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Because the app needs to tie in to the reporting/health agency for the country in question...

There are many ways to “tie in” an app with other systems, in a generic but flexible manner. You could, for example, give national health agencies the facility to subscribe to event hub notifications. As for a generic app, it would probably be far simpler to implement than something like the Apple Pay or an online payment processor (which has to deal with numerous card processing entities).
 
This still is not out? Wow. I thought germany was late but our (great) app has been out for a good while now.
I feel like all countries should just use it.
 
Nhs technology has always always always been delayed, over priced and not fit for purpose. This app is no exception.

I have worked for the NHS for over 15 years, and every initiative with tech is flawed. Look at the infamous 'system one'. At a cost of £10Bn and still barely functiona.
 
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So, what’re we talking here?

Would the Apple/Google API incorrectly include people who are 2.5 or 3m away as if they were within 2m?

Because if so, I don’t care. Perfect is the enemy of good.
The problem is not 2.5 or 3m but people that are say 10 metres away. Bluetooth was never built for measuring distance. In fact it’s built to maintain a strong connection over longer distances, which makes it harder to use signal strength to determine distance.

The UK engineers were really clever in how they built their algorithms to measure distance, so I hope Google and Apple copy it into the API for everyone’s benefit.
 
Nhs technology has always always always been delayed, over priced and not fit for purpose. This app is no exception.

I have worked for the NHS for over 15 years, and every initiative with tech is flawed. Look at the infamous 'system one'. At a cost of £10Bn and still barely functiona.
System One is not NHS and it certainly didn’t cost £10bn. You’re mixing it up with NHS Connecting for Care.
[automerge]1597271721[/automerge]
 
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How about this: I don't even want the API on my phone, seriously, this is a dangerous slippery slope to head down, granted I am coming at this from a U.S. perspective, but this is a bad, bad idea that invades privacy in the worst possible way with what will be the worst possible outcomes.
Just disable the API in settings, and turn off your bluetooth. Bluetooth is always broadcasting anyway, so you could be tracked that way as well.
 
The problem is not 2.5 or 3m but people that are say 10 metres away. Bluetooth was never built for measuring distance. In fact it’s built to maintain a strong connection over longer distances, which makes it harder to use signal strength to determine distance.

The UK engineers were really clever in how they built their algorithms to measure distance, so I hope Google and Apple copy it into the API for everyone’s benefit.
Apple calibrates the the RSSI in their phones and its pretty accurate, I wrote an app that used bluetooth to calculate distances and it was usually accurate within a foot or so. Android had to go and test the RSSI of a bunch on devices to get the RSSI correct. Both are accurate enough to know if you within a couple of meters or not, it's not going to say that someone 10 meters away is within 2 meters.
 
Why on Earth can’t someone (e.g. Apple) develop an app that can be used in any country? What does the England app do that is so unique? I live in England but I’m on holiday in Scotland just now. That‘s a spanner in the works.
Will you 14 day self quarantine?
 
The problem is not 2.5 or 3m but people that are say 10 metres away. Bluetooth was never built for measuring distance. In fact it’s built to maintain a strong connection over longer distances, which makes it harder to use signal strength to determine distance.

The UK engineers were really clever in how they built their algorithms to measure distance, so I hope Google and Apple copy it into the API for everyone’s benefit.

...then how do I unlock my Mac with my Apple Watch? I have to be sat at the machine (or at least well within 2 metres) for it to work.
 
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Why on Earth can’t someone (e.g. Apple) develop an app that can be used in any country? What does the England app do that is so unique? I live in England but I’m on holiday in Scotland just now. That‘s a spanner in the works.
Because different region have different public health regulations, and there’s no way to make an app that have every possible combination of the configurations required.
 
Will you 14 day self quarantine?
I am not sick and have no Covid symptoms. Why would I self quarantine? I am taking all necessary social distancing measures. Some background information for the holier-than-thou: my hotel in Scotland is going to extraordinary lengths to protect the staff and guests. Including room sterilisation but no room servicing during the stay, mandatory skin temperature sensor in the lobby, cutlery in sterile packs... Mostly, having a break in Scotland is about taking hikes in the countryside where you can go a whole day without seeing another soul.
 
Because different region have different public health regulations, and there’s no way to make an app that have every possible combination of the configurations required.
That sounds like defeatist nonsense to me. A suitably engineered app would provide hooks for subscribing authorities to implement their own workflow where required.
 
Why on Earth can’t someone (e.g. Apple) develop an app that can be used in any country? What does the England app do that is so unique? I live in England but I’m on holiday in Scotland just now. That‘s a spanner in the works.
What Apple and Google have developed is an API that measures how close phones are to each other and for how long. It is used for medical purposes, but the API itself has nothing to do with health. Therefore it doesn't need to pass any health regulations.

What you suggest would be a health application. And Apple would need permission and pass the regulations in every country. That's ten times harder than creating the API.
 
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i have had the german version installed for a while on my iPhone now and i honestly wonder how many people actually upload their positive test results (yes, you actually have to do that manually in many cases because a lot of health offices (?) are not up to the digital times yet and cannot provide you with a simple QR-Code)

The whole QR code thing also massively helps privacy. It also solves the issue of "different countries, different heath offices". Every country could use this german app because it's data protection is probably miles above any app you have on your phone (literally ANY APP). All you need is give the person a unique QR code that tells the App it was positively tested, everyone that had long enough contact gets info - DONE.
Instead you got states in the USA doing their own thing and big countries in Europe still not having a app...

The amount of disinformation in this topic is astounding.

It's still just the internet i guess.
 
...then how do I unlock my Mac with my Apple Watch? I have to be sat at the machine (or at least well within 2 metres) for it to work.
Two things:
1. First, the problem is false positives (devices farther away from each other being treated as if you’re close) meaning theoretically you could be more than a metre away from your Mac (say 5m) and still have a ‘false positive’ of your Mac thinking you’re closer than that. It doesn’t make a huge difference to your experience of unlocking your Mac, so long as every time you’re close, it thinks you’re close. The Germans published their research about this. There are bizarre situations like within buses where sometimes the signal appears stronger the farther away two phones are from each other.

2. iPhones are all relatively premium devices, and Apple always used high quality Bluetooth chips. But the Google Apple API is meant to work on the vast majority of phones in use today. For Android phones, that includes some really cheap phones with Bluetooth chips that give very poor data on signal strength. For such phones you have to be much cleverer to get something useful, especially when it’s a decentralised mode where distance estimates are being calculated on the device itself, rather than in the cloud, where theoretically you can use data from both phones in contact.

I’m wondering out loud, but I wonder if a future iteration of the API will use the U chips (ultra wide band) where available assuming that doesn’t have an adverse effect on battery life.
 
Over = vaccine.
Borris, Trump and other buffoons that got elected because "WTF do i know" got very little to do with that.
They have everything to do with it: making decisions to keep the economy in as good a position as possible while preventing the virus from spreading. Neither of these clowns made any good decisions and still continue to blunder everything. Meanwhile, many of the sensible leaders have kept their economies above water *and* managed to suppress the virus through good public guidance.

To say The UK and US would be in the same state they are now regardless of who was in charge or what direction was taken is just ridiculous.
 
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Two things:
1. First, the problem is false positives (devices farther away from each other being treated as if you’re close) meaning theoretically you could be more than a metre away from your Mac (say 5m) and still have a ‘false positive’ of your Mac thinking you’re closer than that. It doesn’t make a huge difference to your experience of unlocking your Mac, so long as every time you’re close, it thinks you’re close. The Germans published their research about this. There are bizarre situations like within buses where sometimes the signal appears stronger the farther away two phones are from each other.
Of course, this system will have false positives. But so has any other method identifying candidates for a COVID-19 test and/or quarantining, like symptomatic people, travelers from high-risk areas, front-line workers, or manually contact-traced people. Given that the positivity rate (percentage of people taking a COVID-19 test actually testing positive) in countries which have things reasonably under control tends to be in the range of 5%, any additional method generating testing candidates with a false positive rate as high as 90% would actually be an improvement in the usefulness of the deploying of testing resources.
 
Of course, this system will have false positives. But so has any other method identifying candidates for a COVID-19 test and/or quarantining, like symptomatic people, travelers from high-risk areas, front-line workers, or manually contact-traced people. Given that the positivity rate (percentage of people taking a COVID-19 test actually testing positive) in countries which have things reasonably under control tends to be in the range of 5%, any additional method generating testing candidates with a false positive rate as high as 90% would actually be an improvement in the usefulness of the deploying of testing resources.
The publicly available information suggests that the rate of false positives may be too high to be confident to tell people to isolate. You can inform people that they may have been exposed and should look out for symptoms and get tested, but if only 1% of people being notified are genuinely exposed, you could end up in a situation where practically everyone in the country is permanently being told to isolate, which defeats the whole point of the app, so I can understand the caution of just alerting people and not asking them to isolate, until the accuracy is at least as good as other methods.
 
The publicly available information suggests that the rate of false positives may be too high to be confident to tell people to isolate. You can inform people that they may have been exposed and should look out for symptoms and get tested, but if only 1% of people being notified are genuinely exposed, you could end up in a situation where practically everyone in the country is permanently being told to isolate, which defeats the whole point of the app, so I can understand the caution of just alerting people and not asking them to isolate, until the accuracy is at least as good as other methods.
Close to 20 million people have downloaded the app in Germany, I have seen zero reports of practically everone of them being permanently told to isolate. There simply isn’t any data supporting your, I might say, wild speculations.

Can you point me to any kind of data that is not purely anecdotal? There is a big difference between the technical possibility of false positives and a statement that likely 99% of all positives are false positives.
 
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They have everything to do with it: making decisions to keep the economy in as good a position as possible while preventing the virus from spreading. Neither of these clowns made any good decisions and still continue to blunder everything. Meanwhile, many of the sensible leaders have kept their economies above water *and* managed to suppress the virus through good public guidance.

To say The UK and US would be in the same state they are now regardless of who was in charge or what direction was taken is just ridiculous.
I'd suggest you look back in 12 months time, and then see how this pans out. To expect Politicians to immediately be all over this is naive. I work in Healthcare and amongst the senior doctors, anaesthetists and intensivists, there is a no clear pathway forward.
The negative and typical response to blame anyone you can, doesn't help. Go out and do some charity work, learn the importance of empathy and compassion.
 
I'd suggest you look back in 12 months time, and then see how this pans out. To expect Politicians to immediately be all over this is naive. I work in Healthcare and amongst the senior doctors, anaesthetists and intensivists, there is a no clear pathway forward.
The negative and typical response to blame anyone you can, doesn't help. Go out and do some charity work, learn the importance of empathy and compassion.

I don’t expect any government to be perfect but I expect them to do better than America or the U.K have. A bit like other comparable countries actually have done. You are doing the typical thing of assuming everyone criticising governments expected them to be perfect. We just (rightly) expect better.

I have plenty of compassion for the avoidable deaths and job losses, less so for the politicians making the decisions.
 
Close to 20 million people have downloaded the app in Germany, I have seen zero reports of practically everone of them being permanently told to isolate. There simply isn’t any data supporting your, I might say, wild speculations.

Can you point me to any kind of data that is not purely anecdotal? There is a big difference between the technical possibility of false positives and a statement that likely 99% of all positives are false positives.

According to the news, even the best application of the Google Apple API today achieves a 45% false positive rate, where 45% of people picked up as close contacts are NOT close contacts. That means for every 11 actual close contacts you pick, you pick an additional 9 people who are not close contacts. Bear in mind even those 11 close contacts are not necessarily people at a genuine risk of COVID. From this perspective, you can understand why some public health authorities will not want to force people to isolate on this account, and would instead prefer to alert people and ask them to be cautious.

 
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