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Emagic Followup

Re: Re: crossgrade imminent?

Originally posted by groovebuster
Actually I am not very impressed by Apple's latest moves. There could have been still the possibility to take advantage of all the superior technology under the hood of MacOS X and to convert people that way, by showing how easy it is to do certain things on a Mac compared to PC. Just like "sorry, but that functionality is just available on the Mac, because..."!

Apple should provide performant gear, then the users will come by themselves. But the current tactic reminds me of getting unfair after I found out that I don't have the muscles to win a fight against someone who's stronger than me.
Click to expand...
I think it's about time Apple rolled up their sleeves and started playing this game for real. This whole "let's just build something cool and wait for people to come to us" thing has been Apple's standard operating procedure for years, and look at where they are? 5% market share, and shrinking, depending on whose numbers you read. While all of Apple's competitors are out there COMPETING and doing it hard, Apple can't simply sit back and hope that all will be well when people get around to checking out Macintosh at their leisure and somehow "see the light" due to overwhelming technical superiority.

The history of technology is littered with the bodies of companies who assumed that people would just show up at their doorstop just because they had the better technology. To think otherwise is unfortunately naive - it would be wonderful if things worked that way, but in truth, they don't. The old expression "build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door" is totally false in today's marketing-driven world. Now, you not only have to build the better mousetrap, but you also have to almost force people to take a look at your new creation, otherwise they'll say "I already have a mousetrap, I don't need to look at that."

That's why doing something like this, even if it gets Windows users really mad, is okay in my book. It doesn't eliminate competition like M$ does when they buy or try to buy companies (i.e. they tried to buy and eliminate Quicken so that Money would rule the market), since there are still plenty of pro-level sequencers on Windows to choose from, but it does expand Apple's reach in a particular area, and that's what business is all about.

If Apple isn't willing to be a business and operate like one, then we're all in trouble as "Mac faithful". The recent acquisitions seem to me to be a good sign that Apple is willing to fight and be proactive, not just sit around and hope for good things to happen to them. It's not that Apple doesn't have the muscle to fight - it's that they've never used their true muscle before, and now they're actually fighting instead of pleading with the other guy to not hit them in the face while getting hit repeatedly in the face 😀
 
Usually, cutting off support for one version only works when you already have majority share of the market. But I'm not taking this announcement with too much of a feeling that it is completely a lousy idea. I don't think it may have been that wise for them to announce dropping support of the Windows version immediately upon acquisition, if the intent was a hope for a switch.

I think it could still come out as a positive for Apple and eMagic (for whom it already is a plus) AND the customers if handled wisely from this point out. Make an iApp, and keep a pro version of logic. Reduce the price of entry for an interested yet unserved market. There is usually always growth if you take a segment that has in the past been consistantly price gouged as a prosumer/corporate customer and bring that into the gap in the middle.

It helps Apple and eMagic and the customer by keeping a professional level application always available to work with the latest OS tweaks, which merely doesn't happen as quickly otherwise. Apple nearly lost the music/midi/digital audio niche completely in the Amelio/Jobs switchover, this is one way to make sure that the niche is not ignored any longer. It will probably even be good news for Steinberg and Digidesign for the same reason... they will know that apple will keep proper attention on their midi/audio layer now that they have a more personal stake in the segment.
 
This is a business move plain and simple. I have been Music and Studio consultant for years and have seen the entire growth of music software industry. First thing is that all the software manufactures have there +'s and -'s whether it is cubase MOTU or any of the others but over all Logic is the most powerful and creative. Yes it has a step learning curve but that is with Logic Platinum, there other versions, which are much easier to use minus the muscle. The fact that you don't need to run FreeMidi or OMS to have your midi gear work is a blessing sent from God. The little things like unlimited none destructive Quantizing which they have always had. Yes always! Now the other companies have it but it was logic that was the innovator and still is. Don't get me wrong some of the other products have some cool features but not over all. As far as running Logic on the PC or Mac, take the Mac anytime although I make more $ when someone wants it on the PC because getting it running and keeping it running (just like everything else PC) keeps people like me and every other IT tech coming back for more. I work out of NYC and to be honest the majority of the main players in the music industry that are using Logic are using it on a Mac mainly because they're also using ProTools hardware. Macs have always been number one in the Music/Media industry where as Windows is number one in the Business industry it only makes since that Apple would want to cement themselves into that market like Microsoft has done in the Business field. Ever wonder why Microsoft doesn't have Microsoft Project available in Office for the Mac but does for Windows. Because it is one of the most popular serious business apps for Windows. You can go on and on, back and fourth forever on this. I am sure some users will switch to another software then buy a Mac but the few serious players in the industry using a PC will switch to the Mac. The files and environments are interchangeable between the PC and Mac, so if they have a large catalog of material in logic it only makes sense to switch. Most studio owners and producers are about the Music and making money. They don't want to learn a new program or get caught up in the petty I hate Mac or I hate PC game, they just want to make a living.
Okay this is way too much rambling on and on..
 
Top Three?

With this aquisition, aren't the top three midi/audio production packages now almost exclusively the domain of the Mac?
With ProTools sitting at the top (I know there is an NT version, but I haven't heard great things about it), and Digital Performer (Mac only- can be used as a ProTools front-end) and Logic (soon Mac only- can be used as a ProTools front-end) sitting right below?
I've used both Cubase and Cakewalk, and don't consider them on the same level with the above mentioned programs. Cubase on Mac seems barely tolerable, and extremely unstable on PC, Cakewalk is coming along in features, but still doesn't feel proffesional to me.
-Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks like Apple is poised to pretty much own the proffessional and semi-proffesional digital audio market.
-Mac Freak-😀
 
Re: Top Three?

Originally posted by Freakish Mac
With this aquisition, aren't the top three midi/audio production packages now almost exclusively the domain of the Mac?
With ProTools sitting at the top (I know there is an NT version, but I haven't heard great things about it), and Digital Performer (Mac only- can be used as a ProTools front-end) and Logic (soon Mac only- can be used as a ProTools front-end) sitting right below?
I've used both Cubase and Cakewalk, and don't consider them on the same level with the above mentioned programs. Cubase on Mac seems barely tolerable, and extremely unstable on PC, Cakewalk is coming along in features, but still doesn't feel proffesional to me.
-Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks like Apple is poised to pretty much own the proffessional and semi-proffesional digital audio market.
-Mac Freak-😀
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i agree. i'm a Logic user but have tried to get into Cubase but i just didt't like the feel. it is unstable and feels very number-based. DP is nice on the Mac and getting your studio setup is fast and it has the best ReWire implimentation of all of them. but they have been kind of slacking while Logic keeps making strides with the features and stability. Cakewalk Sonar actually has some cool features but it's actually Windows only. see, they have one too ; ) ProTools is ProTools. it's nice to see Apple try to corner this market because musicians have been a very loyal(and patient) customer to Apple and the Mac. Macs are the industry standard and hopefully they will continue to be. now give us 10.2 dammit!
 
Great!... I guess...

To tell you the truth, I have mixed feelings about this.
My first Mac sequencer software was Opcode's Vision 1.3 or something like that (yes, over 10 years). It ran on a Mac SE. It was HEAVEN compared to the Atari's sequencer (can't remember it's name right now).
When Opcode was aquired, they just let it die... yes, they just let it die, not another update, upgrade, nothing.
Then I tried all audio-sequencers out there,and I mean all!
Finally, I chose Logic Platinum because of it's power, it's simplicity (this might sound strange to you, but I got the hang of it quite fast), it's nice interface and the fact that it almost never crashes.
So, when I hear someone has aquired something I tend to get a liiiitle nervous, although I keep saying to myself: "Hey! it's Apple! it's Steve! you can't go wrong with them!" and then a little voice, deep inside me says: "can you?".
I try to keep an optimistic view and say I hope it's for the best!
As for PC compatibility... I don't care and I don't think so... I mean, have you seen a Final Cut Pro for PC? or iTunes for that matter?
One thing for sure is that I can't wait for Logic Platinum in OS X!!
 
All hail Apple!

It would seem as though Apple has finally grown up and learned it's lesson from being slaughtered all these years by M$. The moves Apple has been making recently is just smart business plain and simple. The Mac OS can't survive if developers aren't making top level applications for it. This way Apple insures that there will always be great apps for the Mac platform; a sort of built-in quality control. I applaud Apples latest acquisions and am early to see the high quality apps we as Mac users will get because of them. Let's not forget that Apple has given us some the best damn apps out there for FREE!
 
Just wanted to second that. I expect great things from Apple acquiring E Magic. All of the iApps have incredible user interfaces and functionality and don't even get me started about Final Cut Pro. I think if Apple puts enough development into it (which they seem to have the dough and the right people) Logic could become a superapp like Final Cut and make a Mac a necessity for anyone doing pro audio as it already is for most people doing DV editing.
 
Rock On!

How could you NOT like this!

Apple's acquisitions of late have been great.

Final Cut Pro- Homerun

Astarte- DVD Studio Pro is among the DVD Prod leaders

Spruce- Still unknown what tech comes from this

Digital Film- Apple Cinema Tools for FILM.

Zyante- Firewire..this is a must.

Prismo Graphics- India Titler is awesome! This is great

Shake/Rayz- Compositing Conquerors. Man this is sweet

Emagic- Top Sequencer to show what Core Audio can REALLY do.

Only one tool remains....3D. I predict Apple purchase Maxon Computer and gets Cinema4d. You heard it here first.
 
This addresses the just mentioned comments about video and 3d... Don't underestimate the stubborness of the PC side on these niches regardless of how much it seems a natural for the Mac. Locally, 3D animation is taught on PC networks, because that's where the good CAD tends to be, and the folks involved are either going to be going on to AutoCAD jobs, or perhaps game development.

I overheard a wedding photographer talking about possibly having to start making DVDs for customers instead of VHS copies, and was asking where she could have that done. I said "Buy a Macintosh and it will be a snap..." You should have seen the look she gave me. I suppose I could have anticipated this and offered to do it for her myself, then shown her how easy it was.

Last time I went to a Cubase demo, the room was full of people with AMDs eager to pay and play. And a couple of people who actually knew how to record, asking if the G4, new at the time, was going to be supported. The cool free plug ins at least, were not. There -IS- some cool audio product on the PC side, and the Mac has been hurt during the software and hardware shift. What is available on the mac, isn't hitting the sweetspot of cool powerful app between 100 and 500 dollars- PC owns that niche- and its big.

Acquisition of Emagic is a step in the right direction... Apple can keep something sweet and workable in in the right market position at all times now. It may not have been the best idea for them to mention dropping support to the PC customers right off, but it does give them a warning... Keep your Logic files and buy a Mac? Or switch to Cakewalk, or something decent like Cubase, and learn something new. There still may be Plug-Ins to rebuy or wait for further development.

I've expressed my feeling on the importance of Apple making an iApp from this acquisition before. Free iApps leading up to Smooth Professional Solutions.
 
Integration + Ableton Live

Dear All,

I've been a long-time Cubase user, but this is great news. I for one would definitely switch to Logic once Apple had integrated it with their hardware and added the usual Apple interface flair.

Anyone who's ever struggled with software/extension conflicts - which have a habit of cropping up in audio applications - will appreciate the benefits of having the hardware and software developed by the same company.

While we're on the topic of audio though, anyone who's seriously interested in audio should check out Ableton's excellent Live. You can pick up a demo - free - of it here:

http://www.ableton.com/

This is quite simply the most intuitive program for workign with audio that I've come across. Beat matching is a snap with it making it a possible contender for the basis of a DJ set up. Try it, you won't regret it (BTW, I don't work for Ableton, I run Fallt - http://www.fallt.com - an independent record label).

Best,

Christopher
 
update to emagic's website

This was posted on Emagic's website today. In case you hadn't seen it:


"Emagic offers migration plan to existing Logic 5 Windows users
July 4th 2002

Emagic has always enjoyed a very close relationship with you, the users of our products - regardless of the platform you chose to use. We would like to take this opportunity to thank you very much for your continued loyalty. Together, we have developed Logic into one of the most powerful systems of its kind, and now that Emagic is a member of the Apple family, Logic will become even better. Obviously, the platform does matter now and we would like to cordially invite all Logic Windows users to join us on the Macintosh.

It goes without saying that we will continue to service and support all Logic Windows owners according to the standard product warranty policies beyond September, 30th 2002. The Logic 5.2 subrelease that we recently announced is a perfect example of our commitment to servicing every existing user.

In addition, for those users of Logic 5 on Windows who wish to enjoy all the current and future benefits of Logic running on the Mac platform, Emagic will make a free cross-platform crossgrade available from August 1st. This free crossgrade offer will allow you to keep and use your current Logic 5 Windows version - Logic Audio 5, Gold 5 or Platinum 5 - on Macintosh as well. The offer will be available until December 31st 2002 for every registered Logic 5 Windows user, and details about how to apply will be released shortly. We would certainly be delighted to have you join us on the Mac.

Stay tuned as the next chapter in the success story of Emagic unfolds. This will be a very exciting one."

So, it seems, any Windows users that want to go out and buy a Mac to run Logic, they will all get a copy of Logic for mac. This is what some people in this thread were talking about I think...

I think it will work out.. and btw, they're also rolling out a 5.2 update for all Logic users.
 
Re: Integration + Ableton Live

Originally posted by fallt
Dear All,

I've been a long-time Cubase user, but this is great news. I for one would definitely switch to Logic once Apple had integrated it with their hardware and added the usual Apple interface flair.

Anyone who's ever struggled with software/extension conflicts - which have a habit of cropping up in audio applications - will appreciate the benefits of having the hardware and software developed by the same company.

While we're on the topic of audio though, anyone who's seriously interested in audio should check out Ableton's excellent Live. You can pick up a demo - free - of it here:

http://www.ableton.com/

This is quite simply the most intuitive program for workign with audio that I've come across. Beat matching is a snap with it making it a possible contender for the basis of a DJ set up. Try it, you won't regret it (BTW, I don't work for Ableton, I run Fallt - http://www.fallt.com - an independent record label).

Best,

Christopher
Click to expand...

i personally hope they don't change the Logic interface. Logic actually had a very aqua-like interface before OSX even existed. and yeah, Ableton live is great. i use it for all my live shows. Live, combined with Reason is THE ultimate performance tool. and now they are both OSX ready. i'm gonna go check out your site right now. cheers.
 
news...

as predicted, many Windows Logic users are thoroughly pissed and are talking of switching to Steinberg's Cubase SX. to sweeten the deal Steinberg is offering all registered Logic users the opportunity to crossgrade to Cubase for the silly price of $299, which is a great deal. even better is that the deal includes owners of ALL versions of Logic(Silver, Gold, Platinum) which means even someone using Logic Silver($299) which is the pro low-end version can switch to the high-end version of Cubase for half price. lets see, double the features, half price, no new OS to learn plus they actually get to keep their computer. i think there still may be some converts but ALOT more people would rather spend $299 and a little time learning a new app than dropping $3000 into a new machine and an unfamiliar OS. i wish there was a place for the public to see sales stats. i'm real curious to see what happens with this.
 
I wonder why the figure of $3000 comes up........we're getting to the point where any non-loony Logic or Cubase user can run their studio on the lowest machine in the range, either Mac or PC, and get more stuff going on than Roy Thomas Baker ever could. So what about keeping a sequencer/audio sware you know inside-out and (former PC owners on their next replacement machine) buying a quality preowned Mac , or a new eMac.
Of course, this depends on folks realising that even the latest $1k but 4GHz PC ain't gonna polish a t**d, so maybe there is no hope.
Whatever, I think there'll be a seismic shift in the audio, film and broadcast landscape over the next 18 months, so anyone not thinking Mac over the next 18 months is going to be left feeling like the second-class citizen. Logic users who don't migrate from PCs may wish they had done so.
 
Logic Audio

Is offering a free upgrade to the Mac version so the only thing PC users need to do is

1. Purchase a Mac

2. Replace desired plug ins.


I tend to believe that learning the OS is not the hardest part as most Pro users are in Logic Audio most of the time meaning interaction with the OS is more minimal than in most general uses.

From what I keep reading. Even the SX version of Cubase pales in comparison to the features of Logic Audio...so I'm not sure everyone will be happy.
 
Originally posted by Eliot

Whatever, I think there'll be a seismic shift in the audio, film and broadcast landscape over the next 18 months, so anyone not thinking Mac over the next 18 months is going to be left feeling like the second-class citizen. Logic users who don't migrate from PCs may wish they had done so.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be too sure about it. Apple needs to provide the gear for a reasonable price to do so. Of course they can make quite some money to provide big studios with high-end equipment, but they also need performant stuff for a reasonable price in semi-pro business. If they can't do that the platform is dead faster than we ever would have expected.

So far the software isn't too bad. FCP rocks and I am sure that Logic will be in good hands. But the competetive hardware is missing! As long as there won't be machines that really smoke the Windows PCs and are affordable not only for big studios, but also for home-users and semi-profssional people, I don't expect the seismic shift you are talking about. But maybe that shift is into the other direction then... Something I really don't hope

groovebuster
 
I hear you.
But to save myself from too much one finger typing, look at what I said in the General Discussions threads further down the site in Poll:audio people for a bit more of my thoughts on this. Apologies for no link, I'm only a humble muso with limited computer skills.
 
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