EPEAT Verifies Retina MacBook Pro Eligibility for Environmental Registry

[gnasher729]

The rMBP in common with all Apple laptops is mostly aluminium and glass, all of which is 100% recyclable. Apple will even recycle the thing for you, for free, rather than it ending up in some 3rd world rubbish dump.

There's always a problem with standards having fixed rules that may be inappropriate. Let's say you have a rule that 25% of all plastic in your device must be recycled. That makes sense if there is 200 grams of plastic, because it means 50 grams are recycled. Now say you have a device that is mostly metal and glass, and 2 grams of plastic. It doesn't make the slightest difference to anyone whether these 2 grams are recycled or not, but if the rules say they have to be recycled, and that part needs to be high quality that can't be achieved with recycled plastic, the manufacturer can (a) violate the rules or (b) hide one gram of recycled plastic somewhere that doesn't serve any purpose except meeting the 25% rule.

 

[diazj3]

This is great news! Likely it will increase Apple's sales and most importantly for all of us, its profits.

Apple is the greenest company in the world, and it is great that they are getting the recognition that they so richly deserve. I hope that their stock skyrockets due to this news.

Unless you are being sarcastic... all I can say is this is the saddest, lamest, most uninformed and desperate suck-up attempt I have ever seen.

 

[darkplanets]

Considering that ANY object that's EOLed is going to be disassembled if recycled... what's the big deal? So what, they used glue. Doesn't stop you from disassembling it. Same with the soldered RAM. Whole component wise it's a bunch of chips, aluminum, and some glass. And some "toxic" chemicals (I don't say this in jest, I'm a chemist so my definition of toxic is quite different). How is this any different from previous notebooks, or competitors notebooks?

Has anyone noticed that the only people up in arms are the people trying to sell you after-market parts/upgrades? Sorry iFixit -- no battery replacements for you.

 

[everything-i]

There's always a problem with standards having fixed rules that may be inappropriate. Let's say you have a rule that 25% of all plastic in your device must be recycled. That makes sense if there is 200 grams of plastic, because it means 50 grams are recycled. Now say you have a device that is mostly metal and glass, and 2 grams of plastic. It doesn't make the slightest difference to anyone whether these 2 grams are recycled or not, but if the rules say they have to be recycled, and that part needs to be high quality that can't be achieved with recycled plastic, the manufacturer can (a) violate the rules or (b) hide one gram of recycled plastic somewhere that doesn't serve any purpose except meeting the 25% rule.

This has been the problem with EPEAT rules for some time, they were written in a time when devices were very different today's and have failed to evolve in line with changing technology. This was Apples argument when they withdrew from EPEAT.

 

[MH01]

This is great news! Likely it will increase Apple's sales and most importantly for all of us, its profits.

Apple is the greenest company in the world, and it is great that they are getting the recognition that they so richly deserve. I hope that their stock skyrockets due to this news.

Time to leave your mums basement and face the real world dude.... YOU CAN DO IT!!!

 

[Swordylove]

This is great news! Likely it will increase Apple's sales and most importantly for all of us, its profits.

Apple is the greenest company in the world, and it is great that they are getting the recognition that they so richly deserve. I hope that their stock skyrockets due to this news.

The kool-aid is strong in this one...

Glassed Silver:mac

Hmm... I pretty sure Trader Joe's is a hell lot greener than Apple...

Huh?



Is that you Tim?

Isn't it clear that he's being sarcastic?

 

[Macboy Pro]

Clearly EPEAT is a joke now. A completely unrepairable, non-reusable, disposable laptop is Gold certified? Love or hate Apple, they have clearly bullied this to the point that being EPEAT certified now means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ANYMORE!

 

[Glassed Silver]

the ifixit guys is really saying: "Eek! I can't sell parts and repair guide hits to this product! I'm going to go the way of the TV repair shop!"

seriously. who laments the inability to perform user repairs on flat-panel TVs, receivers, car stereos, etc... nobody. nobody does. you send it in to the manufacturer or you get another one. EOS. this despite the fact that my grandfather used to be able to repair his own television.

why would we expect notebooks to be ANY different?

as for recycling, AFAIA, Apple is happy to take it off your hands for recycling. whats the problem there?

Because today's computers can run games that will eventually not work anymore sometime with newer OS versions. (And we all know OS X is THE consumer OS to cut the wire on "deprecated functions")
It's called retro gaming.

And no, virtual machines are not the ultimate solution.
If only they were.

Also, there's a lot of joy in using for example an old Apple II.
It's a piece of history and in an untraditional way it's also art. (the use to play with, the hardware aside, most will agree that Apple devices are indeed visual art)

But I do see how in a throw-away society old software is of no value to anyone anymore.
It's something you only value if you're sentimental enough for such technical things and you care for what you played in your early childhood days or later.

Games are just one example by the way.

Isn't it clear that he's being sarcastic?

Good catch, I'm horribly slow today.

Glassed Silver:mac

 

[gnasher729]

Clearly EPEAT is a joke now. A completely unrepairable, non-reusable, disposable laptop is Gold certified? Love or hate Apple, they have clearly bullied this to the point that being EPEAT certified now means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ANYMORE!

What a big ugly pile of nonsense.

How is a Retina MBP "unrepairable" and "disposable"? What do you think will happen if a Retina MBP breaks? People will return it to the Apple Store and it will be repaired, that's what will happen. Because it's expensive, and expensive items get fixed. Just because iFixit is too clumsy to take the battery out without breaking it, and because they hadn't figured out that the screen is integrated with the glass, doesn't mean a Retina MBP can't be repaired.

And what do you think happens when a Retina MBP owner decides that they want a new laptop? Do you think it gets thrown away? No, there will be a huge queue of people only too keen to lay their hands on it. It's not a £299 laptop that goes in the dump once you've had enough of it, it will be handed down to the next user multiple times.

And what does "non-reusable" even mean?

And last, what the hell does this have to do with EPEAT? EPEAT is about recycling, it has nothing to do with how long a device lasts.

 

[dr Dunkel]

Money talks

 

[tbrinkma]

Just because iFixit is too clumsy to take the battery out without breaking it

Worse, iFixit simply didn't *try* to take out the battery once they ascertained it was glued because they didn't want to *risk* breaking it. (Not that that stopped them from trying to randomly pry apart the display which has no visible connectors.)

The independent test lab which did the verification tear-downs had no problems tearing apart the components safely, using commonly available tools. Heck, the guy who wrote the opinion article works for a company that *sells* the tool he specifically complained about, and they're not the only ones who do so.

 

[maxira]

THE RETINA MACBOOK PRO WAS ‘VERIFIED’ EPEAT GOLD, BUT IT’S NOT GREEN
http://ifixit.org/3525/the-retina-macbook-pro-was-verified-epeat-gold-but-its-not-green/

 

[Anuba]

iFixit is obviously biased as they want to be able to sell parts and services to people.

Biased or not, they have a good point.

Everything in life needs balance. This shouldn't be news to anyone. Being morbidly obese is bad. Anorexia is also bad. In the middle is good, but not optimal. Healthy thin is the sweet spot.

My '09 MacBook Pro 17", IMO, strikes the perfect balance. It's healthy thin. Sure, it doesn't have a battery door, but that's no biggie. If you need to replace the battery just bring it to an Apple Retail Store or Premium Reseller and they'll do it quickly, and at a cost that doesn't hurt too much. Upgrading RAM or hard drive is a no-brainer. You remove 10 phillips screws and whammo, there it is. It's beautiful inside, actually, the layout is an absolute work of art.

This computer is thin enough. I've checked out the Retina MBP in stores. It's nice. But the decrease in thickness doesn't push any buttons in me to make me go "Yes! THAT's what I've been missing, my life will be so much better now." Retina display, no optical, that's awesome! But thinner...? Shrug. If it was critical to me I'd get an MBA.
So what are the tradeoffs that needed to be made? They're huge! They've turned it into Fort Knox! Proprietary SSD, glued battery, RAM soldered to the motherboard. For what? For *shrug*.
I mean jeez, they got rid of the optical drive, good move, wasn't that space enough to make it slightly thinner but otherwise keep the (perfect) layout as it was? My wallet votes a big fat no on this crap. Proprietary non user upgradeable storage and RAM in a laptop = no sell. The anorexia fetish freaks can have the MBA and put it in a manila envelope and jerk off to that, or whatever it is they do, but do not destroy the MacBook Pro line.

Apple has gone anorexic and they need an intervention. Someone needs to bitchslap Ive, Mansfield and Riccio back into reality and scream "DUDES! STOP! OK? Stop. Just stop. You've lost it. Enough is enough. Think different has taken you to a bad place this time around." EPEAT should be among the many doing the bitchslapping, but apparently they have as much spine and balls as the US patent office.

 

[thefizzle657]

What a big ugly pile of nonsense.

How is a Retina MBP "unrepairable" and "disposable"? What do you think will happen if a Retina MBP breaks? People will return it to the Apple Store and it will be repaired, that's what will happen. Because it's expensive, and expensive items get fixed. Just because iFixit is too clumsy to take the battery out without breaking it, and because they hadn't figured out that the screen is integrated with the glass, doesn't mean a Retina MBP can't be repaired.

And what do you think happens when a Retina MBP owner decides that they want a new laptop? Do you think it gets thrown away? No, there will be a huge queue of people only too keen to lay their hands on it. It's not a £299 laptop that goes in the dump once you've had enough of it, it will be handed down to the next user multiple times.

And what does "non-reusable" even mean?

And last, what the hell does this have to do with EPEAT? EPEAT is about recycling, it has nothing to do with how long a device lasts.

The Retina MBP is NOT repairable unless something like the SSD fails or the screen. The battery cannot be removed from the case easily and it was intended to be this way. If you have a problem with the battery, the trackpad or anything else that the battery prevents access to Apple replaces the entire unibody case. RAM troubles? The entire logic board has to be replaced. There is very little room for any sort of repair.

 

[hexblot]

Focus on the point at hand

seriously. EPEAT is NOT about repairability. It it not about WHEN the product reaches end-of-life. "Common tools" can easily refer to a crowbar, since we are talking about breaking the device in recyclable chunks.

The important part, the part for which the device actually GET a gold certification, is that even I get my crowbar and pry to rMBP open, not harm will come to me or the enviroment from the materials inside, that the resulting chunks are labeled properly, and are recyclable.

If you doubt this, please visit the article link to see what the rating is about.

As for not being repairable... personally I use laptops for bussiness, not entertainment. I buy it knowing that I'll upgrade to a new laptop in 3 years time, while recycling the previous one. If it needs repairs, Apple can do it for me. I do not understand the obsession with self repair - it's nice to have, granted, but unless you buy to keep for more than three years, it's only a real issue for part vendors.

 

[Judas1]

Worse, iFixit simply didn't *try* to take out the battery once they ascertained it was glued because they didn't want to *risk* breaking it. (Not that that stopped them from trying to randomly pry apart the display which has no visible connectors.)

The independent test lab which did the verification tear-downs had no problems tearing apart the components safely, using commonly available tools. Heck, the guy who wrote the opinion article works for a company that *sells* the tool he specifically complained about, and they're not the only ones who do so.

What independent lab? It was epeat that did the verification and they can't be trusted anymore because they gave a gold rating to a modern laptop that actually uses glue, yes glue. Its funny to see you talk about bias, when its actually true that the rMBP is unupgradable, and very hard to repair. If you can show that this statement is not true, then sure the guy is bias.

 

[TMay]

Biased or not, they have a good point.

Everything in life needs balance. This shouldn't be news to anyone. Being morbidly obese is bad. Anorexia is also bad. In the middle is good, but not optimal. Healthy thin is the sweet spot.

My '09 MacBook Pro 17", IMO, strikes the perfect balance. It's healthy thin. Sure, it doesn't have a battery door, but that's no biggie. If you need to replace the battery just bring it to an Apple Retail Store or Premium Reseller and they'll do it quickly, and at a cost that doesn't hurt too much. Upgrading RAM or hard drive is a no-brainer. You remove 10 phillips screws and whammo, there it is. It's beautiful inside, actually, the layout is an absolute work of art.

This computer is thin enough. I've checked out the Retina MBP in stores. It's nice. But the decrease in thickness doesn't push any buttons in me to make me go "Yes! THAT's what I've been missing, my life will be so much better now." Retina display, no optical, that's awesome! But thinner...? Shrug. If it was critical to me I'd get an MBA.
So what are the tradeoffs that needed to be made? They're huge! They've turned it into Fort Knox! Proprietary SSD, glued battery, RAM soldered to the motherboard. For what? For *shrug*.
I mean jeez, they got rid of the optical drive, good move, wasn't that space enough to make it slightly thinner but otherwise keep the (perfect) layout as it was? My wallet votes a big fat no on this crap. Proprietary non user upgradeable storage and RAM in a laptop = no sell. The anorexia fetish freaks can have the MBA and put it in a manila envelope and jerk off to that, or whatever it is they do, but do not destroy the MacBook Pro line.

Apple has gone anorexic and they need an intervention. Someone needs to bitchslap Ive, Mansfield and Riccio back into reality and scream "DUDES! STOP! OK? Stop. Just stop. You've lost it. Enough is enough. Think different has taken you to a bad place this time around." EPEAT should be among the many doing the bitchslapping, but apparently they have as much spine and balls as the US patent office.

See, here's the thing.

Few would be satisfied with what you see as ideal.

People want high performance in a light, thin package, and they are quite willing to pay for it. MBA's don't meet their requirements. More importantly, these devices are very energy efficient, and now that Apple is fully 64 bit, chances are that these machines will be usable for quite a bit longer than previous machines.

I would add that nobody I know would buy an MBP without Applecare, nor any of the mobile devices without it. That way, any problems are Apple's and more than likely they have capabilities to refurbish assemblies that iFixit doesn't have. More to the point, iFixit has a couple of years to figure it out before even the first of these machines are out of Applecare warranty.

Wiens needs to go back to leading his grammar police, because he sure doesn't have a clue on how to deal with technological advances.

 

[Thunderhawks]

The 15" retina pro is the worst computer I have ever owned.
And haveing an environment registry won't make the computer any better.

Disappointed all round.

Sell it?

 

[tbrinkma]

What independent lab? It was epeat that did the verification and they can't be trusted anymore because they gave a gold rating to a modern laptop that actually uses glue, yes glue. Its funny to see you talk about bias, when its actually true that the rMBP is unupgradable, and very hard to repair. If you can show that this statement is not true, then sure the guy is bias.

So, you *admit* you didn't read the press release which was the basis of the article here? It's even *linked* in the article.

Your own, personal, bias does not equate to bias on the part of anyone *but* yourself.

EPEAT requested standard disassembly instructions from each manufacturer for the products in question, then commissioned a technical test lab to independently purchase these devices on the open market, and disassemble them according to the instructions provided. Lab personnel were not trained recycling professionals, so they could be expected to provide more universally applicable data regarding questions of time and ease of disassembly than would a demonstration by a recycler.

The lab disassembled each of the purchased products with full documentation of each disassembly process, including its overall duration. Time for total disassembly of each of the products was under 20 minutes in all cases; for the removal of batteries the time required was between 30 seconds and 2 minutes. As noted above, these times probably exceed what a skilled recycler would require. Given their findings, the lab recommended that all products be found in conformance with EPEAT requirements.

----------

Sell it?

Don't be silly. He'd actually have to *own* one to sell it.
The "worst computer" he's ever owned, but he didn't return it and by something else? What kind of idiot does he want us to think he is?

 

[Anuba]

See, here's the thing.

Few would be satisfied with what you see as ideal.

Were they unsatisfied before the Retina MBP was released? Were there lots of people complaining about the unsightly blubbery fatness of the pre-Retina MBPs, and how they had to go to the chiropractor every week to straighten out their crooked spines buckling under the load? When they watched the introduction of the pre-Retina MBP and listened to Steve repeating over and over how thin and gorgeous it was, did they go "Has he gone mad? That thing is like a tank!"?

People want high performance in a light, thin package, and they are quite willing to pay for it.

Yes, but you're implying they didn't already have that. IIRC, Apple reported 'disappointing' Mac sales in late July. The Retina MBP didn't generate a discernible spike in sales. It's certainly no flop like the Cube, but it's not flying off the shelves in volumes that indicate a collective pent-up need for slightly thinner and lighter.

I would add that nobody I know would buy an MBP without Applecare, nor any of the mobile devices without it. That way, any problems are Apple's and more than likely they have capabilities to refurbish assemblies that iFixit doesn't have. More to the point, iFixit has a couple of years to figure it out before even the first of these machines are out of Applecare warranty.

I agree that every MBP owner should have AppleCare, but if you invest in a Pro machine and plan on using it for 3-4 years (it's not like it's a disposable napkin), certain things will happen during that time. For example, SSDs are likely to become faster and much cheaper, with higher storage capacity, and a couple more major OS X releases down the line, or hungrier versions of Creative Suite or whatever, anyone who went for 8 GB might regret it, but they can't simply replace it with a 16 GB kit (which will cost total peanut money in 3 years' time) since the damn RAM is soldered to the motherboard. I'm sure Apple is stoked at the prospect of everyone having to replace their entire computers instead of upgrading them, but like I said... my wallet votes a big fat no on that approach.

 

[Macboy Pro]

What a big ugly pile of nonsense.

How is a Retina MBP "unrepairable" and "disposable"? What do you think will happen if a Retina MBP breaks? People will return it to the Apple Store and it will be repaired, that's what will happen. Because it's expensive, and expensive items get fixed. Just because iFixit is too clumsy to take the battery out without breaking it, and because they hadn't figured out that the screen is integrated with the glass, doesn't mean a Retina MBP can't be repaired.

And what do you think happens when a Retina MBP owner decides that they want a new laptop? Do you think it gets thrown away? No, there will be a huge queue of people only too keen to lay their hands on it. It's not a £299 laptop that goes in the dump once you've had enough of it, it will be handed down to the next user multiple times.

And what does "non-reusable" even mean?

And last, what the hell does this have to do with EPEAT? EPEAT is about recycling, it has nothing to do with how long a device lasts.

LOL, so when your memory goes bad in December of 2013 and your 1 YR Warranty is up, you do what? Pay $1500 for Apple to replace the logic board. Seems a little wasteful of parts, let alone money on the part of the consumer. Apple sure is going to make a bundle.

LOL, so when you need more memory than 8GB, you have to buy a new Multi-thousand dollar laptop rather then $60 memory upgrade. Seems a little wasteful to me, let along the money the consumer has to shell out for the new Apple product. Apple sure is going to make a bundle.

I guess you can buy Apple's over priced upgrades right at the time of purchase. Another force economical rake in of cash for Apple.

It is called forcing the product to be obsolete in order to require re-investment. Pretty straight forward stuff here.


All in the name of making the product 3/16" thinner and getting the "WOW, that is cool crowd" Thinner is cool but it's not always better.

 

[TMay]

Were they unsatisfied before the Retina MBP was released? Were there lots of people complaining about the unsightly blubbery fatness of the pre-Retina MBPs, and how they had to go to the chiropractor every week to straighten out their crooked spines buckling under the load? When they watched the introduction of the pre-Retina MBP and listened to Steve repeating over and over how thin and gorgeous it was, did they go "Has he gone mad? That thing is like a tank!"?

Yes, but you're implying they didn't already have that. IIRC, Apple reported 'disappointing' Mac sales in late July. The Retina MBP didn't generate a discernible spike in sales. It's certainly no flop like the Cube, but it's not flying off the shelves in volumes that indicate a collective pent-up need for slightly thinner and lighter.

I agree that every MBP owner should have AppleCare, but if you invest in a Pro machine and plan on using it for 3-4 years (it's not like it's a disposable napkin), certain things will happen during that time. For example, SSDs are likely to become faster and much cheaper, with higher storage capacity, and a couple more major OS X releases down the line, or hungrier versions of Creative Suite or whatever, anyone who went for 8 GB might regret it, but they can't simply replace it with a 16 GB kit (which will cost total peanut money in 3 years' time) since the damn RAM is soldered to the motherboard. I'm sure Apple is stoked at the prospect of everyone having to replace their entire computers instead of upgrading them, but like I said... my wallet votes a big fat no on that approach.

We don't really know how the sales were for the rMBP as it was only available for a little over two weeks prior to the end of the quarter so it would have had little impact in Mac sales. We are aware of 13 inch rMBP's coming up soon so that in itself will spur sales as their configurations will likely be lower cost.

More to the point there were expectations of new Macs on a regular basis going all the way back to April, when Ivy Bridge became readily available, so numbers were quite obviously down for all Macs. Those numbers will be available when Apple announces the previous quarter's sales.

As for the rMBP, it's obvious that Apple is moving to all SSD for laptops, and with the prototypical rMBP, there was a full redesign that made it thinner and lighter, following the very positive acceptance of the MBA's. The only negatives that reviewers noted was the cost; otherwise it was getting very, very good reviews and most consider it a benchmark for design. At this point in time, person's as yourself have the option of purchasing the the lower cost MPB without the retina display, and without the bulk and weight reduction, to save money.

The only gripe I have is that to gain the extra 8GB for the midrange model it has to be ordered through the online store. For the person that won't pay the $200 for the extra 8GB, it's unlikely that there will be third party upgrades. For the person purchasing at a retail store, to get 16GB, you need to buy the high end model, at quite a bit of a hit. Choose wisely.

In the event that you find your machine lacking after 3 years, there is a ready market for used MBP's, so finding a willing buyer would be fairly straightforward. At the end of it's life, disassembly will realistically be quite a bit similar to any other MBP of that era, and the glue will hardly be an impediment that people make it out to be.

 

[mdelvecchio]

Because today's computers can run games that will eventually not work anymore sometime with newer OS versions. (And we all know OS X is THE consumer OS to cut the wire on "deprecated functions")
It's called retro gaming.

And no, virtual machines are not the ultimate solution.
If only they were.

Also, there's a lot of joy in using for example an old Apple II.
It's a piece of history and in an untraditional way it's also art. (the use to play with, the hardware aside, most will agree that Apple devices are indeed visual art)

But I do see how in a throw-away society old software is of no value to anyone anymore.
It's something you only value if you're sentimental enough for such technical things and you care for what you played in your early childhood days or later.

Games are just one example by the way.

...im not sure i follow. hes complaining that these are non-user-servicable, to which i said nor are TVs or tons of other tech; that this is not unusual. you bring up retro gaming, which, despite your sidenote, is sure enough playable on VMs. but if you did want to play on the orig hardware (as an Apple ][e user myself i can appreciate that), youd be in the same boat as w/ any old computer -- once you hit component failure, whatcha gonna do? youre probably no more able to fix your flat panel than able to source & repair ancient chips on a 35-year-old motherboard.

and even if by some chance you personally are, well, that's certainly atypical and not the norm -- the millions and millions and millions and millions of other notebook buyers wont be doing that. so who does it make more sense to design for -- a few hobbyist tweakers, or the millions and millions and millions and millions of people that want slim & light notebooks?

i think its pretty obvious. which is the same reason i dont lament losing mem cards for my MP3 players.

 

[alFR]

But for those who used to make a living selling kits to upgrade laptops, Apple's tactics are undoubtedly cause for concern.

Fixed that for you. I hear the sound of a business model dying...

 

[faroZ06]

I wouldn't consider the MBPR environmentally unfriendly, but the whole "you can't fix Macs or upgrade them" stereotype applies to it (but doesn't apply to any Mac I've ever used). Soldered-on RAM is ridiculous. Whether the reason for this is that Apple legitimately needs to make it non-upgradeable to make it thinner or that Apple just wants you to spend more money, I'd never buy a super-thin MacBook Pro.

But nobody should get worked up about this unless they really know that Apple glued it together to make it hard to open on purpose. Gluing makes it thinner, and thinner is good for some people, so if you don't want it to be thinner at the cost of upgradeability and repairability, don't buy one. It's like a mud rally racer complaining that Ferraris don't have good suspension for off-roading.

----------

This is great news! Likely it will increase Apple's sales and most importantly for all of us, its profits.

Apple is the greenest company in the world, and it is great that they are getting the recognition that they so richly deserve. I hope that their stock skyrockets due to this news.

Are you kidding? I can name thousands of companies that are "greener" than Apple.

----------

[Enter standard corporate apologist note here]
"I love Apple!" - World
I pray for the backlash. Apple was awesome in 2002. 2% user base. Pre USB iPod. Humility is a great motivator for invention.

This is the only thing I liked about unsuccessful Apple. 2% user base is not good if you want Apple to make their computers cheap.

----------

Isn't it clear that he's being sarcastic?

No, if you've seen his other posts, you can tell that he's not being sarcastic.