I agree. And I would very much love to see the outcome of Apple deciding to not sell in the EU because they are forced to use USB-C and allow side loading. Nobody voted for this, it is being introduced by a supranational organisation that is not really accountable to anyone. The people are asleep, maybe they will wake up when they find they can no longer buy an iPhone.
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Epic Games Loses Again in Battle With Apple Over App Store Rules
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Ah yes - warranty, reclamation, ability to choose payment methods and even run the software of one's own choosing, standardized charging cable - hell, even the privacy/cookie laws are all a part of the big scheme to advance European business in a sneaky way, as to outcompete fair and free and absolutely competitive american businesses. Because of all countries - USA never imposed tariffs on anyone, never blanket-banned entire companies from their markets under bogus political reasoning and never forced sanctions left right and center to advance its exports. No sir!The DMA is for the benefit of businesses, not consumers. It’s basically a thinly-veiled form of protectionism (notice how the legislation all impact US companies?). The EU knows they can’t compete in this area, so they enact this sort of laws so their own homegrown industries at least have a fighting chance.
I understand why the EU is doing all this, and I still think it’s stupid.
Maybe I should start calling it the Spotify Boost Act instead.
Google?
I swear, talking to some people is like talking to people from a parallel reality... where water flows upstream, fish fly, monopolies equal freedom of consumer choice and democracy is what a PAC and a campaign donor chooses.
Sure. The hardware belongs to you. The operating system and software do not. When are you people going to understand this?
Try taking out all of Apple’s intellectual property from your iPhone — OS, firmware, any other code in any of the chips — and sure, the rest is yours to do whatever you want with. Knock yourself out. But you don’t own iOS or the firmware on the rom chips or any of the other code that runs it, so you can NOT do whatever you want with that.
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The courts were pretty clear on this. If the rules foreclosing competition are consistent, then there is no harm, because customers know what they are getting into. In the case of the iPhone, this means that Apple can control the market for iPhone apps, because customers already know that Apple controls the App market; if they don’t like it they can buy a different phone. This is why Apple spent time in the trial establishing that its control of the App Store was in fact a selling point of the iPhone, and a reason why customers chose to enter iOS’s more restrictive ecosystem. And the judge has actually agreed with Apple in that the iOS App Store has its merits for consumers (which brings me back to my earlier point about how US antitrust law has to first establish harm to consumers).
If you want things to change in the US, then the courts will have to enact new laws, because it's pretty clear under existing US legislation at least that Apple was always going to win this lawsuit.
How is it benefiting consumers when apps installed outside the App Store don't have to incorporate ATT, support sign-in-with-Apple, and subscriptions can't be tracked / managed via the App Store? From a consumer standpoint, it seems like I am simply trading one set of compromises for another.
Because nothing says that you are on the side of rationality and logic more than calling people you disagree with names and dismissing them as irrational stereotypes.
Unless they live up to the stereotypes which they absolutely, definitively, positively do.
I don't do much debates on forums and what not, those days are gone. But I have to admit the level of toxic fanboyism here om MR is trough the roof. As well as this agressive "economic libertarianism" if one can call it that, like when literally Apple screws over its customer base by overpricing, repair restrictions, draconian warranty and user righs etc... a swarm descends. Literal swarm of smirky, schadenfreude spewing aggressive individuals who literally burst out in joy cheer on every single such stunt that Apple pulls off. Everyone affected by it: brushed off as just being "against innovation" or outright told the Apple fanboy lingo version of "f*** off" - the "Buy an android then!".
And I am the meanie for calling them out, right? Boo hoo.
I completely understand where you're coming from. If someone doesn't share your belief or accept the way you frame an argument, the logical thing to do is call them names and dismiss them as irrational. You certainly wouldn't come on a discussion forum to discuss the topic of the thread.
You say that like you had no choice about which phone to get. It's ridiculous. When you bought your iPhone you knew iPhones come with a walled garden -- a feature that is for many users the primary reason they choose iPhone. The walled garden is a fundamental feature of iPhones.
If you don't like that fundamental feature of iPhones then for the love of Steve why do you buy an iPhone?!?!
I've asked this question countless times and no one has ever given a meaningful answer. Please explain this.
It's like buying a Corolla and then complaining it doesn't have a BMW engine in it, and filing lawsuits to try to make Toyota put BMW engines in Corollas. If you want a BMW engine, buy a BMW.
I bought an Apple Watch. Does this mean I should be able to install Android Wear OS on it? No.
I bought a PS5. Does this mean I should be able to install Xbox's Halo on it? No.
I bought an Oculus Quest. Does this mean I should be able to install Steam VR on it? No.
I bought a Tesla. Does this mean I should be able to install CarPlay on it? No.
I bought a smart TV. Does this mean I should be able to install Windows on it? No.
You buy hardware knowing full well (or at least should have known) the limitations of the software.
I bought a Tesla knowing I don't have a choice to download car apps from. That's a me problem, not Tesla's problem. Tesla has no obligation to open up their cars. Same with Apple. If you needed a choice of where to download apps from, you shouldn't have bought an iPhone. Do your research.
By being open, you'll always be a step less safe than closed. This is a pure fact. And some people need the benefits of a closed garden such as 70 year olds. Why are you denying 70 year olds a safe closed garden?
iOS App Store makes more revenue for developers than Google Play Store even though Android has more than double global marketshare.
Android's sideloading option never made sense financially for big companies since the profit of extra 30% does not outweigh the risk of losing many Android customers.
Glad you brought up PC! PC has Steam/Blizzard/Origin/Uplay/Gog and more running in the background sucking up precious CPU/ram to run background tasks since each client has their own method of dealing with files and updates. Imagine that on an iPhone. Not feasible.
Everyone who currently still plays candy crush (still a popular game) would be asked to download Blizzard's Battle net store to continue playing. Everyone who uses Office will be asked to download the Microsoft store. And so on. Hundreds of millions of customers are going to suffer just because you wanted to sideload an emulator to experience nostalgia for a few hours?
No thanks, I'll pass.
There you go. You just proved why developers aren't gonna abandon the App Store once sideloading goes live in iOS 17.
iOS and Android handles RAM differently from desktops. Apps not active are put in essentially a suspended state. The same is with macOS too.
Bro what? Candy Crush on desktop does not ask you to install Bnet. Neither does Call of Duty. They're not gonna make you install a separate launcher on phones as most won't do that. Epic Games learned that the hard way.
Office is in the Mac App Store despite it being available to download from Microsoft directly.
Again: Sideloading is optional
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Uh no. I think you need to re-read what I said.
High chance of losing customers during migration step of Android equates to an overall less net profit because Play Store makes very little money.
On iOS App Store however, losing customers during migration step could still result in overall higher net profit from the extra 30%.
I'm an iOS developer and I'm fully aware of how this works.
Explain how a third party store will update apps in the background? Or run their own push notification service since Apple will likely not let third party developers who don't want to go through Apple push notifications through Apple's servers. Or backup the user app data.
You have no idea how much candy crush makes on iOS and getting an extra 30% is well worth the risk of losing users during the migration process.
Because it was available directly initially. Expanding to MAS only expanded the pie and has zero risk. iOS however started off with the App Store and migrating iOS paid users to gain the extra 30% is financially feasible.
Not when you're forced to migrate.
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Well, it’s not the courts that enact these laws, are they? But otherwise, absolutely. The EU realised this earlier and accordingly passed new specific legislation.
It isn’t benefitting them.
How is it benefitting to consumers though when Apple creates a single point of failure, charge supercompetitive competition rates and prohibits useful app functionality (even when that does not pose a security concern) or makes it unfeasible for developers to implement it?
You say that as if that’s a decision I‘d be making everyday.
That‘s the equivalent of saying „get divorced, if you don’t like it“ to every single instance someone tells you of his small marital problems.
And there is a lack of mobile operating systems to choose from - it’s not as people had many reasonable choices to choose from.
Also, many app developers don‘t have that choice. You aren’t going to have a competitive dating app without supporting both Android and iOS.
No problem:
I‘ve been a Mac user before that - and the iPhone had much better integration with my Mac computer than Android or Windows Phone.
My friends and family are iPhone users, too - so I and they are benefitting from our own network effects.
Last but not least, I trust Apple (that’s making money from hardware sales) more with my data than Google (that’s making money from data).
I bought my iPhone despite its walked garden - because of a lack of choice among mobile operating systems
…unless the law forces them.
By mandating standardised charging stations and connectors, for example.
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So you agree that it is problematic if „everyone“ has to use one corporation‘s service and has buy from them only?
You're using the argument "unless the law force them" in a discussion on why the law shouldn't be forcing them...
Not going to happen in USA. Superchargers are the #1 charging network with 99% uptime in USA and is being opened to every EV car for them to use.
Not sure what your point is.
No. I have a problem with the government changing the rules that have ramifications on the product I already bought and am currently using. I bought the iPhone knowing full well that I'm dealing with Apple and ONLY Apple with respect to apps.
If Apple voluntarily opened up the platform without government pressure and caused me to install 10 app stores for the apps I currently use, my problem wouldn't be with the government but rather with Apple and I'd simply vote with my wallet to show my dissatisfaction of Apple.
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That extra 30% is meaningless if the customerbase is not installing the .ipa and is still using the App Store, which they most likely will.
Case in point: The Epic Game Store. The Cursed Fortnite Launcher has a much more generous cut for developers than Steam does, but that generous cut is not being taken full advantage of as EGS sees a lot less traffic than Steam does. Borderlands 3 for example, while it did well on the Epic Game Store sales wise, after it's exclusivity expired and the game arrived on Steam, the Steam version outsold the EGS version in a short time period. As revealed in court discovery for Apple vs Epic, the EGS is actually losing Epic Games over half a billion each year. It's not making the money they hoped as games just aren't selling there. They had to pretty much stop the exclusivity deals because it was costing them so much for no benefits as most just waited for the exclusivity to expire and the game to come to the much better platform.
The same is gonna be true for the iOS App Store since the majority of people are already set up for it, so alternative app stores and sideloading is not gonna be the threat to your precious app store you think it is.
Just like any other app store, in the background. It's not rocket science lmao.
They'll probably just use their own or a third party service, just like they already do on macOS and Android.
Again, they'll probably just use their own solution. You're overthinking it.
Again: Established userbase. A lot of Candy Crush players are signed in via Apple IDs and have their progress tied to their Apple accounts. They'd have more to lose abandoning the app store than they do to gain.
Also you keep talking about this "migration process" since you seem to think once iOS 17 comes out that everyone overnight is gonna leave the App Store and just install .ipas, which they're not.
iOS didn't have an App Store when it launched as iPhone OS in 2007. The App Store wasn't a thing until a year later. Back then Apple wanted everyone to just make web apps.
And again, you're already proving that most devs (if any) won't leave the App Store once sideloading becomes available.
Again, you keep assuming everyone is gonna leave once iOS 17 comes out.
And even if you had to go with sideloading, that would mean there was a better option than the Apple App Store that warranted doing so, and that's Apple's fault for not providing a good enough service than competitors.
I had to laugh at the pejorative and condescending your precious App Store. If it was actually “my precious App Store” I would be very, very happy.
Well hey apparently the App Store is precious to that "iOS Developer." Can't let Tim Cook frown now can we?
No one ever been able to answer this because they cannot actually answer it. When you purchase an iPhone (or any purchase) you look at what it is and its features then decide if it meets your needs.
If it doesn't then you don't buy it. Or at least that is what sensible people do.
Nobody forces these people to buy iPhones, they choose to. Of course could be that people are just too stupid to do research before purchasing and don't know what they are buying and then unwilling to admit it.
I buy iPhones precisely because the walled garden and it meets all of MY needs and wants.
Didn't you ever purchase a thing of which you disliked at least one fundamental feature? You're not seriously telling us you liked all of the fundamental features (no exception) of all of the products you ever bought, are you!?
If you're a political voter, did you always, ever, agree with everything ("fundamental") your chosen politician, presidential candidate or party ever campaigned for?
I just did answer it.
Phones are bought for more than just raw comparison of features. Most marketing managers would probably out of jobs, if it was as easy as just publishing the features of their products.
I buy iPhones because I like the integration with my Mac and commonalities in operat and user interface.
Despite disliking the walled garden.
👉 There, I answered the question again that "one (has) ever been able to answer" as you claim.
Did I know about the walled garden nature of it before purchase? Of course I did!
Do I like it? No, I didn't and don't like it!
Why didn't I purchase an Android phone? See above, there's other things I like more about iOS than Android!
And it's not as if there's many other (relevant) mobile OS to choose from as other alternatives!
👉 It's really not that ****ing hard to comprehend why people buy iPhones - and still complain about some of the things they don't like about them (even if you don't agree that the government should bring forward changes about it).
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Lol. He’s incredibly successful. Has one of the best rendering engines on the market. Led massive innovation, so much so that apple has had him on their stage.
Unreal 5.2 is wayyy ahead of anything else out there. Apple needs to resolve this with epic if they want their headset to have more content.
Don’t forget epic can do this bc they can afford to lose the iPhone platform. Apple needs as many game developers as they can for their next rumored platform.
Also he’s actually been pushing back against app stores on pc and other platforms. They were battling steam etc. this is a consistent strategy losing or not it got a lot more ppl talking about it.
We can disagree with a man and be respectful.