from either the FireGL X3 or the R9600 Mac/PC Edition.

The display does report this resolution and refresh rate to the Mac OS Display control, I don't need to use SwitchRes to get this in the listed resolutions, sadly the display won't sync when it is selected.

The RX580 and this cable does work up to 3840x2160@60Hz but I think it's really just driving it over a single-link of the DVI. I read somewhere that cards like my RX580 with DisplayPort and DVI can do this because the DVI port isn't really just DVI. I think this card can do 600Mhz pixel clock over a single-link of the DVI.

I did need to use SwitchRes to get this resolution and refresh rate to work.

I'm not real sure what the deal is with the Dual-link DVI end of the Club3D cable, I mean Single-Link DVI is 9 pins and HDMI is 9 Pins, so are the other 9 pins of the Club3D cable even connected to anything?

I wonder if we could blueprint an active adapter to do dual-link DVI to HDMI 2.0 or 1.4?
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
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So, of course you were correct about the Club3D cable, it does not work to drive to Samsung 65" TU7000 3840x2160@30hz from either the FireGL X3 or the R9600 Mac/PC Edition.
Out of interest — does your TV sync to a 18.9Hz or less refresh rate at that resolution? That’s doable via single-link DVI.

The RX580 and this cable does work up to 3840x2160@60Hz but I think it's really just driving it over a single-link of the DVI. I read somewhere that cards like my RX580 with DisplayPort and DVI can do this because the DVI port isn't really just DVI. I think this card can do 600Mhz pixel clock over a single-link of the DVI.
The DVI port acts like a HDMI 2.0 port then.

I wonder if we could blueprint an active adapter to do dual-link DVI to HDMI 2.0 or 1.4?
Just daisy-chain a dual-link DVI to DisplayPort adapter and a DisplayPort-to-HDMI adapter in your PCB.

VGA-to-DisplayPort adapters work like this, they go VGA-to-HDMI and then HDMI-to-DisplayPort internally, using two discrete chipsets.
 

DearthnVader

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Dec 17, 2015
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Out of interest — does your TV sync to a 18.9Hz or less refresh rate at that resolution? That’s doable via single-link DVI.
I can't really find the specs for the panel used for the TU7000, but I think the minimum refresh rate is 19.20Hz.

I'm having trouble with SwitchResX on Tiger PPC, when I try and set a custom resolution of 2560x1440@24Hz it always leaves the positive sync unchecked and I can't seem to delete any of the custom resolutions I have set. Some preference file somewhere I need to delete or something, it's not really saving any new custom resolutions. I tried to uninstall and reinstall but it always saves the same custom resolutions that don't work because positive sync isn't set. When I add one and hit apply I think it should ask for my root password, but it doesn't, and even when I save it and reboot it doesn't activate the new resolution, it just says it's not saved.
The DVI port acts like a HDMI 2.0 port then.
I think that's essentially correct.
Just daisy-chain a dual-link DVI to DisplayPort adapter and a DisplayPort-to-HDMI adapter in your PCB.

VGA-to-DisplayPort adapters work like this, they go VGA-to-HDMI and then HDMI-to-DisplayPort internally, using two discrete chipsets.
Are there any Dual-Link DVI to Displayport active adapters that can drive resolutions as high as 3840x2160@30Hz?
 

Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
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I can't really find the specs for the panel used for the TU7000, but I think the minimum refresh rate is 19.20Hz.
That would work via single-link DVI using CVT-RB v2 timings. The version of SwitchResX on Tiger might be too old to generate CVT-RB v2 timings but if it can import modelines try this one:

Modeline "3840x2160_19.2" 164.075 3840 3848 3880 3920 2160 2166 2174 2180 +HSync -VSync

BTW, I've had framebuffer corruption when running 3840×2160 on Mac OS X from a Mobility Radeon 9700 (which is based on the 9600). If you do get 3840×2160 working from the 9600, please check if you also have 'em. The 7500, 9000 and 9200 are not affected.

Are there any Dual-Link DVI to Displayport active adapters that can drive resolutions as high as 3840x2160@30Hz?
Yeah. The Atlona AT-DP400 we've been talking about can just about handle it. :) Dr. Bott also sold a clone of the Atlona AT-DP400 as "Digital Video Link DL", and Gefen also have one that has more features and can handle higher pixel clocks.
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
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How do I use this command?
When you define a custom resolution in SwitchResX: in the pop-up window where you enter all the parameters, there should be a cogwheel symbol in the lower left corner. Clicking that should open a menu with options, one of them being to import a modeline. Paste the modeline in. (Disclaimer: I've never done that myself.)

edit: Scrub that. SwitchResX 3.8.7 works differently. :oops:
 
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DearthnVader

macrumors 68000
Dec 17, 2015
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Red Springs, NC
When you define a custom resolution in SwitchResX: in the pop-up window where you enter all the parameters, there should be a cogwheel symbol in the lower left corner. Clicking that should open a menu with options, one of them being to import a modeline. Paste the modeline in. (Disclaimer: I've never done that myself.)
I'm using SwitchResX v3.8.7 and I see no such cogwheel, is there a newer version I should be using for Tiger 10.4.11 PPC?
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
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I'm using SwitchResX v3.8.7 and I see no such cogwheel, is there a newer version I should be using for Tiger 10.4.11 PPC?
3.8.7 is said to import modelines. So when you add a custom resolution, there’s no cogwheel in the lower left corner as seen on this screenshot (of a newer version — I’m not near my Macs right now so can’t check 3.8.7)?

Screen-Shot-2017-08-29-at-2.56.11-PM.png


edit: Scrub that. SwitchResX 3.8.7 works differently. :oops:
 
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DearthnVader

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Dec 17, 2015
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Red Springs, NC
3.8.7 is said to import modelines. So when you add a custom resolution, there’s no cogwheel in the lower left corner as seen on this screenshot (of a newer version — I’m not near my Macs right now so can’t check 3.8.7)?

Screen-Shot-2017-08-29-at-2.56.11-PM.png
Nope, there appear two buttons there that I think are copy from clip board and paste from clip board but I can't figure how to use them. I tried to copy the modeling commands to the clipboard and use these buttons, but it doesn't do anything.
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
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Nope, there appear two buttons there that I think are copy from clip board and paste from clip board but I can't figure how to use them. I tried to copy the modeling commands to the clipboard and use these buttons, but it doesn't do anything.
I've just tried SwitchResX 3.8.7.

While the second button will paste the modeline from the clipboard once it looks like the following, it doesn't read it correctly.

Linux modeline parameters: "3840x2160_19.2" 164.075 3840 3848 3880 3920 2160 2166 2174 2180 +HSync -VSync

Sorry for sending you down the wrong path. :oops:

Let's try doing it manually. Define a custom resolution as follows (but use a dot instead of a comma where a comma appears):

Bild 1.png
 

DearthnVader

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Dec 17, 2015
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I've just tried SwitchResX 3.8.7.

While the second button will paste the modeline from the clipboard once it looks like the following, it doesn't read it correctly.

Linux modeline parameters: "3840x2160_19.2" 164.075 3840 3848 3880 3920 2160 2166 2174 2180 +HSync -VSync

Sorry for sending you down the wrong path. :oops:

Let's try doing it manually. Define a custom resolution as follows (but use a dot instead of a comma where a comma appears):

View attachment 2041113
Thanks, but it still won't save the Positive sync.

Maybe some things don't work unless I register SwitchResX, I could be having issues as I installed it without properly setting my date and time, then set them. I think it only works for 10 days or something.
 

Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
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Maybe some things don't work unless I register SwitchResX, I could be having issues as I installed it without properly setting my date and time, then set them. I think it only works for 10 days or something.
IIRC if it doesn’t show the trial period reminder anymore it’s expired.
 

DearthnVader

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I took off and nuked it from space........

Put in a drive with Tiger that never had SwitchResX installed and reinstalled it, it still won't active any 2160p resolutions with positive sync. set, it just keeps saying the will be active after save, but I save them and it says active after reboot. After the reboot same thing, only the 2160p without positive sync is active and the others say active after saving.
 

Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
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Put in a drive with Tiger that never had SwitchResX installed and reinstalled it, it still won't active any 2160p resolutions with positive sync. set, it just keeps saying the will be active after save, but I save them and it says active after reboot. After the reboot same thing, only the 2160p without positive sync is active and the others say active after saving.
Does it do this if entering everything manually and also when “Use simplified settings” and “CVT-RB” is selected?

I can't really find the specs for the panel used for the TU7000, but I think the minimum refresh rate is 19.20Hz.
You can verify this using the RX 580 since SwitchResX works on that machine. :)
 

joevt

Contributor
Jun 21, 2012
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I'm not real sure what the deal is with the Dual-link DVI end of the Club3D cable, I mean Single-Link DVI is 9 pins and HDMI is 9 Pins, so are the other 9 pins of the Club3D cable even connected to anything?
Nope. Not connected.

I wonder if we could blueprint an active adapter to do dual-link DVI to HDMI 2.0 or 1.4?
Just daisy-chain a dual-link DVI to DisplayPort adapter and a DisplayPort-to-HDMI adapter in your PCB.

VGA-to-DisplayPort adapters work like this, they go VGA-to-HDMI and then HDMI-to-DisplayPort internally, using two discrete chipsets.
Probably could be a lot simpler than dual-link DVI to DisplayPort to HDMI. I think combining two links into one might be a simple process - a small buffer for two pixels might be enough? Not sure if we have to decode and encode 8b/10b. The complicated part might be how the adapter would identify itself as dual link? Probably can be done with an FPGA?

The DVI port acts like a HDMI 2.0 port then.
But it also supports dual link DVI? I know some DVI ports that act like HDMI 2.0 don't support dual link DVI but I don't think that applies to a discrete GPU like the RX580.

I'm having trouble with SwitchResX on Tiger PPC, when I try and set a custom resolution of 2560x1440@24Hz it always leaves the positive sync unchecked and I can't seem to delete any of the custom resolutions I have set. Some preference file somewhere I need to delete or something, it's not really saving any new custom resolutions. I tried to uninstall and reinstall but it always saves the same custom resolutions that don't work because positive sync isn't set. When I add one and hit apply I think it should ask for my root password, but it doesn't, and even when I save it and reboot it doesn't activate the new resolution, it just says it's not saved.
Connect the display to a new Mac using a current version of SwitchResX. Create the custom resolution. Then move the override file to the Tiger PPC. Verify that the format and naming convention of the override files match.
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
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But it also supports dual link DVI? I know some DVI ports that act like HDMI 2.0 don't support dual link DVI but I don't think that applies to a discrete GPU like the RX580.
I can test this with a RX 460.
 

DearthnVader

macrumors 68000
Dec 17, 2015
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But it also supports dual link DVI?
Yes, I use it everyday with my 30" Apple display.

Nope. Not connected.
That's what I'm thinking, I wonder why the subterfuge by Club3D, I mean they could have made a simple cable and stated that it would only support cards that really had HDMI via DVI like just about any modern card with DisplayPort and DVI.

Pretty dishonest if you ask me, and a good way to give your company a bad reputation, not to mention the extra production costs of the added pins that connect to nothing. I'm going to ask over at the support forums, but I don't think anyone from the company replies there, however it's just the optimist in me that wants to think they had some reason other than deception and greed to market this cable the way they did.
Connect the display to a new Mac using a current version of SwitchResX. Create the custom resolution. Then move the override file to the Tiger PPC. Verify that the format and naming convention of the override files match.
I'll give that a go.....
Probably could be a lot simpler than dual-link DVI to DisplayPort to HDMI. I think combining two links into one might be a simple process - a small buffer for two pixels might be enough? Not sure if we have to decode and encode 8b/10b. The complicated part might be how the adapter would identify itself as dual link? Probably can be done with an FPGA?
As you said tho, there are no Dual-Link DVI capable HDMI ports, or at least we don't know of any displays that ever incorporated it, so we'd have to do some type of magic to convert it to the signal HDMI 4k displays expect.
 
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Amethyst1

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Oct 28, 2015
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That's what I'm thinking, I wonder why the subterfuge by Club3D, I mean they could have made a simple cable and stated that it would only support cards that really had HDMI via DVI like just about any modern card with DisplayPort and DVI.
That could also have led to confusion ("HDMI via DVI?" — "What the heck does that mean?"). They could just have played it safe and sold it as a single-link DVI to HDMI.

I'll give that a go.....
Do you also have Leopard on the Mac? If so, it's worth checking if SwitchResX 4.3.6 behaves differently.
 
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DearthnVader

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Dec 17, 2015
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That could also have led to confusion ("HDMI via DVI?" — "What the heck does that mean?"). They could just have played it safe and sold it as a single-link DVI to HDMI.


Do you also have Leopard on the Mac? If so, it's worth checking if SwitchResX 4.3.6 behaves differently.
I installed Leopard and this version of SRX works as we expect, thanks.

Sadly with your perimeters the TV still won't sync to 3840x2160@19.2.
 
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DearthnVader

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What about, say, 3360×1890@24 using CVT-RB timings? (SwitchResX 3.8.7/4.3.6 can calculate CVT-RB timings by itself.) Or 2560×1440@30?
No go, I switched back to the RX580 and Big_Sur for some more testing......

It seem that the DVI port is only outputting 1080p@whatever refresh rate I chose and when I am seeing 2160p it's really some sort of scaler.

When I change the refresh rate the TV's built-in info on the input does reflect that change, but changing the screen resolution of the DVI port the TV always reposts 1080p.

I'm going to get a normal DVI(SL) to HDMI cable and test with that.......
 

joevt

Contributor
Jun 21, 2012
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It seem that the DVI port is only outputting 1080p@whatever refresh rate I chose and when I am seeing 2160p it's really some sort of scaler.
What do you mean, "seems"? SwitchResX should tell you exactly the timing that is being output. Double click the currently selected resolution in the current resolutions list to see the timing info. It should show active pixels, pixel clock, refresh rate. You can try using AllRez to list all the info for all the display modes.

Do you mean the TV has a scaler that takes 2160p and only displays 1080p?
 
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ervus

macrumors 6502
Apr 3, 2020
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I have included not only my device ID edited version for the FireGL X3, but also the original untouched version for people

Does anyone know how to change the speeds on this ROM? I was thinking about trying again on a different card, but the ones available look like they have the slower infineon RAM, and graphiccelerator does not recognize this ROM.
 

LightBulbFun

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Nov 17, 2013
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London UK
Does anyone know how to change the speeds on this ROM? I was thinking about trying again on a different card, but the ones available look like they have the slower infineon RAM, and graphiccelerator does not recognize this ROM.

Oh yeah you want this custom version of Graphiccelerator

when Surrat got the card in his G5 and noticed it had a newer then normal ROM he submitted it to the chap who made Graphiccelerator and he provided back a custom version updated for it :)

I have never actually had a need to try it out, so hopefully it works!
 

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