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Epic Games Asks Judge to Force Apple to Approve Fortnite for US App Store
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They should make an Apple TV+ series from this. Three seasons guaranteed.
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Sure, and the counterparty has the right to not agree to the proposed terms. People and companies are free to walk away from a deal they don't like.
They must follow the laws, but they sure can ban someone for violating rules; within reason. Companies do it all the time; for example if a store bans you for your behavior, you can be arrested for trespassing if you return.
I am very wary of a court forcing a store to carry a particular product. An ironic outcome would be for some to successfully sue EPIC to force them to open their in game stores to outsiders for free.
I'm in favor of sideloading, but I doubt for most developers a third party store will be able to offer the value Apple's does at the 15% they charge.
Even the big ones would find it hard to get the same user base as Apple's. Spotify, for example, could have remained a web app and not pay Apple, but clearly Apple's App Store offers enough value of its 30/15% subscription cut.
Sideloading, IMHO, would solve a lot of Apple's legal challenges since now developer's would not be tied to Apple. The benefit to Apple would be:
- They could now point to third part stores as offering alternatives and thus be free to price and accept apps based on their criteria
- Most third part stores probably cannot survive on Apple's 30/15% fee structure, especially since many large developers probably forgo 3rd party stores altogether, leaving only smaller less lucrative apps to cover teh costs of running a store
- Most users won't bother with 3rd party stores so most developers will stick with Apple even when offered alternatives
- Small developers who go it alone are likely to find Apple's 15% cut pretty close what it costs going it alone without all the administrative paper work and access to a large user base
EPIC and others, want access to the App Store and its user base for free, while guarding their revenue stream from outsiders like Apple does.
I completely support Epic’s persistence on this topic. You cannot have over a billion people globally using your store and then say “well, these are my terms”.
And I laugh at those who compare App Store to their own home. I mean, duh!
And I laugh at those who compare App Store to their own home. I mean, duh!
Do you tell Walmart to just build a store and let them sell bread on their shelves for free?
So should Apple never allow Epic back on the US store? Some of the App Store changes that could very well be approved by the courts are in many ways happening because of Epic. At this point if Epic is complying with the rules it seems petty and personal for Apple to keep them off the store, especially when they’re not doing so in the EU. If anything wouldn’t Apple want the headache of Epic to got away?
Or, they could simply offer to continue with current terms or go with a different fee structure. Nothing says all apps need have the same fee structure, nor do they currently.
Yeah I don’t think any judge is going to force Apple to put Epic apps back on the US store. Still I think Apple should do it and my guess is if Apple doesn’t win it’s appeal it will.
It just still needs to be able to support those that don't pay any fee. Which is part of what the fee structure does. Those that Pay support those that don't pay. It will depend on how its fee is gained to ensure nothing is lost. If you move to many into different fee structures. Does that still support the non-payers well enough to let them not pay? All that has to be worked out. Just like collecting taxes and who to tax.
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Foreign developer accounts can release in the US App Store
The only place such a marketplace can exist is in the EU and that is due to regulation. Apple has been fighting that, too.
From what I remember, Epic downloaded whole new code that was not in the submitted app they sent to apple for review. They then remotely kicked off the code that put in new IAP purchases in place outside of apple processing. There is an inherent dishonesty there that breaks the contract apple made in good faith with Epic when signing the developer agreement.
Furthermore the judge ruled that Epic or anyone else should be allowed to put an html link to an external payment store and let people know that it exists. The judge didnt rule that Epic should have been allowed to put hidden code in an app that gets around an appstore restriction. On just that point alone I dont see how any judge could force Apple to re-enter into an agreement with Epic if Apple deemed them untrustworthy. Every business has a right to determine who it does business with unless it's some utility etc. The judge would look pretty odd forcing a remedy on a case where Epic didnt actually win. It would be like reversing the whole decision.
If Epic want to be in the appstore they should set up an another shell company in the USA and transfer ownership of Fortnite there and enter another dev agreement with Apple. And deal with the tax implications all that brings. I'm sure apple will allow it just as they are allowing the EU version.
If you act petty, expect petty back I suppose.
For the record, Epic has done absolutely nothing to benefit one single consumer on the planet. Their efforts are purely to benefit themselves, no one else, and there is nothing they won't do or say to make it happen, including flat out lying on the world stage, and trying to use unchecked E.U. regulators to influence an American company.
What is it, exactly, you think large companies are doing beyond "benefiting themselves" (and/or their shareholders)?
Of course, which is why I think the major developers will still need to pay to cover most of teh costs, so smaller developrs and free apps can survive.
I’m here because I enjoy the comments but I really don’t care about the Epic-Apple squabble.
I think Apple’s position is if Epic wants back onto the US store, they need to go through the proper procedure and apply for their main developer account to be reinstated. I think if Epic had done this and Apple had said no, they be on firmer ground with the judge.
However, as it stands, Epic tried to circumvent procedure by using a subsidiary that was created for a different purpose. In response, Apple asked Epic to follow the rules, and they have refused.
The judge is simply going to tell Epic to do what they should have done in the first place: ask to be reinstated while agreeing to Apple’s current guidelines. Epic itself, in its May 16 filing, has highlighted the fact that Apple (Tim Cook himself) testified that Apple would be willing to do that (reinstate Epic’s account if Fortnite were in compliance with Apple’s guidelines).
Unlike the general public and some of the chorus here, the judge knows five years ago Epic forced Apple to remove their noncompliant app and disable their main developer account. I think the judge will be very clear that Epic’s special brand of blame-game noncompliance will not be tolerated going forward. If the guidelines change on appeal and Epic can’t abide, then remove their app (or not) and sue. Don’t force Apple to do it for them.
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It is sort of a fun little rotunda of the same back and forth, ad nauseam 🤣
This (taxation) is a much better analogy to use as a basis for constructive arguments about this. The shopping mall and other retail analogies that are constantly brought up in these comment threads don’t work nearly as well.
Apple is the government for the nation of iOS.
This should be added to every OP wrt to Epic....
Sweeney is becoming a cockroach at this point trying to force a place of business to host your wares after they your business in the past
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It is not because Epic wanted better terms, it is HOW they went about it. They violated an agreement they made with Apple by submitting an app that met Apple's guidelines so that it would be approved. After the app was approved and live, they made a back-end change on Epic's side, which redirected the app to their (Epic's) payment source. An action they KNEW would get them banned, but they did it anyway. They were unscrupulous and purposefully violated rules they didn't agree with. There are correct methods to dispute things, and there are incorrect ways. Epic chose the incorrect way to force Apple to the table.
Yes, it does means apple can do whatever they want as long as they aren’t breaking a law. They have no obligation to serve Epic.