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Why is everyone questioning EPEAT's motives as if iFixit doesn't have any motive of it's own? They're not completely objective in this matter.

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I will never EVER buy a computer from Apple that's not fully recyclable. They should really be ashamed, putting design as a priority over environment? Would Steve have stood for this? They should just discontinue the retina MacBook, and apologize (which they've gotten good at recently). Will the 13" have the same non-recyclability? I'm really starting to hate this company.

What Apple computer isn't recyclable? :confused:
 
So, if I read this right, they lowered the standards so apple would come back?

no. no, you didnt read it right at all. we're terribly sorry.

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The first thing to need replacing in laptops is the battery and as iFixit showed the retina MBP battery is a nightmare to change, which pretty much makes it a disposable computer.

logic fail. most people, which are not techies like readers on this forum, will simply bring it in (or send out) to apple for the $200 battery repair service. this price includes parts and labor and is pretty reasonable. i spend way more on routine maintenance for my auto, and i bet you do as well.

so, why you would "dispose" of your laptop in a few years when it needs a minor $200 service is beyond me. too much "disposable" income?

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In fairness, EOL disassembly is at least loosely linked to user serviceability. Its the glueing things together that caused servicing issues on the rMBP and the same issue will apply to EOL disassembly and recycling. Ideally at the end of life you need to be able to separate the nasty battery away from elements that are worth recycling.

there is absolutely no issue here. apple will take every single EOL rMBP and do the due diligence for the EOL disassembly and recycling. why one would even consider doing it themselves is a mystery...

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I will never EVER buy a computer from Apple that's not fully recyclable. They should really be ashamed, putting design as a priority over environment? Would Steve have stood for this? They should just discontinue the retina MacBook, and apologize (which they've gotten good at recently). Will the 13" have the same non-recyclability? I'm really starting to hate this company.

you are completely delusional on this -- the rMBR is one of their most recyclable laptops. did you read the story?

as for bringing up phantom-Jobs -- just...stop. you dont know what youre talking about.
 
What exactly does EPEAT do?

Is this more of a marketing thing to make us consumers feel better about buying laptops, computers, phone etc that will eventually end up on another countries landfills?

Well, as was written in another post, when Apple the San Fran government refused to buy any Apple computers unless they were posted on EPEAT. This was probably one of the biggest reasons they backlashed. I personally believe it is important for them to have an actual standard their products are following instead of just listening to Apple say they are environmentally friendly.
 
Honestly id like to see what happen to a MacBook or iMac when Apple take it back in their recycling program.

Because, yes Apple make some "small and hard to dissassemble" devices, but they also don't make a lot of different devices. So it cannot be very hard for them do disassemble them very efficiently in chain since they know they will get tons of the same models.

On the opposite side, consider a maker like Samsung, Dell, Sony (etc). They have so many different models for everything they do, it must be way harder to manage an efficient recycling program.

This is just speculation. If someone want to "refute" me, feel free :p
 
Yep and EPEAT is basically saying that such ire is not part of the standard and never will be. So long as things can be repaired, even if just by the manufacturer, they don't care that some yahoos can't sell stuff for folks to F up their stuff on their own. Especially when that means a trashed computer possibly going into a landfill cause Apple won't replace/repair something an unauthorized person touched.

That isn't actually true. They won't cover certain things under warranty. The use of things like pentalobe screws in the past was meant to lock users out of areas that were not considered user serviceable.


Truth is that that I think that the withdrawal etc was all on purpose. Apple created a laptop that has a strong lifespan and they can disassemble and are likely already sorting out the details of a program to do just this well before it should be necessary.

That has yet to be determined. Given its price I would hope so. It's just too early to know how these will hold up over several years.

Well yes - as now just illustrated. Since EPEAT is willing to move goalposts due to pressure from their new BFF (and other computer manufacturers) - the value is diminished.

I haven't read through all of their documentation. Have you? These things are often quite complex, and news articles don't deliver enough information to make a real determination on whether they've maintained such standards.
 
Why is everyone questioning EPEAT's motives as if iFixit doesn't have any motive of it's own? They're not completely objective in this matter.

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What Apple computer isn't recyclable? :confused:

The 15" Retina Macbook Pro is not recyclable at all. The lower casing has batteries that are glued directly to the case and cannot be removed without tearing them open. Also, the screen is fastened to the upper casing and cannot be removed. It's all the Apple quality, but at the cost something Apple has supposedly said was important to them, which is the affect on the environment.

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no. no, you didnt read it right at all. we're terribly sorry.

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logic fail. most people, which are not techies like readers on this forum, will simply bring it in (or send out) to apple for the $200 battery repair service. this price includes parts and labor and is pretty reasonable. i spend way more on routine maintenance for my auto, and i bet you do as well.

so, why you would "dispose" of your laptop in a few years when it needs a minor $200 service is beyond me. too much "disposable" income?

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there is absolutely no issue here. apple will take every single EOL rMBP and do the due diligence for the EOL disassembly and recycling. why one would even consider doing it themselves is a mystery...

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you are completely delusional on this -- the rMBR is one of their most recyclable laptops. did you read the story?

as for bringing up phantom-Jobs -- just...stop. you dont know what youre talking about.

I'd greatly appreciate it if you could point out in the article where it says the rmbp is one of their most recyclable laptops ever, I see that it's able to be disassembled but that tells me nothing. All I saw was the EPEAT trying to run away from any responsibility of their certifications, absolutely embarrassing.
 
The 15" Retina Macbook Pro is not recyclable at all. The lower casing has batteries that are glued directly to the case and cannot be removed without tearing them open. Also, the screen is fastened to the upper casing and cannot be removed. It's all the Apple quality, but at the cost something Apple has supposedly said was important to them, which is the affect on the environment.

No. Ifixit have claimed that THEY had problems removing the battery without tearing it open, on the first day they had one, when one presumes their priority was getting into it fast so that they could post their "tear down" photos (the hint is in the name...). Apple can disassemble one completely and without damage.

I'd greatly appreciate it if you could point out in the article where it says the rmbp is one of their most recyclable laptops ever, I see that it's able to be disassembled but that tells me nothing. All I saw was the EPEAT trying to run away from any responsibility of their certifications, absolutely embarrassing.

EPEAT doesn't appear to be running away from anything: they've posted a lot of info on their website, explaining their criteria in some detail. That's the reason for this article: were they running away from it, the article (ironically) wouldn't have had opportunity to be written.

If you have a look on the EPEAT site, and find the page which details Apple's computers (http://ww2.epeat.net/PublicSearchResults.aspx?return=pm&epeatcountryid=1&manufacturer=32), you'll find that the rMBP rates 21/25 on the "optional" criteria, which is as high as or higher than any of their other machines. It is perfectly reasonable therefore to claim it's one of their most recyclable computers ever. Indeed, if you look at ALL products from ALL manufacturers (http://ww2.epeat.net/publicsearchresults.aspx?return=searchoptions&epeatcountryid=1), you'll find that there are only four machines with a higher rating, and none of them are laptops.

The only thing that I find "absolutely embarrassing" in this thread is the number of people commenting without actually having done even a modicum of research.
 
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theres nothing wrong w/ the service iFixIt provides; have used it myself. the problem is when their CEO, Kyle, writes publicized articles on WIRED claiming that apple fudged their specs in order to get their products based. the reality, as this article points out, is different from his story. he seems to be confusing user-repairability w/ recyclability and end-of-life (EOL) design. he profits from one of those goals but not the other.
Its not that Apple fudged their specs, its that epeat watered down their standards for Apple. If you read the whole editorial, you'd see that thats exactly the case. Epeat had three requirements: upgradability, fixability, EOL disassembly. Apparently, they fudged it so that all you needed was a USB port to qualify for being upgradable. Really... don't all gadgets come with some type of port? And somehow, glue isn't a negative for EOL dissambly? Fishy? You bet it is.
 
Some people seem to think there's some bias when an iFixit guy is criticising the upgradablility and fixability of a product. They think its in the interest of the speaker to over criticise, for personal gain. Not the case here. Its actually in the Epeat standards to require these things, upgradability and fixability. And who better to judge if said products passes these standards than the people who tear down gadgets?
 
So EPEAT is the FDA now? Another sticker to chuckle at. Pretty much just create a "green" division in your own company and rate away. "It's a brand, not a serious rating". Like wine or fact checking political bodies. I fixit actually wins as they sell pentalobe screws and screwdrivers. Only place outside of depot. The more locked down, the more they actually corner the market not the other way around people. Their motivation is straight Linux soul. The apologists can't take the light of truth. Nothings wrong with feeling bad (a little) at your slightly evil purchase. Just don't apologize for them (Apple) to make it OK.
 
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Unfortunately, you're right — the original idea is of course that an independent agency would evaluate different products based on their environmental impact, so consumers could choose accordingly. But now that the standards themselves have been watered down to the point where an essentially non-servicable item like the MBP Retina make the cut, well, it does just become a rubber stamp.

Clearly, this is a money-based decision. Apple and others started making products that didn't fit the standards, so they changed the standards — particularly after many government agencies announced they would no longer be able to purchase Apple because they pulled out of EPEAT — because their own guidelines require that certification. So Apple rejoined, but apparently saw to it that the standards would be lowered.

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Exactly the problem. Everybody wants shiny toys, but they're made out of dirty, dirty things, using a lot of coal energy, by very poor people who aren't always treated particularly well.

How long do you think we'll be able to keep this up?

The idea behind a registry like EPEAT is to institute some standards for re-usability, upgradability, servicability — so that something can actually be upgraded and kept useful instead of being shredded. Of course if the standards themselves are up for sale, then the biggest players can just rewrite the rules as they go.

The standards did not change. So pretty much all one thousand words you clacked out are wrong.
 
No. Ifixit have claimed that THEY had problems removing the battery without tearing it open, on the first day they had one, when one presumes their priority was getting into it fast so that they could post their "tear down" photos (the hint is in the name...). Apple can disassemble one completely and without damage.

I'm shocked at how you can so quickly dismiss someones assumptions (ifixits, who has disassembled hundreds of computers), and insert your own. I've never seen or heard anything that shows different.


EPEAT doesn't appear to be running away from anything: they've posted a lot of info on their website, explaining their criteria in some detail. That's the reason for this article: were they running away from it, the article (ironically) wouldn't have had opportunity to be written.

If you have a look on the EPEAT site, and find the page which details Apple's computers (http://ww2.epeat.net/PublicSearchResults.aspx?return=pm&epeatcountryid=1&manufacturer=32), you'll find that the rMBP rates 21/25 on the "optional" criteria, which is as high as or higher than any of their other machines. It is perfectly reasonable therefore to claim it's one of their most recyclable computers ever. Indeed, if you look at ALL products from ALL manufacturers (http://ww2.epeat.net/publicsearchresults.aspx?return=searchoptions&epeatcountryid=1), you'll find that there are only four machines with a higher rating, and none of them are laptops.

The only thing that I find "absolutely embarrassing" in this thread is the number of people commenting without actually having done even a modicum of research.

Earlier you stated that the rdmb is one of the most recyclable laptops, you have failed to prove that. You have offered nothing to this discussion except what we already know. Yes, the rdmb scored as a gold standard; this topic has to do with the competence of the rating system. Please work on your focus and comprehension before you go around judging other people.
 
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the goalposts havent "moved", son, since theyre the exact sam written spec as yesterday. only thing has changed is youre now aware of what they actually say.

that is, that theyre concerned w/ proper disassembly & recycling at End of Life; not third-party repair yahoos.

doh.

This seems reasonable given what the statement says, but I think the goal posts have in some ways moved. But this is also a good thing.

I believe the main goals of EPEAT are to get the nasty materials out of computers, so they're less toxins to handle in disassembly. I think the standard has been very successful in promoting this broadly and causing industry wide change.

BUT, upgradeability, repair and end of life are confounded. If something is in need of repair, but it can't be repaired, it becomes "end of life." Is that what you think EPEAT intends? Disposable retina mac book pros?

The criteria EPEAT uses are here:
http://www.epeat.net/resources/criteria-discussion/

EPEAT criteria reflect several categories of environmental attributes that cover the full lifecycle of electronic products. The 1680.1 PC and Display standard addresses:

Reduction/elimination of environmentally sensitive materials
Material selection
Design for end of life
Product longevity/life extension
Energy conservation
End-of-life management
Corporate performance
Packaging

Given these dimensions, I beleive an rMBP could be great on nearly all but life extension.
 
In fairness, EOL disassembly is at least loosely linked to user serviceability. Its the glueing things together that caused servicing issues on the rMBP and the same issue will apply to EOL disassembly and recycling. Ideally at the end of life you need to be able to separate the nasty battery away from elements that are worth recycling.

Not really.

It seems few people know that laptop battery packs in the last 15 years are all glued together anyways. Glue might cause servicing issues for people who don't know how to remove it safely like that iFixit guy, but glue doesn't matter much to the recycler.

There's several methods of guaranteeing safety when trying to rip lithium polymer batteries for disposal. One that even any of us can do is puncturing them in a bath of common table salt and water.

The rMBP is most definitely hard to repair but definitely very easy to recycle.
 
BUT, upgradeability, repair and end of life are confounded. If something is in need of repair, but it can't be repaired, it becomes "end of life." Is that what you think EPEAT intends? Disposable retina mac book pros?

This just makes me sick. What kind of idiot would think that customers treat a Retina MBP as disposable?

I use one every day. It was bought with 16 GB of RAM. Other laptops have upgradable RAM, which means they can be upgraded from say 4 GB to 16 GB. That's it. So why would I complain that the RAM cannot be upgraded when I already have as much as the maximum upgrade anyone has? And the SSD drive _is_ upgradeable, so that's it.

The other complaint is the battery. Yes, upgrading the battery costs money. Upgrading the battery on older MacBooks also cost money. It was cheaper, but not much, and the Retina MBP has a 95 Wh battery, much bigger than the cheaper MacBook batteries. So the difference is that I'll take the Retina MBP to a store when the battery needs changing.

Do you think anyone would dispose of a Retina MBP when the battery is dead? What kind of idiots do you think people are? For a start, a retina MBP with a dead battery is a very fine desktop computer and works as a laptop absolutely fine when its plugged in. My 2006 MacBook has had a dead battery for the last three years. First dead battery was replaced, second dead battery wasn't. It's in heavy use every single day with a dead battery.

I find it absolutely annoying when people keep on blindly repeating things that they read like "disposable Retina MBP" without actually thinking about what they are reading.
 
No one cares. We just want shiny toys.

This is why these standards exist, because large organizations and govenment can use them as a simple yard stick to decide what to buy to at least limit their purchases impact on the environment. If we all just go on not giving a s*1t we are all going to end up in the s*1t.
 
I'm shocked at how you can so quickly dismiss someones assumptions (ifixits, who has disassembled hundreds of computers), and insert your own. I've never seen or heard anything that shows different.

That's because you haven't actually read anything that anyone else has said in this thread, Apple's own statements, Epeats, etc. Ifixit may have experience in this field, but they are also a lone voice in this particular argument.

Earlier you stated that the rdmb is one of the most recyclable laptops, you have failed to prove that. You have offered nothing to this discussion except what we already know. Yes, the rdmb scored as a gold standard; this topic has to do with the competence of the rating system. Please work on your focus and comprehension before you go around judging other people.

I stated nothing earlier. Look at my posting history: my post this morning was the first I've made in these fora for almost a month.

My focus and comprehension are fine: you seem to be the one jumping to conclusions here, based upon one article from one company with a vested interest in persuading people to purchase machines that can be easily repaired by them, rather than by the original manufacturer.
 
Epeat's another company cashing in on bogus claims for the environment; same as the crap Al Gore instigated and profited handsomely from. I'm going to start my own and get on the bandwagon. Every time you fart, you have to pay me a carbon credit. It is entirely self-regulating. Call it Mobile Gaseous Emission Initiative, or MGEI.
 
The 15" Retina Macbook Pro is not recyclable at all. The lower casing has batteries that are glued directly to the case and cannot be removed without tearing them open. Also, the screen is fastened to the upper casing and cannot be removed. It's all the Apple quality, but at the cost something Apple has supposedly said was important to them, which is the affect on the environment.


You seem to be getting confused by the terms 'recyclable' and 'serviceable'.

The Retina machine is recyclable by Apple, but is not serviceable by iFixit, which is why iFixit is making such a fuss.

When iFixit tries to break apart the machine, their main aim is to be able to rebuild it again. That is how they make their money.

When Apple gets back a machine for recycling then they will most probably break it up without caring if it can be rebuilt. All they care about is that the parts can be separated out, melted down and used to build something else.
 
The reality is I think a lot of people confuse "environmentally friendly" with "(user) serviceable." The two are not interchangeable. Just because, for example, a screen can't be repaired, doesn't mean it can't be safely disposed of.

Personally, I'm not a fan of these certification groups b/c it's a form of blackmail. We saw this when Apple attempted to leave EPEAT. But when Apple left, did they do so b/c they cared less about the environment? I doubt it. They left because EPEAT was interfering with their ability to innovate based on EPEAT's outdated criteria.
 
The first thing to need replacing in laptops is the battery and as iFixit showed the retina MBP battery is a nightmare to change, which pretty much makes it a disposable computer. The air faired better. My 2006 MBP is on its third battery, 2nd hard drive and had one ram upgrade. I have bought a 2012 air but wouldn't have done without knowing I could change the battery and SSD.

You are right. Battery slipped my mind since I always seem to be near a plug, even when I fly.
 
Epeat's another company cashing in on bogus claims for the environment; same as the crap Al Gore instigated and profited handsomely from. I'm going to start my own and get on the bandwagon. Every time you fart, you have to pay me a carbon credit. It is entirely self-regulating. Call it Mobile Gaseous Emission Initiative, or MGEI.

Definitely interested.

Please post criteria:

Sneaky vs. monster

amount of gas released

flavor

including dogs? (My dog's are life threatening)

Poisonous

And who recycles these? Some place in Rumania?

Transportation is castors, like nuclear waste.

Way to many open questions.

Looks like an entire industry could be built for that.

The regulatory government agencies would welcome the taxes
one can levy.

I suggest the chairman to be : Mr. Methane from England, who btw is the recordholder for the longest........

Might as well hire people with international experience in that field.
 
So, if I read this right, they lowered the standards so apple would come back? So others who didn't qualified and now make it due to watered down standards? Must have been allot of money exchanging hands for this deal.

No, you read this exactly *wrong*. The standards, and associated evaluation process, haven't changed a bit, and Apple's laptops passed the evaluation according to those standards.

EPEAT is about environmental impact and EOL recycling. iFixit is up in arms over user-serviceability. Those are two different things. iFixit doesn't appear to be smart enough to recognize that those are two different things.

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I will never EVER buy a computer from Apple that's not fully recyclable. They should really be ashamed, putting design as a priority over environment? Would Steve have stood for this? They should just discontinue the retina MacBook, and apologize (which they've gotten good at recently). Will the 13" have the same non-recyclability? I'm really starting to hate this company.

Well, good. You can go ahead and buy a computer from Apple *now*, knowing full well that they *are* easily recyclable.

Try reading the article before you get all up in your huff. :rolleyes:
 
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