Element Vapor Case

[usmc1775]

my 2 cents

I certainly hope that I did not start a negative thread towards the Element company with my post. I really just wanted to get advice as to what to do with the product.

I can certainly say that before we all negatively bash this company try to do your best to put yourself in the shoes of a mom and pop operation with some very forward thinking designers. They probably had absolutely no idea that their product line would take off the way that it did. This being said, when I got on the pre-order list I was given a very logical explaination of the wait and the fact that they were retooling their operation to attempt to keep up with demand. This situation is an anomoly in business! Usually business grows gradually with their demand for the product. Anyone would kill to have a business like theirs. I am, and was happy to give them my business and although I have not dealt with them regarding my issues I am hoping they will make right on my issues. This is a very hard product to produce and the machining time must be very long. Keep in mind that if they had 10,000 or 100,000 back orders it would not make much sense for them to buy a hundred machines to do the work only to have half of them sit idol after they have caught up on their orders. If other people break into this market like they are trying to, the demand would drop even more and even more of the machines would sit idol. The machines that they must have are very highly precise and are not cheap and the resale of these machines is like 20 cents on the dollar (I know. I buy and sell them all the time). They would not dare and shouldn't buy used machines because they would have to spend time rebuilding them and production and the customers would suffer even more than they already are.

Please keep in mind that all manufacturers are in business to make money and if they have to delay production to maintain a high quality product line and still stay profitable than so be it. I would also add that if I were them I would no longer be taking any orders and be auctioning them off on ebay where I could easily triple my revenue (I'm Joking). Then I would only have to make a third of product quantity, reduce the number of employees and shipments, and still maintain the exact same income for my business.

If nothing more, it would seem that their prices are too low because they still can keep up with demand. I would definately raise my prices (not joking) gradually untill my product demand met what the production capabilities are. It is really simple business and we see it every day with the price of gasoline.

I wrote this with the utmost sense of charity towards Element and the community on this forum so please do not bash me for my views and oppinions. I really just hope that you all might get an alternate point of view from a manufacturing/ business standpoint.

Although I have a problem with the quality of just the finish of my case if they told me to stick it, I would still keep my case and oogle over the machine work every time I pick it up.

Element, if you read this, please keep up your high standards and please don't get complacent with your quality standards due to your high production rate. If you can't so this, just cut ties with this teeny tiny cell phone case market and go make $100,000 aircraft parts for Lockheed Martin's F-35 program. Your capabilities are certainly there and better than most other suppliers I have seen!

I know that you all are doing the very best you can so keep up the good work!

 

[usmc1775]

SGP Steinheil Ultra Matte ???

Thanks guys , for the kind words and support. My little rant there was the result of reading so many negative things about this company. I'm kinda torn because I love their creativity and product but I don't think it's cool that they forget that with out us, the consumers, they have no one to sell their cool cases too. If this level of service keeps up for a year I doubt they will be here to sell us something cool next year when we all buy our Iphone 5's. That would be a sad thing.

White/Rhino, can you tell us where you got the SGP Steinheil Ultra Matte protectors that you have on your site. Can you buy them locally at best buy or a place like that or do you have to buy them online?

 

[chris975d]

I certainly hope that I did not start a negative thread towards the Element company with my post. I really just wanted to get advice as to what to do with the product.

I can certainly say that before we all negatively bash this company try to do your best to put yourself in the shoes of a mom and pop operation with some very forward thinking designers. They probably had absolutely no idea that their product line would take off the way that it did. This being said, when I got on the pre-order list I was given a very logical explaination of the wait and the fact that they were retooling their operation to attempt to keep up with demand. This situation is an anomoly in business! Usually business grows gradually with their demand for the product. Anyone would kill to have a business like theirs. I am, and was happy to give them my business and although I have not dealt with them regarding my issues I am hoping they will make right on my issues. This is a very hard product to produce and the machining time must be very long. Keep in mind that if they had 10,000 or 100,000 back orders it would not make much sense for them to buy a hundred machines to do the work only to have half of them sit idol after they have caught up on their orders. If other people break into this market like they are trying to, the demand would drop even more and even more of the machines would sit idol. The machines that they must have are very highly precise and are not cheap and the resale of these machines is like 20 cents on the dollar (I know. I buy and sell them all the time). They would not dare and shouldn't buy used machines because they would have to spend time rebuilding them and production and the customers would suffer even more than they already are.

Please keep in mind that all manufacturers are in business to make money and if they have to delay production to maintain a high quality product line and still stay profitable than so be it. I would also add that if I were them I would no longer be taking any orders and be auctioning them off on ebay where I could easily triple my revenue (I'm Joking). Then I would only have to make a third of product quantity, reduce the number of employees and shipments, and still maintain the exact same income for my business.

If nothing more, it would seem that their prices are too low because they still can keep up with demand. I would definately raise my prices (not joking) gradually untill my product demand met what the production capabilities are. It is really simple business and we see it every day with the price of gasoline.

I wrote this with the utmost sense of charity towards Element and the community on this forum so please do not bash me for my views and oppinions. I really just hope that you all might get an alternate point of view from a manufacturing/ business standpoint.

Although I have a problem with the quality of just the finish of my case if they told me to stick it, I would still keep my case and oogle over the machine work every time I pick it up.

Element, if you read this, please keep up your high standards and please don't get complacent with your quality standards due to your high production rate. If you can't so this, just cut ties with this teeny tiny cell phone case market and go make $100,000 aircraft parts for Lockheed Martin's F-35 program. Your capabilities are certainly there and better than most other suppliers I have seen!

I know that you all are doing the very best you can so keep up the good work!

I really don't think that anyone has a problem with the demand situation that Element finds themselves in, or with the wait on their product. What most people seem to have an issue with is the way they treat and deal with (or don't deal with) their customers. It's us ("us" being the gadget/case whores of the world) that their product caters to (let's face it...99.9% of the iPhone owners out there won't pay $80 + for a cell phone case...I heard how stupid I was all the time the short time I had a Vapor), but yet they have very little to no communication with their customers, and almost seem to have a disdain for them and even dealing with them (as noted by the deletion of the owner's Facebook page, lack of answering emails, etc). They act as if they "don't want to be bothered" by offering customer service. THAT's what I (and I think most people) have an issue with. Be upfront and face your customers, and most of us will support you to the end. And I know how hard customer service is...I operate a business myself...a golf course, specifically. You want to talk about "entitled"/uppity customers....deal with golfers day in/day out. As a whole, probably one of the most demanding and self-centered customer groups out there. But golfers spend A LOT of money on their hobby, and expect to be treated like kings. So, if my employees and course don't satisfy their needs, or there's "too many people" on their golf course, I get to hear about it. But I can't duck my head and hide from them, I have to face them, talk with them, and assure them that their concerns and needs are important. This is in addition to all my other work that I have to do to operate the business. This is where I think Element gets a HUGE "F". If they can't handle/deal with the customers' voices/complaints/requests for information, they shouldn't be in a business dealing with the general public, and maybe should look at doing work for Lockheed or some company along those lines, and get out of the retail realm.

 

[glen e]

Not all of us had a problem.

ordered in late july - showed up in late aug when I expected it - notification sent 2 weeks prior that they were shipping.

Ordered frost model in early September - received last week , again with shipping notice via email

All packaging intact and product met expectations. My only gripe is carbon fiber insert looks very cheap compared to an SGP insert.

 

[usmc1775]

God Bless You!

I really don't think that anyone has a problem with the demand situation that Element finds themselves in, or with the wait on their product. What most people seem to have an issue with is the way they treat and deal with (or don't deal with) their customers. It's us ("us" being the gadget/case whores of the world) that their product caters to (let's face it...99.9% of the iPhone owners out there won't pay $80 + for a cell phone case...I heard how stupid I was all the time the short time I had a Vapor), but yet they have very little to no communication with their customers, and almost seem to have a disdain for them and even dealing with them (as noted by the deletion of the owner's Facebook page, lack of answering emails, etc). They act as if they "don't want to be bothered" by offering customer service. THAT's what I (and I think most people) have an issue with. Be upfront and face your customers, and most of us will support you to the end. And I know how hard customer service is...I operate a business myself...a golf course, specifically. You want to talk about "entitled"/uppity customers....deal with golfers day in/day out. As a whole, probably one of the most demanding and self-centered customer groups out there. But golfers spend A LOT of money on their hobby, and expect to be treated like kings. So, if my employees and course don't satisfy their needs, or there's "too many people" on their golf course, I get to hear about it. But I can't duck my head and hide from them, I have to face them, talk with them, and assure them that their concerns and needs are important. This is in addition to all my other work that I have to do to operate the business. This is where I think Element gets a HUGE "F". If they can't handle/deal with the customers' voices/complaints/requests for information, they shouldn't be in a business dealing with the general public, and maybe should look at doing work for Lockheed or some company along those lines, and get out of the retail realm.

God is going to have an especially nice place for you when you die! Haha. Your oppinion is held in especially high regard in my oppinion based on your background. I like to golf but could never deal with most of the people I run into on the course like you do on a day to day basis. I have not personally delt with them except in a couple emails asking the status of my order or when I can place my order, and both were answered politely. The one an only rebuttal that I have on your post is that you are able to face your customers in person and your customers face you. Basic communication is made through facial expression and non-verbal communication which can't be done via email. I/we often say things in emails to retailers that we would never say if we were in person. I am sure many of their email go something like this "what the heck, I paid $100!!! yeah a Hundred Bucks for a case that I pre-ordered 2 months ago! I want my freaking case now...or else." How is a retailer that is probably working around the clock supposed to respond to an email like this? Now if that same buyer walked into their operation and saw mountains of orders, half finished products in various stages of production, and a guy covered in aluminum chips that greated him at the door to answer his questions, I highly doubt the buyer would be so rude to them! This is a major problem with online businesses and what makes it a different way of communicating. Now imagine that the clientel (sp?) were ALL the same type of people that you deal with at the golf course...because they are the only ones that can buy an $80 case let alone a $600 cell phone. These are the people that Element has to deal with on a daily basis and the same ones that email one sentence emails that cut like a knife! I wish I could read a fist full of emails that they receive every day.

 

[Cynikal.Mindset]

...My only gripe is carbon fiber insert looks very cheap compared to an SGP insert.

Really? I think the real carbon plate looks better than the faux carbon skins from SGP, luckylabs etc but only when combined with the right case. Like with the bumper it looks amazing as the bumper wraps around it and makes it look like its part of the bumper itself

 

[chris975d]

God is going to have an especially nice place for you when you die! Haha. Your oppinion is held in especially high regard in my oppinion based on your background. I like to golf but could never deal with most of the people I run into on the course like you do on a day to day basis. I have not personally delt with them except in a couple emails asking the status of my order or when I can place my order, and both were answered politely. The one an only rebuttal that I have on your post is that you are able to face your customers in person and your customers face you. Basic communication is made through facial expression and non-verbal communication which can't be done via email. I/we often say things in emails to retailers that we would never say if we were in person. I am sure many of their email go something like this "what the heck, I paid $100!!! yeah a Hundred Bucks for a case that I pre-ordered 2 months ago! I want my freaking case now...or else." How is a retailer that is probably working around the clock supposed to respond to an email like this? Now if that same buyer walked into their operation and saw mountains of orders, half finished products in various stages of production, and a guy covered in aluminum chips that greated him at the door to answer his questions, I highly doubt the buyer would be so rude to them! This is a major problem with online businesses and what makes it a different way of communicating. Now imagine that the clientel (sp?) were ALL the same type of people that you deal with at the golf course...because they are the only ones that can buy an $80 case let alone a $600 cell phone. These are the people that Element has to deal with on a daily basis and the same ones that email one sentence emails that cut like a knife! I wish I could read a fist full of emails that they receive every day.

Oh, I'm sure I get some of the same type of customers that Element gets, and yes, they say these things to my face. I deal with this one almost daily: "I have golfers playing in front and back of me/my group! This course is too crowded!" Sir, of course you have golfers in front of you and back of you...it's a golf course. Tee times are 10 minutes apart, and as a business we can't afford to have just your foursome out here today. Or, another of my favorites: "The golf cart I'm in was already used today! I want one that hasn't been used today!" Sir, yes, your cart has been used by an earlier group today. I have 65 carts in my fleet, and on an average day I put 150+ rounds on the course, so many golf carts go out twice a day. But they are all pressure washed, wiped down, gas level checked, and dried off in between each round. Or members coming out to play as a two-some, but bringing their wives and kids along "just to ride and watch", but not wanting to pay for the extra carts they need, because "the riders aren't playing"! Not understanding that every cart I send out and capture no revenue for is also a paying customer I can't send out. I have to really bite my tongue when dealing with some customers, but my job is basically being the "face" and "voice" of the business (I get similar phone calls/emails), so I have to suck it up and do it. Element seems to dodge this for the most part. Yes, I get sick of it too sometimes, because no matter what you do or say, there are always unhappy customers. But I try to approach these customers as a challenge, and if I can talk to them in a manner that diffuses the situation/complaint, and they leave happy (especially when I don't have to "do" anything, but just use tact in giving them a response that satisfies them), I've accomplished my goal. This has gotten way off topic, but I think it applies to Element as well. Talk to and communicate with your customers, even when you don't have good news. In the end, they (most of them, anyway) will appreciate you for it, and continue to do business with you.

 

[usmc1775]

good leadership

Oh, I'm sure I get some of the same type of customers that Element gets, and yes, they say these things to my face. I deal with this one almost daily: "I have golfers playing in front and back of me/my group! This course is too crowded!" Sir, of course you have golfers in front of you and back of you...it's a golf course. Tee times are 10 minutes apart, and as a business we can't afford to have just your foursome out here today. Or, another of my favorites: "The golf cart I'm in was already used today! I want one that hasn't been used today!" Sir, yes, your cart has been used by an earlier group today. I have 65 carts in my fleet, and on an average day I put 150+ rounds on the course, so many golf carts go out twice a day. But they are all pressure washed, wiped down, gas level checked, and dried off in between each round. Or members coming out to play as a two-some, but bringing their wives and kids along "just to ride and watch", but not wanting to pay for the extra carts they need, because "the riders aren't playing"! Not understanding that every cart I send out and capture no revenue for is also a paying customer I can't send out. I have to really bite my tongue when dealing with some customers, but my job is basically being the "face" and "voice" of the business (I get similar phone calls/emails), so I have to suck it up and do it. Element seems to dodge this for the most part. Yes, I get sick of it too sometimes, because no matter what you do or say, there are always unhappy customers. But I try to approach these customers as a challenge, and if I can talk to them in a manner that diffuses the situation/complaint, and they leave happy (especially when I don't have to "do" anything, but just use tact in giving them a response that satisfies them), I've accomplished my goal. This has gotten way off topic, but I think it applies to Element as well. Talk to and communicate with your customers, even when you don't have good news. In the end, they (most of them, anyway) will appreciate you for it, and continue to do business with you.

obviously someone instilled good leadership qualities in you. I am the exact same why in dealing with everyone around me. There is never a time to gaf off your customers and never a time to lose your temper. I think what they might need is someone like you to run a customer support department so their good name is not tarnished due to the lack of a prompt, understanding, and respectful customer support department.

 

[White/Rhino]

White/Rhino, can you tell us where you got the SGP Steinheil Ultra Matte protectors that you have on your site. Can you buy them locally at best buy or a place like that or do you have to buy them online?

I found a very good Ebay seller who ships the product out right away from the US and they have been very good to deal with. I've placed about 8 or 9 different orders from them and all have show up quickly and just as described.
I have no hesitations recommending them.

arehttp://myworld.ebay.ca/unitedsgpcorp/

 

[White/Rhino]

Not all of us had a problem.

ordered in late july - showed up in late aug when I expected it - notification sent 2 weeks prior that they were shipping.

Ordered frost model in early September - received last week , again with shipping notice via email

All packaging intact and product met expectations. My only gripe is carbon fiber insert looks very cheap compared to an SGP insert.

Yeah, I remember gritting my teeth when I read your success story. lol ( I imagine many did, haha ) If all of us had received that kind of service there wouldn't be anything negative to say.
I have no intention on giving Element a hard time, life is to short to get stuck in that mind set. I even placed another order, ( mostly by accident ) and am now awaiting my cases or a Refund. In my email to them I said I am fine on what ever they wanted to do,it was my mistake after all. Once again, avoid shopping on your IPhone.
I would like to have the new Frost. I really like the finish.

 

[usmc1775]

Yeah, I remember gritting my teeth when I read your success story. lol ( I imagine many did, haha ) If all of us had received that kind of service there wouldn't be anything negative to say.
I have no intention on giving Element a hard time, life is to short to get stuck in that mind set. I even placed another order, ( mostly by accident ) and am now awaiting my cases or a Refund. In my email to them I said I am fine on what ever they wanted to do,it was my mistake after all. Once again, avoid shopping on your IPhone.
I would like to have the new Frost. I really like the finish.

Why don't you just get the case and sell it on ebay with a "buy it now" of $75,000. It should sell pretty quick. Thats a profit of $74,920 on one sale. Haha. In all sincerity, If you get it and dont want it just let me know and I would gladly give you what you purchased it for.

 

[granny shifter]

I really don't think that anyone has a problem with the demand situation that Element finds themselves in, or with the wait on their product. What most people seem to have an issue with is the way they treat and deal with (or don't deal with) their customers. It's us ("us" being the gadget/case whores of the world) that their product caters to (let's face it...99.9% of the iPhone owners out there won't pay $80 + for a cell phone case...I heard how stupid I was all the time the short time I had a Vapor), but yet they have very little to no communication with their customers, and almost seem to have a disdain for them and even dealing with them (as noted by the deletion of the owner's Facebook page, lack of answering emails, etc). They act as if they "don't want to be bothered" by offering customer service. THAT's what I (and I think most people) have an issue with. Be upfront and face your customers, and most of us will support you to the end. And I know how hard customer service is...I operate a business myself...a golf course, specifically. You want to talk about "entitled"/uppity customers....deal with golfers day in/day out. As a whole, probably one of the most demanding and self-centered customer groups out there. But golfers spend A LOT of money on their hobby, and expect to be treated like kings. So, if my employees and course don't satisfy their needs, or there's "too many people" on their golf course, I get to hear about it. But I can't duck my head and hide from them, I have to face them, talk with them, and assure them that their concerns and needs are important. This is in addition to all my other work that I have to do to operate the business. This is where I think Element gets a HUGE "F". If they can't handle/deal with the customers' voices/complaints/requests for information, they shouldn't be in a business dealing with the general public, and maybe should look at doing work for Lockheed or some company along those lines, and get out of the retail realm.

Unfortunately, there is such a high demand for their product. People are paying upward of $400.

 

[perplex]

Unfortunately, there is such a high demand for their product. People are paying upward of $400.

pretty much. and if a business is selling such a hot commodity....well..they can pretty much act how they want to and get away with it..

competition will straighten them out...but whos gonna step up first is the question.

 

[perplex]

My only gripe is carbon fiber insert looks very cheap compared to an SGP insert.

I agree. I had the lucky labs carbon texshure backing. When I saw the elementcase carbon backing...i said....ehhh nah -- and left the lucky labs on. Its really that good. plus i like to see my apple logo

 

[luisin]

Which is the best look for the carbon plate?

Lucky labs or SGP?

 

[beedish]

Just an update. I am sending my scratched/pitted anodized cap back today. After expressing my concern with ElementCase customer service about shipping costs, I was told I would be reimbursed for my shipping expenses after I provide the proof of receipt. They said it would take approximately 2-3 days to receive my new cap piece after they receive my damaged one. I hope to get it this week, but early next week more realistically. I'll keep you guys updated.

Oh, and I will be shipping with delivery confirmation. I suggest anyone sending items back do the same.

 

[macjonny1]

I am guessing that the folks at Element Case are just out of their league in terms of business skills. I'm sure they are getting thousands of emails and simply don't have the staff or finances to answer everyone's question. They are a small start-up company and simply can't deal with the demand and customer service needed. Not that it is an excuse...

 

[Dhelsdon]

They shouldn't have taken so many orders yet, if they can't meet the demand.

 

[bighabeeb]

Couldn't agree more. In addition it would be nice if, say, once a month they would send out a "Yes, you're actually on line to receive a case" message. At this point, I haven't heard from them in around 6 weeks...long enough that I begin to question if I'm still in the queue or not. Now, I've heard of enough people getting their stuff that I'll put my faith in their system...but generally speaking, just giving customers a little "touch base" is a good way to keep your customers content, if not happy.

I understand they're a start up, but even a start up can do a lot more with just a little bit of business acumen and/or common sense. If you can't ramp up your production, then do something else to give your clients the "warm and fuzzies".

They shouldn't have taken so many orders yet, if they can't meet the demand.

 

[macjonny1]

They shouldn't have taken so many orders yet, if they can't meet the demand.

They are running their business backwards. It seems they are taking peoples' money early and building up $$ and using that to fund their business. The proper way would be to have the capital first and then be able to ship orders as they come in.

 

[random person]

Well my saga with Element is finally over. After placing my order on july 4, putting me in group two, I waited six weeks. Five or six unanswered emails later, along with four phone calls telling me I would get my case in days, I still hadn't received anything. I then canceled my order and immediately got a status change to "refunded" -- except they hadn't issued a refund, just the email. I filed a paypal dispute, sent an email to the founder, etc., still nothing. Then I filed a chargeback via American express and now fully EIGHT weeks after placing and then canceling my order I finally have the dispute resolved in my favor.

I have never seen this level of brute incompetence -- even fraud -- from any other company, ever. This type of treatment on top of signal strength issues makes me seriously question why others are still ordering from them. They do not deserve our business.

 

[Cynikal.Mindset]

Well my saga with Element is finally over. After placing my order on july 4, putting me in group two, I waited six weeks. Five or six unanswered emails later, along with four phone calls telling me I would get my case in days, I still hadn't received anything. I then canceled my order and immediately got a status change to "refunded" -- except they hadn't issued a refund, just the email. I filed a paypal dispute, sent an email to the founder, etc., still nothing. Then I filed a chargeback via American express and now fully EIGHT weeks after placing and then canceling my order I finally have the dispute resolved in my favor.

I have never seen this level of brute incompetence -- even fraud -- from any other company, ever. This type of treatment on top of signal strength issues makes me seriously question why others are still ordering from them. They do not deserve our business.

besides the less than stellar service from them the cases they make are very nice, well machined and look great also, for many like myself there were no reception issues with any of the radios on my phone along with many others. In the end, they took care of me and gave me an added bonus of a free carbon back plate. So, the service may suck but the product doesn't; aside from the few that have had bad nickel plated version.

 

[macjonny1]

Order updated as SHIPPED for 2 "007" models, order date 9/23.

BTW I noticed I was only charged $99 each plus $10 ship. Did anyone else notice this or were you charged $119?

 

[AlexDB9]

Order updated as SHIPPED for 2 "007" models, order date 9/23.

Me too. Priority

 

[granny shifter]

Order updated as SHIPPED for 2 "007" models, order date 9/23.

BTW I noticed I was only charged $99 each plus $10 ship. Did anyone else notice this or were you charged $119?

Same here. I was also only charged $99 + $10 for shipping. Do they provide a tracking number?