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Perhaps you misunderstand. The legislators in the EU are introducing laws that will force Apple to open up where and how software can run on their iPhones. You seem to be getting confused with OS software and App software, which is surprising. I think the EU sees an iPhone as a computer. You are not forced to use the App Store for your Mac, are you? No. So why should a phone be different? No idea if the legislators in the US will feel the same - don't really care.
Why shouldn’t the phone be different? What’s wrong with letting Apple make the product they want to make? If consumers and developers don’t like it, they don’t need to buy or develop for it.

I don’t understand this fervour for taking non-essential products and forcing them to operate a certain way. This isn’t like food standards, or water supplies, or electricity supplies, or banks, or drug manufacturers, all of which are essential, we are talking about a non-essential product or service.

I suspect these regulations will fail to have the desired effect and will in turn be repealed, or regulators will double-down to make things even worse for us consumers.
 
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So why should a phone be different
Off the top of my head, because people tend to download a lot more apps onto their smartphones than they do their PCs (where many tasks are carried out over the browser instead), and phones tend to be host to way more personal information, so one can argue that it ought to be subject to tighter controls.

The second reason is that the open nature of the internet has not been without its share of problems (eg: viruses and malware), so I am not actually against the idea of things being done differently.

The question shouldn't be "PCs have always been this way, so nothing should change and the iPhone should follow". The question ought to be "Yes, PCs have been this way for decades, but what's so good about the old ways that justify things not changing and making the iPhone to be more like it, rather than the other way around?"

For instance, when you have a few hundred apps on your phone, I imagine it is still easier to manage all of them within a centralised App Store where you can update them all at one shot. If I have a new phone, it's a simple matter to go into the App Store, check out my list of purchased apps and tap on the ones I wish to download and reinstall.

Can you imagine buying a new phone, then having to visit a hundred different websites to download the apps you need again? Imagine if they requested for a receipt or key that you no longer had available (which was precisely what had happened when I upgraded my Macbook and wanted to download Airbuddy again and was like, whoops, where's my registry key?).

There is also the added security to be had from using iTunes billing over keying in your credit card information into multiple different websites (I wonder how Amazon is able to get away with not needing an OTP on their website while other online shopping websites like Shopee do). I just wish more websites and businesses would support Apple Pay in the very least. It would save me the hassle of needing to create a new account with them just for a single transaction.

It would also be nice to be able to manage all my subscriptions from within one app. Recently, I had to cancel my old credit card and apply for a new one, which amongst other things, meant having to visit a dozen different websites in order to update my payment details (luckily, I track them all within an app). For the ones which I am subscribed in-app, it's simply a matter of updating Apple Pay and letting Apple handle the rest. Cancelling my subscriptions would also be as simple as tapping a button in the App Store app. No need to visit their website ever (and some don't really make easy for you).

I think Apple has done a lot of work to make managing all these drudgery as seamless and convenient as possible, but I guess a lot of it wouldn't work with the decentralised nature of the internet. And this is possible only because we as consumers give Apple a lot of influence over developers and force them to capitulate to demands which are often against their own self-interests (even if they are to our advantage).

I guess this is why I am actually not against the idea of a walled garden. Because in this new world order, we have the power, not developers.
 
And the iPhones are about to be sold that way in the EU. What's your point?
Not through the manufacturers or consumer choice. My point is that instead of letting the market decide what it wants, regulators are enforcing a particular way of operating to tip the balance of favour towards developers, and away from consumers and Apple.
 
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Strange argument.
The argument is that it’s up to the consumer to make an informed decision about what to purchase. We don’t need nanny state to make those decisions for us, and there’ll be significant pushback when they do to our detriment.
 
Not through the manufacturers or consumer choice. My point is that instead of letting the market decide what it wants, regulators are enforcing a particular way of operating to tip the balance of favour towards developers, and away from consumers and Apple.
Wrong. These legislators are elected, by the people. They are the chosen voice of the people. What they are seeing are monopolised market, that's poor value for consumers and developers. So action was taken after fair warning.

The balance should NEVER be in favour of anti-competitive, anti-consumer behaviour - that you seem to be a fan of, for whatever reason?! Monopolise like this stifle competition and value for consumers. And the people in the EU have, through their elected representatives to call an end to it. And rightly so.
 
Wrong. These legislators are elected, by the people. They are the chosen voice of the people. What they are seeing are monopolised market, that's poor value for consumers and developers. So action was taken after fair warning.

The balance should NEVER be in favour of anti-competitive, anti-consumer behaviour - that you seem to be a fan of, for whatever reason?! Monopolise like this stifle competition and value for consumers. And the people in the EU have, through their elected representatives to call an end to it. And rightly so.
I didn’t elect these people yet their actions will impact me and my family directly.

The balance should be in consumers favour, not in developers favour.
 
Ease of use for users, less malware, better development experience, etc...
How can it be a better development experience if there is no incentive because the market is closed? Open the market - you open coopetition. Competition leads to better products. That's the basis for a free market economy, like the one you live in.
 
How can it be a better development experience if there is no incentive because the market is closed? Open the market - you open coopetition. Competition leads to better products. That's the basis for a free market economy, like the one you live in.
Only particularly true. Look at the cesspool that is google, Facebook, Twitter and tiktok as evidence of what a free market gets you.

Mostly lowest-common denominator crap.

Some of us demand higher standards than that.
 
Wrong. These legislators are elected, by the people. They are the chosen voice of the people.
Which legislators? Certainly not the EU commission that you were talking about.

What they are seeing are monopolised market, that's poor value for consumers and developers. So action was taken after fair warning.
Not in any way. Maybe an effective duopoly, but only because Google has entered in anticompetitive agreements with its horizontal competitors.

The balance should NEVER be in favour of anti-competitive, anti-consumer behaviour - that you seem to be a fan of, for whatever reason?! Monopolise like this stifle competition and value for consumers. And the people in the EU have, through their elected representatives to call an end to it. And rightly so.
There is nothing anticompetive or anticonsumer about Apple's model. In fact, Apple's model is decidedly pro-consumer with low prices, high quality apps, lots of competition, and a wide variety.
 
Idk man. Things seem to be going pretty well for them in the EU. They’re getting sideloading this year.

I’d imagine that once people worldwide see what EU customers can do with their iPhones, there will be more demand for sideloading elsewhere. I’d be surprised if the US doesn’t have sideloading by iOS 19.
Forget alternate app stores for the moment: why, 8 years after the initial release, am I still being prevented from installing custom watch faces on Apple Watch? Those “custom watch face” apps don’t count as they are a glorified app that has to stay active to operate as intended
Because of MySpace? This is just a theory, but if I drive a Corvette with a Confederate Flag on it, am I by implication placing an implicit connection between Chevrolet and "Slave culture/white supremacy/"Southern Heritage?"

Of course, if it bothered you enough, you could write your own custom watch face app and give it away for free on the app store, helping not just your own desires, but all those like-minded. The issue is that if a developer puts that kind of effort into making an app, they prefer some compensation and the industry headed to a subscription model long ago with Adobe and Microsoft Office leading the game.
 
I'm really looking forward to Tim Sweeney's inevitable 50-tweet long rant essay to make himself feel better, before he finds new and exciting ways to burn his Fortnite profits on losing legal battles. :p

(imagine buying Fortnite skins and knowing that all that money is going towards Epic's legal fees)
My favorite part is that to start this legal drama, is how they added a pricing option that was obviously biased toward Epic: Get 1000 V bucks for 9.99 (including Apple's 30% cut) or buy directly from them (they save 30%) for a 20% discount. Way to pass on the savings!
 
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My favorite part is that to start this legal drama, is how they added a pricing option that was obviously biased toward Epic: Get 1000 V bucks for 9.99 (including Apple's 30% cut) or buy directly from them (they save 30%) for a 20% discount. Way to pass on the savings!

It's 15% after the first year.

Also Apple's completely unreasonable policy that did not allow to promote alternate payments outside the app has been shut down by the court.
 
Don't forget a monopolised market, that's poor value for consumers and developers.
Only big developers with large infrastructures benefit from a decentralized service. Small developers benefit immensely from the current climate which puts their profit margins ahead of the big boys allowing for growth out of the door. Something thats unheard of in any retail market.
It's 15% after the first year.

Also Apple's completely unreasonable policy that did not allow to promote alternate payments outside the app has been shut down by the court.
Buying Vbucks would be individual payments though, not subscriptions - so it'd still be 30% as far as I understand (correct me if I'm wrong).
 
Don't forget a monopolised market, that's poor value for consumers and developers.
android is an alternative

Strange argument.
valid argument you mean.

How can it be a better development experience if there is no incentive because the market is closed? Open the market - you open coopetition. Competition leads to better products. That's the basis for a free market economy, like the one you live in.

iOS and Android are competitors.


Ask why developers prefer to develop for iOS even though iOS only has ~25% marketshare while Android has ~75%.

People often point to Android for being open as it has competition of app stores within the platform, yet the development experience for Android is still trash compared to iOS.
 
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Strange argument.
Whats strange? Do you buy an Asus laptop and expect it to run MacOS?

Millions of people bought iOS devices in full knowledge of the limitations and lock-in to the Apple ecosystem.

*sure there are workarounds, just like an iPhone
 
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It's 15% after the first year.

Also Apple's completely unreasonable policy that did not allow to promote alternate payments outside the app has been shut down by the court.

This applies only to subscriptions or developers earning under 1 million a year. Neither of which applies to Epic.
 
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Whats strange? Do you buy an Asus laptop and expect it to run MacOS?

Millions of people bought iOS devices in full knowledge of the limitations and lock-in to the Apple ecosystem.

*sure there are workarounds, just like an iPhone
I’d say you might be a little strange TBH.

Huge corporations don’t exist for your benefit chummy - which is exactly why the EU legislation is about to kick in.

The eco-system is a closed monopoly and at odds with a market economy. You know, like the one you live in.

Your argument is one in defence of the kind of country I’m sure you wouldn’t like to live in.

Or maybe you would? Then at least you’d be away from the rest of us.
 
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And the iPhones are about to be sold that way in the EU. What's your point?
we're arguing why EU is wrong for forcing Apple to do this.

using "iPhones being sold in EU allowing sideloading" as an argument for why EU should be allowed to do this doesn't make sense
 
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I’d say you might be a little strange TBH.

Huge corporations don’t exist for your benefit chummy - which is exactly why the EU legislation is about to kick in.

The eco-system is a closed monopoly and at odds with a market economy. You know, like the one you live in.

Sounds like you don't like that ecosystem and should not move in. Sounds like you should do research beforehand and live in the Android ecosystem.

I did my research and I enjoy 1 app store for everything I need on my phone. So I moved into iOS.
 
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