Emagic Followup

[arn]

This eWeek article discusses Apple's acquisition of Emagic:

According to sources, Apple believes the acquisition of Emagic with fill a longstanding "gap" in its software portfolio, allowing it to bolster its professional-strength audio offerings for the Mac market, which accounts for about two-thirds of Emagic's business.

Also according to their sources, Logic 5 Titanium (OS X) will soon be released.

 

[Inhale420]

i'm just interested in what it's like to lose several thousand producers who use Emagic for the pc.... very interesting. will they 'switch' or will they use other software?

 

[billiam0878]

Though some might switch, I imagine most will find new software as its (most often) cheaper than buying a new computer.

Bill

 

[3rdpath]

i think many pc users will switch to mac.

its only going to be easier to run and you have to factor in the time to learn a new program if you want to stay with pc...who wants to do that...

its gonna be interesting, thats for sure.

 

[Billicus]

It makes me that Apple is aquiring all of these new companies. It makes me at the thought of all thouse Wintel users jumping boat just to stay with the software they currently use. All of Apple's aquisitions should hopefully point the way to a brighter tommorow, and close the door on the gloomy days of the past. Until then, Apples are still the best machines on the market.

 

[etoiles]

It is interesting to see how the 'weak' guy is always seen as being morally better than the 'strong', oppresive one...

I LAUGH at what is happening, I find it hillarious that wintel users get their pants cut off, but I know that these are pretty tough business practices that would create a scandal if Microsoft was behind them (ok, ok, they do it already, have been all the time).

What is Apple going to do once they reach a respectable market share (I am optimistic) ? It is like a church and state thing, I am not too thrilled about the idea to have hardware, OS and apps coming from the same company...to much control from Apple cannot be good, not even for the mac user.

 

[blukens]

Well, who remembers Bungie? Everyone I'm sure. They too made great cross platform software for a niche market, and then they got bought out by a bigger company. By Microsoft. And, of course, they'll never make a Mac game again.

My point here is that, for better or worse, what Apple is doing isn't too much different. While we were all pissed at the time, at this point - who really cares about Bungie? There was no big scandal, it was just business as usual: one company buys another company, takes what they want, and ditches the rest.

I expect things will turn out pretty much the same way here. Some people will switch to a competitor, some people might even instead switch to the Mac. In the end new and existing XBox... errr Mac users get a new and/or better program out of the deal.

 

[badtz]

Originally posted by etoiles

What is Apple going to do once they reach a respectable market share (I am optimistic) ? It is like a church and state thing, I am not too thrilled about the idea to have hardware, OS and apps coming from the same company...to much control from Apple cannot be good, not even for the mac user.

COMPLETELY agree!!!!!

 

[menoinjun]

I have a feeling that people will switch to mac because Logic is very hard to learn. The learning curve for it is very steep, and it comes with a couple hundred page instruction book with it. It's a great program, not extraordinarily user friendly.

-Pete

 

[groovebuster]

Most PC-Logic users...

... are very pissed about that development. And believe me, they won't switch to the Mac after that. The feel kicked in the ass by Apple.

Before they'll switch to Mac the'll switch to Cubase SX, since they still can use their set-up almost unchanged!

I still doubt if that was a smart move by Apple!!!!

groovebuster

 

[modul8tr]

Originally posted by ptrauber
I have a feeling that people will switch to mac because Logic is very hard to learn. The learning curve for it is very steep, and it comes with a couple hundred page instruction book with it. It's a great program, not extraordinarily user friendly.

-Pete

Well the manual is actually 1000 pages. But in defense of Logic which has gotten a bad rap, it is because it gives you some many amazing ways to do one task. Logic allows you to tailer it to your own personal production flow. From your own customized key commands, to the screensets (brilliant), to the very elegant arrangement window.

Instead of saying HERE is this function and THIS is how you carry it, Logic says Here is this function HOW would you like to carry it out.

As far as learning how to set up your synths and record midi/audio tracks it is VERY straight forward. And the mixer is laid out like....a mixer. Not very confusing.

It's when you want to roll up your sleeves and dig in more, that you have to crack open the manual. But all of the amazing features you will continue to discover (the gift that keeps on giving) will save you SO much time.

Logic is a brilliant program and it's no surprise to me that it has become the top audio sequencer. Emagic kept busting out the innovations while Opcode (Studio Vision) got comforatable, and Steinberg remained lame.

That's why I'm Soooooo happy to see Emagic and Apple together. They were the first to jump on the velocity engine bandwagon, develop multiprocessor support, and then the great EMI 2|6 USB interface. Not to mention all of those great VST/TDM instruments and they REALLY know how to code. The program just won't crash. Apple and Emagic are innovators and belong together. I can't wait to see the fruits of this union.

 

[tjwett]

Originally posted by modul8tr


Well the manual is actually 1000 pages. But in defense of Logic which has gotten a bad rap, it is because it gives you some many amazing ways to do one task. Logic allows you to tailer it to your own personal production flow. From your own customized key commands, to the screensets (brilliant), to the very elegant arrangement window.

Instead of saying HERE is this function and THIS is how you carry it, Logic says Here is this function HOW would you like to carry it out.

As far as learning how to set up your synths and record midi/audio tracks it is VERY straight forward. And the mixer is laid out like....a mixer. Not very confusing.

It's when you want to roll up your sleeves and dig in more, that you have to crack open the manual. But all of the amazing features you will continue to discover (the gift that keeps on giving) will save you SO much time.

Logic is a brilliant program and it's no surprise to me that it has become the top audio sequencer. Emagic kept busting out the innovations while Opcode (Studio Vision) got comforatable, and Steinberg remained lame.

That's why I'm Soooooo happy to see Emagic and Apple together. They were the first to jump on the velocity engine bandwagon, develop multiprocessor support, and then the great EMI 2|6 USB interface. Not to mention all of those great VST/TDM instruments and they REALLY know how to code. The program just won't crash. Apple and Emagic are innovators and belong together. I can't wait to see the fruits of this union.

hey, you sound like a fellow Logic user. there is a great tutorial in the current Computer Music on setting up Logic Environments for your hardware synths. They use the Korg MS2000 but it's relevant for any i suppose. i just finished reading it and it was very useful. creating Environments was always something i've had trouble with. all the cotroller data...anyway just a heads up.

 

[evanmarx]

crossgrade imminent?

hmmm .... if apple - who now owns emagic - gives every pc-logic user an option to crossgrade logic from pc to mac (when purchasing mac hardware ...) for FREE ... then i could think it could work ... at least for thoese pc users that were already thinking maybe about trying out macintosh ...

the crossgrade should of course include all plugins or thirdparty sw sold by emagic .

i.e. you have a valid pc license? want to buy a new imac? we give you a full logic mac license ...

even if logic has a steep learning curve ...it's even more of a hassle to rebuild all of your midi-setup on a different hardware-platform

i' ve been switching at least 4 times between logic (creator) and cubase in the last 15 years (starting on the atari) ... when every time one or the other software took a technological leap ....

 

[modul8tr]

Thanks for the heads up. Now if only the American tech magazines could dedicate space on a regular basis to these programs

I actually successfully set up an Environment once, then broke it some how. It is a really complex (and that's a good thing), powerful feature. I'd like to learn the practical side, as I just don't have the time to do all the insane creative environments yet. But there are some cool people out there dedicating a lot of time to doing that for people like me.

As I'm always using Pro Tools in combo with Logic, I'm still in OMS hell. I guess it is fairly stable and transparent, but when it's a hassle it is REALLY a hassle. Those really fun OMS files that corrupt mysteriously every so often or change settings.

I really hope the whole Jaguar OSX shift will phase out OMS for good. Opcode doesn't even exist any more right? Why is Digidesign holding on? Everyone hates it. I can't imagine OMS still being required when Pro Tools OSX rolls out this Fall (the gods willing).

Thanks again for the Computer Music tid bit.

 

[modul8tr]

Re: crossgrade imminent?

Originally posted by evanmarx
hmmm .... if apple - who now owns emagic - gives every pc-logic user an option to crossgrade logic from pc to mac (when purchasing mac hardware ...) for FREE ... then i could think it could work ... at least for thoese pc users that were already thinking maybe about trying out macintosh ...

Interesting. We'll see. I must say that when I crossgraded to Logic Platinum originally, I don't know if I can go into the details, but lets just say the Emagic people made me a generous offer I could not refuse. That was back when they were making the shift to THE major player in their field.

They'll do something cool.

 

[groovebuster]

Re: crossgrade imminent?

Originally posted by evanmarx
hmmm .... if apple - who now owns emagic - gives every pc-logic user an option to crossgrade logic from pc to mac (when purchasing mac hardware ...) for FREE ... then i could think it could work ... at least for thoese pc users that were already thinking maybe about trying out macintosh ...

the crossgrade should of course include all plugins or thirdparty sw sold by emagic .

i.e. you have a valid pc license? want to buy a new imac? we give you a full logic mac license ...

even if logic has a steep learning curve ...it's even more of a hassle to rebuild all of your midi-setup on a different hardware-platform

i' ve been switching at least 4 times between logic (creator) and cubase in the last 15 years (starting on the atari) ... when every time one or the other software took a technological leap ....

But still that would be a bad deal for the PC user. A Mac costs a few thousand bucks. This is still extra money he has to spend just to get a working set-up again that does exactly the same as before. Further there is a lot software/plug-ins that are not from emagic and that has to be purchased again, in some cases it maybe even doesn't exist for the Mac.

To take really advantage of Logics features you need a performant machine, an iMac is definetaly not enough for pro studios in most cases. All the producers I know have big G4 towers in theír studios. And to be true, they still don't have a chance to compete with a good and fast Windows setup performance-wise. I had the chance once to compare Mac <-> PC in the studio. The PC had a lot more muscles than the Mac and the times when a set-up with Windows gave you several heart-attacks and sleepless nights with loads of coffee are over since a while. That's a myth that we Mac users still want to believe.

And you are right about the rebuild of a working set-up. It is not just installing the software... it's the experience and optimizing of a long time.

35% of all Logic installations are Windows-based. I think it is simply stupid to push them away like this. Those guys are less likely than before now to switch to a Mac, because they feel betrayed by Apple. There is no economical reason to not develop Windows software anymore, it is just marketing.

Don't forget how we Apple users were whining sometimes when a company didn't go on developping a version for the Mac because the market share of MacOS was too little. But at least that still made sense in an economical way. And now Apple is doing the same with the other platform, but only for strenghtening the own platform on the back of approximately 60,000 users that helped emagic to stay healthy as a software company the last few years.

Actually I am not very impressed by Apple's latest moves. There could have been still the possibility to take advantage of all the superior technology under the hood of MacOS X and to convert people that way, by showing how easy it is to do certain things on a Mac compared to PC. Just like "sorry, but that functionality is just available on the Mac, because..."!

Apple should provide performant gear, then the users will come by themselves. But the current tactic reminds me of getting unfair after I found out that I don't have the muscles to win a fight against someone who's stronger than me.

groovebuster

 

[barkmonster]

crossgrade idea

A PC crossgrade could work out fine for people.

If apple made it into a bundled upgrade.

I'm getting these prices from the applestore and digital village in the UK.

let's say it's early next year, logic 5.5 or 6 is due to come out and the PC people using logic 5 are getting really annoyed.

Right now Logic platinum is £579.99 and a brand new G4 is £1350.

Offer them a crossgrade package with a G4, they send their logic install CDs to apple to qualify for the discount then they get this.

G4, standard config, Logic 5.5 or 6 crossgrade: £1,000

That would amount to the cost of a G4 - the cost of logic platinum with a £200 charge for the upgrade.

The PC users would be out of pocket a little but get the latest logic version running on the latest apple hardware as one off offer. Apple wouldn't loose too much on the deal because they've already gained from the original sale of logic and gained another mac user.

By then macs will be using DDR at least so the PC owner can take the hard drive out of their PC and use for an audio drive and use their PCs RAM to boost the mac up, even use their PCs monitor.

It's a bit unrealistic I know but it could be possible as a limited offer to only logic users, having to send you're original PC CDs to apple would stop people from abusing the offer aswell.

Just a thought.

As for the mac and logic.

let's have some RCA audio inputs on the new mac range, you don't need any 3rd party hardware to edit video on a mac, You'll already have a digital video camera already if you want to do stuff like that. I think we should have decent audio on the mac, 48Khz 24bit audio in/out and a seperate circuit for a heaphone socket on the front of the towers, maybe even offering an apple midi interface as a BTO option to go in the modem slot. It's no digital hub if there's no way of capturing audio which is still 99% analogue in nature.

 

[pianojoe]

Pros will happily crossgrade...

I'm sure that Apple will offer a free crossgrade. It's such an easy way to enlarge the installed base of the software AND sell a Macintosh computer at the same time.

As a pro recording studio owner I can say that the cost of the computer hardware is neglectable. You do spend money on

- software & software synths & effects
- downtime.

So, if I had Logic on a PC, I'd rather get me a Mac instead of purchasing and learning DP or Cubase (and never be able to open my old productions again).

To barkmonster: You're absolutely right: Now's the time to bring back a decent audio in!

 

[groovebuster]

Re: Pros will happily crossgrade...

Originally posted by pianojoe

- software & software synths & effects
- downtime.

That was exactly my point! The whole software package has to be purchased again for the Mac.

Changing the platform is causing a lot of downtime, because it takes a while before you get everything running again perfectly. Not to mention the time it takes you to get used to the new environment.

The purchase of the machine is on top of that.

It's summing up!

groovebuster

P.S.: I don't own a studio (except a litte one at home for demos and pre-productions), but I used to work a lot in some. Some of my best friends are producers with their own studios. So I guess I also know some things about the matter.

 

[groovebuster]

Re: Pros will happily crossgrade...

Originally posted by pianojoe
So, if I had Logic on a PC, I'd rather get me a Mac instead of purchasing and learning DP or Cubase (and never be able to open my old productions again).

Why should you? It's not that Logic stops running in September. You keep in on your HD to be able to work with old projects, that's all. If you need some stuff from an old production, there are ways to get the stuff into Cubase or other Tools.

We had the situation not only once that two studios had two different tools they worked with, but they had to collaborate. Now, how did you do that in the past? Or do you just work with people that have exactly the same set-up as you?

groovebuster

 

[drastik]

Originally posted by etoiles
It is interesting to see how the 'weak' guy is always seen as being morally better than the 'strong', oppresive one...

I LAUGH at what is happening, I find it hillarious that wintel users get their pants cut off, but I know that these are pretty tough business practices that would create a scandal if Microsoft was behind them (ok, ok, they do it already, have been all the time).

What is Apple going to do once they reach a respectable market share (I am optimistic) ? It is like a church and state thing, I am not too thrilled about the idea to have hardware, OS and apps coming from the same company...to much control from Apple cannot be good, not even for the mac user.

Arrgghh!
Yes Apple is buying a lot of companies right niow, trying to close the holes. This is a great idea for apple because the market's in the crapper and they can pick this stuff up for cheaper than normal.

AS to M$ compasisions and justuce concerns, this is a completely different situation. M$ uses their OS to make an inhospitiable environment for competeing software in order to drive out that software. Apple not making a PC version of software is the same as any company not making a Mac version, or a PS/2 version for that matter. If any company in the world wants to code a program for Mac OS, Apple is thrilled, and welcomes the competition, they don't try to shut everyone out by bulling manufacturers ( actually themselves ) into placing only Apple Apps on the boxes.

And that, I think is where Apple is going right now. By picking up all these companies, along with releasing great stuff like FCP, Apple is creating a market that hasn't really existed for awhile, High End Pro Software for the Mac. Far from M$, Apple isn't blocking development by others, they are seeding the top secret new OS to developers and saying run with it. Apple is showing the other companies that a market exists for this stuff. Once everyone realizes there's money there, they'll come.

 

[jelloshotsrule]

as i'm not into pro audio much i haven't read every article and everything about the sale... but i don't think this one was mentioned... not necessarily anything groundbreaking, but i figured i may as well share

here's the link

 

[heinzruediger]

hey,

after the Notator Version for the Atari ST ages ago, the company moved on to Emagic and created Logic and Logic Audio only for the Mac. No Windows version for a long time, because of the bad hardware. Of course they came out with a windows version after they created usable soundcards for the pcs, but everyone who earned money using Logic Audio was a Macuser ! All in all it's again Mac only now - where's the problem ?

And I love it, many PC Users were shouting at me, because "they have a much more better PC for running Logic" than me with my trashy Mac. HAHA that's so good !

 

[Marianco]

Logic and other acquisitions

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE Apple's acquisitions!!!!

It is about survival.

There are many other music software developers on the PC Side. No one is stopping them from developing for the PC. Neither is Apple stopping Mac development for companies wanting to create software for the Mac.

However, by insuring the presence of a best of breed music software company developing for the Mac, Apple maintains the existance of the Mac music market. This gives incentive for other developers to continue creating music software for the Mac.

Apple also has a new revenue stream. Apple can also now create a new niche in the consumer market. Wouldn't it be nice to have an iMovie version of Logic for neophytes and education use? Wouldn't this be a great extension of the digital hub?

In this economic downturn, I applaud Apple's acquisitions and encourage more.

 

[Inhale420]

Re: Most PC-Logic users...

Originally posted by groovebuster
... are very pissed about that development. And believe me, they won't switch to the Mac after that. The feel kicked in the ass by Apple.

Before they'll switch to Mac the'll switch to Cubase SX, since they still can use their set-up almost unchanged!

I still doubt if that was a smart move by Apple!!!!

groovebuster

taken personally, i think it's a crappy move by apple, but as far as business is concerned, i really do think this will bring in more apple customers. even with all the backlash.