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till213

Suspended
Jul 1, 2011
423
88
Can someone else try this and see if you get the same results? I am wondering if rootless needs to be turned back off, in order to turn off TRIM in the app.

What Trim Enabler basically does is "patch" the corresponding Apple kernel extension by basically disabling the check whether the given SSD is on the "Apple white list".

Tampering ("writing") with kernel extensions is now forbidden, when the new feature "rootless" is enabled: even as "root" you cannot overwrite those system kernel extensions.

I haven't tried it myself, but since "turning off" Trim Enabler implies "patching" the Apple kernel extension again by restoring it to its original state, means: "write it again", I would very much expect that you have to disable "rootless" again in order to do so.

(Once Trim Enabler has messed around with that kernel extension, you can obviously enable "rootless" again - but what comes a bit of a surprise to me that it is then obviously not necessary to still disable "kernel extension signature check", once you have enabled TRIM. Also see my previous post).

Sounds logical, no?
 

Daku93

macrumors regular
Oct 29, 2010
235
253
Another interesting thing: according to "man trimforce", it was introduced in the not yet final 10.10.4
 

mikeboss

macrumors 65816
Aug 13, 2009
1,451
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switzerland
Mike did you have to turn rootless off prior to this?

SU has always seemed more reliable and/or powerful than SUDO. Does using SU remove the need to change Rootless?

I was unable to run trimforce without disabling rootless mode first.

I went through the official Apple route and bootet into the recovery partition. there's a new menu to disable the rootless mode. I then rebooted and issued the terminal command. afterwards booted again into the recovery partition to enable rootless again. done!
 

crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,752
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Charlotte, NC
So this and the previous posts suggest that disabling kernel signing is not required anymore when disabling rootless?

And people claim TRIM support is still working when you re-enable rootless AND disable developer mode again (-> kernel signature check re-enabled)?! That comes as a bit of surprise, and if that's the case, I guess that's really a bug and will be fixed in the release version.

Or does the OS really not bother anymore to verify kernel extension signatures - at least the extensions it "knows" are from Apple - when rootless is enabled, under the assumption that "they couldn't have changed anyway"?

Somehow I don't think that will remain forever - that sounds like a bug to me...

Since Apple has provided us with Trimforce from terminal, the point is moot for now. No special tool is needed.

Maybe Apple really is listening to our noise!
 

crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,752
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Charlotte, NC
I was unable to run trimforce without disabling rootless mode first.

I went through the official Apple route and bootet into the recovery partition. there's a new menu to disable the rootless mode. I then rebooted and issued the terminal command. afterwards booted again into the recovery partition to enable rootless again. done!

Okay great, so as long as they don't remove the option to manipulate rootless, we're golden.
 

Cindori

macrumors 68040
Jan 17, 2008
3,523
372
Sweden
So it looks like we've won. All the ranting, petitions and articles finally paid off. I have to say, after 4 years, I did not expect this coming now, especially as Apple hasn't been selling Mac's with 3rd party SATA bays for a long time.

Updates are coming to Trim Enabler and Disk Sensei to take advantage of the Apple sanctioned way of enabling Trim. We're finally going to get Trim on the Mac without compromising system security or stability. :D
 
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Weaselboy

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 23, 2005
31,987
11,725
California
I was unable to run trimforce without disabling rootless mode first.

I went through the official Apple route and bootet into the recovery partition. there's a new menu to disable the rootless mode. I then rebooted and issued the terminal command. afterwards booted again into the recovery partition to enable rootless again. done!
This is good news for aftermarket flash drives.

I'm wondering if you could streamline what you did a bit. Is Terminal still in the Utilities menu in Recovery like it is in Yosemite? So you could disable rootless, then run the command in Terminal, then reenable rootless all without having to reboot. Would that work?
 

crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,752
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Charlotte, NC
This is good news for aftermarket flash drives.

I'm wondering if you could streamline what you did a bit. Is Terminal still in the Utilities menu in Recovery like it is in Yosemite? So you could disable rootless, then run the command in Terminal, then reenable rootless all without having to reboot. Would that work?

Re-read your post, I misunderstood it the first time around. Good question, if no one else try's it, I'll do it this weekend to find out.
 
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crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
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Charlotte, NC
For anyone who's interested and hasn't yet discovered this. Apple has provided us with a tool to turn TRIM on for ALL SSDs that support it. It's called trimforce.

Credit for finding this goes to mikeboss & Daku93

Procedure for Cappy - (Yosemite is pending)


1 - Boot into the recovery partition, and use the new Security Configuration menu tool to turn off rootless

2 - Reboot to desktop and open a terminal session

3 - Enter the command "sudo trimforce enable"

4 - Press the enter key and follow all the prompts, and agree to the terms of use

5 - Reboot into the recovery partition and turn rootless back on again

6 - Boot to the normal desktop and enjoy trim on all of your SSDs

Reportedly, the final release of Yosemite will also include this ability but to my knowledge it hasn't yet been included in the beta of 10.10.4

I posted this in the MP section regarding NGFF SSD's
 
Last edited:

MarcelEdward

macrumors member
Sep 24, 2012
46
0
Yay my mac mini has got an ssd, is still fast but didn't know it needed trim.
Now it knows it. It needs trim to keep the ssd in shape.
 

crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,752
1,909
Charlotte, NC
This is good news for aftermarket flash drives.

I'm wondering if you could streamline what you did a bit. Is Terminal still in the Utilities menu in Recovery like it is in Yosemite? So you could disable rootless, then run the command in Terminal, then reenable rootless all without having to reboot. Would that work?

Okay, gave it a go. It doesn't appear to work that way at all. Commands not recognized when in recovery mode terminal. Also, just changing to rootless from the Security Configuration menu requires a reboot.
 
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Weaselboy

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 23, 2005
31,987
11,725
California
Okay, gave it a go. It doesn't appear to work that way at all. Commands not recognized when in recovery mode terminal. Also, just changing to rootless from the Security Configuration menu requires a reboot.
I guess that makes sense, since it is a boot argument and one would need to reboot for it to take effect.

Thanks for the test though.
 

Partron22

macrumors 68030
Apr 13, 2011
2,655
800
Yes
I wouldn't give Apple too much credit on this one.
The future is staring us all in the face, and it does not involve spinny-go-roundy data storage and retrieval.
Apple had a choice: relent on 3rd party trim, or gain a rep for selling crippled machines.

I wonder which choice would be better for the bottom line of a supposedly trendy hardware company?
 

SG-

macrumors regular
Jun 8, 2015
107
65
man you just can't let it go even after your'e given a free sandwich.
 

crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,752
1,909
Charlotte, NC
People over in the discussion forum are finding way to complain about the whole thing still. I do thank Apple for listening to the complaints and finally taking action on them. No matter what good thing occurs for us, there are so many complainers at MR it's ridiculous. It's like a thirsty man begging for water, and when he finally gets it, he bitches that it's not bottled spring water from the Ozark mountains, so he pours it on the ground and would rather die of thirst than say thank you.

I guess people would be happier if Apple didn't throw us a bone. That way they could continue to cry and stamp their feet. Now that something is done, they're crying about the way it works.
 

PowerBook-G5

macrumors 65816
Jul 30, 2013
1,243
1,179
The United States of America
For anyone who's interested and hasn't yet discovered this. Apple has provided us with a tool to turn TRIM on for ALL SSDs that support it. It's called trimforce.

Credit for finding this goes to mikeboss & Daku93

Procedure for Cappy - (Yosemite is pending)


1 - Boot into the recovery partition, and use the new Security Configuration menu tool to turn off rootless

2 - Reboot to desktop and open a terminal session

3 - Enter the command "sudo trimforce enable"

4 - Press the enter key and follow all the prompts, and agree to the terms of use

5 - Reboot into the recovery partition and turn rootless back on again

6 - Boot to the normal desktop and enjoy trim on all of your SSDs

Reportedly, the final release of Yosemite will also include this ability but to my knowledge it hasn't yet been included in the beta of 10.10.4

I posted this in the MP section regarding NGFF SSD's

Question: Does this permanently enable TRIM so that it never needs to be messed with again? With TRIM Enabler on Yosemite, you have to disable TRIM before an update. Given that this is an Apple-created mechanism for enabling TRIM, does it eliminate the need for the user to worry about disabling/enabling TRIM before/after updates?
 

crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,752
1,909
Charlotte, NC
Question: Does this permanently enable TRIM so that it never needs to be messed with again? With TRIM Enabler on Yosemite, you have to disable TRIM before an update. Given that this is an Apple-created mechanism for enabling TRIM, does it eliminate the need for the user to worry about disabling/enabling TRIM before/after updates?

There's no way to know this for sure until there are updates, and then again the final release. There is at least a 50/50 chance the setting will stick right through an update since it's Apple approved now, however only time will tell. You won't however need to disable the feature to install your updates since it has nothing to do with kext signing. My personal expectation is that you won't need to re-enable, but since it's so easy now, I don't really care if I do. The whole not booting thing should just be a brief memory here on out (I hope).
 
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