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So you’re saying that any and all 3rd party app stores are unsafe and there’s no malware on the iOS App Store?
Playing a game of mischaracterising what someone said is intellectually speaking, kindergarten level approach - drop it. No one is served well by intentional dumbness.

I’ve made a case tgat platform owner has not just the right to define a process for safety, but actually a responsibility to do so, and with a mandate from the authorities actually to do just that. Which makes this legal claim spurious.

Feel free to to address the case I actually made, instead of constructing a strawman made up your own words, sent off on a different track. Thanks.
 
Telegram is FREE. Why does Telegram care about the developer fee? What I'm thinking is that Durov wants to expand to bots and slide load apps onto the phone with the Telegram app. Which I do not want.

I'm an avid Telegram user, it is the best chat software. Leave it as a chat software. I was worried when they were going to integrate the currency into the app... something I wouldn't use. I just want a fast, reliable, chat application that works with some security. And Telegram is just that.

If Durov wants to side load apps, then do it on Android. He is free to do it and leave us iOS users alone. I'm assuming anyone who wants to load crappy apps use Android anyway.
 
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That depends of how you break down the monopoly term. They don’t have a global device sales monopoly, but a monopoly on their platform.

You would feel very comfortable in the old DDR.
Why talk about the DDR when the UK and US govts for example would like you to use only a censored internet and apps and devices that THEIR backdoors are embedded in.

The presence of a market or multiple actors does not preclude the government overseeing them from still aiming to have a stasi overlooking it all ?

In fact Snowden revelations document that these govts are at a level of information oversight the DDR and Stasi could never dream of.

So if you are reaching back 30-40 years to depict communist bogeymen it says you don’t know the reality of the society you live in today.

Apple is within rights to set rules for its platform and to lock out applications not vetted by it for its platform. It’s just that those platform access rules need to be uniform and equal for all.
 
Developers are forcing me: the ones that doesn't have the same app on the store.
First on the store and then, maybe, on the web.

Exactly this, IF developers were ever allowed to distribute their app outside the App Store, they should also be mandated to distribute it in the app store. People keep saying that no one would force you to download apps outside the App Store, but if Apple is forced to let companies distribute outside the App Store it's not unreasonable that some (especially the bigger companies that think they could get away with it...ex. Spotify) would try and force you only get it from wherever they distribute it from outside the App Store.
 
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Capitalism isn't trying to do me any favours. Its practitioners simply want my money. It's how they go about it that counts.

When I bought my first smartphone last year I looked at Android devices as an option. I could, of course, have chosen to buy whatever product I wanted – and I did. The Android devices used the 'latest tech' and the prices were very competitive. Much easier on the bank balance than Apple's 'equivalent' products. I nevertheless eventually decided to stick with Apple, though, because I am familiar with their way of doing things and I like the standards that the company usually manages to attain. More importantly, I rely on Apple's devices to be robust and secure enough for me to use as the efficient tools they are intended to be. There are far too many scumbags 'out there' ready to scam me one way or another, for example, and lots of inferior products, too. Thus I rely on a company – Apple – that has robust control, as much as it feasibly can have at any rate, over what can be done on and to its devices by users like me, and by others unlike me who actually do not understand their devices sufficiently well enough to use them safely and efficiently.

Apple would be insane to allow an 'opening up' of such a successful, hugely popular and highly reputable way of operating (its company policy, which translates across into its products' behaviour) when it is tried and tested and has been refined over a consistent, extended period of years, and which is an excellent proven alternative to the far less robust and loosely curated open market of Android, for example. The consequence of doing so would be to see Apple devices' perceived reliability and usability profoundly diminished in countless ways by the loss of some of that robust oversight. This might indeed be a success for those like Telegram wanting to sell more apps and gain more market share (in their guise as defenders of free choice) but they certainly don't have the Apple device users' best interests at heart; of anyone, it is of course Apple that tops that particular list.

I am reminded of Blu-ray, – that proverbial 'bag of hurt' Steve Jobs referred to when he declared that it wouldn't be coming to Apple computers any time soon, or at all. Was there a mass exodus to some non-Mac alternative? Nope. It was generally understood by many or most Apple users (those that even knew that it was in fact an 'issue') to be the way Apple chose to operate, and we were free to vote with our wallets or not. Apple's user-base increased steadily as the company's way of doing things continued to evolve and mature.

Do I want the option of Telegram on my iPhone. No thanks – not interested. Do others? Probably. Maybe they should take it up with Telegram and not Apple, because Telegram knows what Apple requires of it to join the Apple-administered party (rather than the all-welcome 'free-for-all' that goes on elsewhere). I'm with Apple. The company's not perfect. I know that. But I've been using the company's products for thirty years and I continue to rely on them to make it a civilised, value-for-money experience in comparison with the other options available. I certainly don't want a bunch of opportunist Apple competitors convincing the 'lawmakers' in the EU that it's for my own good that they tear down that (reasonably) secure Apple walled garden I have chosen and subsequently paid to spend time in. I'm happy for Apple to remain a vigilant gatekeeper. It's partly why they get my money.
 
While I have massive respect for Telegram, demanding that Apple allow the installation from apps from untrusted sources is unacceptable.

This could be a big blow to privacy (the irony!) if Apple is compelled to make this a feature.

Imagine the lay user downloading an app from malicious pop ups thinking it's legitimate.

This is the way software was distributed throughout the 90s and 2000s and even now alongside the Crap Store.

The user has to make a judgement call on who to trust.

It's not like the Crap Store keeps scam apps out, either.

Apple shouldn't be auto-trusted, either (look at the released emails).
 
I am excited how this plays out but I am sure this will take forever and will just be forgotten.

it would be great to have the OPTION to check „allow installing apps from 3rd party sources“ and a pop up quickly explaining the potential risks so Apple isn’t liable.
Yeah that pop up would be great and all, they do it on the mac now, but people don't read them. They're quick to dismiss them and then when something goes wrong with what whatever they installed it's instantly Apple's fault. It'll be exactly the same on iOS.
 
Interesting how companies want to use Apple's platform but not pay Apple any fees.

Clearly companies want their apple pie and to eat it too.

This is not true. Every company that makes software for Apple's platform pays them a developer fee.
 
Why anyone supports this baffles me. There is nothing more Annoying then having to approve developer XYZ to install something outside the MacOS Appstore. You have to "trust" that the software is safe. Are you sure you went to the right website? Is the website secure? (Been scenarios where legitimate websites have been hacked and downloads replaced).

Everyone hates having to install Origin, Epic, Blizzard games stores instead of just having everything though Steam.

So why are people wanting to go to that in iOS?

Okay new phone have to go to 50 webpages to install my base apps. Hope they are all secure.

Let's also not forget lots of us BYOD and have MDM on our personal devices. Do you think they will allow third party apps? They don't allow jailbreaking. Which of your favorite apps won't be accessible anymore when it leaves the appstore? Its a security nightmare on so many levels.
 
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Actually, the complaint is about them not wanting to use their platform.
The complainers want to take advantage of the benefits of the iOS platform but feel entitled to not having to pay the same as the non-complainers pay. I value having Apple do its best to keep my Apple software secure. If I wanted less security, I could use Android.
 
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In a complaint to the EU Commission, the app's creators argue that Apple must give iOS users the opportunity to download software outside of the App Store.

Wow. What a Pandora's box that would be. One of the two big reasons there are comparatively few security issues with iOS as compared to Android is because of the an enforced, curated store.
 
Possibly not for long with the launch of the ARM Mac. Could be the elimination of third party apps.
That is the biggest FUD statement I have seen in some time. Many Macs are used by professionals using professional 3rd party software. If Apple were to do what you suggest they would lose all of those clients as well as the aspirational users who no longer see Macs used in their industry. Never mind that the App Store is FULL of third party apps in iOS, TVOS, iPadOS and MacOS that have nothing to do with Pros of any kind. Oh wait, and Apple has already demonstrated third party apps working on the ARM computers and is developing Rosetta 2 for those who do not want to / cannot update their software.

Why would you even make this statement?
 
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Some generic answers to the BS statements that some people here delivered:
  • You don't get privacy from a walled garden. That's nothing to do with this.
  • The App-Store is also a censoring institution only allowing content they deem acceptable.
  • The security benefit is provided by app-store review NOT by the walled garden.
    • Apple could still sign Apps that are distributed outside the app-store and charge for the review ("Trusted Apps"). In fact, that's exactly what code signing is good for. If you don't know that is you're not qualified for the discussion. Educate yourself. Then come back.
  • 95% of the Security is provided by the OS sandbox and API. App-Store Review is the cherry on the cake.
  • App-Store and sideloading is not a binary choice. You can have both.
    • You have the respective switches on a Mac if you want to allow apps downloaded from the web.
    • Most people would still use the App-Store, even if it's 20% more expensive. Apple underestimates the lazyness of people...
  • It works like that on literally every other plattform, including MacOS. Yet no one claimed MacOS is such an insecure plattform because there's an option to manually install apps.
  • Developers don't want to use Apples eco system. They want to reach the customer. For that they are forced through the App-Store.
  • Yes, the app-store is beneficial for small app developers. Bigger players, especially the really large ones, like Netflix don't need or even want it. For them it's highway robbery.
I'm really surprised how many people defend an anti-democratic concept of an enforced, closed and strictly regulated market with a 30% tax.
 
This is not true. Every company that makes software for Apple's platform pays them a developer fee.
And look at what they receive in return. The fee is 99 dollars a year. Do you really believe that Apple makes any money on that? They provide so many developer services for that fee that they are surly loosing money on it.
As for the store, you set up a way to sell billions of apps, provide all of the resources and employees to test and vet the apps, run the massive and immense content distribution networks,
Provide both marketing services to 1.4 billion customers, and pay and manage all of the credit card fees for all of those sales. Then you can come tell us how “fair” a 30% fee is.
 
This is what I was thinking too regarding encrypted messages. Who needs that other than corporates (that have their own encryption systems anyway)?
As of April 2020, they had 400 million users, so all of these people are hackers? Ok, sure :rolleyes:. I use it and like it a lot. I like the fact that you need a code sent to you on text to even log in (and you can also set a password). I like the features that iMessaga lack, I like that it's cross platform that I can log into ANY device (Mac, Windows, Linux, Android, and even web) and use it. You don't care about privacy, cool, good for you. I own a very small business and I can't afford my own encryption system, and why would I want too anyways? I also use Signal as well, another great encrpyted cross platform messaging app.

“Arguing that you don’t care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say.” - Edward Snowden
 
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Really got to question the motives here. Apple get the princely $100 a year from Telegram.
Telegram spends ton on servers and services and commitment to its customers. Apple doesn’t contribute in its overhead, or for that matter no other companies hardwork in keeping its customers happy. It is only interested in 30% cut on revenues. Even governments have better hearts 🤣
 
Apple only have 25% of the Global Mobile Market, and only 18% of the Global Desktop Market, how is that monopoly abuse?

It's not. Even in the US they have barely more than 50% and it's even lower in Europe. There are parts of Asia and LATAM where basically no one has an iPhone.

You can't abuse a monopoly you don't have. Apple's response to Telegram should be simple: "We encourage users who would prefer not to leverage Apple's mandated privacy requirements for App Store apps to download the app without the App Store, on Android."
 
My comment was on the use of the word "suddenly."

And in the unlikely event that a natural catastrophe wiped out a global company the size of Apple, we are all in a world of hurt.
The *suddenly* was to highlight the power they got over time, and that they are in possession of a kill switch for over 2 billion devices, which i find even worse than the App store discussion. No company should ever be allowed to have a kill switch over that many consumer devices, it’s a huge issue.
 
"an example of Apple's capacity to curb innovation thanks to its 'monpolistic power' on the app market."

LOL. What monopoly? In many markets it is 10%. Does anyone ask SONY and MS to be able to install any games?
 
I don’t want to side load apps either - but this isn’t about customers. This is about devs and dev companies that are struggling to survive in an already tough economy

Have you, or anyone, looked at what developers would have to pay to make they products available in the same way? To replicate the services Apple provides for this 30%. How they would get word of their product to end users for example or the cost of the bandwidth to support downloads, the costs of taking small payments and how they would distribute updates to users?

It seems to me that there are a lot of services that Apple is covering here that developers would need to provide, pay for and manage themselves, taking time away from doing product development and possibly missing out on economies of scale that Apple can achieve.
 
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