Elizabeth Warren Outlines Right-To-Repair Legislation That Could Affect Apple's Products

[pbasmadj]

Nobody is forcing you do buy from these companies. Just exercise your right as a customer to choose instead of demanding legislation.

While I agree with you on that note in general, I think the comment is also leaving out the huge power imbalances present once a company reaches a tipping point of influence. Apple for instance is now deeply ingrained in society. While not totally invincible, these companies can and do make decisions are made that only add to that power and do not really help the customer, some worse than others. Is what it is, but also could be argued is a huge problem.

At the end of the day, though, I probably side with you on that I am not in favor of legislation, except in extreme cases where power is being blatantly abused.

 

[PastaPrimav]

Nobody is forcing you do buy from these companies. Just exercise your right as a customer to choose instead of demanding legislation.

Like a grown-up.

People that think this kind of legislation is good have not actualized yet.

 

[Jmausmuc]

His pos

His post is fiction. It makes no sense. Just a political view.

You guys make a great echo chamber - sad to see you not remembering what made America and Europe great in the first place. Entrepreneurial freedom.
The reason while I am sitting in a nice house with heated floors, 500MBIT Wi-Fi, great LTE coverage and nice Apple devices sourrounding me while having a good job is because the US gave us Germans capitalism after WW2. And I am thankful for it.
The benefits from free markets are not cherry picking. Either you have free business or you don't.

How many people do you think want to repair their own phone? 0.1%? There are third party repair shops where you can get you iPhone repaired with non-official parts if you want it cheap. There are Apple Stores and authorized repir shops that use original parts if you want to pay a little more.

What else could you possibley want?

A couple years back, Samsung phones had user-replaceable batteries - they don't anymore, because most people value thinness and design over repairablility. And this trend will continue. You yourselfs are fueling it by buying non user-repairable hardware while claiming you are being forced to do it.

In my opinion, a company can offer their phones the way it wants, if you don't like the way they let you repair your phone, buy something else.

 

[paul4339]

I can understand farm equipment... the average farmer can and do repair their equipment just as good as an authorized dealer most cases.

The avg consumer can and do replace their own home furnace filters. There's no need to create an artificial economy to gouge the consumer.

I don't understand precision electronics or fine equipment, like some consumer electronics... the average consumer can easily screw it up... then the questions and headaches comes to find out who's responsible for what, when the consumer brings in a botched self-repair job on a warrantied equipment.

 

[applesith]

Does she even know hoe modern consumer tech is built? Someone on her team should show her an iFixit guide.

 

[gixxerfool]

Although Warren's post focuses on agriculture, Motherboard points out that her legislation would impact American customers across the board, from farmers fixing tractors to an iPhone owner looking to fix their smartphone at a lower cost without breaking warranty.

Which part are you referring to? I'm not sure I see it. In any case, yes, this is a concern, but having worked for both Apple and a third party repair shop, a sloppy repair attempt is usually obvious. It wouldn't surprise me if a caveat of RTR is that user-caused damage during a repair would be grounds to void the warranty. But things like iPhone screens and batteries are relatively straightforward, provided you keep track of your screws.

This section here. I would hope so. This could otherwise be a big issue.

 

[Jmausmuc]

While I agree with you on that note in general, I think the comment is also leaving out the huge power imbalances present once a company reaches a tipping point of influence. Apple for instance is now deeply ingrained in society. While not totally invincible, these companies can and do make decisions are made that only add to that power and do not really help the customer, some worse than others. Is what it is, but also could be argued is a huge problem.

At the end of the day, though, I probably side with you on that I am not in favor of legislation, except in extreme cases where power is being blatantly abused.

I remeber when the iPhone 5 came out and I didn't like it because I felt the screen was too small. I just switched to Samsung for one generation (I regretted it, thought...). You usually always have an option the problem is usually that people don't want to give up certain things in order to be able to switch.

I am not a fan of amny things apple has been doing in recent years but overall, I still like their produts the best (excluding laptops, where I am no longer using Apple produts and don't regret the switch).

People who support this strike me as the kind of people who would like to keep everything the same (using Apple hardware) and want the government to force them to cange what they dislike.

 

[tevion5]

The fact that she wants to impose a national law says it all

That she wants to be President?

 

[Bryan Bowler]

We do not need a government that decides how big a business can or cannot be...and we do not need the government dictating how a private company should build and promote their products. No thank you.

 

[tevion5]

You people always imagine companies as some kind of dictators that can do how they please when they are in fact are constantly fighting for survival in the marketplace

Dude I love Apple, but you talk about multinational companies like a medieval surf talks about their lord.

Apple has around 200 Billion dollars in cash reserves alone. I think they're "surviving" alright.

 

[Jmausmuc]

That's not what I said, at all, and I see you have no answer for me. Have a nice day

Yea sure. Save the disrespectful emojis.

Ever seen the back of an Apple store. They have big expensive machines to do things like calibrating the screen in order to give you a quality repair. How are you going to do that on your own?

 

[JetTester]

Next, she'll want to legislate when Tim Cook can take a crap. This kind of micro-managing government control is the most dangerous thing that can happen in the US. I seriously hope her ideas don't gain any traction.

 

[cocky jeremy]

This is good. People who think this is "big control over people" see it the opposite for what it is; keeping companies from controlling our lives.

You can keep companies from controlling your life by not buying their products if there's something you don't like or agree with.

 

[Jmausmuc]

Dude I love Apple, but you talk about multinational companies like a medieval surf talks about their lord.

Apple has around 200 Billion dollars in cash reserves alone. I think they're "surviving" alright.

So? Right now they do. But it doesn't look like they are a big part of the cloud or AI revolution to me (I might be wrong, who knows) so we don't know where they will be in 10, 20, 30 years.
Nokia was also doing very great shorty before the iphone launched (https://nokiamob.net/2017/11/12/forbes-in-2007-can-anyone-catch-nokia/).

What exactly is your argument? Just because they have cash reservers they should be disadvantaged by law and be forced to offer all their spare parts for sale so people like you an me can attempt to repair our own phones?

 

[tevion5]

So? Right now they do. But it doesn't look like they are a big part of the cloud or AI revolution to me (I might be wrong, who knows) so we don't know where they will be in 10, 20, 30 years.
Nokia was also doing very great shorty before the iphone launched (https://nokiamob.net/2017/11/12/forbes-in-2007-can-anyone-catch-nokia/).

Apple is far more diversified than Nokia, and Nokia never had the reserves Apple does. No company ever has. They could potentially run at a loss for decades. They'll be fine.

Maybe? I think consumer protection in the US today sucks compared to EU standards. Lets keep it on the table at least. Americans shouldn't be so afraid to give massive companies some scrutiny now and then, the sky won't fall in.

 

[genovelle]

This is good. People who think this is "big control over people" see it the opposite for what it is; keeping companies from controlling our lives.

People have a choice. But something else. Why should a company be forced to undermine their quality and reputation by allowing shoddy businesses to claim they are repair shops of sophisticated electronic equipment that then cause other damage and potentially cost the manufacturer a customer because they recognize the problem was caused by another attempted repair. Customers don’t want to hear that.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

Yea sure. Save the disrespectful emojis.

Ever seen the back of an Apple store. They have big expensive machines to do things like calibrating the screen in order to give you a quality repair. How are you going to do that on your own?

I worked in the Apple Store, so yeah I have an idea And trust me, it's not all "big expensive machines".
[doublepost=1553706674][/doublepost]

Dude I love Apple, but you talk about multinational companies like a medieval surf talks about their lord.

Apple has around 200 Billion dollars in cash reserves alone. I think they're "surviving" alright.

Oh boy do I like this post.

 

[Jmausmuc]

Apple is far more diversified than Nokia, and Nokia never had the reserves Apple does. No company ever has. They could potentially run at a loss for decades. They'll be fine.

Maybe? I think consumer protection in the US today sucks compared to EU standards. Lets keep it on the table at least. Americans shouldn't be so afraid to give massive companies some scrutiny now and then, the sky won't fall in.

Why do you think America (the USA) has produced so many great tech companies in the recent 20-30 years while Europe hasn't?
Luck? Smarter people? Or could the differences in policy have something to do with it?
Try running a busniness in Europe - I whave tried in Germany - the regulations and laws are so comlicated and demanding, you would need at least 2 days a week or more just to deal with it.
America din't use to be like that but now they are getting closer.

Consnumer protection is alright but you also need to let companies thrive.

Nowhere does it state that this law will only apply to huge, successful companies like apple - you woudn't believe how much bad legistation like this done by people with no business experience hurts small businesses and large businesses alike

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

Next, she'll want to legislate when Tim Cook can take a crap. This kind of micro-managing government control is the most dangerous thing that can happen in the US. I seriously hope her ideas don't gain any traction.

The article doesn't even mention Apple.

 

[Jmausmuc]

I worked in the Apple Store, so yeah I have an idea And trust me, it's not all "big expensive machines".
[doublepost=1553706674][/doublepost]
Oh boy do I like this post.

There is no point in arguing, peope on the left and people on the right have one thing in common. They virtually never change their oppinions, especialy not after a public argument. The himan eg just won't allow it and also the whole world view is to different.

"I still feel that saying "have a nice day. " - in the way you did is bad manners and disrespectful and won't improofe your side of the argument. It should be possible to hold opposing views without getting on such a level.
Alos something I can observe in politial discussions in the USA - they seem to have gotten so much more disrepectful recently and I don't think its just Trumps fault.

 

[applesith]

Nowhere does it state that this law will only apply to huge, successful companies like apple - you woudn't believe how much bad legistation like this done by people with no business experience hurts small businesses and large businesses alike

That's exactly another huge problem with these proposals of control that are attempted to be hidden in "good for the average middle class person" smoke. God forbid something like Warren is proposing is enacted, Apple and big tech will find a way to make it work because they have the means to. This will really hurt small and medium tech companies and stifle tech startups. When enacted, this goes against the exact thing it was claiming to do. That's why it's all smoke and mirrors- anyone with half a brain can see this is just a power grab for more laws and restrictions.

 

[uwdude]

Well the problem with the "just take it to a third party, you can always do that" thinking, is that in a lot of cases that just isn't possible anymore. There are some chips in these devices that Apple will not allow into the supply chain, and thus you cannot obtain that chip at any price, EVEN IF you are an Apple Authorized repairer. The Apple Authorized repairers are only allowed to do certain things, like replacing the whole board, or the whole display, etc. They are not actually repairing boards. So if one little chip goes bad, like what is happening on some macbooks, and all it would take is soldering on a new one, that currently cannot be done by either a third party or an Apple Authorized repairer. Apple wants only their repairer to replace the whole board. So the situation is a little more than what people think, and I think something will have to be done if other companies also do this in the name of profit. We should vote with our dollars though too.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

I haven't read her post so I'm just speaking in general terms about this issue overall. I don't sit firmly in one camp or the other. For small consumer electronics I don't like it and I think it's unnecessary. I agree with the position that some aspects of a modern mobile device are integral to its security (those that are in the pipeline for the secure enclave for example) and the companies producing them should be able to put reasonable restriction in place to product that security. Despite these reasonable restrictions there's a thriving third party market for mobile phone repair (iFixit and thousands of local repair shops). For other situations - such as a farmer investing in a tractor he intends to use over at a minimum five years and probably many more - I think the idea of the manufacturer selling him a license for the very necessary software to control that device that he ostensibly owns is a very slippery slope. There could be room for some regulation or legislation but I would want it to be very narrow in scope. My suspicion is that Senator Warren and I would differ on that last count (I'll have to read her post later when I have more time).
[doublepost=1553707305][/doublepost]

That's exactly another huge problem with these proposals of control that are attempted to be hidden in "good for the average middle class person" smoke. God forbid something like Warren is proposing is enacted, Apple and big tech will find a way to make it work because they have the means to. This will really hurt small and medium tech companies and stifle tech startups. When enacted, this goes against the exact thing it was claiming to do. That's why it's all smoke and mirrors- anyone with half a brain can see this will only help big tech like Apple in the end.

Large organizations often embrace regulation as it does become a barrier to entry for their competition. Legislation often takes steps to avoid that though by places gates around the size of organization laws and regulations apply to. The difficult bit is tuning the gates properly.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

There is no point in arguing, peope on the left and people on the right have one thing in common. They virtually never change their oppinions, especialy not after a public argument. The himan eg just won't allow it and also the whole world view is to different.

"I still feel that saying "have a nice day. " - in the way you did is bad manners and disrespectful and won't improofe your side of the argument. It should be possible to hold opposing views without getting on such a level.
Alos something I can observe in politial discussions in the USA - they seem to have gotten so much more disrepectful recently and I don't think its just Trumps fault.

Click the little exclamation mark to report my impolite post to the mods.

 

[PastaPrimav]

You can keep companies from controlling your life by not buying their products if there's something you don't like or agree with.

Instead he wants to keep buying those products, not have to make any tough decisions or take any stands himself, and have someone else force them to do things differently.