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You have no idea.

Sure... the same "no idea" (sic) that Microsoft had when fighting the Mac with Windows --sorry-- with DOS back in 1984. Guess who won!!!

If you sell to 1 person there is no point, but if you sell to 1,000 million people as today, there is the profit and the strategy. That is the M$ business! It seems that both Apple and you are blind on this. Again, the same mistake. History repeats.
 
Dear "Peace" and others who contend that one cannot build a Mac Pro equivalent for less money,

You forget the ease with which one can overclock components to achieve far higher performance than they are rated for. This is all but impossible to do well on a Mac, whereas it would be a piece of cake on a Hackintosh.

The 45nm Harpertown chips used in the Mac Pro are especially conducive to overclocking. To wit (all prices from everyone's favorite Egg):

Skulltrail 2 CPU MoBo: $630
Two 2.5 GHz E5420 Harpertown Quad Cores (same cache as that in the $2799 Mac Pro): $350 each, $700 total
Two Super Talent 1GB FB-DIMMS, DDR2 800, $48 each, $96 total.

If my math is correct, these core components come out to be right around $1,426. That leaves us $1,400 to play with for storage, optical drives, case and power supply, and a video card that isn't as anemic as the 2600 XT that the base Mac Pro comes with. I think one could probably come in at right about $2,000 total, for a savings of about $800.

As for the overclock, going from 2.5 to 2.8 is a very modest bump, and could easily be accomplished by bumping the FSB up a few MHz (both the MoBo and the RAM are capable of such speeds). Tom's Hardware found the Skulltrail board to be fairly decent at overclocking. I would venture to say that with luck, one could crank the Xeons up to a full 1600 MHz FSB, yielding a speed of 3.0 GHz (an option that, when specified on the Mac Pro, raises the total price to $3,600). For those who would like to argue that this would require an exotic cooling solution, I would point out that the higher spec'd chips come with the same heatsink as the lower ones do, and so they should be more than capable of dealing with the excess heat.

Whether or not this is what the Mac experience is supposed to be like is irrelevant; the point is, one can indeed build a system that performs equivalently for less money, and it would not be terribly difficult. Once the settings are made and tested, such a system will be as fast as (and possibly faster than) a Mac Pro for far less money.

If I'm going to go the route of twin Xeons and all that, I would just buy a Mac Pro. That's not really what this device is targeted at. It's for the guy (or girl) that wants a expandable computer with say a 3.0Ghz Core 2 Duo. It just doesn't exist in Apple's line, therefore this product makes sense.
 
This is the cheap solution for the missing expandable desktop solution, not a replacement for the Mac Pro for under $800 as claimed.

You are correct. The article also neglects to include the cost of Leopard and the EFI-X dongle. The "home grown Mac Pro" is already well past $1000 for dual core Core 2 instead of eight core Xeon. You couldn't buy two quad Xeons for $1000, let alone a complete "Mac Pro equivalent".

Not comparing apples to Apples.
 
I think if it bothers Apple, they wouldn't be able to sue them, but probably make some changes in the software.
 
Sure... the same "no idea" (sic) that Microsoft had when fighting the Mac with Windows --sorry-- with DOS back in 1984. Guess who won!!!

If you sell to 1 person there is no point, but if you sell to 1,000 million people as today, there is the profit and the strategy. That is the M$ business! It seems that both Apple and you are blind on this. Again, the same mistake. History repeats.
Are you assuming that Apple is out to be number 1?

I'm sure like any company they want a higher market share, but not every company is out to be the biggest.
 
I am still amazed by how few people grasp the true significance of these sort of developments. If Apple is losing money by selling OS X at a relatively low price to those who are not selling Apple hardware (where most of Apple's profit is, then Apple will solve this problem by increasing the price of OS X updates and add copy protection and mandatory registration. After all, the current low price of OS X reflects the fact that buyers have already invested in Apple hardware, and the cost of the software is built into that initial hardware investment. So, OS X will be the next Windows - expensive, and a pain to install.

Is that what we all really want?
 
If you need a Mac Pro, then the Mac Pro hardware is actually worth getting.

Most people don't need a Mac Pro, but because Apple provide them with such a smorgasbord of options ... well, Mac Mini and Mac Pro.

Now if Apple did introduce a mid-line desktop solution without a built-in display, then they would inevitably sell fewer Mac Pros. In my opinion the extra volume of sales would more than make up for it. I really don't understand why there isn't a product available here, it's a gaping wide hole.

You can build a decent system for a few hundred dollars/quid/euros. With this dongle, or any other EFI system, and a copy of Mac OS X, you can have your own mid-line Mac. It's not an ideal setup, but it's better than a Mac Mini, and good enough for the uses you may have in mind for it.
 
OSX is derived from open source materials. It's a very refined and polished linux distribution.

Mac OS X is not based on Linux, in any form.

It is based upon Mach and BSD, and the latter is a proper Unix. Leopard is Unix certified.

What makes the Mac OS X experience is the proprietary frameworks on top however.
 
Sure... the same "no idea" (sic) that Microsoft had when fighting the Mac with Windows --sorry-- with DOS back in 1984. Guess who won!!!
To have won would imply there was a finish, computers are evolving, and its still very much game on. Thats if one was to consider computing a game in the first place.

MSFT's strategy 'won' in terms of numbers in the short term, during the computing era of old. I'm fairly confident the next decade is Apples for the taking, and what you are suggesting is that Apple should deviate from what is clearly a 'winning' strategy. To suggest different would back my questioning of the existence of your "idea" or not.

If you sell to 1 person there is no point, but if you sell to 1,000 million people as today, there is the profit and the strategy. That is the M$ business! It seems that both Apple and you are blind on this. Again, the same mistake. History repeats.


The profit on 1000million rubber dingy's may well be > than 1 luxury yacht
But if you can sell luxury yachts to 20% of the 1000million potential customers...
 
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This seems really cool but it is a bit of a novelty. It is a really good thing for those with a really nice gaming PC that would like to run OS X though.
 
The part of me that loves Apple hates that people keep trying to do this. What always made Apple products work so well was that they weren't running on gobs of different hardware..

What I LOVE about this, is maybe it will start to prod apple into producing hardware that is at least in RANGE of the PC counterparts price-wise.

Mac OS X is not based on Linux, in any form.

There are actually people out there that believe UNIX is based on Linux...
 
Maybe because they like OS X, but don't have the funds for a Mac.

Not so much not having the funds, but not wanting to deal with Apple the company. Especially not with their East German attitude lately. "This is what we offer, and that's what you'll get, citizen!"
 
I am going to go out on a limb here, but I am not sure that Apple officially introducing OSX for a standard PC would be such a bad thing.


+1

If Apple are going to stay out of the mid tower market they could still gain a large customer base by buying the rights to these dongles and allowing hobbyists and the like to build their own home grade (ie not a competitor to the Mac Pro - and yes it does cost more or less the same to build a Hackintosh equivalent to a Mac Pro with Quad core Xeons! :rolleyes:) machines from an Apple authorised Hardware Compatibility List. Apple could code OS X to take a regular snapshot of machine specs and if the user were to phone up with a problem, provided from the last several snapshots there were no unsupported pieces of hardware, they could get help from Apple's Tech Support line.

Having bought the rights Apple could then insist that they were only sold with a retail Leopard DVD too.

I can't ever see them doing it, but it wouldn't be such a bad idea.
 
I love these threads, because it shows nothing ever changes here: :)

Step 1 -- People A point out how macs are expensive for whatever reason

Step 2 -- People B say they are not expensive for x , y, or z reason

Step 3 -- People A refute said reasons

Step 4 -- Insults


I agree with People A. Macs are more expensive, but I think they are worth the extra cost. I also would love a normal Mac PC and not the Mac Pro, but Apple will not do this so hackintosh ahoy...
 
Wow thats pretty cool. Only PC enthusiasts generally use gigabyte boards with p35/p45/x48 chipsets. Those people wouldn't buy a mac anyway, so this poses no real threat to apple in its current stage.

Still very interesting.
 
I am still amazed by how few people grasp the true significance of these sort of developments. If Apple is losing money by selling OS X at a relatively low price to those who are not selling Apple hardware (where most of Apple's profit is, then Apple will solve this problem by increasing the price of OS X updates and add copy protection and mandatory registration. After all, the current low price of OS X reflects the fact that buyers have already invested in Apple hardware, and the cost of the software is built into that initial hardware investment. So, OS X will be the next Windows - expensive, and a pain to install.
Yeah, I tried explaining that but people seem not to care, see my signature it even has a link to that article saying what happen last time when Apple allows OSX on generic PC
 
So do Apple sue?
Or do we get the expandable desktop computer we have been begging for?

Money on door one? :(

We already do! It's called a Mac Pro. Mine is running OS X, Vista Business, XP Pro, and Unix. I can run in parallel (VMWare) or Boot directly. Plus this keeps sales of Apple hardware going and therefore the only creative company in the computer market healthy. Why would you prefer a PC with a dubiously legal Mac add on instead?
 
The part of me that loves Apple hates that people keep trying to do this. What always made Apple products work so well was that they weren't running on gobs of different hardware..

What I LOVE about this, is maybe it will start to prod apple into producing hardware that is at least in RANGE of the PC counterparts price-wise.

It still won't be running on gobs of different hardware. This is a hardware "dongle" for lack of a better term that makes the user's PC appear to be hardware compliant with OS/X. In a sense, you are purchasing $155 worth of hardware to make your current PC compliant with OS/X specifications, not the other way around.

There are actually people out there that believe UNIX is based on Linux...

That's the price of notoriety. Linux is a specific named OS, Unix is more a family of OS's. Most casual users wouldn't get the difference, they know there is some relationship there, and they assume the one they hear the most about is the older - more "important" one.
 
If all companies were forced to allow others to use their IP...

EFI in general, is not Apple's intellectual property. I would be curious, though, to learn whether Apple has added any unique extensions to their implementation, necessary to OSX's unmodified operation, that aren't owned by Intel or the Unified EFI Forum.

I'd also be curious to learn what impact, if any, the existence of Intel or MSI's EFI-enabled generic motherboards (eg. MSI's P45D3 Platinum) is having on the necessity to modify OSX prior to installation.
 
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