Epic Games Aiming to Recruit 'Coalition of Apple Critics' to Fight App Store Policies

[beanbaguk]

I'm not taking sides on this but the way this is heading shows Epic as the bully and arrogant. Apple set out it's terms fairly and openly. They've been there from the start and it's been no secret. I'm not saying the rules are good or bad, but Apple haven't hidden anything.

Epic have however tried to cheat the system, got caught in the process and are now playing the victim, when in fact they are the aggressor and bully.

Something tells me they won't win at this and most companies will realise the same and ignore Epic's tactics. Even Spotify weren't so stupid and arrogant to play this game.

 

[beanbaguk]

Cool, can't wait to see lower spotify etc. premiums when they don't have to pay Apple so much. It'll be a real win for consumers. pfffft

Do you really think that will happen? I don't think so. Spotify will keep pricing intact....Epic will slowly and cleverly raise prices and we'll end up paying the same, and they'll reap the profits.

 

[Kabeyun]

He’ll hath no fury like a developer scorned.

 

[seclusion]

Just hope it doesn’t turn into like the TV companies.
CBS+ has a deal in this country, but not that country.
So u have to have 15 apps, all for $10+ a month, so u can watch the show u might like.
The ability to scroll the TV app and pick the show I want and watch.
Not try an remember what app opens the show, only to find I haven’t got that app, subscribe now!
Not living in Canada, but all our banking is, but can’t get out of the Bell hooks because “they” know where my credit card is from.
Looking for Star Trek, I have to get the stupid Crave app, register with Bell Yada. Scew that!
I just see that kind of non-usefulness coming all around.
Netfix had it down, then others “helped” themselves and now it’s starting to suck.
I pay $11.99 CAD for music. I get suggestions of new stuff, no matter where I live, if I want a song, I search and in seconds, I have the song or album.
imagine having to have the Universal app, Sony app etc.
Hopefully I can pay ? and have any movie, games and what not.
I have no interest in having 10+ TV apps, 10+ game apps, 10+ cloud Apps, 10+ bank apps, on and on.

 

[kazmac]

Epic are heading for a fall here, absolutely the wrong way to go about this.

Sometimes, lawsuits are valid. This one is not because Epic broke the rules laid down by the App Store.

 

[cp1160]

I'm with Epic on this one. 30% fees is crazy high especially when some big companies get special treatment (like Amazon)

Well virtually all the systems out there take a cut of the revenue. Steam takes a cut of the sale and in-game sales. Google, Sony, Microsoft and others. One of these players is much more successful than the others and has monetized well but provided the audience, tools and support needed to manage a system support over a million apps. There is a petty child that is not the king of the hill here and he wants us to join his pity party as he laughs all the way to the bank. You really want to win the fight Epic? Shut down your app purchases for Apple device owners and let them take the fight to Apple....or look at your $5 billion in revenue and say Apple helped us get here, and thanks Microsoft, Google, Sony and others.

If he gets what he wants and the EU and others smash open the stores....are you truly prepared for what will happen when the Russians, North Koreans, Chinese and other state-sponsored hackers take over your data, your money and aspects of your life when you install their nasty payloads on your devices?

Will costs really go down for you? There are 300+ years of capitalism that say otherwise......

 

[macmanHEG]

I don't make you wrong about XCloud, I actually think Apple should allow XCloud because Microsoft can be trusted, The fair thing would be to allow XCloud on the App Store and I can subscribe through apple and apple can take their 30/15% of my subscription that would be great and I would sign up day one.

What would be very bad for the consumer is that we end up with 10 different App Stores, developers remove their Apps from the Apple App Store, for example Fornite because an epic store exclusive and now we all have to sign up to 10 different App Store, give out details to 10 different companies and yet still pay the same price. I fail to see why anyone would think thats a positive for the consumer

I don't think having 10 different app stores is a bad thing if it means I can do what I want with my device. At the end of the day I doubt things would get that bad, maybe a couple of gaming dedicated ones and a general one from amazon or something.

I'm fairly certain that the prices will be lower as they will match other platforms. Most IAPs I have come across the devs just put the 30% on top so it's more expensive than on their website etc

 

[beanbaguk]

I don't think having 10 different app stores is a bad thing if it means I can do what I want with my device. At the end of the day I doubt things would get that bad, maybe a couple of gaming dedicated ones and a general one from amazon or something.

I'm fairly certain that the prices will be lower as they will match other platforms. Most IAPs I have come across the devs just put the 30% on top so it's more expensive than on their website etc

Every service does the same. I agree Apple's is on the high side, but booking.com for example charges a 15% commission on every booking. Make your booking on booking.com if you have to, call the hotel and ask for a discount. Most will knock off 10% of the booking.com price. Not allowed but a similar practice; However get caught and get your fingers burnt.

 

[oliversl]

I uninstalled Epic Launcher when they stole my whole steam library game list, they are not your friend, good riddance

 

[sirozha]

The way that the Chinese could retaliate on the US is to remove WeChat from the Apple App Store in China. Boom, 30% of Apple’s revenue and profits is gone without damaging the ability of Apple to manufacture iPhones in China and sell them elsewhere. Additionally, this immediately helps the Chinese smartphone manufacturers to divide Apple’s Chinese market share among themselves.

I actually expect this to happen soon as their first salvo in response to the US embargoing Huawei and banning WeChat and TikTok in the US.

China has had it with the Trump administration targeting Chinese businesses. If the US retaliates any further, the next salvo would be to target Apple and Cisco directly by banning Foxconn operations in mainland China.

 

[m11rphy]

I don't think having 10 different app stores is a bad thing if it means I can do what I want with my device. At the end of the day I doubt things would get that bad, maybe a couple of gaming dedicated ones and a general one from amazon or something.

I'm fairly certain that the prices will be lower as they will match other platforms. Most IAPs I have come across the devs just put the 30% on top so it's more expensive than on their website etc

You seriously think 10 different app stores wouldn't be bad? You basically just turned the iPhone into a windows PC. Why do people buy something new and try to turn it to something we already had.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

What would be very bad for the consumer is that we end up with 10 different App Stores, developers remove their Apps from the Apple App Store, for example Fornite because an epic store exclusive and now we all have to sign up to 10 different App Store, give out details to 10 different companies and yet still pay the same price. I fail to see why anyone would think thats a positive for the consumer

Sounds like you are describing the mess that is internet television. Every provider now has their own turf, and they extort (require subscriptions) to access it. Pretty soon, you are paying MORE than if you just stuck with cable. And those subscriptions are going up it seems, not down. (Don't get me started on SAAS!)

I sat down and ran some figures on a spreadsheet, and if we dropped cable here, and signed up to the providers we watch, we would actually be paying MORE for the same/similar content. Either way, we are screwed, and they have our money. They seem to need it more than we do.

Capitalism sucks (your bank account dry)!

 

[m11rphy]

Sounds like you are describing the mess that is internet television. Every provider now has their own turf, and they extort (require subscriptions) to access it. Pretty soon, you are paying MORE than if you just stuck with cable. And those subscriptions are going up it seems, not down. (Don't get me started on SAAS!)

I sat down and ran some figures on a spreadsheet, and if we dropped cable here, and signed up to the providers we watch, we would actually be paying MORE for the same/similar content. Either way, we are screwed, and they have our money. They seem to need it more than we do.

Capitalism sucks (your bank account dry)!

Exactly that, you are spot on

 

[Cosmosent]

EPIC's fight is in the spotlight, but there are many other smaller battles going on with Apple & their "curated" iOS App Store.

IMO, the best outcome of EPIC's fight would be the creation of a 2nd, Trusted, Verified, & Transparent iOS App Store run by a company with NO apps & NO ties to third-party apps !

Such a 2nd iOS App Store could provide both Price & App Discovery competition to the existing iOS App Store !

Improved Pricing is what the BIG third-party companies are fighting for.

Improved App Discovery is what the rest of us are fighting for !

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

The way that the Chinese could retaliate on the US is to remove WeChat from the Apple App Store in China. Boom, 30% of Apple’s revenue and profits is gone without damaging the ability of Apple to manufacture iPhones in China and sell them elsewhere. Additionally, this immediately helps the Chinese smartphone manufacturers to divide Apple’s Chinese market share among themselves.

I actually expect this to happen soon as their first salvo in response to the US embargoing Huawei and banning WeChat and TikTok in the US.

China has had it with the Trump administration targeting Chinese businesses. If the US retaliates any further, the next salvo would be to target Apple and Cisco directly by banning Foxconn operations in mainland China.

China China China...

America GAVE China their know how YEARS ago. If China wanted to, they could drive this country straight into the ground, and with their increasing economic clout, there is rapidly becoming no reason why they just don't go ahead and do it. WeChat, TikTok, Huawei, etc... It's all meaningless posturing, and tit for tat. Eventually someone is going to get tired of that game and things are going to get serious. Realize that China owns us, and they can shake the tree and we all fall down. What happened to the reporting that China was secretly putting code in BIOS and firmware to allow backdoors? That sure died quickly. Was there anything to it? Having a once enemy manufacture all your stuff is probably not the greatest of ideas, but profitable apparently.

Apple provides a product, and a service. Someone has to pay for that product and service. Facebook monetized their members. Twitter too. Apple doesn't do that (or at least not as much). I like not having to be concerned who is 'watching' me and figuring out who to sell my activity to. That's part of what we lose if Apple loses. I hope they can fend off this juvenile attack. They can charge what they want If people don't want to play, they can do their own thing. *sigh* This is all silly...

 

[LuckyBubba]

Hey Epic, if I'm willing to pay the price, you shouldn't care. It was my choice to go with apple because I trusted their security, the other thing I trust "BILLING PRACTICES" there is value for me to go with apple, so if you need to charge more, go for it.
I'm pretty sure every store in the country marks up product to pay employees, credit card costs, lighting, etc. Explain to me why you should think apple and google should take less?
Go ahead and prove your point, close down your company if you can't afford to do business with other businesses. it wasn't too long ago you would have had to sell product in the stores and printed floppies or CD, packaging, instructions, shipping and logistics costs - Explain to me again, why are you complaining?

 

[mani]

Against terms to charge different prices. But they can take a page from Netflix and only offer payments via their website. We the kids look into it they see that only via Epic can they get vbucks.

funny, YouTube premium costs more in the iOS app.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Epic are heading for a fall here, absolutely the wrong way to go about this.

Sometimes, lawsuits are valid. This one is not because Epic broke the rules laid down by the App Store.

Rules which Epic agreed to, by the way.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

The way that the Chinese could retaliate on the US is to remove WeChat from the Apple App Store in China. Boom, 30% of Apple’s revenue and profits is gone without damaging the ability of Apple to manufacture iPhones in China and sell them elsewhere. Additionally, this immediately helps the Chinese smartphone manufacturers to divide Apple’s Chinese market share among themselves.

I actually expect this to happen soon as their first salvo in response to the US embargoing Huawei and banning WeChat and TikTok in the US.

China has had it with the Trump administration targeting Chinese businesses. If the US retaliates any further, the next salvo would be to target Apple and Cisco directly by banning Foxconn operations in mainland China.

The US should ban every single tech product from every single Chinese owned company. Americans have had it with the communist, totalitarian stuffed shirts dictating what our companies can and cannot sell in their market while they get to sell whatever they want in ours. NO MORE. And as long as the Chinese government can compel its companies to hand over user data, well, no Chinese tech product should ever cross the US border.

China is very clearly in the wrong on multiple levels and they will lose. Eventually.

 

[Seend1983]

Since we've all agreed that Epic Games has absolutely no chance in winning this because they have absolutely no legal grounds, let's talk about what Apple should do. Apple has the right to push a payment arrangement that it sees fit, it is a BUSINESS after all, however, I believe it would be more beneficial if Apple change their fee system. Namely, it shouldn't be a flat out 30% charge, but more of a progressive charge like the tax system. In our tax system we don't expect everyone to pay 30% tax. There's different tiers for different income levels - higher income pays more, lower income pays less. Should be like that for the App Store - multibillion dollar companies like Epic should be "taxed" at the highest tier, while the smaller developers would expect to pay much less. At a certain size, like a beginner dev with their first app, it would be free or close to it. As developers begin making more money and climbs the revenue ladder, Apple could increase the cut up until a maximum limit. Apps making tens of millions of dollars a month could rightfully expect to the pay the highest amount, since they're benefiting from the App Store the most. I'm sure some will still whine and complain though, but that just takes us back to where we are today with Epic Games vs Apple.

 

[LuckyBubba]

Since we've all agreed that Epic Games has absolutely no chance in winning this because they have absolutely no legal grounds, let's talk about what Apple should do. Apple has the right to push a payment arrangement that it sees fit, it is a BUSINESS after all, however, I believe it would be more beneficial if Apple change their fee system. Namely, it shouldn't be a flat out 30% charge, but more of a progressive charge like the tax system. In our tax system we don't expect everyone to pay 30% tax. There's different tiers for different income levels - higher income pays more, lower income pays less. Should be like that for the App Store - multibillion dollar companies like Epic should be "taxed" at the highest tier, while the smaller developers would expect to pay much less. At a certain size, like a beginner dev with their first app, it would be free or close to it. As developers begin making more money and climbs the revenue ladder, Apple could increase the cut up until a maximum limit. Apps making tens of millions of dollars a month could rightfully expect to the pay the highest amount, since they're benefiting from the App Store the most. I'm sure some will still whine and complain though, but that just takes us back to where we are today with Epic Games vs Apple.

The only other option I can see is for Epic to open a wholesale unit and sell their software at wholesale just like they used to at computer city, best buy and Amazon. The retailer can mark it up and at least epic knows exactly how much they are making.
I grew up in retail and have a different outlook and I feel Epic doesn't understand how things work.
One last solution is for Epic and much like Microsoft, is to make their own game platform and manage it. Truth is, they need apple more than apple and google need epic.

 

[Wildkraut]

The US should ban every single tech product from every single Chinese owned company. Americans have had it with the communist, totalitarian stuffed shirts dictating what our companies can and cannot sell in their market while they get to sell whatever they want in ours. NO MORE. And as long as the Chinese government can compel its companies to hand over user data, well, no Chinese tech product should ever cross the US border.

China is very clearly in the wrong on multiple levels and they will lose. Eventually.

And while you're are at it, they should also demand destroying all existing devices that were manufactured in China, just pile them up and burn these devices in the middle of the times square, e.g. like with books 1933.
Trumpet should immediately prohibit any American company to manufacture in China, or to import anything that ever touched a Chinese ground. And also prohibit using/importing rare-earth elements from China.

Then we'll see how much fun you'll have...

 

[sirozha]

The US should ban every single tech product from every single Chinese owned company. Americans have had it with the communist, totalitarian stuffed shirts dictating what our companies can and cannot sell in their market while they get to sell whatever they want in ours. NO MORE. And as long as the Chinese government can compel its companies to hand over user data, well, no Chinese tech product should ever cross the US border.

China is very clearly in the wrong on multiple levels and they will lose. Eventually.

Are you ready to go to Stone Age for about 5-10 years? Then again, some people may enjoy walking around naked, as not only will America have no technology, but it will have no underwear.

 

[sirozha]

China China China...

America GAVE China their know how YEARS ago. If China wanted to, they could drive this country straight into the ground, and with their increasing economic clout, there is rapidly becoming no reason why they just don't go ahead and do it. WeChat, TikTok, Huawei, etc... It's all meaningless posturing, and tit for tat. Eventually someone is going to get tired of that game and things are going to get serious. Realize that China owns us, and they can shake the tree and we all fall down. What happened to the reporting that China was secretly putting code in BIOS and firmware to allow backdoors? That sure died quickly. Was there anything to it? Having a once enemy manufacture all your stuff is probably not the greatest of ideas, but profitable apparently.

Apple provides a product, and a service. Someone has to pay for that product and service. Facebook monetized their members. Twitter too. Apple doesn't do that (or at least not as much). I like not having to be concerned who is 'watching' me and figuring out who to sell my activity to. That's part of what we lose if Apple loses. I hope they can fend off this juvenile attack. They can charge what they want If people don't want to play, they can do their own thing. *sigh* This is all silly...

China is way ahead the US as an industrial power. Not only have they caught up with us from the high tech perspective, they are ahead of us in many areas while capable of not only inventing and designing, but also manufacturing their own products.

Huawei is now a leading world technology powerhouse. They are like Apple, Cisco, and Qualcomm combined. The new Huawei high-end phones are superior to Apple’s. The camera tech is light years ahead of Apple’s. They design their own mobile processor that is fine tuned to their software. It’s a tight integration between the software and the hardware - just like Apple does it. They hold more 5G related patents than any other company. It’s no coincidence that the Trump administration is specifically targeting Huawei and has just banned TSMC from manufacturing Huawei designed mobile processors. China is now hiring TSMC engineers in large numbers to start manufacturing their own processors, as the Huawei supply of processors is running out.

Huawei is also ready to replace the open source Android with their own OS. Trump banned Huawei from the rest of the world via multiple strikes against it. China will strike back at Apple and Cisco. I have no doubt about it. Tesla will probably be mauled by the Chinese tiger as well.

 

[Coconut Bean]

'Unfair terms'? I ran a business, and when we got a 'merchant account', the ability to take credit cards, I found out why so many businesses didn't take American Express. They charge a lot more for the 'privilege' of accepting their cards. More than double what the other cards charged. But American Express offers their 'members' a lot for carrying and using their cards. So it's a trade off. I only carry an Amex card. Apple has a lot of devoted fans and users. If Epic can't see the value of being on the Apple, and now Google, app stores, then they have a problem. If Apple is taken down over this, if their app store is decimated by judicial extremism, if the life guards are called out of the pool that insure the safety of the apps they supply, it's going to drag every Apple user into the abyss of malware and trash apps. Hip hip hurray!!!

Epic is out for Apple's App Store. If it goes, we all lose, and I doubt Epic actually wins, so why are they doing this? The undertow on this is huge...

They can't see the value in paying 30% in fees. Just as many shops don't see the value in taking amex . Difference is those shops have alternative to choose, developers on the app store don't.