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Apr 12, 2001
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Apple has told an Australian court that Epic Games' legal challenge against the App Store is "self-serving," and that all the software company aims to do is "redefine the terms of access" that it's always been subject to on Apple's platforms.

fortnite-apple-logo-2.jpg

As reported by The Guardian, Apple and Epic Games on Tuesday went head-to-head in a federal court in Sydney, Australia, following Epic's decision to expand its legal battle into the country. Epic's case in Australia follows much of the same argument in the United States, claiming that Apple is a monopoly and that the App Store and in-app purchasing system are unfair.

During the tense court hearing, Apple's lawyer, Stephen Free SC, told the court that the legal battle is between "two Goliaths," referencing that Epic is valued at more than $17 billion. Free went on to say that Epic has obtained a significant amount of information on Apple's App Store and highlighted that some of Epic Games' success can be attributed to Apple's hardware and software.

You have a sophisticated commercial entity that sought and obtained access to Apple's intellectual property and all of the benefits of access to Apple's software and hardware, exploited that opportunity to great effect for many years, and the essence of the dispute … is that Epic wants to redefine the terms of access in quite fundamental and self-serving ways.

Epic Games is looking to give iPhone and iPad users more freedom as to where they choose to download their apps by offering an alternative app store. Currently, downloads are limited only to Apple's App Store, in which case apps are subject to Apple's guidelines. Free says that any other method for downloading apps would fundamentally rewrite Apple's business model.

Free says that the current business model is built around "prioritizing quality, security, and privacy of these operating systems." Free says that Apple can only live up to those priorities by ensuring that all developers play by the same set of rules for building and operating apps.

Epic's barrister, Neil Young QC, fought back, saying that Apple's actions go against Australian competition law and that the country's parliament intended for the rules to "be enforced in Australia and not be overridden by private agreements between companies like Apple and Epic," according to The Guardian's report.

"The issue is the impact on Australian markets and whether the requirements of our law are satisfied," Young said. "It is a pretty straightforward case, and we would think the evidence is clear this conduct is going to substantially impact these markets in the way we allege.
Justice Nye Perram has reserved his decision on whether the case can go ahead in Australia, but has said he will deliver it "pretty promptly."

In related news this week, thousands of miles away, Apple submitted a list of witnesses who will testify as part of the Apple vs. Epic Games case in California. Amongst the list includes CEO Tim Cook, Apple Fellow Phill Schiller, and senior VP of software Craig Federighi. The trial is set to begin on Monday, May 3.

Article Link: Epic Games' App Store Legal Challenge 'Self-Serving,' Apple Tells Australian Court
 
Last edited:

ruka.snow

macrumors 68000
Jun 6, 2017
1,853
4,999
Scotland
BS, I'd profit massively especially as a small developer if they achieve a global change.
If Epic achieve their goals then small developers lose out. We end up with the same 15/30% with Google Play and Apple AppStore but now a 3rd party store that is markably more expensive pushing in and splitting the customer base. Potentially the end of free apps on the Appstore, and if Apple have to cut their shop offering down to the same level as Epic's then we have to pay our own taxes, our own licensing servers, our own customer service, and countless other things that Google, Microsoft, Apple, and Valve give you that Epic don't.

Even if you now go it alone, it costs way more than the 15% cut or even the 30% cut to host your app on a CDN and then running your own upgrade and licensing server or using FastSpring to handle that for you. The 30% cut stores have always been the cheapest way to sell.
 

Chicane-UK

macrumors 6502
Apr 26, 2008
443
1,082
It's a little unreasonable of Apple though, to denigrate Epic for 'taking advantage' of the Apple platform and ecosystem. Without developers making apps for the platform, then the platform is nothing either. It's a symbiotic relationship.

I'm not saying Apple is wrong and Epic is right (or vice versa) but it just seems a bit obtuse to criticise the very developers they depend on to generate them revenue.
 

svanstrom

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2002
787
1,740
??
Apple should offer to put Epic's games on for 0% commission and then invite a third party developer to intervene complaining that Epic's preferential treatment is anti-competitive :)
More like for the lolz have a group of developers sue Epic for not allowing them to for free set up stores in all of Epics games; and without giving money to Epic sell loot that works in those games, all while forcing Epic to support the functionality of it all.
 

ruka.snow

macrumors 68000
Jun 6, 2017
1,853
4,999
Scotland
It's a little unreasonable of Apple though, to denigrate Epic for 'taking advantage' of the Apple platform and ecosystem. Without developers making apps for the platform, then the platform is nothing either. It's a symbiotic relationship.

I'm not saying Apple is wrong and Epic is right (or vice versa) but it just seems a bit obtuse to criticise the very developers they depend on to generate them revenue.

To Apple's eyes and other developers, what Epic have done is build a business on the AppStore and then broken the contract because they want to force their own store onto iOS after failing to get any traction with it on Android.
 

ekwipt

macrumors 6502a
Jan 14, 2008
978
317


Apple has told an Australian court that Epic Games' legal challenge against the App Store is "self-serving," and that all the software company aims to do is "redefine the terms of access" that it's always been subject to on Apple's platforms.

fortnite-apple-logo-2.jpg

As reported by The Guardian, Apple and Epic Games on Tuesday went head-to-head in a federal court in Sydney, Australia, following Epic's decision to expand its legal battle into the country. Epic's case in Australia follows much of the same argument in the United States, claiming that Apple is a monopoly and that the App Store and in-app purchasing system are unfair.

During the tense court hearing, Apple's lawyer, Stephen Free SC, told the court that the legal battle is between "two Goliaths," referencing that Epic is valued at more than $17 billion. Free went on to say that Epic has obtained a significant amount of information on Apple's App Store and highlighted that some of Epic Games' success can be attributed to Apple's hardware and software.



Epic Games is looking to give iPhone and iPad users more freedom as to where they choose to download their apps by offering an alternative app store. Currently, downloads are limited only to Apple's App Store, in which case apps are subject to Apple's guidelines. Free says that any other method for downloading apps would fundamentally rewrite Apple's business model.

Free says that the current business model is built around "prioritizing quality, security, and privacy of these operating systems." Free says that Apple can only live up to those priorities by ensuring that all developers play by the same set of rules for building and operating apps.

Epic's barrister, Neil Young QC, fought back, saying that Apple's actions go against Australian competition law and that the country's parliament intended for the rules to "be enforced in Australia and not be overridden by private agreements between companies like Apple and Epic," according to The Guardian's report.



This week, thousands of miles away, Apple submitted a list of witnesses who will testify as part of the Apple vs. Epic Games case in California. Amongst the list includes CEO Tim Cook, Apple Fellow Phill Schiller, and senior VP of software Craig Federighi. The trial is set to begin on Monday, May 3.

Article Link: Epic Games' App Store Legal Challenge 'Self-Serving,' Apple Tells Australian Court

As an Australian I’d just like to say go fudge yourself Epic, I uninstalled your POS game (not that I played it anyway)
 

Will Co

macrumors regular
Feb 21, 2021
111
375
United Kingdom
It's a little unreasonable of Apple though, to denigrate Epic for 'taking advantage' of the Apple platform and ecosystem. Without developers making apps for the platform, then the platform is nothing either. It's a symbiotic relationship.

I'm not saying Apple is wrong and Epic is right (or vice versa) but it just seems a bit obtuse to criticise the very developers they depend on to generate them revenue.

Apple's comments are directed to the court about the complainant. I don't think it's reasonable to generalise and say that because Apple are criticising their opponent, a developer, they are by extension criticising all developers. Apple is doing what it needs to do to defend it's position against Epic. Nothing more.
 

gnipgnop

macrumors 68000
Feb 18, 2009
1,829
2,343
All these cases boil down to a single question: can the operating system on a device be considered a market entirely unto itself, or should it be considered part of a larger market that includes other operating systems and other devices? I think the public and the industry itself has accepted the latter definition over the years and Epic is attempting to change it to the former with their lawsuits.
 

shapesinaframe

macrumors regular
Jan 14, 2020
218
264
It's a little unreasonable of Apple though, to denigrate Epic for 'taking advantage' of the Apple platform and ecosystem. Without developers making apps for the platform, then the platform is nothing either. It's a symbiotic relationship.

I'm not saying Apple is wrong and Epic is right (or vice versa) but it just seems a bit obtuse to criticise the very developers they depend on to generate them revenue.
“Taking advantage” just means they’ve done well from using the App Store platform. Apple wants developers to “take advantage” of the App Store. It’s not meant as a provocation.
 

MedRed

macrumors 6502
Jun 9, 2007
308
1,067
Apple have become too arrogant with the App Store. They need to be slapped down. Not saying I agree with Epic, just that someone with money needs to do it.
It's the same as it always was. Only now, others want the benefit of the store, but don't want to pay. They want the rules of engagement to change for their own greed. It's not like their prices would be more reasonable or anything if they won out against Apple. They'd just put more money in their own pockets.
 
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