eMac G5 put on hold. G4 model back in production

[Yvan256]

As long as Dell and other PC manufacturers use integrated Intel Extreme graphics in their low end systems, Apple will prevail with these sorts of graphics cards.

But Apple is only half-prevailing with a Radeon 9200/32MB... You see, even these low-end PCs still have an AGP slot, so an upgrade is still possible.

If Apple decides the eMac G5 uses the Radeon 9200 with 32MB VRAM, you're stuck there. You cannot upgrade even if you're willing to pay for it.

 

[Yvan256]

Personally, I have no problem seeing the eMac go G5 before the PowerBook line. As you indicate, there are some engineering issues. Why should one line hold up the other.

Indeed. There is still people complaining "but the eMac cannot go G5 before the PowerBook since the eMac is a consumer computer and the PowerBook is a professionnal one". Well... is the iMac a professionnal computer now? Last time I checked it was still consumer.

Pro:
- PowerMac G5
- PowerBook G4

Consumer:
- iMac G5
- eMac G4
- iBook G4

There is ALREADY a "lowly, unworthy consumer-grade" Apple computer with a G5. Why should that stop the other one from getting it? We're not talking about the iBook either. ;-)

As we all know, the eMac was originally for the education market. But due to demand for a low cost Mac, and the popularity of the eMac, it is now a separate product line. A good one at that.

The eMac popularity (and public pressure on Apple to release it from its original edu-only market) only proves there's a huge demand for a low-cost Apple computer.

Imagine if Apple sold a low-cost LCD-less iMac (we all saw how the iMac is modular inside, Apple would only need to make a new casing for it without an LCD). Of course it wouldn't be called an "iMac", but it would still be the same parts inside the new case (minus LCD of course).

Who knows, maybe the next eMac will be exactly that (iMac modular parts inside a new case with a CRT)?

Can't wait to see how it'll look, but above else, can't wait to see its specifications... (now that we know it's a G5/1.6GHz... will it be even more crippled than the iMac G5? What will be the bus speed divider? How about the GPU and VRAM?)

 

[Sun Baked]

Imagine if Apple sold a low-cost LCD-less iMac (we all saw how the iMac is modular inside, Apple would only need to make a new casing for it without an LCD). Of course it wouldn't be called an "iMac", but it would still be the same parts inside the new case (minus LCD of course).

Who knows, maybe the next eMac will be exactly that (iMac modular parts inside a new case with a CRT)?

The iMac is modular, and they already sell a iMac without the LCD -- it's the new Single Processor 1.8GHz PowerMac G5.

It's not using the same architecture as the other PowerMacs, but using the iMac G5's chipset along with the reorganized motherboard.

The problem with the current eMac is that is just went through and architectural change on 4/2004 -- where they swapped out the old SDR PowerMac chipset it was using and upgraded to the DDR iMac/iBook/PowerBook chipset.

Typically when Apple makes an architectural change like this, it'll be awhile before they do it again.

Think of it this way, it was 2 years before Apple made the first architectural change on the eMac -- introduced as a all-in-one PowerMac on 4/2002 and changed to a CRT iMac on 4/2004.

Everything else where speed bumps and dragging the outdated SDR PowerMac chipset into the Airport Extreme world.

So based on the one data mark the eMac would become a G5 on 4/2006.

But that is also a little long to hold onto a the old chipset if everything else gets moved over to the iMac G5 chipset.

Basically expect the eMac to become a G5 last.

 

[maya]

Basically expect the eMac to become a G5 last.

Not really as people have already stated the G5 is a desktop chip not really a notebook chip. So chances that it makes the jump to a G5 are much better than the notebook line. Even the AGP 8x is getting old in the entry level PMG5 when Graphic Cards are available for PCIe on the Mac you can rest assure that the iMac and eMac will be the only two supporting AGP 8x.

The G5 has just tipped the balance to the desktop line, the same logic of the past will not work.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

If Apples statistics are so right why are they loosing market share. I am not asking for a remote control and my Mac to make me breakfast, however its aimed as a "Digital HUB" and lacks some neat features that are available and have been standard on x86 machines for quite sometime.

Don't need Gigabit fine make it optional, again no options to upgrade the iMac G5 or eMac for anything so you are confined to what Apple says it should be? Does Apple control your or pay you to use they machines or do you. Last time I checked the consumer or customer is always RIGHT.

By the way you might have noticed that I have not asked for absurd things such as a tablet PC, a remote control, etc.... So its not asking much. Options is that a bad thing.

Apple is losing market share because the market share calculations are flawed and Apple is not growing as fast as the rest of the PC industry as a whole - both are growing, though. It has very little to do with the digital hub concept.

Your other points I agree with - I guess Apple likes the all-in-one concept. It's fine with me - I have an iMac G4 (which is an all-in-one design with external speakers), and it does what I need it to do at a speed I'm happy with.

 

[AidenShaw]

but isn't that the very definition?

Apple is losing market share because the market share calculations are flawed and Apple is not growing as fast as the rest of the PC industry as a whole...

Isn't that the very definition of "losing market share" - having a smaller percentage of the total quarter by quarter?

What is the flaw?

 

[wrldwzrd89]

Isn't that the very definition of "losing market share" - having a smaller percentage of the total quarter by quarter?

What is the flaw?

That's the definition - correct. The flaw is that the PC marketshare calculation includes all Windows-based terminals, a market Apple does not compete in.

 

[AidenShaw]

That's the definition - correct. The flaw is that the PC marketshare calculation includes all Windows-based terminals, a market Apple does not compete in.

But, Windows-based thin clients would have to be growing faster than normal Windows-based systems for the figures to under-estimate Apple's share growth.... Do you have that info? (I couldn't find any, and you are the one claiming that the numbers would help Apple.)

I had the feeling that Linux (search for LTSP) and other embedded OS (search for QNX) were gaining in the thin client arena.

If LTSP/QNX are gaining, then Apple's marketshare loss is worse than the official figures say....

 

[wrldwzrd89]

But, Windows-based thin clients would have to be growing faster that normal Windows-based systems for the figures to under-estimate Apple's share growth.... Do you have that info? (I couldn't find any, and you are the one claiming that the numbers would help Apple.)

I had the feeling that Linux (search for LTSP) and other embedded OS (search for QNX) were gaining in the thin client arena.

If LTSP/QNX are gaining, then Apple's marketshare loss is worse than the official figures say....

I do not have that information - I'm simply stating what seems reasonable to me.

 

[maya]

I do not have that information - I'm simply stating what seems reasonable to me.

Are we living in a "bubble" wrldwzrd89 like Apple. No you should have this and that, what ever happened to what the customer wants and is asking for. That would explain why Apple is loosing ground as well.

No wonder they seem to be putting all or most of its efforts in the iPod digital portable music since they know they have that in the bag and again not keeping one step ahead by at least offering a flash slot, seem they will loose ground there to in the near future. Innovation is not a colour screen in a portable player, seems they are squeezing the iPod for all its worth bad mistake it will hit them in the face, soon enough.

I don't think I will be upgrading from my 3G iPod 20Gig anything soon since the colour screen or the click-wheel do not appeal to me as of yet not with a fash slot reader and writer. Who know they might have it in the 5G model with even better battery life and oh oh BT, WiFi, Firewireless (which I do not care too much about).

And a lack of flash readers and writers in they portable line that is just ignorant, in order for me to transfer my CF or SD images from my digital camera(corder) I would have to buy a Mac notebook, and iPod and the media read attachment for the iPod, Portable I think not.

Apples hardware and they updates as of recent along with they shipping dates are looking lame just lame. How long will you wait for you PMG5 2.5GHz or any other product people will only keep this up for so long, if this was a company like Dell or HP you and others would look else where. Apple, Dell, HP, etc...are not your friends they are offering a product for you to consumer plain and simple even the warranties are sick on Apples side, buy Apple Care well at the price you sell your machines it should be included. Simple matter of being cheap to buy Steve Jobs a plane, how does that fit in?

 

[wrldwzrd89]

Are we living in a "bubble" wrldwzrd89 like Apple. No you should have this and that, what ever happened to what the customer wants and is asking for. That would explain why Apple is loosing ground as well.

No wonder they seem to be putting all or most of its efforts in the iPod digital portable music since they know they have that in the bag and again not keeping one step ahead by at least offering a flash slot, seem they will loose ground there to in the near future. Innovation is not a colour screen in a portable player, seems they are squeezing the iPod for all its worth bad mistake it will hit them in the face, soon enough.

I don't think I will be upgrading from my 3G iPod 20Gig anything soon since the colour screen or the click-wheel do not appeal to me as of yet not with a fash slot reader and writer. Who know they might have it in the 5G model with even better battery life and oh oh BT, WiFi, Firewireless (which I do not care too much about).

And a lack of flash readers and writers in they portable line that is just ignorant, in order for me to transfer my CF or SD images from my digital camera(corder) I would have to buy a Mac notebook, and iPod and the media read attachment for the iPod, Portable I think not.

Apples hardware and they updates as of recent along with they shipping dates are looking lame just lame. How long will you wait for you PMG5 2.5GHz or any other product people will only keep this up for so long, if this was a company like Dell or HP you and others would look else where. Apple, Dell, HP, etc...are not your friends they are offering a product for you to consumer plain and simple even the warranties are sick on Apples side, buy Apple Care well at the price you sell your machines it should be included. Simple matter of being cheap to buy Steve Jobs a plane, how does that fit in?

You've convinced me that we simply don't agree when it comes to Apple. This little debate was fun, but it's going in circles now and has ceased to entertain me anymore.

 

[maya]

You've convinced me that we simply don't agree when it comes to Apple. This little debate was fun, but it's going in circles now and has ceased to entertain me anymore.

Actually I agreed with Apple when it was going through its re-birth stage with the iMac G3, and then it slowly started to go downhill. Now the company just seems focused on iPod and cold designs.

The fun exciting Apple has meet its demise. or either sleeping

Hopefully they get back to what made them a hugh hit with the iMac G3 colours and warm design that are friendly. I remember those days when I was a student and I looked at the bondi blue and all I could say was wow, I want one. Now that feeling has just gone numb, all I see is yuk white snow coloured iMac, eMac and iBook. Plus what ever happened to the sexy design of the PowerBook G3, gone everything to this cold straight industrial look.

 

[zelmo]

...And a lack of flash readers and writers in they portable line that is just ignorant, in order for me to transfer my CF or SD images from my digital camera(corder) I would have to buy a Mac notebook, and iPod and the media read attachment for the iPod, Portable I think not.

m a y a,I agree with you that Apple's "digital hub" ideal would be better served by offering more BTO options like SD/CF slots and GigE on the consumer lines, rather than Apple basically deciding what most consumers require and then offering only those things. I have to disagree on the one statement I quoted above, though.

I have a digital camera that uses xD media. I also have a laptop, and a G4 iMac like you. You need neither a card reader nor an iPod with media attachment to move pics from your camera to your Mac. If I want to transfer images from my camera to my Mac, I just use the cable that shipped with my camera and plug it into one of the available USB ports. Okay, I'll grant that it is sometimes not convenient to carry your camera with you to transfer images, so carrying just the cards is easier. But if you're carrying the cards AND your 'Book around, you probably already had the opportunity to copy the card data to the Mac via the camera. Streeeeeeeetching your point just a little?
I think you might be over-dramatizing the example to emphasize your already valid point that Apple does not offer enough options to the consumer.

That all aside, I think we here are the (very) vocal minority. Most consumers aren't stretching the limits of what a digital hub offers. It's the people like us that, through using and complaining about the features that are available today, are helping to drive the industry (and Apple) forward and refine the products that are offered tomorrow.

 

[Yvan256]

Isn't that the very definition of "losing market share" - having a smaller percentage of the total quarter by quarter?

What is the flaw?

Well, it is, but unless you actually stop and think about it, you (wrongly) assume the Apple user base is shrinking. When in fact both sides are gaining users.

Best marketing FUD ever, if you ask me (it's not a lie, but it makes it seems as if Apple was losing users to Microsoft).

 

[AidenShaw]

you're trying to put words in my mouth that I never said

Well, it is, but unless you actually stop and think about it, you (wrongly) assume the Apple user base is shrinking. When in fact both sides are gaining users.

Best marketing FUD ever, if you ask me (it's not a lie, but it makes it seems as if Apple was losing users to Microsoft).

Please explain where I said anything about user base.... You say that I "wrongly assume" - but nowhere did I say anything about user base.

Plus, if I had said anything I would have used the more common term "installed base", not "user base".

And, it really doesn't have much to do with FUD. The real worry about market share is that "market share" is the figure that the bean counters will use when deciding where to invest in development of new software and hardware products. These Ferengi bean counters aren't going to see as big a profit by investing in development for a platform that's losing market share....

 

[Yvan256]

Please explain where I said anything about user base.... You say that I "wrongly assume" - but nowhere did I say anything about user base.

Plus, if I had said anything I would have used the more common term "installed base", not "user base".

And, it really doesn't have much to do with FUD. The real worry about market share is that "market share" is the figure that the bean counters will use when deciding where to invest in development of new software and hardware products. These Ferengi bean counters aren't going to see as big a profit by investing in development for a platform that's losing market share....

I didn't say you said that, I was just talking about people in general (especially those in marketing and sales).

And as you point out, that's exactly my point. People only see Apple's market share going down, when in fact there's never been more Apple users.

It does make FUD against Apple and for Microsoft though. "Apple users MUST be switching to Windows since Apple's market share is going down". <g>

I hate statistics and numbers.

 

[AidenShaw]

I didn't say you said that, I was just talking about people in general (especially those in marketing and sales).

I see that now....

When one refers to "a person in general", the pronoun "one" is better than the pronoun "you".

Had you written:

"Well, it is, but unless one actually stops and thinks about it, one (wrongly) assumes ..."

it wouldn't have been as easy to misunderstand the reference of your statement.

Sorry about the confusion....

 

[mrgreen4242]

This is just my opinion, but the eMac should be completely redesigned when it gets a G5... it is plain but ugly right now.

They should revive the Cube type form factor as an eMac. Only mace it white, like the iBooks and such. The current eMac is basically non-upgradable, other than replacing the drives and adding RAM, so just make a quiet little headleass box with the lowest end video card that will support Core Image (5600FX Ultra with 64mb?). Sell a 1.6ghz G5 with 256MB RAM and a 40GB HD for about $700-750, offer a 17" CRT for an extra $100, and bring back the smaller LCDS (15" and 17" - does Apple even offer anything under 20: right now?). With a 17" LCD the price would run up to be just a hair less than an iMac, but you don't get the slick form factor.

They would sell tons of these... a G5 w/ a 15" LCD for under a grand would be a huge success... plus, people with older G4 PMs would likely upgrade, as they could keep thier monitors, and get a G5 for ~$700.

I guess what I am saying is that the integrated display only works if the package LOOKS slick/smooth/great/whatever, like the iMac (both G4 and G5)... the eMac kills the whole idea that Macs are functional AND attractive machines.

 

[wdlove]

I don't think the eMac looks all that bad. It brings back memories of the original iMac.

 

[BarfBag]

In my opinion, the eMac should always stay a step behind everything else. Why? Because not only would it remain cheaper, but it wouldn't hurt iMac sales.

LCD eMac + Elementary School Kids = Pretty Rainbow Colors

If eMac ever goes LCD, they should put a protective glass cover over the screen or something. I can just picture what would happen if they didn't.

 

[richardthomas78]

Apple Store

When you click on the eMac at the US apple store, it has a little "New" icon next to the descriptions. Has this always been there?

 

[Mac-Xpert]

The current eMac is basically non-upgradable, other than replacing the drives and adding RAM, so just make a quiet little headleass box with the lowest end video card that will support Core Image (5600FX Ultra with 64mb?)

You must be the first person here to suggests that apple should put a low-end video card in one of their machines When you look at the comments on the iMac G5, one of the most often heard complaints is that the video card sucks, and that apple should have at least put a 9600XT in it.

Although you didn't say that, I assume you meant to say that it should be upgradable, but even still, I think they need to put in a decent video card to start with.

 

[Yvan256]

The iMac is modular, and they already sell a iMac without the LCD -- it's the new Single Processor 1.8GHz PowerMac G5.

It's not using the same architecture as the other PowerMacs, but using the iMac G5's chipset along with the reorganized motherboard.

No it's not, it uses a SP 1.8GHz PowerMac G5 motherboard.

When I say the iMac G5 is modular, I'm referring to the fact that the insides of the computer are modular, not the chipset and specifications.

Take my words literally: grab an iMac G5, open it, take away the CPU/GPU board, put it inside a redesigned eMac. You only need to manufacture one CPU/GPU motherboard for both the iMac G5 and the eMac G5.

And please, PLEASE people - when someone asks for a "headless iMac", STOP pointing that stupid PowerMac. Compare the prices, when we're asking for a headless iMac, it's not to "drop the LCD", it's to *LOWER the price*.

It's not THAT complicated!

Thanks.

 

[Yvan256]

Isn't that the very definition of "losing market share" - having a smaller percentage of the total quarter by quarter?

What is the flaw?

The flaw is that regular, Joe Street people deducing that since Apple is losing market share, it also means they're losing users.

Then, it's a simple matter for these people to think "well, if they're dropping their Mac, they're buying a Windows box. Apple ain't so good after all, even their own users are leaving to get on the Microsoft platform. Why would I want to drop Windows to pay twice as much for a computer that's losing it's users?" (please don't quote me your "Apple ain't more expensive than other computers", because a LOT of people buy their computers from local stores, and even brand-name computers are so often with rebates that it lowers the price by hundreds of dollars. Also, people don't look at the VALUE of what they buy, they only look at the sticker price. We're talking about Joe Street here, remember?)

So, to get back on track with the "Apple is losing marketshare" topic... You see how even while saying the truth, you can project a negative image?

Example (made up statistics to better explain my point):
Apple 1990: 10% marketshare, 5M users
Apple 2004: 3% marketshare, 25M users

It's no secret why marketing uses "marketshare" when trying to put down Apple.

Edit: it seems I re-replied to your post... Maybe I should get some sleep. Oh well, at least my explanation makes more sense now (until I read it again tomorrow morning)

 

[Yvan256]

I see that now....

When one refers to "a person in general", the pronoun "one" is better than the pronoun "you".

Had you written:

"Well, it is, but unless one actually stops and thinks about it, one (wrongly) assumes ..."

it wouldn't have been as easy to misunderstand the reference of your statement.

Sorry about the confusion....

Well, english is a second language to me... But now that you pointed that out, I can see how my original reply was quite misleading.