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There're no permanent enemies. Steve job made peace with Bill Gates when he returned to Apple. It's always about economic benefit in the world of business. EPIC wouldn't pull this stunt if the iOS/macOS base is pulling in tons of revenue for them. Maybe the situation will change with the Apple Silicon Macs in a few years.
iOS/macOS ISN’T pulling in tons of revenue for them, though. This is the same company that, as the opening round of negotiations, not only publicly flouted the rules, but was predetermined about it (it was no accident) enough to have animated a response to the takedown they knew was coming. That’s not the actions of a company that sees value in that business arrangement.
 
And yet Metal API can be used for free by apps written for macOS. Why? And there are equivalent APIs you can use for free on Windows. I don’t think you understand the case.
Macs are more expensive than Windows.

Yes similar tools exist on Windows but in the past the Windows development environments like Visual Studio costed money. They offer Community Edition for free now but its under special rules.

Unity also offers a way to develop for free - https://store.unity.com/compare-plans

However, all of these APIs and tools cost the company time and money to create. So they eventually need to charge SOMETHING SOMEWHERE - Visual Studio has costly versions based on your revenue, Xbox cut leads to help improving Direct X APIs, Unity has costly tiers based on revenue which leads to improvements on their platform

So bottom line, the 30% cut and increased price of Macs eventually leads to Apple being able to CREATE and MAINTAIN these APIs and tools. They do not create them for charity. They have to pay their developers to create them and maintain them. What pays their salary?
 
You know why the government doesn't file an anti-trust case against Apple and their app store monopoly?
Because the government has never filed an anti-trust case against any company where the definition of the “market” for that monopoly includes the trademarked name of that a company.

They’ve never filed an anti-trust case against McDonald’s for their Big Mac monopoly.
They’ve never filed an anti-trust case against Sony for their Playstation monopoly.
and
They’ve never filed an anti-trust case against Costco for their Kirkland Signature monopoly.

Here, fill it in yourself, it’s FUN!
They’ve never filed an anti-trust case against ”$company” for their “$company’s trademarked name” monopoly.
 
I just don’t understand.. Apple built this platform… etc. they can do what they please and customers can choose not to buy an iOS device… I mean, I wonder why Xbox and Sony won’t allow us to side load apps and games onto their devices…
 
>>At the conclusion of today's questioning, Sweeney was asked what he would do if ‌Epic Games‌ loses the case. In response, he said that Apple would be able to cut off Fortnite and remove ‌Epic Games‌ from the developer program for any reason. "We would have to live with not supporting the iOS platform," he said.<<

I'm not sure how to parse Sweeney's statement re: if Epic loses. Does he mean they're at the mercy of Apple (duh) or that Epic will abandon iOS and MacOS, or is he going to play under Apple's rules?
 
Case is pretty weak but EPIC is right, Apple having App store monopoly is ridiculous

You know why the government doesn't file an anti-trust case against Apple and their app store monopoly?

Because you can’t have a monopoly on your own product?

McDonald’s having a monopoly on Big Macs is ridiculous.
 
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>>At the conclusion of today's questioning, Sweeney was asked what he would do if ‌Epic Games‌ loses the case. In response, he said that Apple would be able to cut off Fortnite and remove ‌Epic Games‌ from the developer program for any reason. "We would have to live with not supporting the iOS platform," he said.<<

I'm not sure how to parse Sweeney's statement re: if Epic loses. Does he mean they're at the mercy of Apple (duh) or that Epic will abandon iOS and MacOS, or is he going to play under Apple's rules?

In context, what the judge was really asking was “if i kick unreal engine out of the developer program too, will you give in and follow the App Store rules” and his answer was “no, we’re crybabies and we will just not be in the App Store.”

The original post seems to mischaracterize what was asked, and the fact that the judge prefaced the question by pointing out that Epic had asked for equitable relief, and she had granted some by forcing apple to temporarily keep unreal engine in the developer program. Her reference to equitable relief was a reference to the fact that if you go to the court and ask the court to do something as a matter of right and wrong, you, yourself, must have clean hands and good intentions.
 
I think he knew that Apple wouldn’t accept any deal. I mean, why would they cut a special deal with the guy from the rehearsals?

But to your last question — he does seem like the type that seeks publicity.
Agreed. I bet it really stung when he read that email referring to him as the rehearsal guy. LOL would have loved to see his expression on that one.

They need to lean into the question as to why he isn't pulling this same stance with Sony and Microsoft. He is paying them the same % and therefore way more $. Ask what factors they considered in comparing these scenarios with clearly different outcomes in posture/approach/rhetoric.
 
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Agreed. I bet it really stung when he read that email referring to him as the rehearsal guy. LOL would have loved to see his expression on that one.

They need to lean into the question as to why he isn't pulling this same stance with Sony and Microsoft. He is paying them the same % and therefore way more $. Ask what factors they considered in comparing these scenarios with clearly different outcomes in posture/approach/rhetoric.
I wouldn’t doubt that there has been counsel between those companies to the effect that “We agree that we should control the platforms we create, but leave us out if it. If, beyond all sense, it gets any further, that’s when we’ll step in.” 😂
 
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Anyone rooting for Apple, Steam or any other platform for taking 30% from game sales, are a bunch of corporate shills. This practice needs to end, and the Epic and Microsoft stores have at least taken steps to improve the revenue for game companies - esp. considering computer games' ever-increasing complexity and production expenses.

How many billions of dollars do Apple and Steam really need to snatch up from other people's hard work, by simply offering a distribution platform? 12-15% would be a more sensical revenue cut, but keep pushing your fake politically correct messaging Apple, trying to cover up the fact that you are a bunch of greedy money hoarders.
... Defends one set of corporations against the others, transcending above the masses with his perfect set of core values that makes us all look in wonder at our own utter depravity...

FYI - No one is forcing anyone to pay them money. There are other (larger) platforms. Also - The little guys are getting the 15% deal from Apple...
 
Fair enough.

If Apple needs a minimum 20% fee to break even, then they seriously need to rethink how they run the App Store IMO. The App Store shouldn't be misused to create a huge revenue stream, but offer a reasonably priced distribution platform. Now it's being used to extort enormous amounts of money from developers and software/game companies. Apple and Steam offer a very high quality service, and they obviously deserve to get paid properly - but not a 30% cut.

I applaud Microsoft and Epic to only offer a 12% sales cut on games, but admittedly that might be too low as a long term solution for Epic, who are loosing money on their store at that rate (which is probably also related to their weekly free game deals). Epic, with all their faults (like any other company), are doing something positive for the gaming industry here.
Epic Game Store’s advantage to a dev is if they use Unreal engine, because Epic doesn’t double dip on full store and engine fees, and they can afford to give the dev a larger cut of the store pie, as opposed to the dev putting the game on Steam where they pay full Unreal engine royalties to Epic and Steam’s cut to Valve. This is why Borderlands 3 was a success.

Just unfortuante that Epic Game Store doesn’t live up to the same features Steam has, and they have to give millions away in free games and dev incentives just to sell the platform.
 
I could be mistaken, but I feel like this whole push is coming from Tencent not so secretly lurking in the shadows.
 
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API Compatibility, data privacy, safe and fair disclosure practices, case is pretty much. Thanks for coming out to play Sweeney dweeby


y’all may not be very common English outside of Texas but it’s a proper compound word meaning “you all”. Sounds weird yes but it’s used more commonly in other languages.
Agreed. English suffers from not having a 2nd person plural.
And, 2nd person should not have been used in the letter.
 
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Setting aside the propriety of using "y'all" in an email directed to someone who you've apparently only briefly met previously that is the head of a company who is many multiple times larger than yours, what exactly goes through Tim Sweeney's head? "Yes, I would have accepted a special deal." Does he not understand how that torpedoes his entire credibility? And yet, he didn't have to say that. He could have said that he wouldn't have taken a special deal, and who exactly is going to say otherwise? Maybe he would have been challenged on it--(sarcastic-toned lawyer) Really, Tim? Are you sure?--but it's not asking him what color the stoplight at the corner is, where someone can run outside to fact-check him.
I believe that there is a "paper" trail of Epic's internal discussion of strategy. I don't think Tim had any chance of obfuscating his real intentions.
 
We have a machine at our house we use for banking that we want to be secure - we chose an iPad for this purpose. I am very worried about Apple being legally compelled to add the necessary code to iOS/iPadOS to allow people to download and install apps from the web like with Windows and macOS, which would be a requirement for 3rd party app stores. It means we will no longer have such a nice solution. Nothing will ever be as secure as the total program whitelisting iOS/iPadOS has now.

Apple does not have a monopoly. Monopolies require you to have all or nearly all of the market share for your product, and in the case of Apple, Android actually has way more users than they do. As far as I'm concerned, Apple doesn't have to allow third-party apps on their platform at all if they don't want to any more than I'm required to allow guests into my home. IIRC that was exactly the situation when the iPhone first came out - their apps and nothing else. I don't see any calls for my Mom's simple calculator to be required to write a solution to allow third-party firmware to be flashed onto the device on the basis that they have a "monopoly" on their calculator's firmware.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen, but with the situation progressing as it is in Europe, I think Apple is really going to lose this one. Outside of Apple fan sites, people seem to be overwhelmingly in favor of that outcome.
Monopolies can be either horizontal or vertical. Apple has a virtual vertical monopoly in the Apple ecosystem but not a horizontal monopoly in the smartphone market.
 
Monopolies can be either horizontal or vertical. Apple has a virtual vertical monopoly in the Apple ecosystem but not a horizontal monopoly in the smartphone market.
This was my analogy 20+ years ago. Microsoft had the horizontal monopoly. Apple had the vertical.
 
I could be mistaken, but I feel like this whole push is coming from Tencent not so secretly lurking in the shadows.

The conspiracy theorist in me says "yup". Tencent doesn't own a majority of Epic but I am positive this is being done with their (and the PRC's) approval. If Epic wins, they've disrupted the business model and weakened a powerful non-Chinese corporation. If they lose... they still make crazy money and Epic takes the fall. All this is costing is legal fees & some lost profits.
 
To date, I have not seen a better solution from anyone beyond “open up the App Store” to “subsidise it with iphone profits”. Microsoft and Epic can likely get away with charging less because they are probably not doing as much to run a curated App Store the same way Apple is.
[...]
I don't think one has to defend Apples' fees or commissions. Apple is entitled to it's commissions (regardless of the comments, where posters have no skin in the game). If one is so offended by the ecosystem, app store and/or operating system, management policies, there are alternatives.
 
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I tried Fortnite and thought it utterly sucked. I hope Apple crushes Epic, I have no sympathy for that company whatsoever.
 
The company is based in Cary, NC. "Y'all" is part of their vernacular, but that does not excuse its use in professional communication - at least not with someone who has no idea who you are.
CARY is just an old acronym for "Containment Area for Relocated Yankees". Although in recent years that containment has been demonstrably breached.
 
Agreed. English suffers from not having a 2nd person plural.
And, 2nd person should not have been used in the letter.
Fun fact: French has a 2nd person plural "vous"... which you must use to address a single person with respect. So there would be no way to tell whether "vous" referred to just Tim or his colleagues as well if this email was written in French. o_O
In a sense, this adds complexity for no benefit in clarity (a French speciality), as opposed to the Spanish "ustedes/vosotros".
 
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Sure I get it is a compound word. Well a contraction actually but as a non native English speaker I knew what you mean. Even when taking it at face value I still find it inappropriate to use with someone you don't really know, nor has given you permission to be on such informal terms. The respective concept of tutoyer. But even if one wants to demonstrate such blatant disregard for etiquette, then why does he address his letter to a singular person, but then the first sentence goes into addressing a group.

I find it very odd behaviour and wouldn't dream to let myself down like that on first contact with someone I don't have a relationship with. If he were to do that with me I'd raise an eye brow and would make it clear that I have not given him permission to be on such familiar terms. And if he wants my respect and attention he better examines his own attitude.

Well stated!

I agree.
 
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One thing I always wondered. Does Epic have a buy from App Store button on purchases within their store? That is exactly what Epic tried to do in the App Store, right? Ouch! That is the sound of truth hurting!
Well, supposedly (I don't have first hand info, and don't play Fortnite), when Epic did there backend switcharoo, the user got a choice to pay using Epic or Apple, with the Epic option being (20% I think?) cheaper. Of course, if you saw that, which would you pick? If they were to put the hypothetical "Buy from App Store" button, it would undoubtedly have the same disclaimer of paying more there, and again, who would use it? This whole ploy by Epic was just to get an extra 10% revenue from iOS users.
 
Perhaps one compromise would be for Apple to put in a purchase dialog that state the benefits of subscribing or paying through Apple: one place to mange subscriptions, one place to store payment data, parental controls - then give the developer a certain amount of space to make their case for going outside Apple. The first time the user does this, they get another dialog to tap through explaining that Apple bears no responsibility for third-party payment systems. Allow developers to adjust pricing to account for the Apple commission. Still require the Apple payment option be available to Apple customers who want it. This would answer the Spotify and Epic concerns. However, to unlock this functionality, the developer fee is increased to offset Apple's costs to run the store. The App Store remains the sole route to getting software on the device and the other rules, like privacy protections, remain. Sony, MS, Nintendo, and Google put similar policies in place.
 
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