Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney Criticizes Apple Over App Store Price Increases

[usagora]

Uh, that can happen. Haha!

Uh no. Since when does a landlord have the ability to dictate the prices the business leasing the space has to charge?
We’re not talking about rent.

uh... happens all the time Tim. What are you talking about?

Landlord raises prices without the renters having any say, literally all the time.

It does? You’re going to let your LANDLORD tell you what to sell your items for? BS 🙄

All this back and forth shows why grammar is important. Remember learning about "ambiguous antecedents"? The quote in question here is poorly written, thus the confusion:

"Imagine if a landlord told their small business tenant they had to increase their prices without any say in the matter or anywhere else to go."

Does the "they" and the "their" in "their prices" refer back to "landlord" or do they refer back to "small business tenant"? The context seems to indicate they're referring to the landlord and "prices" is referring to rent. But the sentence should've clarified this. For example:

"Imagine if a landlord told their small business tenant they (the landlord) had to increase their prices without any say in the matter or anywhere else to go."

Or, of course, they could've simply said "rent" instead of "prices" to clarify it.

 

[Ethosik]

It's not that simple. If I want to sell direct to consumers and not join the App store I have no way of doing so.

Apple claims security, but the bottom line even if customers take the risk, there is no way to side load onto an Apple product

Same applies to consoles. I have wanted to create a PS or Xbox game and distribute it directly. But it’s not possible either.

 

[paulovsouza]

Your landlord doesn’t dictate how much YOU charge your customers, not even the same realm.

It was his example…. You’re right doesn’t make sense. Terrible comparison.

 

[paulovsouza]

All this back and forth shows why grammar is important. Remember learning about "ambiguous antecedents"? The quote in question here is poorly written, thus the confusion:

"Imagine if a landlord told their small business tenant they had to increase their prices without any say in the matter or anywhere else to go."

Does the "they" and the "their" in "their prices" refer back to "landlord" or do they refer back to "small business tenant"? The context seems to indicate they're referring to the landlord and "prices" is referring to rent. But the sentence should've clarified this. For example:

"Imagine if a landlord told their small business tenant they (the landlord) had to increase their prices without any say in the matter or anywhere else to go."

Or, of course, they could've simply said "rent" instead of "prices" to clarify it.

If an analogy needs all this explanation, it’s obviously a poor example. Doesn’t matter who’s the landlord, who’s the renter.

Apple made the platform, so it gets to dictate whatever they wish. Epic is welcomed to make their own platform, and do as they wish. No one is stopping them from that.

 

[usagora]

If an analogy needs all this explanation, it’s obviously a poor example.

The best analogy in the world could be made confusing by poor grammar. It may be a bad analogy, but not because of the grammatical issue I mentioned. That's a separate topic.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

Apple made the platform, so it gets to dictate whatever they wish. Epic is welcomed to make their own platform, and do as they wish. No one is stopping them from that.

It is as simple as this, yes. Those trying to argue this will try and win the gold medal in mental gymnastics to attempt to prove some point but it is a waste of their energy. They'll also try and pivot to critiquing spelling and grammar to try and avoid admitting they have no good argument. It is how it goes every single time.

 

[ilikewhey]

You own the physical device, not the OS. Apple owns iOS. You're only licensed to use iOS (or iPadOS) subject to the licensing agreement. Since software installation is something that happens on iOS, Apple gets to regulate that. You can do whatever you want with your physical device.

for now, with govt around the world regulating platforms like the app store, apple will budge with their 30%.

 

[ilikewhey]

Not happening.

it could be happening, apple already lost out on the usbc battle.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

Imagine spending so much time and energy frequenting a forum designed for enthusiasts of a company that you vehemently dislike. It'd be like standing inside McDonalds all day every day telling them how much they suck and how much better Burger King is. Weird behavior.

 

[usagora]

for now, with govt around the world regulating platforms like the app store, apple will budge with their 30%.

Which is something governments have no business doing. But not sure what the percentage of the App Store commission has to do with the issue of side-loading (which is what the person I responded to was talking about). They're two separate topics.

But since you brought up the commission--the proper way for the market to handle that is not to demand the government become a nanny-state. The proper way is for whiny developers to put their money where their mouth is and leave the App Store and Apple would definitely reconsider their commission if enough did that (just like any other company with an app store would). But these developers won't because it's a cash cow for them. They're just hungry for more profits. Nothing wrong with that, but you don't achieve that by suing and demanding government interference. You either find greener pastures or develop your own hardware and software platform. The latter is obviously easier said than done, but no one said success was easy or will happen overnight for an entrepreneur.

As it is, these developers are simply jealous of Apple's success and want some of it handed to them on a silver platter.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Android has sideloading... hardly anyone uses it.

iOS doesn't have sideloading... "OMG WE NEED IT NOW!!!!! FREEEEEEEDOM!!!"

🤣

 

[ProfessionalFan]

Android has sideloading... hardly anyone uses it.

iOS doesn't have sideloading... "OMG WE NEED IT NOW!!!!! FREEEEEEEDOM!!!"

🤣

Just Android owners wanting iOS to have crap apps filling it up so the iPhone can look a little worse. All these side loaded apps on Android are such garbage.

 

[paulovsouza]

It is as simple as this, yes. Those trying to argue this will try and win the gold medal in mental gymnastics to attempt to prove some point but it is a waste of their energy. They'll also try and pivot to critiquing spelling and grammar to try and avoid admitting they have no good argument. It is how it goes every single time.

But yet I’m not hearing a convincing counter. Just lots of smug, self praising, with no substance. Sort of like Epic, which would explain a lot.

 

[paulovsouza]

The best analogy in the world could be made confusing by poor grammar. It may be a bad analogy, but not because of the grammatical issue I mentioned. That's a separate topic.

So an analogy could be made bad with poor grammar? Or it’s bad analogy, despite the poor grammar? Either way you agree.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

I’m not hearing a convincing counter.

Because that's impossible. There is no good argument to fight it.

 

[usagora]

So an analogy could be made bad with poor grammar? Or it’s bad analogy, despite the poor grammar? Either way you agree.

I'm disagreeing with how you arrived at your conclusion 😉 You were indicating that because people were confused about the analogy, that it must not be a good one, but that doesn't necessarily follow. In this case, the only reason it was confusing was because it was poorly written.

 

[jlc1978]

First sentence is correct, but I don't know what you mean when you say Apple "marks it up". Apple charges the price that the developers set.

The developer decides what they would like to get for their app, based on desired return and their perception of what they can charge. If they want $10, they chose the price tier that nets them $10; so they chose $12.99 to include Apple's markup. They may get less based on taxes where their app sells.

Apple isn't taking 30% from a developer (or 15%), they are providing the developer pricing tiers that includes tehir markup and lets the developer decide what their price will be for the app.

Apple is just adjusting international prices based on currency fluctuations, so developer don't get significantly less money from international sales.

Correct.

 

[paulovsouza]

I'm disagreeing with how you arrived at your conclusion 😉 You were indicating that because people were confused about the analogy, that it must not be a good one, but that doesn't necessarily follow. In this case, the only reason it was confusing was because it was poorly written.

No matter how it was written, comparing an App Store to a housing market allows it to so many interpretations. Why not buy your own land, build your own building (develop their own). Why not get a roommate (put the cost onto users). No matter how it’s worded, it’s using a bias to compare Apple to “bad landlords” to small business, when Epic is a huge business that does the same thing. Making them bad landlord, pointing the finger when they’re doing the same. You see how this can keep going.

 

[usagora]

No matter how it was written, comparing an App Store to a housing market allows it to so many interpretations. Why not buy your own land, build your own building (develop their own). Why not get a roommate (put the cost onto users). No matter how it’s worded, it’s using a bias to compare Apple to “bad landlords” to small business, when Epic is a huge business that does the same thing. Making them bad landlord, pointing the finger when they’re doing the same. You see how this can keep going.

In all the posts I quoted, the confusion (the two opposing interpretations) was solely grammatical, thus why I made the point I did.

 

[jdsingle]

Because its admission that apple strong arms all developers and people CANT accept apple does that so they refuse to accept anything thats good.

The reality is a LOT of places ARE NOT raising prices to compensate for a lower Euro.

I subscribe for a service that is 20 Euro.. used to cost me 28 or more USD now its around 22 and less per USD.. No price changes at all....

**** wish I could buy fk tons of Euro on a Euro only card or something now for the future lol....

Wait what? Is this a serious post? You do understand how arbitrage works, right? If a company has a functional currency of USD, and they do business in another currency, they should absolutely be raising their foreign prices to account for exchange rates. Even companies in Europe are raising prices, because, you know, this thing called inflation. Not even factoring in exchange rate risk. You can buy Euros at a currency exchange. You can have a global account at a bank to purchase the currency as well.

 

[Nicholas Head]

Everytime Tim speaks, just remind yourself that Epic Games Store has no problem paying money to developers to stay exclusive to their store. Sounds really fair and competitive, Tim!

 

[ComRadMac]

Aren't android apps sold on an alternative app store?

 

[junior]

It's called inflation mr Sweeney Todd. Since 2007 99 cents is now worth more than $1.40. So with these new prices apps are actually cheaper now than they were in 2007 when the iPhone launched. The App Store actually launched 2008, so inflation since then means 99 cents is now worth $1.36. Raising the prices helps developers more than Apple, because developers get 70% cut of their app sales, Apple only gets 30. Of course if you can't or refuse to sell your app on the App Store then you get 0% and Apple gets 0%, so no one wins there.

So what about countries with no inflation? We're talking about prices outside the US here.
But that's off topic anyway, as it's about the exchange rate.

 

[laptech]

You own the physical device, not the OS. Apple owns iOS. You're only licensed to use iOS (or iPadOS) subject to the licensing agreement. Since software installation is something that happens on iOS, Apple gets to regulate that. You can do whatever you want with your physical device.

That is not technically true because if you owned the physical device then you would be allowed to do with it what you will. The fact is you cannot because Apple does not allow other OS from being installed on an iphone or ipad. If you actually owned the physical device then you should be allowed to install an OS from Microsoft, Blackberry, Google, Linux (if they made an OS that would work on an iphone or ipad). The fact of the matter is you cannot because Apple controls what can and cannot be installed on the iphone or ipad. You may think you own the physical device but you do not because your fooled into thinking you do.

 

[quarkysg]

So what about countries with no inflation? We're talking about prices outside the US here.
But that's off topic anyway, as it's about the exchange rate.

Inflation happens where I stays, but iPhone prices did not change. That is likely due to the local currency vs the USD that remains relatively stable.