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eMac G5 put on hold. G4 model back in production
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I believe the iMac and eMac lines are going to be one. what makes me say this, well when prices of the lcd drop even more Apple is going to use the acetate to cover the lcd screen. That way the EDU market and children in general even though they try to poke the screen no harm will be done since the lcd is protected by the acetate.
If you look at the current iMac G5 line it leaves it open for this implementation. That said we might not need a CRT based eMac line. Back to Simplicity in the line.
mini and iPod
iBook and PowerBooks
iMac and PowerMac
XServer
The mini rev B should just have a larger 1.0" HDD and a SD flash slot or SD mini. No more complaints
Same with the iPod a SD and SD mini slot.
Once those 0.85" HDD are in larger numbers and larger disk size then the 1.0 can either be replaced or make its way to the iPod once the disk size is large enough.
If you look at the current iMac G5 line it leaves it open for this implementation. That said we might not need a CRT based eMac line. Back to Simplicity in the line.
mini and iPod
iBook and PowerBooks
iMac and PowerMac
XServer
The mini rev B should just have a larger 1.0" HDD and a SD flash slot or SD mini. No more complaints
Same with the iPod a SD and SD mini slot.
Once those 0.85" HDD are in larger numbers and larger disk size then the 1.0 can either be replaced or make its way to the iPod once the disk size is large enough.
m a y a said:
Whilst I agree the emac will one day get an LCD, I for one think a keeping a cheaper cut down eMac line is a good idea. I suppose a 15" LCD iMac could in effect be the next form factor rev of the eMac bluring the lines...unless they go colour or something...
The mini rev B should just have a larger 1.0" HDD and a SD flash slot or SD mini. No more complaints
Same with the iPod a SD and SD mini slot.
Once those 0.85" HDD are in larger numbers and larger disk size then the 1.0 can either be replaced or make its way to the iPod once the disk size is large enough.
SD slot would be very attractive to give expandability and swapability as card prices tumble...
Any particular reason you chose SD and not CF or one of the other removable card technologies?m a y a said:I believe the iMac and eMac lines are going to be one. what makes me say this, well when prices of the lcd drop even more Apple is going to use the acetate to cover the lcd screen. That way the EDU market and children in general even though they try to poke the screen no harm will be done since the lcd is protected by the acetate.
If you look at the current iMac G5 line it leaves it open for this implementation. That said we might not need a CRT based eMac line. Back to Simplicity in the line.
mini and iPod
iBook and PowerBooks
iMac and PowerMac
XServer
The mini rev B should just have a larger 1.0" HDD and a SD flash slot or SD mini. No more complaints
Same with the iPod a SD and SD mini slot.
Once those 0.85" HDD are in larger numbers and larger disk size then the 1.0 can either be replaced or make its way to the iPod once the disk size is large enough.
wrldwzrd89 said:
Read up and compare the various flash based technology:
xD
SD
SD mini
Compact Flash Type I
Compact Flash Type II
Multi Media Cards (MMC)
Memory Stick
You will see that SD and SD mini have advanced at a rapid rate, drop in prices, many more applications, more reliable, faster read and write time.
SD mini can use an adapter to be used in SD slots. Plus mobile phones are already experimenting with SD mini. Only draw back its tiny and some people are not articulate with handling tiny thing.
aswitcher said:
The current iMac G5 line already leave room so the LCD display is not going to be poked. a 15 inch would make sense for EDU consumers. At least with the lack of an eMac line they can reduce cost and bring more feature rich to the line and cost will no doubt drop as the iMac G5 line matures.
Again we do not know how much Apple pays for they LCD's at each size so it could be done without the added cost of adding another product like the eMac to the production line.
aswitcher said:
Glad we agree on this, since SD is taking form and being accepted at a much faster rate even though CF has been in the market longer. Still love SD technology and the prices cannot be beat. It also opens the mini and iPod to the digital cameras and mobile phones.
Plus it could give the option of turning the HDD off and extending the play back life by only playing the flash media. Also cutting cost in having a whole new flash iPod.
Seems Apple is getting sloppy.
A lot of this thread seemed to collapse into the old Mac vs Dell price debate.
I for one, do not think Apple is some charity that I'll happily pay through the nose to buy a computer for. First of all, I think most of Apple's computers (all except the Power Macs to be honest, just because they get so much more expensive) are fairly well priced - the iBook and eMac are the best value I think. In Britain, the eMac low end is currently £549 and it compares favourably still to a low end Dell system that is roughly the same price. The only PCs I've seen cheaper than around £500 are those crappy eMachines things that come with some 1.5GHz Celeron and a CD ROM drive - i.e. crappity crap crap crap.
I'm not defending anything Apple does and I know that they could improve some of the specs in certain areas on their machines - RAM more than anything! But I do not think the competition is much better when you compare like for like. And the bottom line for me is that Apples run Mac OS X. I've got sick to death of all our Windows XP problems on our Dell and I'd happily go back to Win 98 and the blue screen of death! But luckily I don't have to, thanks to my PowerBook, which actually works like I need it to 99.9% of the time.
A G5 eMac would be really good for Apple, and I'm sure we'll see a slight price drop to accompany that too, even though I still think that the current 1.25GHz G4 system would have done my parents better than our current Dell.
I for one, do not think Apple is some charity that I'll happily pay through the nose to buy a computer for. First of all, I think most of Apple's computers (all except the Power Macs to be honest, just because they get so much more expensive) are fairly well priced - the iBook and eMac are the best value I think. In Britain, the eMac low end is currently £549 and it compares favourably still to a low end Dell system that is roughly the same price. The only PCs I've seen cheaper than around £500 are those crappy eMachines things that come with some 1.5GHz Celeron and a CD ROM drive - i.e. crappity crap crap crap.
I'm not defending anything Apple does and I know that they could improve some of the specs in certain areas on their machines - RAM more than anything! But I do not think the competition is much better when you compare like for like. And the bottom line for me is that Apples run Mac OS X. I've got sick to death of all our Windows XP problems on our Dell and I'd happily go back to Win 98 and the blue screen of death! But luckily I don't have to, thanks to my PowerBook, which actually works like I need it to 99.9% of the time.
A G5 eMac would be really good for Apple, and I'm sure we'll see a slight price drop to accompany that too, even though I still think that the current 1.25GHz G4 system would have done my parents better than our current Dell.
2 cents
Personally, I think the emac does fill an important niche. There is certainly a place for an all-in-one low end computer. However, as cool as an integrated LCD monitor is on the imacs, I'd much prefer that they cut the price by $500 or whatever the various LCD's cost (20" LCD's are usually more expensive than that if you buy one separately regardless of maker) and leave it out so I could either use an older monitor I have laying around, or buy whatever size LCD monitor I could afford. I was really rather sad when the Cube went away. Maybe Apple was ahead of it's time. If you go to Best Buy or somewhere like that and browse the PC's you will likely find a PC or two that is oddly cube-like in size.
As far as Dell goes, the Navy has a lot of Dell computers. The ones we have are fairly new laptops (not sure which model off the top of my head). It is considered very unwise to save anything on the harddrive as they are known to regularly crap themselves (and thus causing loss of everything you had saved).
I'll take just about any Apple computer right now. Anything is an upgrade from my original bondi-blue imac. When I bought it I upgraded the ram to 64mb. It has a 4GB hard drive. And no, I didn't miss a zero there. It's worked well (if slowly nowdays) for the last 6 years or so. I think it's time to upgrade. Of course... this was an upgrade from my powerbook duo...
Personally, I think the emac does fill an important niche. There is certainly a place for an all-in-one low end computer. However, as cool as an integrated LCD monitor is on the imacs, I'd much prefer that they cut the price by $500 or whatever the various LCD's cost (20" LCD's are usually more expensive than that if you buy one separately regardless of maker) and leave it out so I could either use an older monitor I have laying around, or buy whatever size LCD monitor I could afford. I was really rather sad when the Cube went away. Maybe Apple was ahead of it's time. If you go to Best Buy or somewhere like that and browse the PC's you will likely find a PC or two that is oddly cube-like in size.
As far as Dell goes, the Navy has a lot of Dell computers. The ones we have are fairly new laptops (not sure which model off the top of my head). It is considered very unwise to save anything on the harddrive as they are known to regularly crap themselves (and thus causing loss of everything you had saved).
I'll take just about any Apple computer right now. Anything is an upgrade from my original bondi-blue imac. When I bought it I upgraded the ram to 64mb. It has a 4GB hard drive. And no, I didn't miss a zero there. It's worked well (if slowly nowdays) for the last 6 years or so. I think it's time to upgrade. Of course... this was an upgrade from my powerbook duo...
Boy, did you ever jump generations. You completely bypassed the G1 and G2 eras of PowerPC, going straight from a 68k Mac to a G3 Mac. You're probably going to do it again - skipping G4 entirely and going straight to G5 with your next Mac.SilentBen said:
mcarnes said:
Better yet, convert the eMac into the orginal iMac, with colors and everything! Put a G5 in it, watch it sell like hotcakes! I for one would love to own a G5 original iMac, in lime!
Why did Apple get rid of the original iMac? Those computers are still popular, at least with marketing folks of clothing, furniture, and other companies as I often notice in print ads. I still love my G3 iMac, running 10.3.5 with 586mb of RAM.
The PowerMac G5 does not have an external PSU, neither did the PowerMac G4 models. What are you referring to?m a y a said:Sushi, you have misread what I have said. I have stated to use a similar if not the same design for an external PSU for the iMac G5 as they have with the PowerMac, iPod, PowerBook, iBook products. And not that they have to use the exact same one. I also fail to see why it should be thicker than the PowerMac adapter, more along the lines of the PowerBook size should be about right.
Maybe I wasn't clear. A current fact of life is that desktop models draw(need) more power than iPod, iBook or PowerBook models. These devices draw less power which allows Apple to go to the small white brick concept. The white power bricks trickle energy to their respective devices.
I used to think that there was no difference with regards to LCD backlighting until I got a TAM a few years ago. The same thing holds true today. An iMac G5 17 inch display is a lot brighter than a PowerBook 17 inch display. Why, because the iMac has unlimited power to drive the backlighting where as the PowerBook must conserve energy because it operates on batteries.
No! A laptop is not considered an all-in-one device. It is a laptop.m a y a said:
An all-in-one design refers to a desktop system.
While there is no rule, Apple's design concepts as shown with the original Mac up through the MacSE/30, and then with the iMac and it's various versions not including the iMac G4 (flower pot/swing arm version), indicate that they include the powersupply and speakers in their all-in-one products.m a y a said:Besides there is no such rule that defines and states that an All-In-One needs to have its power supply included in the case. The concern of added heat and weight is the issue. Form and Function comes first. That is the first thing you learn in design classes.
In fact, I know a few purists that did not purchase the iMac G4 because the speakers were external -- hense not truly an all-in-one design concept.
The iMac G5 follows Apple's all-in-one concept as well as the eMac for that matter. I am glad to see it.
I am sure that Apple will have some revisions in the future. They already do. Look at the original iMac line. It changed dramatically over the years (especially on the inside).m a y a said:I hope they do improve the iMac G5 design by making it more snug fitting to the screen (which is beautiful by the way), loose some weight (for easier transporting), something about the heat issues, and the speakers that sound horrid ( I liked the speakers that the iMac G4 had). And please a better keyboard with a shorter stroke distance.
I agree that it would be nice to see less space around the display. I imagine that cooling issues have something to do with the larger size.
For many folks, the iMac G5 speakers are good enough. Especially for an all-in-one design. And for those of you who like more robust sound, you can always add the speakers of your choice.
Sushi
I think that Apple should upgrade whichever product they are able to upgrade, as soon as they can. If that means the eMac goes G5 before the PowerBook, so be it. Not my preference, but they surely sell far more eMacs than PowerBooks.
Peronally, I'm set with my 1.33 G4 PB for a couple of years. The only computer we are likely to replace in the next two years is the iMac G4 800. I'll either go with the fastest iMac available, or a PowerMac and a Cinema display (particularly if they drop the 20" down to a more competitive $899 or so). Other than that, our daughter graduates from high school in spring 2006, and we will get her her choice of laptops to go to college with. At the moment, she likes Macs, but that changes like the wind these days. I figure the G5 ought to at least be in the PowerBook line by then, maybe even on rev B.
Peronally, I'm set with my 1.33 G4 PB for a couple of years. The only computer we are likely to replace in the next two years is the iMac G4 800. I'll either go with the fastest iMac available, or a PowerMac and a Cinema display (particularly if they drop the 20" down to a more competitive $899 or so). Other than that, our daughter graduates from high school in spring 2006, and we will get her her choice of laptops to go to college with. At the moment, she likes Macs, but that changes like the wind these days. I figure the G5 ought to at least be in the PowerBook line by then, maybe even on rev B.
I strongly suspect that Apple plans a wide deployment of the low-power G5s, especially in the iMac G5, where they're badly needed to make some of these changes that you suggested. Personally, I like the iMac G5 design - that doesn't mean I think it's perfect, though.sushi said:
sushi said:
Sorry, My fault I was thinking about the PowerMac to ACD box.
sushi said:
It is a given that portable have more restriction than desktops however it does not mean that Apple is not using the same 17" LCD on both PowerBook and the iMac G5. Unless you can say for certain. Reason why it is the same LCD panel is because of cost issues.
I also notice that the iMac G5 screen is way to bright even on the lowest setting. Plus no way of manual black screen, which IMHO was and still is a great features that the PowerBook and iBook have. It extends the life of the LCD. I found it annoying that they removed this great feature. I also have to mention that I have tried all the other settings to lower the brightness of the screen it way to bright. (maybe I just have sensitive eyes
).sushi said:
Matter of opinion of what an "All-In-One" is these days, since the line is being smudged more and more. Take a look at the tablet PC, its a notebook, media centre, and some models try to pull them off as desktop replacements, again all trotting the lines of an "All-In-One". Then again since we both agree there is no law that governs or rule that says what an "All-In-One" is there is no real argument in regards to it.
Actually I myself liked the iMac G4 and also disliked some parts about it however on the whole it had this "more friendly and naughty" look about it. Could have been the AD (that was brilliant
) The AD that had the iMac G4 in the window and sticking its tong (DVD tray) out. If some people disliked the external speakers, they must have not tried them out there were far better in sound quality than the iMac G5 and iMac G3. They also went quite well with the iSub and the SoundSticks. The speakers placement on the bottom and the sound bouncing off the table does not pull it off for me. Why? Apple quite often contradicts themselves. We all heard that the HDD and Optical Drive in the iMac G4 was not placed vertical as they wanted to do however it degraded performance and life of both, and guess what we have now the iMac G5 that does exactly that. There are other contradictions by Apple however I will leave it to you all to find them (more fun that way).
sushi said:
Honestly Sushi I hope they do get rid of as much white space as they can, put in a low power (not MHz) G5, also a smaller PSU, rethink the speaker placement, port placement, and some other little things.
The iMac G5 just seems like a "rush job" since everyone was yelling we want an affordable G5.
Actually, the iMac G5 toots the less wires make it look better, so why do we need external speakers to have decent sound. That defeats the purpose now doesn't it. Sound sounding "good enough" is a matter of opinion if you said that the PowerBook and iBook have crap sound I would agree with you since again power and space issues along with size. However I do not see why the iMac G5 has to have similar sounding speakers. I find it hard to believe you spending a decent amount of money to either buy external speakers or get crap speakers with your iMac G5. Sorry if I was spending 500 USD than it is expected, not this BS Apple is trying to pull off.
Why do people see companies such as Apple as they friend and a rival company as enemies? They are not giving you FREE Hardware or Software, they are a business and are looking for the cheapest way to manufacture a product and make the most amount of profit. Would you rather have cheaper iMac G5 or eMac G5 or give Steve J another plane.
Last time I checked Apple is loosing ground and instead of lowering the price they are giving a plan to Steve J. WTF? The guy is not poor, he runs Pixar and has a hand in other projects. I fail to see how giving him a plane at the cost of no reducing the prices on they lower line machines is a good thing.
Once Apple has re-gained its ~5% market share and upwards then I do see fit that Steve J can get a plane, not at current. When will they open they eyes when Apple has a ~0.2% market share.
Back to Simplicity in the Apple product line, since there seems to be way too many delays and demand on certain products that Apple is delaying shipments and missing ship dates to its valuable customers.
Sorry I work for neither PPC or x86 side, I do however get offended when something is not as it is advertised, Apple has been in business for many years and has learned many hard lessons however it feels like they have problems of a new start-up as of recent.
wrldwzrd89 said:
Most likely they will use the low powered G5, to reduce heat and noise. I also find it hard to reckon that there is a lack of an flash drive slot. I mean I must be sleeping since Apple keeps tossing "digital-HUB" here and there and what do DIGIAL still cameras, camcorders, mobile phones, mp3 flash players, etc... use Flash media.
Get with the program, Apple as of recent just seems to be skimping on features and technology to extend life and gain more profit.
iMac and eMac are consumer machines, and consumers have Flash cards from they digital camera(corders), mp3 players, mobiles, etc....I fail to see why implementing a multi flash drive in the eMac or iMac and even the portable line adds cost to it (a slight pinch in the profit wallet however worth it), they will not implement this into they system and Hardware design thus the whole "Digital HUB" concept as far as I am concerned is BS.
No Multi Flash Drive.
No included BlueTooth.
No included WiFi (on the eMac and iMac).
No Gigabit (regardless if people will use it or not a digital HUB needs its).
Keep sleeping Apple, I am sure the iPod will carry the company for many years.
powermac666 said:
I agree with you powermac666, I see no reason to upgrade if your machine works well and does what you have intended it to do.
At current, Apples products seem lack luster at least to me. They lack several things that I do not expect of a product that a company claims to be the "BMW" of the computing world.
And for those who are going to state that I will be waiting a long time for some basic features that cost next to nothing to implement in they machines then I have no problems since my current system does me quite well. It might not be a 2.5GHz G5 however being on top of the list has its draw back since one day you are at the top and the next you are pushed to the bottom so there is no point to invest in a 2.5Ghz G5 when it will make its way down the line soon enough considering they now have a 1.6 and 1.8 GHz G5 iMac. Unless you are a business and need the speed and the cost is of no issue to you.
There's no room for a "multi flash drive" on either the iMac or eMac. Also, not everyone needs, wants, or uses iPhoto or a digital camera - there's no benefit for Apple (in significant increased sales) to make it worth their while to include one.m a y a said:Most likely they will use the low powered G5, to reduce heat and noise. I also find it hard to reckon that there is a lack of an flash drive slot. I mean I must be sleeping since Apple keeps tossing "digital-HUB" here and there and what do DIGIAL still cameras, camcorders, mobile phones, mp3 flash players, etc... use Flash media.
Get with the program, Apple as of recent just seems to be skimping on features and technology to extend life and gain more profit.
iMac and eMac are consumer machines, and consumers have Flash cards from they digital camera(corders), mp3 players, mobiles, etc....I fail to see why implementing a multi flash drive in the eMac or iMac and even the portable line adds cost to it (a slight pinch in the profit wallet however worth it), they will not implement this into they system and Hardware design thus the whole "Digital HUB" concept as far as I am concerned is BS.
No Multi Flash Drive.
No included BlueTooth.
No included WiFi (on the eMac and iMac).
No Gigabit (regardless if people will use it or not a digital HUB needs its).
Keep sleeping Apple, I am sure the iPod will carry the company for many years.
Apple probably doesn't think enough users of their desktop Macs (eMac, iMac, PowerMac) use Bluetooth and WiFi to warrant building them in to their systems. Apple collects statistics on these things and uses them to design their products.
What? How does a digital hub need Gigabit Ethernet? As far as I'm concerned, the two are unrelated. There aren't any devices in the hub that connect via Ethernet except networked printers, and those function just fine on slow Ethernet.
wrldwzrd89 said:
I understand what you're saying, but the thing is I think these media ports are now essential. Even the $400 HP Pc i picked up the other week has these built in - it's not needed but it's incredibly convenient.. Maybe it would cost apple $15 to install this - are they becoming so greedy that they cant sacrifice their margins that much?
/asif
asif786 said:
Apple's net margins are actually not very high- they are significantly lower than Dell which basically sells commodity boxes. Apple has decent gross margins (selling price minus cost of goods) and good efficiency in manufacturing, but they have pretty high operating expenses (mainly due to lots of R&D.)
madmaxmedia said:
Exactly how do you figure this out? I mean we are talking about the eMac here, not the PowerMac. They are not creating a whole re-configured and engineered mobo, etc...they have already done the work only shrinking electronics down. For example PSX and PSone then PS2 and PStwo. I can understand if the prices of a PowerMac and PowerBook are high heck even an iPod mini and the iMac G5, however engineering takes from what was already done and shrink things down and makes it more effective.
I find it rather hard to believe that they keep only the PowerMac engineering solutions for the PowerMac, I am sure they borrow design solution from the PowerMac and implement them in the iMac and I see the eMac as so different. Same goes for the notebook line. Given that the consumer oriented lines will have less so I don't see where cost is that much of an issue.
Are you really telling me that Apple makes the HDD, GPU, Optical drives, LCD panels, Speakers, etc...from what I gather they put it all together and design the controller chips along with the mobo's also helping with the PPC chip. Besides all R&D products and ideas do not make it to market.
I would think it would be worse to sell x86 machines since there are so many other companies do so, not with Apple. Being cheap on options and charging more than what the other side has and gives you more is just being deaf to what consumers are asking for. For example USB 2.0
The iPod is good however if I had the option of a built-in SD card reader and writer and allowed to turn the HDD off to upload images or music to allow for longer battery life that would be great.
wrldwzrd89 said:
If Apples statistics are so right why are they loosing market share.
I am not asking for a remote control and my Mac to make me breakfast, however its aimed as a "Digital HUB" and lacks some neat features that are available and have been standard on x86 machines for quite sometime.Don't need Gigabit fine make it optional, again no options to upgrade the iMac G5 or eMac for anything so you are confined to what Apple says it should be? Does Apple control your or pay you to use they machines or do you. Last time I checked the consumer or customer is always RIGHT.
By the way you might have noticed that I have not asked for absurd things such as a tablet PC, a remote control, etc.... So its not asking much. Options is that a bad thing.
hm i don't think that gigabit is that needed..what would be more important for being "a digital hub" would be _more_ usb/firewire connectors
3 USB 2.0 ports (2 USB 2.0 ,1 USB 1.1 ports if you add keyboard+mouse) are not really enough if you have a printer + scanner ..that leaves you with 1 USB port for anything else (like a ISDN adaptor i would need ,webcam,digital cam,additional ethernet etc.)
adding more connectors don't look like somethign difficult or very expensive and would prevent a lot of cable clutter with external USB hubs etc.
sure a minor 'complaint' but a few additional usb ports wouldn't be such a bad idea for a digital hub...
</rant>
3 USB 2.0 ports (2 USB 2.0 ,1 USB 1.1 ports if you add keyboard+mouse) are not really enough if you have a printer + scanner ..that leaves you with 1 USB port for anything else (like a ISDN adaptor i would need ,webcam,digital cam,additional ethernet etc.)
adding more connectors don't look like somethign difficult or very expensive and would prevent a lot of cable clutter with external USB hubs etc.
sure a minor 'complaint' but a few additional usb ports wouldn't be such a bad idea for a digital hub...
</rant>
it would fall over
I assume that you're talking about the iMac, not the eMac.
Personally, if I had a bunch of external devices I'd connect them to a hub - even if the iMac had spare USB ports. Keep it clean on the desk, run one cable to the hub and hide the clutter of cables to the other devices behind or under the desk.
Besides, all those cables on one side could tip the beast over - especially if something catches a cable, or you move a device and don't notice that the cable is tight.
takao said:
I assume that you're talking about the iMac, not the eMac.
Personally, if I had a bunch of external devices I'd connect them to a hub - even if the iMac had spare USB ports. Keep it clean on the desk, run one cable to the hub and hide the clutter of cables to the other devices behind or under the desk.
Besides, all those cables on one side could tip the beast over
- especially if something catches a cable, or you move a device and don't notice that the cable is tight.