eMac G5 put on hold. G4 model back in production

[maya]

And your friends were buying high-end PowerEdge servers, Precision Workstations and Latitudes, not low end Dimensions and Inspirons?

If your friends bought low end, I have no problem believing that the quality didn't measure up to Apple's. As long as the price doesn't match Apple's, that's a choice that your friends made...

"Ignorance" refers to covering the range, not a few sample points.

Yes, my friends and in no specific order has bought 3 Inspirons, 2 Latitudes, 3 Precisions Workstations and 2 PowerEdge server for they business. Again you are assuming. Some of my relatives also have the low end Dell systems so I know the difference. The cheap plastic covers on the Dell notebooks are just awful and that is what was being tooted at that time. The whole systems makes a tone of noise with the fans constantly on. I pity they ears. <--- I believe they are going deaf.

And they were using a combination of Linux and XP. Main reasons for the Dell systems was a better deal and the applications they used were not PPC compatible. And a lack to learn the Mac OS X system structure.

 

[maya]

Reference the PSU, I am completely different than you.

I hate an external PSU. The major reason that I did not purchase a Cube. Hated that external PSU. Incorporating the PSU in the iMac G5 is a nice touch IMHO.

Sushi

A similar styled Power Supply like the iPod, PowerBook, iBook, etc...is that really that ugly looking a white square.

Incorporating the PSU in the casing is not a wise idea since it heats up, that is why the PowerMac G5 has its own compartment right at the bottom away from the other heat generating parts. Maybe they should have incorporate the PSU in the base of the iMac G5, sure it will be a little thick however it would not add the additional heat to the whole system. Since placing the PSU in the stands base would not have an external PSU and still follow the same clean all in one look.

I still think they need to rethink the iMac G5 design.

 

[maya]

It is obvious that Apple has hit some walls and also going over many rough spots. Reason being the long delays in updates and refreshes and out of date specs along with crippling machines.

Reason being is if you can by an iMac G5 will:

Gigabit, WiFi, BT have a screen spanning hack and use some external FW analog and optical attachment, the PMG5 line will look like crap.

The only people then willing to buy the PMG5 are though who require more than 2 Gigs of ram. What is the price of a 1.8 SP or DP PMG5 to an iMac G5 1.8 with a 20 inch screen and all of the above included. You can see that the iMac will win more sales. I mean who would not want to spend a fraction of the price to buy an all in one and an added external display when compared to buying a PM no screens.

That is another reason why Apple went dual all the way and then stepped backwards and introduced a SP model.

Apple just seems cheap to try to squeeze extra for BT and WiFi on all they machines, just include it for the last time it will only cut into that profit margin and increase sales.

While we are at it give people the choice to replace or upgrade they GPU, next thing you see Apple with a "for sale" and "out of business" signs on they front door.

Now can you imagine them offering all the top specs aside from the FSB, chip speed, and expansion ports of the PM in an eMac G5. Simple cannot be done it would kill the iMac and take sales from the PM.

Apple really needs to rethink the eMac and iMac. Offer a PowerMac, PowerBook and an iBook, and the all too famous mini and iPod. This way they can cut cost and offer all the best for all those who want what they need at a great price. Apple still seems to be making most of they money on notebooks and iPod.

why even bother with a "headless mac" when the powermac at a lower price is the same thing.

PowerMac options, SP or DP 1.6-2.5GHz. That way they also don't need people to resign a new case for an iMac or eMac. Notebooks seem fine since people are asking for desktop replacements.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

Apple just seems cheap to try to squeeze extra for BT and WiFi on all they machines, just include it for the last time it will only cut into that profit margin and increase sales.

Did you check the Apple Store before posting this? Apple now includes WiFi on all PowerBooks and iBooks.

 

[vannote]

Compare a Dell Precision Workstation 470 or 670 to a PowerMac, or a PowerEdge 1850 64-bit Xeon server to the Xserve. And by "compare", I mean actually hold and look at them. Put them in the rack to see how sturdy and easy to use the rackmount and sliders are. Connect the redundant power supplies (oops, Xserve doesn't have that quality feature) and fill them with ECC memory (well, Xserve finally has that).

Well, After configuring 4 machines so that they are (more or less) on equal terms (Apple Support vs. Dell's Support aside).

The machines come out to roughly the same price. The Dell Precision Workstation 470 has a "slight" edge price wise and the PowerEdge 1850 (w/No OS included) is aprox. the same price.

Although, the Dell Precision 470 does loose the price comparison if you factor in an ADC discount. . Thats how close it was, and I am a very happy camper.

All of this is quite subjective to say the least as I was making allot of assumptions during the configuration, like assuming that Dual 2.8GHz Xeon w/800MHz FSB is aprox equal to a Dual 2.0GHz PowerPC 970 FX w/ 1GHz FSB. Hard to say really, I have not found many benchmarks from credible sources pitching a PPC 970FX against the usual suspects. If you know of any, let me know.

It really comes down to what you want, or what you need. The real world has a habit of throwing controlled benchmarks out the window anyway and either machine can shine depending on how it is being utilized.

Regards

 

[smirre]

I thought that trolls usually did one-shot inflammatory posts, and didn't participate in prolonged dialogues that calmly discussed points and counter-points. My bad again....

Yes you are wrong. N00b trolls throw that one silly flame and never return. Trained professional trolls however can flame and talk nonsense for 100 pages without going anywhere. Big difference.

 

[takao]

Yes, my friends and in no specific order has bought 3 Inspirons, 2 Latitudes, 3 Precisions Workstations and 2 PowerEdge server for they business. Again you are assuming. Some of my relatives also have the low end Dell systems so I know the difference. The cheap plastic covers on the Dell notebooks are just awful and that is what was being tooted at that time. The whole systems makes a tone of noise with the fans constantly on. I pity they ears. <--- I believe they are going deaf.

And they were using a combination of Linux and XP. Main reasons for the Dell systems was a better deal and the applications they used were not PPC compatible. And a lack to learn the Mac OS X system structure.

depends my experience with dell computers and screens are throughout positive but i only use them on university in the labs... they are quiet enough that you always have to look under the table to look at the led to see if they are already on and the screen is just off (the older p3 compaqs are noisy as hell)
haven't noticed a single screen with pixel errors in the last 1,5 years

all machines fedora,win pro dual boot and both rather flawless (except mozilla being usntable under fedora)
sure they were set up/configured by the university staff but i doubt they changed much with noise configuration

 

[sushi]

Along these lines, it will be interesting to see how the new G5 iMac's sales numbers come out this first go-around.

Yes it will!

The new iMac G5 will definitely be important for Apple's future market expansion. With the iMac G4, they failed to capture this. While an interesting and neat computer, it was really not for the masses. Neither was it's price. The new iMac G5 provides a much better deal for the consumer.

Sushi

 

[sushi]

A similar styled Power Supply like the iPod, PowerBook, iBook, etc...is that really that ugly looking a white square.

These powersupplies are not for a desktop system. Desktop systems draw more power, and thus need a bigger more robust power supply.

The PSU for the Cube was huge...and ungly IMHO.

Since placing the PSU in the stands base would not have an external PSU and still follow the same clean all in one look.

However, you are forgetting the design concept of the iMac G5. It is to be an all-in-one design. And in this case, use a VESA mount which is really cool and a neat feature for some.

I still think they need to rethink the iMac G5 design.

They can always improve a design for sure. Just look at the revisions that the original iMac went through.

Sushi

 

[ju5tin]

Lets hope ALL future macs can take advantage of tiger....

With all this talk about not including Gigabit Ethernet... How many people in this forum use it? Can afford to install it in their offices? Hmmm.... Not until its a bit cheaper I guess....

One thing tho, the GPU is crucial for tiger... At the Mac Expo, I got a one on one presentation of tigers features... When I asked about upgrading my 600 iBook to a new one, *embarrasing silence* then the apple guy smiles and admits that the current offering will not run it to its full advantage....

Priorities
Lets hope the next eMac revision can make full use of Apples own operating system!!! And the iBook for that matter....

Rant over now, you can all return to your homes, theres nothing left to see here.....

 

[RichardCarletta]

I suspect that in January

When the new 3 GHZ G5 Powermacs are announced , that will be when they will announce new iMac and eMac G5s . 90 NM Dual 3 and 2.5 GHZ G5 PowerMacs as the 2 top desktops , with a 90 NM 2 GHZ 20 inch Superdrive iMac G5 ($1900) , a 90 NM 2 GHZ 17 inch Superdrive iMac G5 ($1500) , a 90 NM 1.8 GHZ 17 inch combodrive iMac G5 ($1300) , a 90 NM 1.8 GHZ 17 inch Superdrive eMac G5 ($1000) and a 90 NM 1.8 GHZ 17 inch combodrive eMac G5 ($800) as the new desktop lineup would be good. An entry level Dual 90 NM 2.25 GHZ G5 Powermac might be a good product to introduce at that time. They could then drop the single 1.8 GHZ G5 Powermac and replace it with a single 2 GHZ G5 version .

As for the laptops, don't expect G5 laptops until 2006. DON'T LIKE THAT ? TOO BAD! DEAL WITH IT !

 

[maya]

Did you check the Apple Store before posting this? Apple now includes WiFi on all PowerBooks and iBooks.

wrldwzrd89, I already reckon that the iBook and PowerBook line sports WiFi, however lack of BlueTooth. Even on the desktop models, I mean was it not Apple who kept trying to push WiFi, long and short range If I remember correctly with the introduction of the PBG4 Ti (which has terrible signal strength before moving to the Al material).

Why not give it as standard of WiFi and BlueTooth on all portables and desktop models, regardless if you are going to use it or not. They already put other ports on they machines that no one will or "might" use so why not offer BlueTooth as well in that case that someone again "might" use and try out before running out and buying BlueTooth capable hardware and gadgets.

Are they are business however I fail to see how adding a 20 dollar or less OEM and also bought in bulk can be expensive and yet they still charge a hefty amount for what you get. And lets not forget not until recent did Apple include WiFi in the iBook line, are we playing catch up or leading the way here. I though Apple was supposed to be leading the way in those terms as they keep tooting or Steve J keeps tooth we now have the "worlds" fastest, thinest, lightest, whatever, yada yada yada...

Have you taken a look at they prices for a BlueTooth Keyboard and Mouse, what are they smoking its a re-branded, and or re-badged LogiTech product. Instead of being competitive and offering people some neat technology they decide to charge a hefty fee, even with they AirPort Express. Since you can already buy a WiFi "B" card and router station for less than 40 CAD and WiFi "G" 108 for less than 60-70 CAD. Why is Apple offering some magical technology that they can charge MORE for pretty much the same thing. Design and Ease of use can only go so far, at this rate Apple will continue to look ground. If you even bother to bring up the issue of quality then why are even bad Apples making they way to consumers. And don't bring up well there are only a few bad Apple and Apple has shipped many terrific products of the same line, how do you know those people have not bother to take the time to post on the Apple site, or even know if an "odd" sound is a bad thing and not normal that is coming from they computer. Some people do not know they think computers make odd noises.

And what is with they Pro applications asking for more than a ONE BUTTON MOUSE and yet they ship a ONE BUTTON MOUSE with they PRO machines. I get they reasons for a ONE BUTON MOUSE on a consumer model however for a PRO line, now you are joking.

Sorry money has never been an issue, I buy what I need and I expect a certain quality about it when I pay that sum and not getting short changed. And having problems that I have to take to the service tech or buying Apple to fix dead pixels or PSU issues. Seems Apple is loosing they gripe on quality control, seems all they do now is sell a great looking style and charge a hefty amount for no expansion possibilities other than the usual, place in old and outdated technology, offer less for your money and call it superior. Sad indeed, once the iMac G5 has an expansion for its GPU people will jump to buy it even more so then present.

 

[maya]

These powersupplies are not for a desktop system. Desktop systems draw more power, and thus need a bigger more robust power supply.

The PSU for the Cube was huge...and ungly IMHO.


However, you are forgetting the design concept of the iMac G5. It is to be an all-in-one design. And in this case, use a VESA mount which is really cool and a neat feature for some.


They can always improve a design for sure. Just look at the revisions that the original iMac went through.

Sushi

Sushi, you have misread what I have said. I have stated to use a similar if not the same design for an external PSU for the iMac G5 as they have with the PowerMac, iPod, PowerBook, iBook products. And not that they have to use the exact same one. I also fail to see why it should be thicker than the PowerMac adapter, more along the lines of the PowerBook size should be about right.

A notebook is also considered an "All-In-One" more so than any iMac since it has the keyboard and trackpad (mouse) built into the machine. Besides there is no such rule that defines and states that an All-In-One needs to have its power supply included in the case. The concern of added heat and weight is the issue. Form and Function comes first. That is the first thing you learn in design classes.

I hope they do improve the iMac G5 design by making it more snug fitting to the screen (which is beautiful by the way), loose some weight (for easier transporting), something about the heat issues, and the speakers that sound horrid ( I liked the speakers that the iMac G4 had). And please a better keyboard with a shorter stroke distance.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

wrldwzrd89, I already reckon that the iBook and PowerBook line sports WiFi, however lack of BlueTooth. Even on the desktop models, I mean was it not Apple who kept trying to push WiFi, long and short range If I remember correctly with the introduction of the PBG4 Ti (which has terrible signal strength before moving to the Al material).

Why not give it as standard of WiFi and BlueTooth on all portables and desktop models, regardless if you are going to use it or not. They already put other ports on they machines that no one will or "might" use so why not offer BlueTooth as well in that case that someone again "might" use and try out before running out and buying BlueTooth capable hardware and gadgets.

Are they are business however I fail to see how adding a 20 dollar or less OEM and also bought in bulk can be expensive and yet they still charge a hefty amount for what you get. And lets not forget not until recent did Apple include WiFi in the iBook line, are we playing catch up or leading the way here. I though Apple was supposed to be leading the way in those terms as they keep tooting or Steve J keeps tooth we now have the "worlds" fastest, thinest, lightest, whatever, yada yada yada...

Have you taken a look at they prices for a BlueTooth Keyboard and Mouse, what are they smoking its a re-branded, and or re-badged LogiTech product. Instead of being competitive and offering people some neat technology they decide to charge a hefty fee, even with they AirPort Express. Since you can already buy a WiFi "B" card and router station for less than 40 CAD and WiFi "G" 108 for less than 60-70 CAD. Why is Apple offering some magical technology that they can charge MORE for pretty much the same thing. Design and Ease of use can only go so far, at this rate Apple will continue to look ground. If you even bother to bring up the issue of quality then why are even bad Apples making they way to consumers. And don't bring up well there are only a few bad Apple and Apple has shipped many terrific products of the same line, how do you know those people have not bother to take the time to post on the Apple site, or even know if an "odd" sound is a bad thing and not normal that is coming from they computer. Some people do not know they think computers make odd noises.

And what is with they Pro applications asking for more than a ONE BUTTON MOUSE and yet they ship a ONE BUTTON MOUSE with they PRO machines. I get they reasons for a ONE BUTON MOUSE on a consumer model however for a PRO line, now you are joking.

Sorry money has never been an issue, I buy what I need and I expect a certain quality about it when I pay that sum and not getting short changed. And having problems that I have to take to the service tech or buying Apple to fix dead pixels or PSU issues. Seems Apple is loosing they gripe on quality control, seems all they do now is sell a great looking style and charge a hefty amount for no expansion possibilities other than the usual, place in old and outdated technology, offer less for your money and call it superior. Sad indeed, once the iMac G5 has an expansion for its GPU people will jump to buy it even more so then present.

I agree on the built-in Bluetooth issue - it should definitely be preinstalled on all Macs and not available only as a BTO option. However, I don't think WiFi should be preinstalled on the desktops, since installing a WiFi card (if you're going to have a use for one - most desktop users connect via Ethernet anyway) is pretty simple on all of them.

 

[maya]

With all this talk about not including Gigabit Ethernet... How many people in this forum use it? Can afford to install it in their offices? Hmmm.... Not until its a bit cheaper I guess....

One thing tho, the GPU is crucial for tiger... At the Mac Expo, I got a one on one presentation of tigers features... When I asked about upgrading my 600 iBook to a new one, *embarrasing silence* then the apple guy smiles and admits that the current offering will not run it to its full advantage....

Priorities
Lets hope the next eMac revision can make full use of Apples own operating system!!! And the iBook for that matter....

Rant over now, you can all return to your homes, theres nothing left to see here.....

Gigabit is already available at a low cost about 20 USD if I remember correctly someone has already pointed this out in they post(s). If you are going to use it or not really depends on the consumer or business that needs it or is thinking about using it. The whole deals is to included it regardless, since it doesn't cost too much and the price tag for the system is hefty to make it seem as an even BETTER deal.


Yes, it is sad that Apple or Steve J. Shows us some neat OS upgrades, features, and applications and then release a product that will not take full advantage of it since they are either being cheap or are stuck still in the water that the product will over shine a more expensive product. Here is a though if the PowerBook G4 will not see any updates has Apple though of dropping the price or including AE, and other neat things so it does hold its weight in price and features. Nope good old Apple will stick to the old technology and high price. A price drop is that so hard.

I like Apple technology however it seems more and more at current that Apple is not leading and playing catch up in other areas of computing and the whole "MHz myth" that they kept pushing with the G4 PM line seems to have over taken them with the G5.

I also remember when they introduced the iMac G4 that Steve J. himself said the reason they did not put the DVD drive in the vertical position is because it slows the read time of the disc. Same issue with the HDD. Fast forward to the iMac G5, what have they done DVD drive and HDD are guess what vertical. Hypocrites work at Apple in recent years.


I believe Apple believes its users have amnesia, whatever.

 

[maya]

I agree on the built-in Bluetooth issue - it should definitely be preinstalled on all Macs and not available only as a BTO option. However, I don't think WiFi should be preinstalled on the desktops, since installing a WiFi card (if you're going to have a use for one - most desktop users connect via Ethernet anyway) is pretty simple on all of them.

Again that is assuming that home desktop users do not use or require WiFi. Why have a good product like AirPort Express (which IMO is confused since it is small for mobile use and has options to connect to a printer and Stereo system) Anyhow that aside WiFi "G" cards do not cost much to manufacture. It's simply a point of Apple charging a hefty amount and offering less for your money. Apple needs to get with the program at ~1.8 market share, gee I wonder why. They products are no longer looking like a good deal.

 

[maya]

Yes you are wrong. N00b trolls throw that one silly flame and never return. Trained professional trolls however can flame and talk nonsense for 100 pages without going anywhere. Big difference.

I am pretty sure the users here that bring up other x86 companies are not trolls or NOOb's for that matter. I myself have been using both x86 and PPC system along with Mac OS, Windows OS, and *nix (Irix) OS. I have no reason to take sides as long as my work is done as expected.

The point being is that lately Apple systems seem less of a deal since they are skipping out on some neat technology and then charging more to obtain it.

For example:

At the current price if the iMac G5 line:

Had included BlueTooth and WiFi.
Had included the BlueTooth Keyboard and Mouse.
8x DVD Drive (as the iMac G5 uses a mobile DVD burner 8x ones exist).
A Nice pair of iMac G4 external speakers.
Gigabit Ethernet.


and for those who cannot get enough a non-welded GPU.

Other than that keep everything the same, with a few rev A design glitches as expected the iMac G5 it future proof and people have no reason to complain other than rev A product issues as with every product.


That is the whole issue that Apple, cripples they low end machines from features to make they top line look like a great deal.

 

[AidenShaw]

GigE prices have plummeted in the last year

With all this talk about not including Gigabit Ethernet... How many people in this forum use it? Can afford to install it in their offices? Hmmm.... Not until its a bit cheaper I guess....

http://shopper.cnet.com - search for "gigabit switch"

You'll see 5-port switches for about $50, 8-port for $80, 16 port for $275, 24-port for $365. (Note that some switches that seem too cheap are 10/100 switches with one or two GigE uplinks, and that switches that seem too expensive are probably L2/L3 managed switches.)

Search for "gigabit pci", and you'll see cards as low as $9 (less than the per-port price of the switch).

 

[wrldwzrd89]

I am pretty sure the users here that bring up other x86 companies are not trolls or NOOb's for that matter. I myself have been using both x86 and PPC system along with Mac OS, Windows OS, and *nix (Irix) OS. I have no reason to take sides as long as my work is done as expected.

The point being is that lately Apple systems seem less of a deal since they are skipping out on some neat technology and then charging more to obtain it.

For example:

At the current price if the iMac G5 line:

Had included BlueTooth and WiFi.
Had included the BlueTooth Keyboard and Mouse.
8x DVD Drive (as the iMac G5 uses a mobile DVD burner 8x ones exist).
A Nice pair of iMac G4 external speakers.
Gigabit Ethernet.


and for those who cannot get enough a non-welded GPU.

Other than that keep everything the same, with a few rev A design glitches as expected the iMac G5 it future proof and people have no reason to complain other than rev A product issues as with every product.


That is the whole issue that Apple, cripples they low end machines from features to make they top line look like a great deal.

There's one little issue with that setup - single-user mode is not usable currently with Bluetooth keyboards, and it's important to have access to it. Therefore, although I still think Bluetooth should be built-in, including the Bluetooth keyboard and mouse is foolish until Apple gets the single-user mode issue fixed (if they can - single-user mode loads minimal drivers, so it may not be possible to make a reasonable fix).

 

[wrldwzrd89]

http://shopper.cnet.com - search for "gigabit switch"

You'll see 5-port switches for about $50, 8-port for $80, 16 port for $275, 24-port for $365. (Note that some switches that seem too cheap are 10/100 switches with one or two GigE uplinks, and that switches that seem too expensive are probably L2/L3 managed switches.)

Search for "gigabit pci", and you'll see cards as low as $9 (less than the per-port price of the switch).

That's only half of the problem. Many offices and homes use Cat5 cabling; Gigabit Ethernet functions best with Cat6 or Cat7, and most people can't be bothered to rewire the whole house or office just for a boost in network speed. Cat7 cable or higher will probably be the minimum requirement for 10 Gigabit Ethernet, which is already being deployed in select environments.

 

[Zigster]

I think the new imac is not attractive. Bordering on ugly, in fact. The emac looks better, and I'll buy one when they put the g5 in it.

 

[maya]

There's one little issue with that setup - single-user mode is not usable currently with Bluetooth keyboards, and it's important to have access to it. Therefore, although I still think Bluetooth should be built-in, including the Bluetooth keyboard and mouse is foolish until Apple gets the single-user mode issue fixed (if they can - single-user mode loads minimal drivers, so it may not be possible to make a reasonable fix).

That said I am sure its not that hard to make a keyboard that is dual USB and BlueTooth capable. Would solve that problem. However the mouse that could be tricky or not.

If they have included a hybrid USB 1.1 and BlueTooth keyboard and mouse there would not have all these problems of people who want the Apple BT keyboard and mouse and then store they USB ones. I though this was an ECO friendly company.

 

[AidenShaw]

That's only half of the problem. Many offices and homes use Cat5 cabling; Gigabit Ethernet functions best with Cat6 or Cat7...

Good point, although I would think that the majority of home/small office installations have the cables strung between systems - not embedded in the walls.

Good Cat5e is fine for GigE - our building is Cat5e and we've had no trouble with running GigE over the house and lab Cat5e infrastructure cabling. (But there is crap labeled "5e" out there, so beware.)

 

[wrldwzrd89]

That said I am sure its not that hard to make a keyboard that is dual USB and BlueTooth capable. Would solve that problem. However the mouse that could be tricky or not.

If they have included a hybrid USB 1.1 and BlueTooth keyboard and mouse there would not have all these problems of people who want the Apple BT keyboard and mouse and then store they USB ones. I though this was an ECO friendly company.

Actually, a hybrid mouse isn't needed, since single-user mode doesn't make use of the mouse at all. A hybrid keyboard would be sufficient.

 

[maya]

I think the new imac is not attractive. Bordering on ugly, in fact. The emac looks better, and I'll buy one when they put the g5 in it.

The iMac G5 looks, is a matter of opinion. Some people like it some do not. I hardly think it is revolutionary however it does have some neat things about it.

I am split in regards to the iMac G5 and eMac. The iMac G5 does seems like a step down considering the iMac G4 had more flexibility and better sounding speakers.

iMac G4 had the human face sense to it with the Optical Drive as a mouth sticking its tong tray out at you. The iMac G5 seems cold, like a face just staring at you where is the fun in this design.