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Back to the looks thing

I'd like to get back to a previous post that someone made. What is up with the two different version of the eMac posted on Apple's site?

http://www.apple.com/education/emac/specs.html

http://www.apple.com/education/emac/learning.html

This is very strange, and sloppy of Apple. I don't see the capped-speaker version anywhere on the site, nor an explanation of it. It sounds as though some of the education people on the forum would prefer the capped-speakers to prevent damage....I wonder if Apple is offering clip on speaker grills?

Also of note - when you buy the eMacs as in Institution, you have your choice of Mac OS9 or X.

I don't mind the way the machine looks - it is very appropriate for the classroom. I kind of like the cute, squareness of it from the front.

What I do hate though is the font that Apple is using on their website. It seems very strange that they would not use their standard (and beautiful) Apple Garamond. It's bad and confusing branding.

Thats what I think.

Joe
 
Hmmm

Originally posted by OSeXy!
Ives' stuff always seems to look better in person. I'm waiting to see one before I judge. (From the photos I think the stand helps its looks).

Strange resolution, 1280x960 - true 4:3, just like 640x480, scaled up. Normally monitors go for 1280x1024 or 5:4 at this res. Wonder why this is?
I would guess that at 1280x1024, the refresh rate would be too low and would cause massive seizure attacks among the 2nd grade population.

As it is, the 1280x960 resolution is at 80hz.
 
Originally posted by CHess

With the G4 and the GeForce 2 video and larger display area, do you think this will eat into LCD iMac sales at all?

I highly doubt it. It was designed specifically for education. Only a handful of consumers, mainly students, will be able to get their hands on one of these. It's not really oriented to be a gaming machine or a computer for homes, though with the hardware it has, it could easily do both.

I think this is an attempt for Apple (which this may be an obvious statement) to regain its share in the education industry, as it has been decreasing in recent years. And it's a darn good one at that!

How bout that neat Airport Card slot above the CD drive? I like that! :D
 
Re: Back to the looks thing

Originally posted by lem0nayde
Also of note - when you buy the eMacs as in Institution, you have your choice of Mac OS9 or X.

from what i could tell, you get both, and i guess that by selecting the one or the other, you are choosing which is the default when you get the computer. seems a bit weird, but i could see some people not wanting to deal with having their comp come starting with x default if they're still hung up in 9.

i just took a look at the emac tech specs. it has the configuration numbers and they say "mac os x startup" and "mac os 9 startup" and have the numbers for the 2 models under each. and then with system software it says 10.1 and 9.2 take a look...

http://www.apple.com/education/emac/specs.html
 
i definitely thing it looks good.

but then again, the lcd imac blew me away... the first time i saw it was via a slow dial up on a pc (in africa of all places) and the little animated gif of the monitor moving just showed up as a ghosted image with the movement seeming like a trail of some sort...

all in all, seems like it'll be good. the 2 different versions look interesting though... the speaker caps and no speaker caps that is...
 
800 GHZ!

From the excite news article on the new eMac:

A DVD drive is available on the more expensive eMac.

Apple has seen its share of new sales in the education market decline in recent years, according to the research firm IDC.

In the fourth quarter, Apple's share fell 20 percent to 14.7 percent. Dell Computer Corp., meanwhile, saw its share increase from 36.8 percent in the third quarter to 39 percent in the fourth.

Also Monday, Apple unveiled a new line of Titanium PowerBook laptops, with faster processors, a new high-resolution display and built-in Gigabit networking capabilities.

*The top-of-the-line Titanium, with an 800 GHz processor, is priced at $3,199. A 667-MHz version runs $2,499. *

Wow! Apple really did make a leap forward! LOL:D

Gus
 
Well I thought they would never make a 17" crt. I even posted often on how this wouldn't happen.

Guess I have to eat my words. With one cavet. I said that they wouldn't do it because it wouldn't have a good form factor. And I may still be right on that, It looks bulky and a bit ugly. More like a PC manufacturer using the new snow look of apple.

But that said, education does not care about how a computer looks. They want functionality and this machine has it.

G4, small footprint, more affordable than the LCD. Lots of input and output jacks.

BTW THANKYOU APPLE for putting the mike jack back. I had to shell out money for an iMic becuase the mike jack has been missing for the last couple of years.

All and all. I think this was a good move at a good time for a good market segment. ....even though I said it wouldn't happen :)
 
Late may?

So, do we really think these things are going to ship in late may?
I think I'm going to get one, but I have a few questions:

Is 10.2 going to come out before they ship? Could that be what they're waiting for to ship them?

Does anybody know if the RAM is user upgradable? I hate paying so much for Apple ram.

If the RAM is upgradable, would it be the same RAM as in an iceBook?

Does anybody want to buy an iceBook? Practically new! ;)

This thing may be a little ugly, but it just makes sense to me. And does anybody else out there like CRTs better than LCDs sometimes? Especially for movies, games, photoshop... pretty much anything but typing and web browsing?

Yay college. :D
 
Originally posted by CHess


So, one thing I noticed is the lack of vents on the top. The only thing that looks like a vent is the ring on the back (which looks like it should start spinning like a big turbo-fan engine when you turn the computer on). Does anyone know about the internal fan situation? Just curious.

hey mate, that eMac comes with an LCD screen, not an overheating CRT ... so if they could do the original imac without fan, they shure will with this baby too ...:D
 
Originally posted by evanmarx


hey mate, that eMac comes with an LCD screen, not an overheating CRT ... so if they could do the original imac without fan, they shure will with this baby too ...:D

Umm.. no. Both sentences in there are wrong in one way or another... It has a CRT, not an LCD. And second, the original iMac did indeed have a fan.
 
Re: Hey people be honest!!!!!!

Originally posted by mymemory
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
The damn thing is ugly as hell!!!!!
yup
where's handle? How are you supposed to carry it around easy? Don't you think that those speakers would be poked and busted on the first day? They should have put more thought into it. It is one of the ugliest computers that I have seen.:(

But the 999 price tag is sweet:) The first G4 machine under $1000. If the G4 is now used for education, and almost all of their computers, the G5 has to come out at MWNY 2002.
 
Originally posted by Buggy
I said that they wouldn't do it because it wouldn't have a good form factor. And I may still be right on that, It looks bulky and a bit ugly. More like a PC manufacturer using the new snow look of apple.

As far as the form factor goes, it's pretty much the same, although the shape has changed somewhat. The eMac is 0.8 inch taller and 0.8 inch wider, to accomodate the bigger screen size, but the depth stays the same.

I would argue the new 'look' of the eMac has more to do with making it stylistically consistent with Apple's new computers, which have much more of a minimalist look than the earlier iMacs. The geometry of the eMac is simpler and more orthogonal than the CRT iMacs.
 
It's not very pretty, but at least now we know what Apple did with all those unused Studio Displays laying around...
 
eMac, why???

Before I rant, you might be interested to know where I was when I learned the news of the eMac and updated Powerbook. I was at CompUSA to get assistance with upgrading my WinDOZE2K machine (new hard drive). I was actively fantasizing in the Apple Store there playing with Internet Explorer on a PowerMac with a 17" (?) flat screen display. Ran up Macrumors and there were all these listings of eMac and updated Powerbooks. Lots of iMac boxes stacked around the store, BTW.

Well now, so we have a 17" CRT iMac, christened the eMac. Why?

First, however, the fact that this is only available via the education store is a very important point. I didn't see it on the regular Apple store so posts to the effect otherwise puzzle me. maybe I skimmed through them to quickly. If it is/will be available to the general market, then I would think that it would induce product line dissonance.

So, why did Apple do this? Did Apple determine via a statistically significant quantitative market research methodology to identify this demand? Based on past experience with Apple, NEVER make that assumption!

Speculating:
* education administrators much prefer all-in-one offerings
- external monitors represent too much headache??
* iMac's presumed too vulnerable (someone else posted this)
* new iMac too luxurious (perception matters to decision-makers)
* want more display real estate than new or old iMac but don't want to go with low-end PowerMacs (why?, how much are low-end PowerMacs to the education market?)
* Apple wants to demonstrate special committment to education market
* eMac may be from a left-over alternative iMac product that was canned when the LCD iMac won an internal design selection process over a 17" CRT iMac
* outsourced manufacturing of eMac and other units has become so extensive that Apple doesn't suffer from diminished margins or increased costs due to multiple product lines as much as it would if manufactured in-house

Okay, you probably gather that I'm not excited about the eMac. At 35, I'll never be a student again, he says while knocking on wood. More so however, from a marketing standpoint, I simply question this. In trying to understand though, I listed the points above. Maybe you all can help me understand the marketing benefits to this new product line (albeit it is extremely similar to the iMac so operationally it shouldn't be a terrible burden).

Well, I've got two other major points to make so I'll start another two posts.

Eirik
 
About the different speakers and/or speaker caps. I have heard complaints from people at universities about the quicksilver G4 speakers for an educational setting. If apple did listen to educators this could have been a complaint/request about speakers. In the quicksilvers and pro speakers, it is very easy to jam something in the speaker, a major problem for a computer lab setting. It seems possible that apple would include speaker caps, however it seems these could be removed quite easily and also be very tacky, not to mention possible decreasing sound quality.
 
iBrick for the low-end consumers

Some readers will recognize the iBrick from my previous posts sometime ago.

This is where I think there is a major gap in Apple's overall product line.

Product__________________Price________________Arch_________________Target_Market
????_______________________$499_______________xt mon_______________converts, lw-end consumers, nth PC
old iMac_________________$799_______________all-in-1_____________mid-low end consumers, nth PC
old iMac_________________$999_______________all-in-1_____________mid-low end consumers, nth PC
iMac_______________________$1399_____________all-in-1_____________upper low-end consumers, nth PC
iMac_______________________$1599_____________all-in-1_____________upper low-end consumers
iMac_______________________$1899_____________all-in-1_____________yuppy, top of low-end consumers
PowerMac______________$1599_____________open_________________low-end pro, PC proficient, upgraders
PowerMac______________$2299_____________open_________________low-end pro, PC proficient, upgraders
PowerMac______________$2999_____________open_________________low-end pro, PC proficient, upgraders
PowerMac______________$3849_____________open_________________low-end pro, PC proficient, upgraders


Maybe I should've made an attachment so I could be more precise in constructing a product position table. Oh well!

???? = iBrick {not a name that should be used in mkt}

I'd of called the old iMac, and for that matter all iMac, converts (a low-cost means for WinDOZE users to experience a Mac so that Apple can set-the-hook), however, the iBrick does this more so than the others from a pricing/cost perspective.

The old iMac forces converts to employ a 15" CRT. I'm not alone in not wanting a 15" CRT. Senior citizens prefer more real estate for bigger text.

The new iMac converts WinDOZE users with STYLE, but at a price. An LCD WinDOZE computer offers more options and will be increasingly cheaper in upfront costs as well as 3rd party software costs. Remember, a learning curve is a cost! So, undoubtedly, the new iMac is and will continue to convert WinDOZE users but it will only tend to convert the less price sensitive of the bunch.

Many people have 15", 17", 19", and even 21" CRT's lying around or readily available, or simply cheap to purchase. Can/would these users leverage these existing assets with a new or old iMac? Don't think so!

For those that, at the least in terms of feature flexibility, want to leverage their existing monitors, must buy a low-end PowerMac at $1599, at the cheapest. Or, they can buy something used.

There are millions of potential low-end consumers that Apple would have a much better chance of capturing with a low-end, "headless" iMac, or iBrick.

Most of these people have no need for feature upgrades such as additional internal hard drives or optical drives. With Firewire or USB 2.0, external hard drives compete speed-wise with internal EIDE ATA/100/133 internal hard drives.

These consumers have limited need for increased RAM or any other feature enhancements. Most likely upgrades/additions for these users are handled nicely with USB and Firewire.

Bear in mind that CRT's are commodities. There is very little margin to be gained from their sale. So, Apple should veer away from them.

I expect that the eMac will have a razaor thin margin relative to other Apple products. Its CRT doesn't help; it hurts the margin. I suspect that the eMac represents an aggressive market share defensive product positioning adjustment as well as a means to shore up revenues and market share. These two figures tend to have more influence on stock price than they really should.

So, what is the iBrick? It would be no larger than the Cube, smaller would be better. It would have much less STYLE. Its features would have to be aligned with those of the continued old iMac line, which determines CPU selection. It would feature a relatively small (cheap) 5400 rpm EIDE hard drive, a low-end CD-ROM (possibly a CD-RW option; speed not as important as cost), same RAM and motherboard is old iMac, same number of USB and Firewire ports as old iMac (more would be nicer, however), a VGA port, and a low-end video card (sorry gamers!). The target price would be $499 with a margin comparable to that of the old iMac or higher. I'm not sure about an Airport antennae or some kind of a cheap peripheral to do the same via Firewire or USB. Oh yeah, the power supply might be external like a notebook computer.

Again, the iBrick would be a low-profile unit. It might even be designed to sit on top of a CRT or hand from its side.

Interestingly, at the risk of being too STYLISH, I would be interested in the practicallity of a form factor that would feature a body with four malluable legs, rear legs longer than front legs. It might be called Bullfrog!!! Depending upon costs, I'd make it as compact as practical. The body might be 7" wide, 8" deep (front to back), and 3" or 4" thick. The body would be rounded and rubbery, like the original iBook.

The legs wouldn't necessarily have any functionality other than as well, legs. Their feet would be just soft enough so that they'd be kind of sticky so they could sit on top of a CRT with cables pulling at it without falling off (this is why it has longer real legs). There would be holes or attachment mechanism around ankle level so that one could employ some simply means to hang the Bullfrog on the side of their monitor.

Okay, maybe the Bullfrog form factor might be too costly for the target market and Apple would just have to settle for something a little more stylish and functional than a brick.

Well, that's my view of Apple's product positioning in a little more than a nutshell.

Eirik
 
eMac and G5?

I find the clockspeed of the eMac a little interesting in regards to the dreamed of G5. At 700 MHz, just below the new iMac, and no announced change of the old iMac converting to G4's, what might this mean?

Come to think of it, I'll cut this post short and check for another thread on the G5 first.

Eirik
 
not eating shoe

i thank those of you who have provided the semantic differentiation (imac and emac) which has allowed me to avoid eating my shoe. it is coming up to winter in melbourne, and i can't afford new shoes if i want that TiBook...
 
Re: not eating shoe

Originally posted by Macette
i thank those of you who have provided the semantic differentiation (imac and emac) which has allowed me to avoid eating my shoe. it is coming up to winter in melbourne, and i can't afford new shoes if i want that TiBook...

you're right it's bl**dy cold in melbourne right now

during the course of the day i've decided that this machine blows all the older imacs out of the water. it is a graceful, understated and functional workhorse.
i hope the education market embraces it with open arms.

what seems to be optional speaker grids is a perfect compromise between style and function.

my only complaint is that it doesn't have a slot loading optical drive and not enough ram (surprise surprise)

oh and i haven't got one, but i do work for a university so you never know
 
crushing deaths imminent

Weighing in at 50 pounds, how long before a first grader pulls this thing of the desk and is crushed?
No handles?-You'll need a hand truck or a diet supplemented with anabolic steroids to move this thing.
Can't somebody, if not Apple, make a lighter CRT?
 
Re: crushing deaths imminent

Originally posted by macosaurusrex
Weighing in at 50 pounds, how long before a first grader pulls this thing of the desk and is crushed?
No handles?-You'll need a hand truck or a diet supplemented with anabolic steroids to move this thing.
Can't somebody, if not Apple, make a lighter CRT?
Chances are that they'll be locked down to the table. I'm suprised that Apple hadn't thought of making a more "durable" version of the LCD iMac for schools instead. If the "grubby" fingers of a 1st grader poking at the LCD screen was the most pressing issue, they could have easily put a thin piece of glass over the LCD. Some Sony LCD screen have this (for the pen operated Vaios).

Well, the new enclosure is pretty snazzy. If they put in a 800mhz and a SuperDrive, I'd be going back to school for a semester.
 
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